Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just now, Crowshrink said:

Why must I use a sentinel to enjoy myself in the game? Why are you people so against uni-vac, I honestly don't understand what you have against improving this game. Carrier is vital if you want to go anywhere because of the amount of resources needed to build stuff, in a very fast-paced game like this people don't have time to pick up every little resource. Why do you think carrier is the most used companion? When a new player starts to really go deep into the game, they'll realise the they need carrier if they want to progress anywhere. Adding universal vacuum will promote diversity among companions, therefor leading to more player choice and therefor more enjoyment.

Well said. Totally agree!

[Altre]

I remember thinking the lack of a loot magnet was a feature. I liked it, the game felt gritty. Like a slightly more mobile Demon Souls. I felt like you just had to learn how to kill and gather loot simultaneously or focus on one over the other. Or loot after the room is cleared, like any loot based game. It used to be so thrilling to see what you got after looting the battlefield in Baldurs Gate and whatnot.

Now the goal is to zip around and get all the cool/good sh*t you can while everything isnta-dies, I guess.

I refused to play with carrier when they came out with him because I wanted to focus on combat efficiency and just slid around rooms when I could.

What are the logistics behind vacuum use, loot gain, mission time, and combat efficacy? I would like to see what is lost between focusing on various aspects of the game over others.

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

42 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Would it be reasonable to say that every game that has an item pick up range of less than 5m is a bad game by design? Any shooter game that has you walk up and hold a button to pick up items is immediately bad because they make the players go through so much work to pick up items. Simply claiming that, "Warframe is about loot" does not prove any point. "Warframe is about shooting" does not mean that we should be given an unlimited stock of ammo to be able to use a gun throughout the game.

In a game that that is a shooter that has you walk up to a resource to pick it up the requirements for that resources are usually very small. Stopping to pick up 10-50 of a resource to craft something is very different that stopping to pick up 10,000. 

IMO Warframe's main draw for people when it comes to gameplay is it's fast pace and free movement system. Stopping to pick up resources basically takes you out of the "fun" to do a chore. A QoL improvement would be to remove/reduce the chore aspect and allow people to continue the fun. People ask for universal vacuum as the solution because it already exists in some form in the game. 

[RX-3DR]

50 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

How can it be pampering when the feature is already there? 

The entire point is that we understand that vacuum is a horridly powerful mod that, intentionally or not, pushes other companions out of realistic use if you are aiming to be efficient with your playtime.

[...]

In regards to the bolded, I don't wish to see DE take such a measure because I'd argue that the interplay between an item physically dropping and being picked up is better for reinforcing the core gameplay loops. I think it would hurt player attachment rate and would thus do harm to DE to make such a change which is something that I do not wish to see. 

In regards to the uni-vac proposition, there is some reason to believe that it would actually benefit DE given that Kubrows and their breeding, upkeep and cosmetics are rather more expensive than sentinels. At the very least it would be a completely neutral decision that would only shift companion choice given that most players already utilize sentinels and vacuum almost exclusively. 

Once again, you've completely missed the point. The reason why it is pampering is because the current advantage is being weighted against the negative of being forced to use a Sentinel as well as keeping it alive. The call for universal Vacuum is like asking for a 10% damage buff on all Focus trees because Marudai has 25% or whichever equivalent of your choosing based off popular choices.. The choices you make are supposed to come with missing out on what you didn't choose.

Vacuum is as valuable as how you see it to be and is entirely subjective. Your concept of efficiency is not shared with everyone, neither is your sense of value. I see the Adarza Kavat to be significantly more valuable than Vacuum, does it mean I am objectively wrong? Even if you have bring up numbers of how much more resources you pick up against someone without a Sentinel, the grounds of the comparison might be very different. You're undermining your case. Some people see that moving to pick up ammo and resources as part of the core gameplay.

