Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[Lady_Symphonia]

I am not against a passive ability for medium range loot. It is not a necessary thing right but it can help a lot to get the loot and not move so much. That also not fun if you need to go manually and take every rescources and mods by yourself which is still could be okay but some loot is behind walls or just misplaced and that is just lost. What if you see a rare mod but there is on a place where you cannot get it and you just lost it because a silly bug. The vacuum is created for these purposes or they could create a shared loot system and instant loot on inventory when you kill enemies or just shot boxes and open caches. This can solve some of the looting issues and no need to break the flow of the gameplay just because there is an unobtainable loot.

Just my opinions I am fine with a 3 meter passive also but a 6-7 meter would be ideal. More not necessary less is a little bit pain.

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

The funny thing about this is that I have several 7-forma Kubrows, mostly Huras, Raksa and Sahasa, that I rarely if ever feel great about using because the utility of vacuum is so vastly superior to literally anything that they can do consistently. I spent countless hours farming eggs and breeding in the hopes of finding a Lotus Huras just so I could have the perfect companion for my EV Trinity and squishier caster frames and in the end I found that the cloak, despite being incredibly strong, isn't worth the loss to my ability to quickly loot. 

It should be seen as a problem that I'm still preferring to use 0-forma Carrier/Taxon/Helios over an arm of the companion system that I've sunk considerable time and platinum into. 

... But what do you need to vacuum loot for?

No seriously. Are you short on resources? Does your playstyle rely on the random health/energy orb? Do you spray and waste ammo? 

Keep in mind, that even if you ignore loot completely, you'll still pick up at least half of it. 

It just doesn't make sense that you would put so much work into Kubrows and then say you can't use it. 7 forma is a lot of time to spend with several Kubrows.

Could you not play? did your resources dwindle down to zero? Were you really that handicaped and inefficient while leveling your Kubrows over and over?

Are people really that obsessed with loot, in and of itself without consideration if it's even necessary to collect all of it? Do you open every locker too? Because there's a lot of "precious" loot you're missing out on.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

... But what do you need to vacuum loot for?

No seriously. Are you short on resources? Does your playstyle rely on the random health/energy orb? Do you spray and waste ammo? 

Keep in mind, that even if you ignore loot completely, you'll still pick up at least half of it. 

It just doesn't make sense that you would put so much work into Kubrows and then say you can't use it. 7 forma is a lot of time to spend with several Kubrows.

Could you not play? did your resources dwindle down to zero? Were you really that handicaped and inefficient while leveling your Kubrows over and over?

Are people really that obsessed with loot, in and of itself without consideration if it's even necessary to collect all of it? Do you open every locker too? Because there's a lot of "precious" loot you're missing out on.

If you aren't moving forward, you are falling behind, why waste the resources now while you could need them in the future? Why fight the completionist instinct and leave all the loot around? It's not like it's completely free either, I'd like to remind you that back in the good old days people used specific builds to get rid of all the ammo lying around during longer games as it would ultimately grind the game to a halt.

 

This whole game is a damn looter-shooter.

There also is the issue of having to clean up after yourself and up to 7 other people in the party, it's perfectly manageable to work through the game solo without Vacuum with loot pickups being hardly a nuisance, but with 3 other people making a mess all over the place? Far less so.

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyButthurt

[TheKurtiStryke]

"3 m is better than nothing" i know, i'll agree, but... 3 m is really not enough, you can barely notice the difference between 3 meter and nothing.

passive 5 or 7 m for warframes

13m vacuum for sentinels.

is it really a bad idea?

[Warin]

On 8.11.2017 at 8:50 AM, Crowshrink said:

Do I really need to say anything else, DE for godsake I just wanna use a Kavat without having to worry about picking up loot.

P.S companion degenerating needs to go, it's really unnecessary. 

P.S P.S, buff Kubrows.

This, 3m is bullS#&$.

 

Let us use Kavat and Kubrows.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Warin

[Tandem28]

I am honestly infuriated that people would even consider being against this feature. It is simply so essential and so much of a QoL augmentation that I can’t fathom not having it.

