Lures are usually useless.

[Rokador]

Hey everyone.

Since I decided to hunt the Eidolons, I noticed that Lures are completelly useless, at least for me. Whenever I try to chain the damaged Eidolon, they are getting bursted down with just one AoE attack, and when I'm leaving them away, I'm usually unable to chain him down before Lure is sent into the Sovengard. That's not all. Whenever I'm leaving Lure somewhere near, those just disappear, just like something focused those when I was tired with Eidolon, leaving a fine piece of dust. About keeping the Lure to follow Eidolon I'm not even mentioning. Keeping those both alive with Trinity blessing - it's a joke.

[Mr.Holyroller]

20 minutes ago, Rokador said:

Hey everyone.

Since I decided to hunt the Eidolons, I noticed that Lures are completelly useless, at least for me. Whenever I try to chain the damaged Eidolon, they are getting bursted down with just one AoE attack, and when I'm leaving them away, I'm usually unable to chain him down before Lure is sent into the Sovengard. That's not all. Whenever I'm leaving Lure somewhere near, those just disappear, just like something focused those when I was tired with Eidolon, leaving a fine piece of dust. About keeping the Lure to follow Eidolon I'm not even mentioning. Keeping those both alive with Trinity blessing - it's a joke.

It's actually extremely easy to keep 2 lures alive.

I've played trinity several times for capture runs. You need to make sure you have decent duration and the full 75% damage reduction.

I have 75% damage reduction with a 30 second blessing  and I never have to use blessing more than the duration of the damage reduction buff.

You just have to get used to the fight and have better coordination with your teammates.

I'm averaging 6-8 captures per night 

[Dasmir]

you need trinity, gara, or limbo to do this without frustration.

[-Temp0-]

It's just a flat out bad desing is all.

Not only lures all have different levels (and with that, health) they're slow af and need a constant and strong healing because even one heavy attack will destroy them.

That's the reason why I don't play Trinity when I do Eidolon runs. It's like watching a paint dry while others do something (at least) and even then there's a chance that lures might die. There's literally no reasons for them being like that. They shoudl be invincible once hacked/charged with all the downsides they have.

[Mr.Holyroller]

1 minute ago, -Temp0- said:

It's just a flat out bad desing is all.

Not only lures all have different levels (and with that, health) they're slow af and need a constant and strong healing because even one heavy attack will destroy them.

That's the reason why I don't play Trinity when I do Eidolon runs. It's like watching a paint dry while others do something (at least) and even then there's a chance that lures might die. There's literally no reasons for them being like that. They shoudl be invincible once hacked/charged with all the downsides they have.

I agree that they're slow, but they shouldn't be invincible. It makes it a challenge. If they were invincible, there would be no reason to just kill them without lures. Brilliant Shards and flawless cores are technically a "special" reward so they should require more effort/teamwork. Also, you get more kills in one night using lures than just killing them and going to where they teleport.

[Dasmir]

3 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

It's just a flat out bad desing is all.

Not only lures all have different levels (and with that, health) they're slow af and need a constant and strong healing because even one heavy attack will destroy them.

That's the reason why I don't play Trinity when I do Eidolon runs. It's like watching a paint dry while others do something (at least) and even then there's a chance that lures might die. There's literally no reasons for them being like that. They shoudl be invincible once hacked/charged with all the downsides they have.

having in count teralyst hunt its totally pointless for now, really theres no reason to do it unless you want badly those operator weapons.

[-Temp0-]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I agree that they're slow, but they shouldn't be invincible. It makes it a challenge.

There's no "challenge" in bringing a Trinity that presses 4 over and over. It's boring as hell. Just likeTrinity herself. That's all there's to it. Especially once you captured about 50-100 of them.

I have literally not seen a single team without one so far and I probably won't ever see (which is for the best because losing time just because someone *thought* it's a good idea to try Limbo or Gara and failed is just the worst especially considering they die even on trinities in about 1-2 runs out of ~10). 

Quote

Brilliant Shards and flawless cores are technically a "special" reward so they should require more effort/teamwork.

Bringing a teleport Loki to speed them up and fetch if they're stuck is as much of a "teamwork" as just bringing a healbot that only mashed 4 for 5 minutes straight. Same as bringing any other warframe that actually helps in any way helps - which isn't *just* Trinity.

Edited November 7, 2017 by -Temp0-

[Mr.Holyroller]

9 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

There's no "challenge" in bringing a Trinity that presses 4 over and over. It's boring as hell. Just likeTrinity herself. That's all there's to it. Especially once you captured about 50-100 of them.