And once again, the Sentinel vs Companion statistics does not really prove anything except that there needs to be a change. However, the solution does not have to revolve around Vacuum. If you had a poll of a large group of Sentinel users ranging from the people who frequent the forums to those who play the game in silence and it turns out that a majority of people are not using Companions due to their unreliability and constant maintenance, Vacuum would do little to solve the issue. Yes it will help some groups, but just because it caters to a group doesn't mean that it needs to be implemented.

I'm not against a proper discussion of where does Quality of Life go to far in regards to item pickups. Personally, I don't see this must or die dilemma that the game just immediately becomes impossible to play the moment your Sentinel dies. What irks me, is this dishonesty of trying to push an opinion based off your own decision as a magical, objective solution as well as the attempts to pin everyone on the other side as an old fart who wants every game to be Pac-man.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Flandyrll

[JuicyPop]

42 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Once again, you've completely missed the point. The reason why it is pampering is because the current advantage is being weighted [1.] against the negative of being forced to use a Sentinel as well as keeping it alive. The call for universal Vacuum is like asking for a 10% damage buff on all Focus trees because Marudai has 25% or whichever equivalent of your choosing based off popular choices.. The choices you make are supposed to come with missing out on what you didn't choose.

[2.] Vacuum is as valuable as how you see it to be and is entirely subjective. Your concept of efficiency is not shared with everyone, neither is your sense of value. I see the Adarza Kavat to be significantly more valuable than Vacuum, does it mean I am objectively wrong? Even if you have bring up numbers of how much more resources you pick up against someone without a Sentinel, the grounds of the comparison might be very different. You're undermining your case. Some people see that moving to pick up ammo and resources as part of the core gameplay.

And once again, the Sentinel vs Companion statistics does not really prove anything except that there needs to be a change. [3.] However, the solution does not have to revolve around Vacuum. If you had a poll of a large group of Sentinel users ranging from the people who frequent the forums to those who play the game in silence and it turns out that a majority of people are not using Companions due to their unreliability and constant maintenance, Vacuum would do little to solve the issue. [4.] Yes it will help some groups, but just because it caters to a group doesn't mean that it needs to be implemented.

I'm not against a proper discussion of where does Quality of Life go to far in regards to item pickups. Personally, I don't see this must or die dilemma that the game just immediately becomes impossible to play the moment your Sentinel dies. [5.] What irks me, is this dishonesty of trying to push an opinion based off your own decision as a magical, objective solution as well as the attempts to pin everyone on the other side as an old fart who wants every game to be Pac-man.

[1.] What negative? What relevant content exists where Sentinel management is actually a serious consideration? If there is no content that requires that pause to consider, then there isn't actually a real choice to be made beyond the aesthetic. 

[2.] Of course, but as far as I can see my opinion and perception aligns with that of the majority of the forum base. Popularity certainly isn't reason enough for a change, but there are no perceivable downsides for those who simply aren't concerned with efficiency and there is even potential financial upside for DE. 

[3.] Well, if there ever is to be a companion rework, then Vacuum must necessarily be in consideration for tweaking. It's not really a question given it's relative power. 

[4.] Of course it doesn't need to be implemented, it's a QoL feature. Loadouts didn't need to be implemented either for that matter but you certainly didn't see many people rallying against the concept on that basis. 

[5.] I think I've explained my view of the game in enough detail that such an accusation seems a bit ridiculous. It's honestly a bit strange that people are so invested in maintaining this particular aspect of the game when it was designed with a completely different movement dynamic in mind. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by JuicyPop

[Hyohakusha]

"I dont want vaccum/ dont need or use it." / "Vacuum makes you lazy."
That's why it should be a toggle in the options menu, so you can choose for yourself. Purposely playing less efficiently doesn't make you better than other people, and this isn't a problem anyway with a menu choice.

"But I do/ don't want it to be this/ that because ______" Yes. Exactly. Whatever your personal reason for univac to exist or not exist is exactly why it should be a toggle-able option in the gameplay menu. So you can choose for yourself. Player's choice. The whole purpose of Univac, the reason the last big thread on reddit had 2.5k upvotes (and 3 smaller threads on the same topic), the thing DE has said time and again is "player choice". Using our Kat or Dog simply because we like the way their armor matches our frame. Getting a much needed slot on sentinels to cram more survivability on them and actually try out their precepts.

