Thanks for the useless mod, Lotus...

[BlackCoMerc]

10 hours ago, Xylia said:

So, friend comes on and tells me that the Gift of the Lotus today is a Riven Rifle Mod. He does it and he gets "Find 15 Syndicate Emblems".

Okay, so since the Riven Mod comes out of a lowbie mission, I thought well maybe there's special rules on this that it will give you something actually do-able.

Hahaha, this is Warframe.

It gave me "Do 10 waves of Level 30+ Defense Solo with no damage to the objective".

Yup. Thanks, Lotus, for the useless mod I'll never get to use. Goes right along with the other Riven mod I have, "Do a Lv30 survival without killing anybody". You guys at DE could have at least made this mod give a sensible objective or something, seeing as it is supposed to be a "gift" and it comes from a lowbie mission, or something.

Oh well.

Agreed.

My girl got the Headshots While Aimgliding, which she will never do.

Why does something you normally grind just to get, need ANOTHER grind to unlock it's use? It's frankly ridiculous and frustrating.

Though it is another good reason to never run the godawful Sorties, so there is that.

[BlackCoMerc]

9 hours ago, Mavor said:

Life isnt fair. Often times, neither is playing a game based on heavy RNG. You can not like it all you want - but complaining about it gets you no where. Either get out there and do the riven, or dont.

Both the rivens you mentioned as 'useless' are quite easy to unlock with the right tactics. Maybe its not a good metric upon which to judge, but for someone with nearly 5000 posts, *and* who is a founder, I'd think you'd know how to deal with those types of rivens by now.

Adapt and overcome, or do nothing and stagnate - the choice is yours.

Great attitude.

If you want to encourage players to quit playing your game. 

I...don't think making players feel this way is the intent of loot, in a loot grind game.

Rivens are just a terrible system that would never have passed muster in a game with real QA. Loot should make people feel invested and happy, to encourage obtaining more of it. When the loot in your loot based game actively makes players question why they bothered getting it in the first place... something has gone horribly wrong.

Edited November 4, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[kgabor]

4 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Headshots While Aimgliding

Limbo with Power duration, range+Natural Talent-Use Cataclysm+Stasis-shoot at their head-bullet jump and cancel Stasis while still in the air.

High level exterminate missions are the best for this challenge because Cataclysm doesn't kill the targets in those and there are enough enemies close together to trap in one Cata.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, kgabor said:

Limbo with Power duration, range+Natural Talent-Use Cataclysm+Stasis-shoot at their head-bullet jump and cancel Stasis while still in the air.

High level exterminate missions are the best for this challenge because Cataclysm doesn't kill the targets in those and there are enough enemies close together to trap in one Cata.

That is, actually, quite hilarious. Never thought about it, but yeah...set up multiple headshots...then unsuspend while gliding.

Still...I am not a fan of unveiling conditions. Rivens are already far more grind than they're worth. Unveiling is just another reason to never bother. Coupled with Sortie gating, I'm not even remotely interested in them.

[Sloan441]

11 hours ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

Now that's an interesting challenge! 

Not really.

I've had this one (or one very like it; it was a while ago), and the answer was pretty much, "Zephyr". You should be able to connect the dots from there.

A lot of them are like this. The initial, "What the...?!?" moment that goes away after thinking about it a few seconds and realizing what will make it possible, even if a couple of tries is necessary for things to go your way.

Worst case scenario is if you really don't want to deal with it, sell it unveiled. Someone will buy it for a few plat.

[Mavor]

5 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Great attitude.

If you want to encourage players to quit playing your game. 

I...don't think making players feel this way is the intent of loot, in a loot grind game.

Rivens are just a terrible system that would never have passed muster in a game with real QA. Loot should make people feel invested and happy, to encourage obtaining more of it. When the loot in your loot based game actively makes players question why they bothered getting it in the first place... something has gone horribly wrong.