I have literally not seen a single team without one so far and I probably won't ever see (which is for the best because losing time just because someone *thought* it's a good idea to try Limbo or Gara and failed is just the worst especially considering they die even on trinities in about 1-2 runs out of ~10). 

Bringing a teleport Loki to speed them up and fetch if they're stuck is as much of a "teamwork" as just bringing a healbot that only mashed 4 for 5 minutes straight. Same as bringing any other warframe that actually helps in any way helps - which isn't *just* Trinity.

I mean to do efficient runs, at the least you need a trinity and chroma with good builds and to speed/lighten things up a volt and a harrow with some duration.

They should make other frames with healing mechanics be able to heal the lures. 

Also, if there's no challenge, why are you complaining about lures lol. If lures were more invincible then you'd just complain more about how it's boring and effortless.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[-Temp0-]

Just now, Mr.Holyroller said:

I mean to do efficient runs, at the least you need a trinity and chroma with good builds and to speed/lighten things up a volt and a harrow with some duration.

How this contradict with anything I said.

What I'm saying there's no reason any kind of "high" level content should require a mandatoty trinity - because it's boring af and always one slot taken by that frame. And so many frames are just *never* used because of this fact you "always need a trinity" it's depressing.

Quote

Also, if there's no challenge, why are you complaining about lures lol.

Why are you keep reading if you didn't understand a word that was said?

Rhetorical question.

 

[Mr.Holyroller]

3 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

How this contradict with anything I said.

What I'm saying there's no reason any kind of "high" level content should require a mandatoty trinity - because it's boring af and always one slot taken by that frame. And so many frames are just *never* used because of this fact you "always need a trinity" it's depressing.

Why are you keep reading if you didn't understand a word that was said?

Rhetorical question.

 

High level content should have some type of meta where some frames are more favorable or even necessary in my opinion. To me that is the point of doing specific builds.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Mr.Holyroller

[AandOE]

Vazarin's Aegis makes them rather easy to keep alive, too.

[Madotsuki]

You need a Trinity if you want to keep the Lures alive, unfortunate, but them's the breaks. I personally use a max efficiency build and just spam Bless every few seconds, more reliable than the damage reduction effect. With Fleeting Expertise on you can also use EV on voms as long as they're in physical form, though bringing energy pizzas is important.

I very much agree though that the Lures are really annoying to deal with. They're way too slow, prone to getting stuck, and suffers from all the usual problems of having to escort an AI, except they can't even teleport like a rescue target. That said, I don't agree that they should be invulnerable as that kind of defeats the point of having an extra layer of challenge to capturing a Teralyst and not having to deal with its stupid across-the-map teleports every phase.

I'd say the best solution would be to have Lures tether themselves to the player like a Sentinel and moving like one, as to eliminate having to wait eons for it to cross terrain and pray it doesn't get stuck somewhere. Like tying a balloon to yourself. Also allow transferring a Lure to another player other than the one who hacked it. The ease of control would not only be a huge QoL improvement, but also let players guide the Lure away from damage reliably, so there's more skill to it than just having a Trinity spam Bless.

[ScribbleClash]

2 hours ago, Madotsuki said:

You need a Trinity if you want to keep the Lures alive, unfortunate, but them's the breaks. I personally use a max efficiency build and just spam Bless every few seconds, more reliable than the damage reduction effect. With Fleeting Expertise on you can also use EV on voms as long as they're in physical form, though bringing energy pizzas is important.

I very much agree though that the Lures are really annoying to deal with. They're way too slow, prone to getting stuck, and suffers from all the usual problems of having to escort an AI, except they can't even teleport like a rescue target. That said, I don't agree that they should be invulnerable as that kind of defeats the point of having an extra layer of challenge to capturing a Teralyst and not having to deal with its stupid across-the-map teleports every phase.

I'd say the best solution would be to have Lures tether themselves to the player like a Sentinel and moving like one, as to eliminate having to wait eons for it to cross terrain and pray it doesn't get stuck somewhere. Like tying a balloon to yourself. Also allow transferring a Lure to another player other than the one who hacked it. The ease of control would not only be a huge QoL improvement, but also let players guide the Lure away from damage reliably, so there's more skill to it than just having a Trinity spam Bless.

Why is everyone blatantly ignoring that the issue explained here is NOT how to play trinity, but that she's mandatory?

I've complained about this myself. While I do not think lures should be invincible, I do think they need a different mechanic.

FYI: lures can already be passed to others by making them stop following you.

