Waybound Focus Nodes and Their Implications On Focus Farming (Over 140 MORE Days)

[Nirrel]

Just now, kuciol said:

 

First of all there is nothing childish in playing game how you like it but its when you want something you are no supposed to get. The give you a candy but you also want the cake and cry about it.

 

Back to topic. Maybe instead making every single thing easier in this game like most on this forum you should just give alternative ways of getting the focus? Like lets say headshot counter giving you something like stealth multiplayer or operator kills giving you more focus. Something that will give you same results not better but in diffetent way. Than maybe slap some qol changes like orbs spawning closer to you so you wont have to run around whole map to get them. How about that?

If it's in the game, you are supposed to have it. Period. To use your analogy, they gave us the cake but you can eat one candy just every now and than.

The question is how accessible it is for the player that cake and right now it is a ludicrous grind for most of the players of the game. If you don't care that's fine. That doesn't make the system right and doesn't make somebody childish to pointing it out.

[Demaneth]

35 minutes ago, kuciol said:

 

First of all there is nothing childish in playing game how you like it but its when you want something you are no supposed to get. The give you a candy but you also want the cake and cry about it.

 

Back to topic. Maybe instead making every single thing easier in this game like most on this forum you should just give alternative ways of getting the focus? Like lets say headshot counter giving you something like stealth multiplayer or operator kills giving you more focus. Something that will give you same results not better but in diffetent way. Than maybe slap some qol changes like orbs spawning closer to you so you wont have to run around whole map to get them. How about that?

Ok XD... Nothing childish on playing the game how you like, the childish thing is tell us how to play the game. Did you understand it now¿? Is up to us choose what we want and what not. And what is that... "no supposed to get"¿? so if the game is grindy but I want to play other games, of go out... the game has to be that long, decades to grind¿? Ok, then pls tell to DE that we dont need more content... Stop. We have everything we want with focus trees XD.

PS: You remind me that moments when you enter a new MMO with a lot of content and grind, then think... woaaa lvl 90 and epic gear, I will never have that lvl and that gear. Im stuck here. Play 2h and leave the game... 3 months later read a web videogame article saying that game was closed because the low population or become f2p because no one play it. I know and tested practically 90% of the warframe content and it feels overwhelming when you think how a newbie can even think play the game and grind all the gear they want. lvl gear, add formas, relvl the grear grind for warframes and pets and add formas (farm the formas XD), test archwings, play the quests, unlock the operator, want to max out a school and still think "woa, but this will take a lot of time and I still want octavia, harrow, ivara... meh I quit".

Grind things like this is why warframe is 9th (sometimes less) on the top 10 in steam. Now is on 4th place because of the update. But it will lose players when they see the grind and the other issues the update has.

Edited October 20, 2017 by DarkDemonXR69

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2017. 10. 17. at 8:22 AM, Vladimir said:

An operator is unique he or she should have mastery in about one school. Full mastery in all school will defeat the unique qualities of YOUR operator making him or symmetrical to all the other operators. In other words work together for future content based off of your school.

They were unique. Now? Not soo much, the focus update has removed almost all unique focus effects and left us with almost the same for everyone.

[Marvelous_A]

It means it takes over 140 to make operaters remotely viable for actual combat

[Sunder]

Said it many times in many other places, I'll say it again

Remove Convergence orbs - Make focus a "Press 6 to activate" ability

• Works the same
• Only available for a limited time as is now
• Gives us a bit more control over when to activate it (Specially useful in large tiles or the Plains)

Remove the "Pool" entirely. It serves no other purpose than to just be a focus dump.

Cut the costs. By half.

With no pool and all tree's costing half of what they do now? I think that'd be able to managed by a good portion of the community. Those who want to be casual about it can still get a tree done in a timely manner, those who wish to grind out all the trees will still take quite some time to do-so. Of course this is assuming a player is going about focus farming in an effective way. People who just put the lens on and go about their missions? Might not see as much of a gain. But hey, that's what "Press 6 to focus" is for. More accessible to all

 

[kuciol]

5 hours ago, DarkDemonXR69 said:

Ok XD... Nothing childish on playing the game how you like, the childish thing is tell us how to play the game. Did you understand it now¿? Is up to us choose what we want and what not. And what is that... "no supposed to get"¿? so if the game is grindy but I want to play other games, of go out... the game has to be that long, decades to grind¿? Ok, then pls tell to DE that we dont need more content... Stop. We have everything we want with focus trees XD.