Rivens are just like any other randomly generated loot in any other loot grind game. Most of the loot sucks, but then you find that one piece that makes the grind worthwhile - and then you do it all over again. Loot cant be 'good' all the time, otherwise you undermine the entire point of a loot grind game. The majority of us keep hammering away at whatever game we're playing, in search of the 'phat lewtz' - thats why we play loot grind games. If your luck is bad and you just keep getting crap, well, thats just how the dice roll - you can complain and whine about it (which does nothing), or you can keep going til you get the gold.

"When the loot in your loot based game actively makes players question why they bothered getting it in the first place... something has gone horribly wrong." - I think its safe to say we have all done this, at least once, in every single loot grind game we've ever played. So are you saying all loot grind games are doing it wrong?

Whining about something, that most of us have no problem accomplishing, isnt productive. Sure you can vent, but afterwards, get out there and work towards unlocking the damn riven. They really arent that hard.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, Mavor said:

Rivens are just like any other randomly generated loot in any other loot grind game. Most of the loot sucks, but then you find that one piece that makes the grind worthwhile - and then you do it all over again. Loot cant be 'good' all the time, otherwise you undermine the entire point of a loot grind game. The majority of us keep hammering away at whatever game we're playing, in search of the 'phat lewtz' - thats why we play loot grind games. If your luck is bad and you just keep getting crap, well, thats just how the dice roll - you can complain and whine about it (which does nothing), or you can keep going til you get the gold.

"When the loot in your loot based game actively makes players question why they bothered getting it in the first place... something has gone horribly wrong." - I think its safe to say we have all done this, at least once, in every single loot grind game we've ever played. So are you saying all loot grind games are doing it wrong?

Whining about something, that most of us have no problem accomplishing, isnt productive. Sure you can vent, but afterwards, get out there and work towards unlocking the damn riven. They really arent that hard.

It's not about HARD. Warframe isn't hard.

Sorties are TEDIOUS. NOT hard. And rewards are mostly crap, so, I don't bother.

[Mavor]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It's not about HARD. Warframe isn't hard.

Sorties are TEDIOUS. NOT hard. And rewards are mostly crap, so, I don't bother.

Granted, sorties are the pain in the &#!. Although they tend to go by pretty quick these days - I do wish they werent the only way to get Rivens.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 minutes ago, Mavor said:

Granted, sorties are the pain in the &#!. Although they tend to go by pretty quick these days - I do wish they werent the only way to get Rivens.

I would like to see Rivens drop in PoE and normal missions. They're infinite variants. Drop them EVERYWHERE and reserve some legendary tier, 4-5 buff Sortie versions.

Voila! Useful loot game wide.

But do drop the Unveiling on lesser ones at least.

Edited November 4, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[Mavor]

Yeah I could go for that =)

[meristu]

basically any defense is 0 damage or you are not playing it right ... anything like frost or gara can easily help you ...

and I thought those survival are trash too are that you can do it only with Ivara but I tried void survival (I think its Mot) and only thing I used was master thief mod that lets you unlock locked boxes and even with that I was running only on life support pods and what I got from normal boxes, absolutely easy no need for super special builds or hardcore tactics ...

 

seriously people are so lazy these days ... its actually kinda fun to do something for your gear and I am glad we dont have some nonsense like collecting flowers for rivens ..

[Wolfdoggie]

Why are you giving up so easily? Do Akkad with Frost or Vauban (Bastille build) and you'll be fine. I believe in you.

Save your complaining for when you finally unlock it after following guides/advice and it ends up a Sentinel Riven.

Spoiler

But even then that's a free 1 platinum via trade.

 

[Xylia]

So to reply to some of the stuff in the thread....

 

RE: People attacking me for being a Grand Master: Grand Master, for those of you who don't know, are people who paid $250 while the game was in "Beta" back before the Founders program came to a close. This has nothing to do with personal skill, nor does it carry any guarantee that said Grand Master was playing the entire time (I took a long hiatus from the game).