[Messkoo]

some people play without trinity. It's just the easyest way to deal with beacause there is less managment than others frame

[Vali]

5 hours ago, ScribbleClash said:

Why is everyone blatantly ignoring that the issue explained here is NOT how to play trinity, but that she's mandatory?

Trinity is only mandatory for groups which want to do efficient runs. Gara, Limbo and Oberon can all do the same, provided you kill Vomvalysts since they're able to kill Lures when charged. 

[xxswatelitexx]

Terralysts are meant to be handled with co-op in mind.

You can easily beat it with a minimum of two people. 
I did 5 Terralysts in one night with just a Chroma and Trinity. 

There are other options to keep the lures alive.

Limbo \ Oberon 

Edited November 7, 2017 by xxswatelitexx

[DiabolusUrsus]

On 11/6/2017 at 5:57 PM, Mr.Holyroller said:

High level content should have some type of meta where some frames are more favorable or even necessary in my opinion. To me that is the point of doing specific builds.

So you won't bother with a build unless it is the most viable option? If certain frames are going to be "meta," what is the point of having other characters to begin with? Why would a player want to invest any resources into a frame that is destined to be obsolete once they hit a certain level threshold?

That's needlessly restrictive.

[blink8888]

I solo teralyst per night like 4 times using Chroma, and I always have my lures safe for the whole fight thanks to my Ice elemental wards that buffing up their armor. 

What I usually do, I'll chip down the teralyst shield and whenever I break one of the part, right before the energy spikes I will ran at least 100m away from the teralyst so the lures wont get damaged and my chroma wont get magnetic proc so I can preserve my energy so I can cast the elemental wards again to keep the lures safe (by the time you ran the lures will still bind the teralyst so you dont need to worry about the teralyst teleport somewhere else and recovered its shield), I will keep the lures 100m away from the teralyst and I will transfer into operator and void dash to the teralyst and let the teralyst aggro towards my operator instead of the lures. I'm using the first scaffold, so what I usually do, I will use the void mode and press my alternate shot and go back to the void mode but keep in mind to see the teralyst seeking bullet, when the bullets start to splits apart, thats the part when the bullet will be lock on towards you and you can use the void mode to keep yourself and the lures safe from the seeking bullets.

[Mr.Holyroller]

15 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

So you won't bother with a build unless it is the most viable option? If certain frames are going to be "meta," what is the point of having other characters to begin with? Why would a player want to invest any resources into a frame that is destined to be obsolete once they hit a certain level threshold?

That's needlessly restrictive.

its called mastery fodder.

[DiabolusUrsus]

10 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

its called mastery fodder.

:/

I don't think you can really defend that as a GOOD thing, but ok.

[Mr.Holyroller]

59 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

:/

I don't think you can really defend that as a GOOD thing, but ok.

I personally hate that there is so much "mastery fodder". 

Because of the way warframes and weapons keep creeping in power, so many  frames/weapons haven't aged well

[MirageKnight]

14 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

its called mastery fodder.

That's a cop-out statement. EVERY 'Frame should be useful / viable in its own way in any mission type, even Eidolon hunts.

The fact that there's a meta with regard to 'Frame choices in Eidolon hunts points out two things:

1. That there's something amiss with the Teralyst's design, either with regard to how tanky it is or how effective it is at inflicting damage - or perhaps a combination of these things.

2. That said enemy design has given rise to a scenario that has conditions that favor the deployment of specific 'Frames.

That being said, the Teralyst is very much a gear-check bullet sponge that isn't so much challenging as it's a chore and a half to deal with. And DE's going to throw even "harder" ones at us in the future. Oh goody...I'll pass on that.

2 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

Because of the way warframes and weapons keep creeping in power, so many  frames/weapons haven't aged well

Then obviously Steve and Scott need to get off their butts and do something about it. Sadly, that will never happen, because power creep is one of the big things that brings in money.

Edited November 13, 2017 by MirageKnight

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

I personally hate that there is so much "mastery fodder". 

Because of the way warframes and weapons keep creeping in power, so many  frames/weapons haven't aged well

I'm glad to hear that, but your perspectives are a bit contradictory.

Power-creep is a problem, for sure, but when you say that specific 'Frames should be required for certain content that means others can't measure up.

Simply put, the "meta" builds that let players cheese endless content have also contributed to the generation of "mastery fodder" characters and gear.

There will always be a "meta," but DE should at least shrink the gap to be a little more manageable for people choosing to diverge from the absolute optimum builds.