"People will abandon sentinels."
Give up free health, stunlocks, knockdown, multiple slows, 70m sniper shots, an auto shotgun, the ability to be revived while solo, free overshields... I doubt that's going to be left behind, just because of not wanting to have to pick through ammo when using a Kat. The majority of players DON'T use Kats and Dogs BECAUSE vacuum is a sentinel only mod. People at DE seem to be under the assumption that the exact opposite is true.

"We got a uni-vac with PoE"
That's so small almost no one even noticed, because most people were using a sentinel anyway. It's 3m of volume centered around your frame, in a sphere, not 3m out to either side. Stretch your frames arms out in a T pose, that's how "wide" the vacuum is. It's a nice start, but you're still looking at the ground instead of enjoying the level design.

"It will break the looting mechanics." 
When is the last time you went into an exterminate and didn't see an Ember with WoF up and a carrier running straight to the red/green dot? The "looting mechanics" in WF = get all the loot in the most efficient way possible. Which is why when people get a sentinel with vacuum, they stick with the sentinel.

"Make it a warframe mod"
Absolutely not, that would be a horrible decision in terms of build variety. Like it or not, Vacuum falls into the category of "meta required mod" on sentinels. Hate the "meta"? Don't use it yourself? Good for you. I love Mag; most people don't. That doesn't mean I have a valid reason to deny the vast majority people their choice of frames. And that doesn't change the fact that most people are going to pick a frame other than Mag. Making it a frame mod would simply add a mod that eats a slot on the majority of players builds, and would reduce build variety/ choice... no. Completely defeats the entire purpose of whats been one of the most talked about things in the game.
 
"But Mag's passive" Please dump a box of lego's out on the floor and jump on the pile barefoot. Mag has suffered enough and the 3m base univac was probably a stealth nerf for her :P

[TheKurtiStryke]

4 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

3 meter is the "nothing". It's not a vacuum. 

Yes it is a bad idea. Why should we have a 5-7 meters vacuum, when we have a 12meter vacuum? It's a horrible idea. Why are you undercutting yourself? You think 12m vacuum is too good to be true so you purposefully adjust your own expectations? No, don't do that.

 The thing is, guys. Initially, it really didn't matter what range vacuum would have had. Back when Vacuum was just introduced, it could have been 10 meters or 20 meters. 12 meters was just a random choice.
 So why Universal Vacuum has to be any less than that initial random choice now after people got used to it?

 Or you afraid that sentinels would be unpopular? Sentinels have so many utility mods that it is highly unlikely they will give up the top used spots anytime soon even after the proper UV. They will be less popular of course, but not forgotten. Sentinels are immensely useful even without Vacuum's exclusivity.

 

if it were me, i would set an 12m universal vacuum, this cant harm anyone and it would be a benefit for every companions, instead, i saw people get angry for this idea, saying this would make sentinels useless.

i said 7-8 m just for this reason, nothing else... i even already proposed this thing in an old topic, and some people told me "no, bad idea, loong vacuum range only for sentinels, etc etc etc"

Edited November 10, 2017 by TheKurtiStryke

[Terrornaut]

3 hours ago, Altre said:

40 minutes ago, Hyohakusha said:

"People will abandon sentinels."
Give up free health, stunlocks, knockdown, multiple slows, 70m sniper shots, an auto shotgun, the ability to be revived while solo, free overshields... I doubt that's going to be left behind, just because of not wanting to have to pick through ammo when using a Kat. The majority of players DON'T use Kats and Dogs BECAUSE vacuum is a sentinel only mod. People at DE seem to be under the assumption that the exact opposite is true.