In fact, let's talk about that Hiatus. RL junk came up a couple years ago and I took a ~2 year hiatus only playing the game a little here and there when major limited-time rewards came up, like that Supra Vandal. I had too much to deal with to really spend any devoted time in Warframe. And if there's one thing I've learned about Warframe, is that this game is not kind to returnees. So many systems added, so many things changed, that I usually end up feeling utterly lost and having no real direction to go. And that's not to EVEN talk about trying to understand the mountain of stuff in PoE...

People are talking in this thread about 'Frames I've never heard of, and I know some of them are downright awful to try to obtain (it wasn't mentioned, but oi... Equinox.. lol. Trying to get 3 blueprints was bad enough, 6 is four times as bad). It seems that they are still relying on RNG to keep people grinding for junk until they are old and grey.

Anyways, I saw this Gift of the Lotus, and went out and grabbed the Riven Mod. And, as stated earlier in the thread, a friend gets something nice and reasonable, and of course, me the returning player gets something that is just out of my scope right now. No, I am not going to be able to do a Lv30 defense solo with zero damage to the target for 10 flippin' waves. That's not going to happen.

But since people seem to talk like there's a very high chance it will be absolutely junk upon unlocking it anyways, then I simply won't bother. I've got hundreds of mods I don't even know what to do with already. I still feel cheated, though... I mean, I've spent so long away from the game, decide to come back and see what this PoE thing is all about and... nice, I get screwed over right after re-joining. That's an awesome way to come back! I get to feel cheated, yaaay. Nice to know the game still hates me, after these years. I've had THE most rotten luck (I remember having to kill a boss more than 50 times to get Ash, one of the most boring grinds I've ever done in any game to date, in fact).

And of course, I come here to vent a little, and I am instantly belittled, people talk to me like I don't have any valid points whatsoever, that I should not feel cheated whatsoever, when my friend got an easy objective and I get one that's 50x harder to do with my current equipment and level of skill (being that I'm feeling very lost in a game I haven't played much of in two IRL years), so it's nice to know the community is still.... uh. I'll try to be polite here: not very welcoming and sympathetic. But then, no community is. That's nothing new I suppose. Dunno why I thought Warframe's would be any different.

My apologies for venting... apparently I am not permitted to feel any sort of discouragement when I try to return to the game and one of the first things that happens, is I get screwed over by RNG in this manner. Good to see the game hasn't changed whatsoever. I would have to say, though, that it doesn't leave me with a whole lot of desire to actually come back in any seriousness.

This is a game I loved back in the day, a game I was willing to give $250 (slightly more than that, even as I bought a plat pack or two when I got 75% off coupons) to, but yet at the same time, the RNG grinds and how the game relies too heavily upon RNG makes it difficult to enjoy. I love the gameplay, but I hate the RNG and the pure grinds. I wish that one day, DE would introduce anti bad streak protections, such as having the game keep track of things you're grinding for so that you are guaranteed to eventually get it. For example, trying to get Warframe BPs off a boss. In a single session, the game should keep track of boss kills and what it dropped and set a limit to how many times you kill the thing before it gives you what you need. Perhaps, guaranteed all 3 by 10 kills. If, on the 10th time you've killed it, you've not gotten all 3 BPs, the third is guaranteed to drop. That kind of thing.

But anyhow, whatever... I just feel that this does not fill me with a large desire to get back into the game. Getting screwed over by RNG sucks, and elitist attitudes of players who look down their noses is even less palatable. Yeah, I'm sure you guys who've been playing for years nonstop have all the frames and all the mods and junk... but a player who's returning from a long hiatus, doesn't. And looking down your nose at said player when they voice displeasure at unfair RNG is not going to help things any.

Not that these kinds of people care, of course.........

[(XBOX)Oussii]

17 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Ivara is much better with prowl.

I prefer loki, but its a matter of choice

[KoboldMKB]

A more valid complaint would be that The Gift of the Lotus mission was super easy. All of the Gift of Lotus missions didn't exceed level 15 or something, and it feels like it's aimed at new players who are just starting out the get them some pretty good gear so they can make a good start.