I literally only use sentinels because of vacuum. That is their entire purpose to me. I would love to use my kubrow/kavat as I like their abilities as well and have their own range of nice features. But they are patently inferior for not having vacuum. The better damage and buffs are not enough to make up for the lack of vacuum.

Companions do not need a nerf if frames get vacuum. That’s simply a ridiculous notion. They would instead see a lot more use as people would be free to make choices based on preference rather than feeling forced to only use sentinels for vacuum. I should not need to list all the benefits of vacuum as they have already been listed many times in this thread.

The entire point of this game is the goddamn loot. If you’re not picking it up, you’re not playing it right. And outside of vacuum it is tedious to deal with this aspect of gameplay when I’d rather focus on the objective and kill enemies.

A 5m inate vacuum would be excellent. If people want more, there’s always sentinels.

[GreyEnneract]

Funny how Archwing has had innate vacuum AND innate energy regen this entire time, yet for some reason adding it to on-ground missions is treated like some kind of taboo.

[JuicyPop]

1 hour ago, JuicyButthurt said:

If you aren't moving forward, you are falling behind, why waste the resources now while you could need them in the future? Why fight the completionist instinct and leave all the loot around? It's not like it's completely free either, I'd like to remind you that back in the good old days people used specific builds to get rid of all the ammo lying around during longer games as it would ultimately grind the game to a halt.

 

This whole game is a damn looter-shooter.

There also is the issue of having to clean up after yourself and up to 7 other people in the party, it's perfectly manageable to work through the game solo without Vacuum with loot pickups being hardly a nuisance, but with 3 other people making a mess all over the place? Far less so.

You said it about as well as I could have.

I'm not going to change my playstyle a few thousand hours in just because I'm not particularly strapped for resources at the moment. A lot of the appeal for these sorts of games comes from the endless accumulation of items/wealth/etc. and vacuum facilitates that like no other mod in the game can. As long as it remains an exclusive element of sentinels, then I'll have no compelling reason to work other companions into my regular play. I'm not going to do it just because I can afford to much in the same way that I don't spam energy pads just because I have 700 and the resources to build 1000s more. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Il y a 3 heures, Hypernaut1 a dit :

... But what do you need to vacuum loot for?

Vacuum isn't about loot. Vacuum is about ammo and gameplay pickups more than anything. Loot is secondary to that.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a une heure, TheKurtiStryke a dit :

"3 m is better than nothing"

3 meter is the "nothing". It's not a vacuum. 

il y a une heure, TheKurtiStryke a dit :

3 m is really not enough, you can barely notice the difference between 3 meter and nothing.

passive 5 or 7 m for warframes

13m vacuum for sentinels.

is it really a bad idea?

Yes it is a bad idea. Why should we have a 5-7 meters vacuum, when we have a 12meter vacuum? It's a horrible idea. Why are you undercutting yourself? You think 12m vacuum is too good to be true so you purposefully adjust your own expectations? No, don't do that.

 The thing is, guys. Initially, it really didn't matter what range vacuum would have had. Back when Vacuum was just introduced, it could have been 10 meters or 20 meters. 12 meters was just a random choice.
 So why Universal Vacuum has to be any less than that initial random choice now after people got used to it?

 Or you afraid that sentinels would be unpopular? Sentinels have so many utility mods that it is highly unlikely they will give up the top used spots anytime soon even after the proper UV. They will be less popular of course, but not forgotten. Sentinels are immensely useful even without Vacuum's exclusivity.

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[SilvaDreams]

28 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

Funny how Archwing has had innate vacuum AND innate energy regen this entire time, yet for some reason adding it to on-ground missions is treated like some kind of taboo.

It didn't they only recently gave Archwing an expanded pickup range because flying over a tiny piece of loot was absurd.

And Archwing doesn't have innate energy regeneration, ammo yes. Energy no.

If you have energy regeneration in Archwing it's likely because someone has the aura mod equipped.

Edited November 10, 2017 by SilvaDreams

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, SilvaDreams said:

It didn't they only recently gave Archwing an expanded pickup range because flying over a tiny piece of loot was absurd.

And Archwing doesn't have innate energy regeneration, ammo yes. Energy no.

It has indeed had both, for the longest of times.
Do you want a video or something to see it in action?