Hmm, kats/dogs tank for me often enough so I don't need overshields which amount to nothing anyway on anyone except valk harrow and someone else.  Or oh, pushing the hijack objective a little farther. Hijack, lol.
Meanwhile, extra loot, high damage, aoe charges that mow things down at high levels (80-100), massive damage boosts to your kits while they put out enough damage to both occupy enemies and tank for you and deal significant damage.  Armor stripping alone is extremely worth it.  Pets offer plenty of advantages, sents are not mechanically superior.

The majorty of people do not use pets because of a lack of vacuum. The majority of people don't use them because getting them is a pain and early on the upkeep is defitely a deterrant..

41 minutes ago, Hyohakusha said:

"Make it a warframe mod"
Absolutely not, that would be a horrible decision in terms of build variety. Like it or not, Vacuum falls into the category of "meta required mod" on sentinels. Hate the "meta"? Don't use it yourself? Good for you. I love Mag; most people don't. That doesn't mean I have a valid reason to deny the vast majority people their choice of frames. And that doesn't change the fact that most people are going to pick a frame other than Mag. Making it a frame mod would simply add a mod that eats a slot on the majority of players builds, and would reduce build variety/ choice... no. Completely defeats the entire purpose of whats been one of the most talked about things in the game.

Agree with the last part that making a mod for it would be a bad idea, but at the same time, the amount of people that say carrier vac or literally unplayable is not as high as people try to say - which is usually the case with most feature demands.

 

2 hours ago, Flandyrll said:

I'm not against a proper discussion of where does Quality of Life go to far in regards to item pickups. Personally, I don't see this must or die dilemma that the game just immediately becomes impossible to play the moment your Sentinel dies. What irks me, is this dishonesty of trying to push an opinion based off your own decision as a magical, objective solution as well as the attempts to pin everyone on the other side as an old fart who wants every game to be Pac-man.

Pretty much this.  This isn't a case of gameplay being slowed down, being less efficient at killing, slower to get to objectives by a significant amount of time, or exposing yourself to danger (95% of time anyway).  This is literally 'I don't want to zig zag over to a point in the room in ways that would probably reduce incoming damage, or kill things on the way to another point in a room or another tile' because I would rather be on a firing range instead of in live fire.

5m univac, hell 7 or 8 I don't even really care (though I do hate the way mods just getting sucked up into the middle of a WF looks, but doesn't really matter.  WOuld be more efficient and look better imo to just auto loot like a survival reward).  What just bugs me is the sheer nonsense of I NEED THIS OR MY GRIND WILL INCREASE EXPONENTIALLY AND I WILL DIE AND NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING. It is that ridiculous.

But nobody in this thread is convincing anyone of anything any time soon.

1 hour ago, Hyohakusha said:

"But Mag's passive" Please dump a box of lego's out on the floor and jump on the pile barefoot. Mag has suffered enough and the 3m base univac was probably a stealth nerf for her :P

I disagree with plenty of things you stated but this made me laugh so ty.

[RX-3DR]

2 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

[1.] What negative? What relevant content exists where Sentinel management is actually a serious consideration? If there is no content that requires that pause to consider, then there isn't actually a real choice to be made beyond the aesthetic. 

[2.] Of course, but as far as I can see my opinion and perception aligns with that of the majority of the forum base. Popularity certainly isn't reason enough for a change, but there are no perceivable downsides for those who simply aren't concerned with efficiency and there is even potential financial upside for DE. 

[3.] Well, if there ever is to be a companion rework, then Vacuum must necessarily be in consideration for tweaking. It's not really a question given it's relative power. 

[4.] Of course it doesn't need to be implemented, it's a QoL feature. Loadouts didn't need to be implemented either for that matter but you certainly didn't see many people rallying against the concept on that basis. 

[5.] I think I've explained my view of the game in enough detail that such an accusation seems a bit ridiculous. It's honestly a bit strange that people are so invested in maintaining this particular aspect of the game when it was designed with a completely different movement dynamic in mind. 