THEN, the riven challenges are something that are waaaaay too difficult for newbies to complete, such as what the OP mentioned. If the mission to get the riven is so much easier than sorties, then the accompanying riven challenge should be similarly much easier than usual. 

You all started out as noobs, and I DARE you to tell me that you wouldn't be angry if you were a new player again with next to no kick-&#! gear and this happened to you. 

[(PSN)SageHeed]

15 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Not really.

I've had this one (or one very like it; it was a while ago), and the answer was pretty much, "Zephyr". You should be able to connect the dots from there.

A lot of them are like this. The initial, "What the...?!?" moment that goes away after thinking about it a few seconds and realizing what will make it possible, even if a couple of tries is necessary for things to go your way.

Worst case scenario is if you really don't want to deal with it, sell it unveiled. Someone will buy it for a few plat.

But that's precicely why I think it's interesting. I wouldn't have concidered Zephyr. I would have probably tried with Nyx and placed a specter at the most remote objective. That moment when the "what the...?!?" goes away because you figure out a solution - the "eureka" moment - that's satisfying to me, not anticlimactic. And the fact that different people find completely different solutions "obvious" proves that there's an element of novel problem solving involved.

[(PSN)SageHeed]

1 hour ago, KoboldMKB said:

A more valid complaint would be that The Gift of the Lotus mission was super easy. All of the Gift of Lotus missions didn't exceed level 15 or something, and it feels like it's aimed at new players who are just starting out the get them some pretty good gear so they can make a good start.

THEN, the riven challenges are something that are waaaaay too difficult for newbies to complete, such as what the OP mentioned. If the mission to get the riven is so much easier than sorties, then the accompanying riven challenge should be similarly much easier than usual. 

You all started out as noobs, and I DARE you to tell me that you wouldn't be angry if you were a new player again with next to no kick-&#! gear and this happened to you. 

I accept your dare, I most certainly would not be angry if this had happened to me when I was a noob. Why would a noob be angry about getting free end-game loot that they could at worst sell for platinum or trade for a whole Prime weapon set? 

[KoboldMKB]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)SageHeed said:

I accept your dare, I most certainly would not be angry if this had happened to me when I was a noob. Why would a noob be angry about getting free end-game loot that they could at worst sell for platinum or trade for a whole Prime weapon set? 

Okay, I'll concede that point. However, I will say that if you need to get a gift and swap it out for another gift to get what you actually wanted from the gift, then that defeats the whole point of the gift. My point being that a gift isn't something that you really work for in order to obtain. Rewards are something you work for, not gifts, and if you need to work for a gift, then it isn't a gift anymore. 

[(PSN)SageHeed]

5 hours ago, Xylia said:

-

If I may suggest a specific solution to your Riven challenge, I've done it myself one or two times and I haven't failed in any attempt. I actually think it's one of the easier ones.

Pick Frost, mod for as much efficiency and range as you can muster. Strength doesn't matter at all, duration is good but not neccessary. Equip a mod on Frost or your Sentinel/Companion that lets you see enemies on the radar. Any weapon will do, but it will be even cheesier with Ignis or Simulor.

Pick a Sentinel with Vacuum so you can get energy orbs pulled into the bubble without having to leave the objective, or if you have it pick the Kubrow that can fetch loot. (I've forgotten what they are called.) Alternatively you could bring a couple of energy caps/pizzas. 

Pick an infested defence mission. (Pick infested because if some of them slip through the bubble, chances are they are melee units and they'll be running in slowmotion for the objective giving you have plenty of time to kill them.) 

Stand by the objective and cast your bubble. Look at the radar for where they are coming from and basically just spam the trigger in their general direction. Cast Avalance when you see a large number of them getting close, this will freeze them in place and they will be easy to kill. (A higher duration will make them stay frozen longer.) Aim for ancients first. If any critters gets inside the bubble it should be easy to kill them, but if a lot of them get in at the same time or if they are ranged units then recast the bubble and they will be violently thrown out. 