PS: You remind me that moments when you enter a new MMO with a lot of content and grind, then think... woaaa lvl 90 and epic gear, I will never have that lvl and that gear. Im stuck here. Play 2h and leave the game... 3 months later read a web videogame article saying that game was closed because the low population or become f2p because no one play it. I know and tested practically 90% of the warframe content and it feels overwhelming when you think how a newbie can even think play the game and grind all the gear they want. lvl gear, add formas, relvl the grear grind for warframes and pets and add formas (farm the formas XD), test archwings, play the quests, unlock the operator, want to max out a school and still think "woa, but this will take a lot of time and I still want octavia, harrow, ivara... meh I quit".

Grind things like this is why warframe is 9th (sometimes less) on the top 10 in steam. Now is on 4th place because of the update. But it will lose players when they see the grind and the other issues the update has.

You really dont understand do you? Im not telling you how to play the game im telling you how you cant do it. And dont start going all drama queen about games getting closed. We are not talking about anything big, its only 1% of the game. WF is all about grind, there is nothing more to it. If you dont like it than dont even start. 

[CRCGamer]

Focus orbs need to die. Focus needs to have a far higher natural gain rate.

You should *NOT* be forced into a few specific farm strategies to even remotely come close to a bare fifth of the daily cap.  The entire current focus system is basically dead on arrival because of stupidly high grind for no good damn reason. A game is supposed to be for fun and to have additional things come available over time to give new goals is fine. Having the grind be so monumental that a single tree of the five will takes YEARS for a casual player to progress through however is beyond stupid.

Weren't they supposed to be making operators more relevant? Sure seems to be a backfired goal considering that to get to that point requires you basically having a second job for over a year because of the pants on head $&*&*#(%& nature of having to pay to unlock on a per-tree basis for the passives to carry over between trees.

For some food for thought, the implementation of a daily cap means people expect that they should be able to reach it just by playing the game for a while. Now this actually is the case for the daily Syndicate grinds after you've run a couple defenses out to 30 waves generally. The focus however I'm lucky to have gotten ~30K of the 250K cap after those two runs out to 30 waves each of which is actually close to forty minutes of game time and a significant amount of the time I actually have available to play.

And since so much of this game is about the cycle of getting new equipment to level up to change things up being locked into specific gear load outs with a very specific style of play every single day for over a year is immensely conducive to accelerated rates of player burnout.

[UltraLYT]

Please help me to understand, what else can the operator do what our frames can't, apart from blasting Kuva Guardians, Vomvalsts and Teralysts with beam, etc.?

[Mattoropael]

5 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

Please help me to understand, what else can the operator do what our frames can't, apart from blasting Kuva Guardians, Vomvalsts and Teralysts with beam, etc.?

They can't enter Chains of Harrow's final room.... for no reason at all other than that Red Veil lady demanding so. Even though they already hate my guts.

There is nothing they can do that a Warframe cannot unless we are forced to use them, and even still they insist on making them useless at worst and bad at best, before or after a massive focus grind, a massive Eidolon hunting grind, and a massive fishing grind to make them somewhat tolerable.

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Mattoropael

[UltraLYT]

Thank you, Mattoropael.  So that implies, unless one is really into playing operator, most nodes are just optional in Focus 2.0, right?

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by modalmojo

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Thank you, Mattoropael.  So that implies, unless one is really into playing operator, most nodes are just optional in Focus 2.0, right?

 

The nodes are ALWAYS optional; let's be clear on that.

Depending on playstyle some may be worth picking up though. For example, the Naramon passive that makes the melee combo counter decay instead of instantly break after you wait long enough.

Seriously, just go read the passives and see if there is anything you want. Hopefully they will change things pretty drastically, though.

[UltraLYT]

40 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

The nodes are ALWAYS optional; let's be clear on that.

Depending on playstyle some may be worth picking up though. For example, the Naramon passive that makes the melee combo counter decay instead of instantly break after you wait long enough.

Seriously, just go read the passives and see if there is anything you want. Hopefully they will change things pretty drastically, though.

What I mean by "optional" is something can be opted out if one has no or very little interest to play operator.

So far I just found that the nodes leading to Energizing Dash in Zenurik, and the nodes leading to the melee counter passive in Naramon that you mentioned (already maxed by refunded focus) are really useful to me, now I plan on maximizing just the Zenurik nodes and stop actively farming focus.

I do not want to farm millions of focus points this time just to find out Focus 2.0 will be destroyed in a year or so like Focus 1.0.

[DiabolusUrsus]

14 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

What I mean by "optional" is something can be opted out if one has no or very little interest to play operator.