1. Much like the Rhino Skin trap for Knockdown and Status Immunity, Sentinel is a Vacuum trap. That's the price you pay, you have to choose a Sentinel over a Companion. People have been pointing this out repeatedly and that is why they don't see Vacuum as a necessity. There was a point in time where everyone was using Rhino Prime for Iron Skin. Giving Knockdown, Status resistance and Invincibility to everyone else was not the solution.

2. Majority of forum doesn't mean majority of game. Just because it has no downsides doesn't mean it should be implemented either. Goes back to as you said, "core gameplay loop". Repeatedly bullet jumping down the middle of the corridor to loot everything might not be a core gameplay loop that DE is aiming for.

3. So why is universal Vacuum constantly being pushed by a select group of people? That group immediately associate the statistical difference entirely to "No one uses Companions because I don't use Companions for Vacuum."

4. It doesn't need to be implemented, so why try so hard to insist it's necessary?

5.

On 11/9/2017 at 12:41 AM, JuicyPop said:

Yes, and if they choose not to use Vacuum, then it is objectively the wrong choice if they care at all about efficiency. 

On 11/9/2017 at 5:44 PM, JuicyPop said:

And that's why I said, "generation of gaming." It's not really the players that are at fault, it's the games and experiences that have shaped them. 

13 hours ago, JuicyPop said:

It should be seen as a problem that I'm still preferring to use 0-forma Carrier/Taxon/Helios over an arm of the companion system that I've sunk considerable time and platinum into. 

If anything, you're probably the one most invested in it.

This is really quite pointless if people don't realize that they've been sucked into the trap that is Vacuum. 

[JuicyPop]

2 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

1. Much like the Rhino Skin trap for Knockdown and Status Immunity, Sentinel is a Vacuum trap. That's the price you pay, you have to choose a Sentinel over a Companion. People have been pointing this out repeatedly and that is why they don't see Vacuum as a necessity. There was a point in time where everyone was using Rhino Prime for Iron Skin. Giving Knockdown, Status resistance and Invincibility to everyone else was not the solution.

2. Majority of forum doesn't mean majority of game. Just because it has no downsides doesn't mean it should be implemented either. Goes back to as you said, "core gameplay loop". Repeatedly bullet jumping down the middle of the corridor to loot everything might not be a core gameplay loop that DE is aiming for.

3. So why is universal Vacuum constantly being pushed by a select group of people? That group immediately associate the statistical difference entirely to "No one uses Companions because I don't use Companions for Vacuum."

4. It doesn't need to be implemented, so why try so hard to insist it's necessary?

5.

If anything, you're probably the one most invested in it.

This is really quite pointless if people don't realize that they've been sucked into the trap that is Vacuum. 

Yeah, the trap of logic. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a une heure, TheKurtiStryke a dit :

if it were me, i would set an 12m universal vacuum, this cant harm anyone and it would be a benefit for every companions, instead, i saw people get angry for this idea, saying this would make sentinels useless.

i said 7-8 m just for this reason, nothing else... i even already proposed this thing in an old topic, and some people told me "no, bad idea, loong vacuum range only for sentinels, etc etc etc"

 Those people are idiots. They wouldn't mind 12m vacuum themselves. They're just arguing for argument sake. There isn't a single person in this game who would oppose UV for any proper reason, cause there is none. The only reason why people oppose UV is conservatism, inability to see the bigger picture and think the proposition through thoroughly.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Keep your OCD in check, OP, and realize that getting every last nanospore isn't a necessity for playing the game unless you make it one. In that case, sentinels are your friend.

Scotty bless.

[NeithanDiniem]

1: Its already here to an extent with the 3m universal vacuum that every frame has

2: DE already said they'd be willing to add mods to allow it to be larger. It could also tie into a neutral focus tree unassociated with the schools.

[SpinnningSideKick]

21 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Those people are idiots. They wouldn't mind 12m vacuum themselves. They're just arguing for argument sake. There isn't a single person in this game who would oppose UV for any proper reason, cause there is none. The only reason why people oppose UV is conservatism, inability to see the bigger picture and think the proposition through thoroughly.