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

It has indeed had both, for the longest of times.
Do you want a video or something to see it in action?

Only time it had pick up range was when you used carrier and it acted like it was there even though it shouldn't have worked. (Aka it was a glitch)

And I know it has never had energy regeneration unless someone is running Energy Siphon on their frame.

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, SilvaDreams said:

Only time it had pick up range was when you used carrier and it acted like it was there even though it shouldn't have worked. (Aka it was a glitch)

And I know it has never had energy regeneration unless someone is running Energy Siphon on their frame.

You are literally incorrect. In both cases.
https://imgur.com/a/5779L

[JuicyPop]

I'm still not sure that I understand the rationale against uni-vac.

I see a lot of people claiming that those who want it are just lazy which is really strange because you can take any feature of this game and apply that argument. Would it be reasonable for me to say that anyone who uses loadouts is just lazy and doesn't really care enough about tech'ing for specific missions?

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Crowshrink]

13 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

I'm still not sure that I understand the rationale against uni-vac.

I see a lot of people claiming that those who want it are just lazy which is really strange because you can take any feature of this game and apply that argument. Would it be reasonable for me to say that anyone who uses loadouts is just lazy and doesn't really care enough about tech'ing for specific missions?

Exactly, it's like these people are against making the game more enjoyable for the people because they feel the need to defend DE on everything, I seriously cannot see any negative consequences for DE to just ad uni-vac. If anything it'll encourage players to play around with different companions and playstyles instead being chained to carrier. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, Crowshrink said:

Exactly, it's like these people are against making the game more enjoyable for the people because they feel the need to defend DE on everything, I seriously cannot see any negative consequences for DE to just ad uni-vac. If anything it'll encourage players to play around with different companions and playstyles instead being chained to carrier. 

So ummm, just use a sentinel? Existential crisis averted.

You act as if they are going to remove vacuum completely. They're not. You're safe.

[Crowshrink]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So ummm, just use a sentinel? Existential crisis averted.

You act as if they are going to remove vacuum completely. They're not. You're safe.

tf are you talking about

[JuicyPop]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So ummm, just use a sentinel? Existential crisis averted.

You act as if they are going to remove vacuum completely. They're not. You're safe.

But I want to be able to use a Kubrow without feeling like I'm intentionally nerfing my gameplay. 

[13ella]

What about increasing the innate vacuum from 3m to maybe 6m, but only when using a pet it would shut ppl up about a uni vacuum while giving carrier C***s a reason to use a kavat/kubrow. but hey that's just me. to vacuum or not to vacuum that is the question.

[RX-3DR]

28 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

I'm still not sure that I understand the rationale against uni-vac.

I see a lot of people claiming that those who want it are just lazy which is really strange because you can take any feature of this game and apply that argument. Would it be reasonable for me to say that anyone who uses loadouts is just lazy and doesn't really care enough about tech'ing for specific missions?

Would it be reasonable to say that every game that has an item pick up range of less than 5m is a bad game by design? Any shooter game that has you walk up and hold a button to pick up items is immediately bad because they make the players go through so much work to pick up items. Simply claiming that, "Warframe is about loot" does not prove any point. "Warframe is about shooting" does not mean that we should be given an unlimited stock of ammo to be able to use a gun throughout the game.

The rationale is quite simple. There is a distinction between useful quality of life and pampering players. Quality of life has to be measured to a sensible degree which is entirely subjective and ultimately, falls to the developers to decide when a function goes from useful to pandering. Once again, it goes back to my very simple point that you dodged by coming up with assumptions to suit your point.

If I deem that item drops are entirely unnecessary and a huge hassle as an entire mechanic and instead, the moment you make a kill, that rare mod should just immediately flash up on the screen much like Survival rewards being credited every 5 minutes. I decided that this is quality of life that I want, I find 100 people to prove my point, I point to the statistics of Sentinel use with no regard to the reason, why would you see a need to  disagree? After all, it's all about convenience and quality of life right? This makes it better for everyone since now, we don't even need to move close to ammo, energy or resources and it solves the problem of items falling into inaccessible areas.