So far I just found that the nodes leading to Energizing Dash in Zenurik, and the nodes leading to the melee counter passive in Naramon that you mentioned (already maxed by refunded focus) are really useful to me, now I plan on maximizing just the Zenurik nodes and stop actively farming focus.

I do not want to farm millions of focus points this time just to find out Focus 2.0 will be destroyed in a year or so like Focus 1.0.

Makes sense. In that case, yeah... Most passives primarily affect Operator use.

[UltraLYT]

6 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Makes sense. In that case, yeah... Most passives primarily affect Operator use.

Yeah, if most nodes in Focus 2.0 are pertinent to the abilities of our frames, then to me they are not optional because I came to play Warframe(s) and also intend to keep improving their abilities.

[Demaneth]

7 hours ago, kuciol said:

You really dont understand do you? Im not telling you how to play the game im telling you how you cant do it. And dont start going all drama queen about games getting closed. We are not talking about anything big, its only 1% of the game. WF is all about grind, there is nothing more to it. If you dont like it than dont even start. 

Again telling me how I have to play and what I cant do on the game, its the same thing, Im starting to think that you are any sort of kid that cant understand you cant say others what they cant and can do on the game. Anyway dude you won an ignore I dont want to read the same absurd excuse again and again

Last time I say this. I like the grind, the normal and rewarding grind, not this. If you cant understand that simply thing. And I think that Im not the only one here on the feedback forum thinking that way. You just can watch all the feedback post about it.

Bye bye

[kuciol]

4 hours ago, DarkDemonXR69 said:

Again telling me how I have to play and what I cant do on the game, its the same thing, Im starting to think that you are any sort of kid that cant understand you cant say others what they cant and can do on the game. Anyway dude you won an ignore I dont want to read the same absurd excuse again and again

Last time I say this. I like the grind, the normal and rewarding grind, not this. If you cant understand that simply thing. And I think that Im not the only one here on the feedback forum thinking that way. You just can watch all the feedback post about it.

Bye bye

Dude you are hopeless. I tell you you can have 5 cards in poker, you say i want 10 and you wont tell me how to play. Despite the fact thats its intended to be played with 5. Thats how all your arguments look like. The fact that we have limits on focus clearly shows that DE want this to be hardcore players thing and im ok with that. 

[Fallen_Echo]

I wonder how much time has to pass for DE to see that this grind is too much and most nodes dont even worth using at all.

I already checked over all focus nodes and out of ten most of us wont be using anymore than 2-3.

[Nirrel]

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

Dude you are hopeless. I tell you you can have 5 cards in poker, you say i want 10 and you wont tell me how to play. Despite the fact thats its intended to be played with 5. Thats how all your arguments look like.

LOL. You are calling ppl hopeless? Just LoL.

Why do you even think that it is intended to be played with "5 cards". When DE stated that it is not intended for you to open up all nodes? Until you do not find the quote don't even come back. They gave us the whole tree without limitation to access all nodes so until you get any proof that you are intended to play only a limited part of it stop insisting on this.

And that's how all your arguments are, with no proof insisting on something that you think it's made that way while calling ppl childish and hopeless.

6 hours ago, kuciol said:

The fact that we have limits on focus clearly shows that DE want this to be hardcore players thing and im ok with that. 

If DE puts a cap on something it's to avoid that hardcore players could gain way more than intended. Even this one you got it wrong not even noticing how faulty your logic is.

It's fine that your are okay with it, but it's not okay telling of ppl because they are not.

 

[Vortiene]

On 10/20/2017 at 8:48 AM, Sunder said:

Said it many times in many other places, I'll say it again

Remove Convergence orbs - Make focus a "Press 6 to activate" ability

• Works the same
• Only available for a limited time as is now
• Gives us a bit more control over when to activate it (Specially useful in large tiles or the Plains)

Remove the "Pool" entirely. It serves no other purpose than to just be a focus dump.

Cut the costs. By half.

With no pool and all tree's costing half of what they do now? I think that'd be able to managed by a good portion of the community. Those who want to be casual about it can still get a tree done in a timely manner, those who wish to grind out all the trees will still take quite some time to do-so. Of course this is assuming a player is going about focus farming in an effective way. People who just put the lens on and go about their missions? Might not see as much of a gain. But hey, that's what "Press 6 to focus" is for. More accessible to all

 

Why not just axe convergence entirely? Why even bother with adding it in as a 6th ability? It brings virtually nothing to the table, it was a bad mechanic from the very start and was meant to slow down draco spammers. just remove it and make focus gain more consistent across the board like it was originally 

[Demaneth]

26 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

LOL. You are calling ppl hopeless? Just LoL.