By that rational I have just as much credibility as you when I say "you dont have good reason" either. Because you choose to ignore well thought out arguments does not mean you are right, all you did was ignore the other person and plod on as before, assuming you were correct the entire time. 

Just saying. 

[Endorphinz]

3 meters, while nice, is barely anything compared to what we're used to. You might just think, at a glance, well you're only missing half of what you'd usually get. But, to double the radius of a circle is to quadruple the actual area it covers, going by the formula [pi*r^2]. So those few extra measly meters do quite a lot in terms of efficient looting.

[Xarteros]

I just see the vacuum QoL being a payoff for how squishy sentinels are. At max, you get 3 revives, but a Kubrow or Kavat are basically unkillable gods, and get infinite revives regardless. As long as you use melee here and there, they are fantastic, especially if you're running them with a Valkyr or something.

I've never seen a Sentinel take out a level 80 juggernaut in one attack, but I've seen my Kubrow doing it all the time.

That's the tradeoff. Looting slightly easier vs having an amazing combat companion.

I've never understood why people have so much issue with looting. Companions even have a loot radar mod for you, and Parkour 2.0 lets us move around so easily.

[Xarteros]

43 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Those people are idiots. They wouldn't mind 12m vacuum themselves. They're just arguing for argument sake. There isn't a single person in this game who would oppose UV for any proper reason, cause there is none. The only reason why people oppose UV is conservatism, inability to see the bigger picture and think the proposition through thoroughly.

I oppose a larger Universal Vacuum.

It cheapens everything, makes the game feel more arcade-y, removes 90% of the purpose to sentinels (Kubrows and especially Kavats would become the best option almost all of the time), and just makes people lazier. You don't need to pick up every single thing in the game. If you're grinding heavily for resources, it shouldn't take any real time at all to do a quick loot run around your kill zone, and if you miss a single resource packet then boo hoo.

We have loot detector for companions, and we have an innate 3m pull, we don't need more. Otherwise you might as well argue that all loot is instantly just given to us, and that's just as unreasonable as wanting every enemy to just automatically be dead. We still have to kill things, we still have to loot them

[SpinnningSideKick]

6 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

I just see the vacuum QoL being a payoff for how squishy sentinels are. At max, you get 3 revives, but a Kubrow or Kavat are basically unkillable gods, and get infinite revives regardless. As long as you use melee here and there, they are fantastic, especially if you're running them with a Valkyr or something.

I've never seen a Sentinel take out a level 80 juggernaut in one attack, but I've seen my Kubrow doing it all the time.

That's the tradeoff. Looting slightly easier vs having an amazing combat companion.

I've never understood why people have so much issue with looting. Companions even have a loot radar mod for you, and Parkour 2.0 lets us move around so easily.

Exactly what I mean, when I tell folks to be the space ninja. Well said man. Thank you. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 20 minutes, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

By that rational I have just as much credibility as you when I say "you dont have good reason" either. Because you choose to ignore well thought out arguments does not mean you are right, all you did was ignore the other person and plod on as before, assuming you were correct the entire time. 

Just saying. 

 See, you didn't say it to make a point. You've "just said" it for argument's sake. That's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't think I'm wrong, cause you can't know it. You assume that I should be wrong so you just want to argue with me. 

Now, I've been talking to a lot of people for and against UV for months. I heard a lot of the arguments for and very few against. Not because I didn't choose to ignore them, but because those arguments are nonsensical and don't take specifics of the current state of the game into consideration. Among the arguments against UV are "it's too easy, you just being lazy", "all games have manual pickups", "vacuum isn't essential", "vacuum is a sentinel thing" and the most ridiculous of them all "I want to leave ammo and energy pickups on the floor to save them for later, because otherwise vacuum just picks them up when I almost top on ammo and energy".

 Not a single argument against vacuum takes into consideration that vacuum is already in the game and most of the playerbase use it constantly because it makes the gameplay feel and flow objectively better. Not a single argument against vacuum takes into account that animal companions are underused exactly because they lack this essential QoL. Not a single argument against vacuum counters the fact that manual pickups halt the game into a janitor simulator.