As a lot of people have said, if you see Vacuum as such a necessity, it's your decision to use Sentinels. Being stuck with Sentinels is the price you pay, much like if I want to use explosive weapons, bombing myself to death at close range is the price I pay. Consider this, if Companions are so greatly improved to a point their value, directly or indirectly, is almost equivalent to a reliable player, would you toss aside Sentinels and Vacuum for it? If it still comes back to, "I still think Vacuum is more valuable", don't use Companions as an excuse for why you're using a Sentinel.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Flandyrll

[Madway7]

On 11/8/2017 at 12:38 PM, Update said:

Players are reaaaaally this LAZY? Back in the 2013 without vaccum how we survived?

 

Barely anything to build, stamina forced you to walk rather than the fast pace we can go at atm, less resources overal, less mods, lower resource costs except in some cases.

 

 

[Hypernaut1]

 

8 minutes ago, Crowshrink said:

tf are you talking about

You crying about not being able to enjoy the game. Just continue using a sentinel if your enjoyment is so dependent on vacuum. And you don't have to use Carrier.

[JuicyPop]

18 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Would it be reasonable to say that every game that has an item pick up range of less than 5m is a bad game by design? Any shooter game that has you walk up and hold a button to pick up items is immediately bad because they make the players go through so much work to pick up items. Simply claiming that, "Warframe is about loot" does not prove any point. "Warframe is about shooting" does not mean that we should be given an unlimited stock of ammo to be able to use a gun throughout the game.

The rationale is quite simple. There is a distinction between useful quality of life and pampering players. Quality of life has to be measured to a sensible degree which is entirely subjective and ultimately, falls to the developers to decide when a function goes from useful to pandering. Once again, it goes back to my very simple point that you dodged by coming up with assumptions to suit your point.

If I deem that item drops are entirely unnecessary and a huge hassle as an entire mechanic and instead, the moment you make a kill, that rare mod should just immediately flash up on the screen much like Survival rewards being credited every 5 minutes. I decided that this is quality of life that I want, I find 100 people to prove my point, I point to the statistics of Sentinel use with no regard to the reason, why would you see a need to  disagree? After all, it's all about convenience and quality of life right? This makes it better for everyone since now, we don't even need to move close to ammo, energy or resources and it solves the problem of items falling into inaccessible areas.

As a lot of people have said, if you see Vacuum as such a necessity, it's your decision to use Sentinels. Being stuck with Sentinels is the price you pay, much like if I want to use explosive weapons, bombing myself to death at close range is the price I pay. Consider this, if Companions are so greatly improved to a point their value, directly or indirectly, is almost equivalent to a reliable player, would you toss aside Sentinels and Vacuum for it? If it still comes back to, "I still think Vacuum is more valuable", don't use Companions as an excuse for why you're using a Sentinel.

How can it be pampering when the feature is already there? 

The entire point is that we understand that vacuum is a horridly powerful mod that, intentionally or not, pushes other companions out of realistic use if you are aiming to be efficient with your playtime.

[...]

In regards to the bolded, I don't wish to see DE take such a measure because I'd argue that the interplay between an item physically dropping and being picked up is better for reinforcing the core gameplay loops. I think it would hurt player attachment rate and would thus do harm to DE to make such a change which is something that I do not wish to see. 

In regards to the uni-vac proposition, there is some reason to believe that it would actually benefit DE given that Kubrows and their breeding, upkeep and cosmetics are rather more expensive than sentinels. At the very least it would be a completely neutral decision that would only shift companion choice given that most players already utilize sentinels and vacuum almost exclusively. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Crowshrink]

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

 

You crying about not being able to enjoy the game. Just continue using a sentinel if your enjoyment is so dependent on vacuum. And you don't have to use Carrier.

Why must I use a sentinel to enjoy myself in the game? Why are you people so against uni-vac, I honestly don't understand what you have against improving this game. Carrier is vital if you want to go anywhere because of the amount of resources needed to build stuff, in a very fast-paced game like this people don't have time to pick up every little resource. Why do you think carrier is the most used companion? When a new player starts to really go deep into the game, they'll realise the they need carrier if they want to progress anywhere. Adding universal vacuum will promote diversity among companions, therefor leading to more player choice and therefor more enjoyment.