Why do you even think that it is intended to be played with "5 cards". When DE stated that it is not intended for you to open up all nodes? Until you do not find the quote don't even come back. They gave us the whole tree without limitation to access all nodes so until you get any proof that you are intended to play only a limited part of it stop insisting on this.

And that's how all your arguments are, with no proof insisting on something that you think it's made that way while calling ppl childish and hopeless.

If DE puts a cap on something it's to avoid that hardcore players could gain way more than intended. Even this one you got it wrong not even noticing how faulty your logic is.

It's fine that your are okay with it, but it's not okay telling of ppl because they are not.

 

Better leave that guy and anyone thinking that way out of the conversation.

Trying to comeback to the topic. Last patch added this

General Plains of Eidolon Changes

• Added the option to redeem Brilliant Eidolon Shards for 25,000 focus each. Redeem for the school of your choice in the appropriate skill tree!

 

Dont know if BEidolon shards are needed for other things (Unlock nodes right¿?) and as an option... looks meh, I still dont have enough time to test the system but as the wiki says " Brilliant Eidolon Shards are dropped by Eidolon Teralysts if two charged Eidolon Lures are brought against them to the final stage of the fight. " didnt kill any eidolon yet. Is any difficult to get those Brilliant shards¿?

[Vortiene]

19 hours ago, modalmojo said:

Please help me to understand, what else can the operator do what our frames can't, apart from blasting Kuva Guardians, Vomvalsts and Teralysts with beam, etc.?

Dash multiple times in the air as an innate ability and knockdown all enemies in front of them as another innate ability. They're actually pretty mobile in bursts.

[Mudfam]

33 minutes ago, DarkDemonXR69 said:

Trying to comeback to the topic. Last patch added this

General Plains of Eidolon Changes

• Added the option to redeem Brilliant Eidolon Shards for 25,000 focus each. Redeem for the school of your choice in the appropriate skill tree!

 

Dont know if BEidolon shards are needed for other things (Unlock nodes right¿?) and as an option... looks meh, I still dont have enough time to test the system but as the wiki says " Brilliant Eidolon Shards are dropped by Eidolon Teralysts if two charged Eidolon Lures are brought against them to the final stage of the fight. " didnt kill any eidolon yet. Is any difficult to get those Brilliant shards¿?

No, you should be able to kill 4 in one night cycle with a group that has had a little practice. Brilliant shards are a guaranteed drop and you need 10 to unlock all waybound passives, after that they have no other purpose.

Note that the focus from brilliant shards does not count towards the cap, this is extra focus. I still think the incredibly slow rate of focus gain outside cheesy farming is terrible. Obtaining lenses, installing them on specific gear etc. is already restrictive enough, we should then be able to enjoy the game normally to some extent, not be compelled to engage in daily focus cheese farms as well.

[Demaneth]

Just now, Mudfam said:

No, you should be able to kill 4 in one night cycle with a group that has had a little practice. Brilliant shards are a guaranteed drop and you need 10 to unlock all waybound passives, after that they have no other purpose.

Note that the focus from brilliant shards does not count towards the cap, this is extra focus. I still think the incredibly slow rate of focus gain outside cheesy farming is terrible. Obtaining lenses, installing them on specific gear etc. is already restrictive enough, we should then be able to enjoy the game normally to some extent, not be compelled to engage in daily focus cheese farms as well.

Then they add a pseudo syndicate medallions option... I see. I still think that lenses should be detachables. Its an item with too many variants to be like formas or potatoes.

[MCSRHelix]

            I feel that the grind of the new update for the reputation alone is fine bc it's just fishing and killing eidolons which can be fun and it is relatively easy enough for experienced players, but need millions of affinity points just to unlock a single tree feels a little insane when the passive gain per mission is around 2k average. If you need to actively grind out focus for every day for a year, it will become really boring really fast. The only real reason I see that the cap exists is as a remnant of the old system where it was relatively easy to grind out enough focus to max out the relevant nodes in naramon and zenurik. But now it seems that in order for us to even progress a tiny amount in making our operators useful anywhere but eidolon fights we need to put a lot of time into the other trees as well. I agree that the multiplier gained from convergence orbs should just be the flat out multiplier but I think that there should also be another way that focus is calculated than just taking it from the amount of affinity earned on the item with the lens and multiplying it by the multiplier on the lens. Either raise it to a higher percentage gained like 25% or 50% instead of [x].[y]% or change it to a different system altogether.