Just repeat this until you are done. It is honestly easy-cheesy.

If you put a specter in the bubble with you it will be even easier-cheesier. 

[(PSN)SageHeed]

9 minutes ago, KoboldMKB said:

Okay, I'll concede that point. However, I will say that if you need to get a gift and swap it out for another gift to get what you actually wanted from the gift, then that defeats the whole point of the gift. My point being that a gift isn't something that you really work for in order to obtain. Rewards are something you work for, not gifts, and if you need to work for a gift, then it isn't a gift anymore. 

A lot of people who gets gifts trade them in for other things. It's why we all save receipts for the Christmas presents we buy. 

[(XBOX)Thrun]

All you need is a resonating quake banshee and an energy vampire trinity 

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

On 11/3/2017 at 7:24 PM, Xylia said:

So, friend comes on and tells me that the Gift of the Lotus today is a Riven Rifle Mod. He does it and he gets "Find 15 Syndicate Emblems".

Okay, so since the Riven Mod comes out of a lowbie mission, I thought well maybe there's special rules on this that it will give you something actually do-able.

Hahaha, this is Warframe.

It gave me "Do 10 waves of Level 30+ Defense Solo with no damage to the objective".

Yup. Thanks, Lotus, for the useless mod I'll never get to use. Goes right along with the other Riven mod I have, "Do a Lv30 survival without killing anybody". You guys at DE could have at least made this mod give a sensible objective or something, seeing as it is supposed to be a "gift" and it comes from a lowbie mission, or something.

Oh well.

World on Fire Ember plus Ignis on Akkad. Easy. 

[Djego27]

On 4.11.2017 at 03:24, Xylia said:

Hahaha, this is Warframe.

It gave me "Do 10 waves of Level 30+ Defense Solo with no damage to the objective".

 

You can unlock that fairly easy with Frost in any defence assuming you just play slightly above the "let me go afk next to the pod after pressing 3" level what you see from most public frost players. Alternatively you can do it like I do and just play a quick 10 waves infested defence with Ember or Saryn what is considerable faster but requires a bit more focus.

[BlackCoMerc]

6 hours ago, KoboldMKB said:

A more valid complaint would be that The Gift of the Lotus mission was super easy. All of the Gift of Lotus missions didn't exceed level 15 or something, and it feels like it's aimed at new players who are just starting out the get them some pretty good gear so they can make a good start.

THEN, the riven challenges are something that are waaaaay too difficult for newbies to complete, such as what the OP mentioned. If the mission to get the riven is so much easier than sorties, then the accompanying riven challenge should be similarly much easier than usual. 

You all started out as noobs, and I DARE you to tell me that you wouldn't be angry if you were a new player again with next to no kick-&#! gear and this happened to you. 

Well said.

I got the 30 finishers, no status crap. Easy, but irritating. The whole Unveiling thing is just a tedious waste of time that needs to go.

Here's an idea: no more Unveiling. But each Riven comes with an OPTIONAL CHALLENGE. If you complete it, you get 1 free Riven reroll, for this, or any other Riven.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 04.11.2017 at 05:24, Xylia said:

So, friend comes on and tells me that the Gift of the Lotus today is a Riven Rifle Mod. He does it and he gets "Find 15 Syndicate Emblems".

Okay, so since the Riven Mod comes out of a lowbie mission, I thought well maybe there's special rules on this that it will give you something actually do-able.

Hahaha, this is Warframe.

It gave me "Do 10 waves of Level 30+ Defense Solo with no damage to the objective".

Yup. Thanks, Lotus, for the useless mod I'll never get to use. Goes right along with the other Riven mod I have, "Do a Lv30 survival without killing anybody". You guys at DE could have at least made this mod give a sensible objective or something, seeing as it is supposed to be a "gift" and it comes from a lowbie mission, or something.

Oh well.

Sorry, but what exactly have you been doing in the game for 5 years if you can't complete a challenge like that?