Just saying.

[SpinnningSideKick]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 See, you didn't say it to make a point. You've "just said" it for argument's sake. That's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't think I'm wrong, cause you can't know it. You assume that I should be wrong so you just want to argue with me. 

Now, I've been talking to a lot of people for and against UV for months. I heard a lot of the arguments for and very few against. Not because I didn't choose to ignore them, but because those arguments are nonsensical and don't take specifics of the current state of the game into consideration. Among the arguments against UV are "it's too easy, you just being lazy", "all games have manual pickups", "vacuum isn't essential", "vacuum is a sentinel thing" and the most ridiculous of them all "I want to leave ammo and energy pickups on the floor to save them for later, because otherwise vacuum just picks them up when I almost top on ammo and energy".

 Not a single argument against vacuum takes into consideration that vacuum is already in the game and most of the playerbase use it constantly because it makes the gameplay feel and flow objectively better. Not a single argument against vacuum takes into account that animal companions are underused exactly because they lack this essential QoL. Not a single argument against vacuum counters the fact that manual pickups halt the game into a janitor simulator.

Just saying.

I already made my arguments 3 pages ago, which you clearly didnt read. Please go through the whole thread and reread. Loads of folks on both sides have made well thought out arguments for their point of view. 

Before I post on a thread I read all the posts, and when i come back after a day or two I reread everything. 

Just a heads up, just because you think its nonsensical, does not make it so. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 15 minutes, Xarteros a dit :

That's the tradeoff. Looting slightly easier vs having an amazing combat companion.

Pets aren't better than sentinels in any way shape or form. If anything, greater popularity of the sentinels attracted more devs' attention to them providing more mods, more primes, more upgrades and primed buffs. More cosmetics, more utility, better weapons, rivens for those weapons. More variety. 

 Compared to that pets barely have a couple of relatively popular breeds like smeeta and huras and a bunch of niche underused ones, some of which are so bugged in the brains (AI) department that they don't work at all (I'm looking at you, Chesa). Even with UV pets would still have a ton of issues. Without UV they're mostly worthless and will never be used even on the level of the most underused of sentinels. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 1 minute, SpinnningSideKick a dit :

I already made my arguments 3 pages ago, which you clearly didnt read. Please go through the whole thread and reread. Loads of folks on both sides have made well thought out arguments for their point of view. 

Before I post on a thread I read all the posts, and when i come back after a day or two I reread everything. 

Just a heads up, just because you think its nonsensical, does not make it so. 

 I'm not gonna read the whole thread. And you shouldn't assume that anyone is supposed to read anything apart from the OP in a thread six pages long. If you want to make a point, just say which argument did you use. Was it among the ones I mentioned? 

[Hypernaut1]

I still don't think I've read an answer as to why you NEED the loot from carrier that was any more complex than "I like to see my loot fly towards me"

Personally, i have far not fun with random mega crits

[SpinnningSideKick]

Tried to edit this to include the quote I forgot to add. Sorry. I just did a new one with the quote added properly and this comment copy pasted. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by SpinnningSideKick

[AperoBeltaTwo]

il y a 31 minutes, Xarteros a dit :

I oppose a larger Universal Vacuum.

It cheapens everything, makes the game feel more arcade-y, removes 90% of the purpose to sentinels (Kubrows and especially Kavats would become the best option almost all of the time), and just makes people lazier. You don't need to pick up every single thing in the game. If you're grinding heavily for resources, it shouldn't take any real time at all to do a quick loot run around your kill zone, and if you miss a single resource packet then boo hoo.

We have loot detector for companions, and we have an innate 3m pull, we don't need more. Otherwise you might as well argue that all loot is instantly just given to us, and that's just as unreasonable as wanting every enemy to just automatically be dead. We still have to kill things, we still have to loot them

First of all, PICKING UP LOOT IS NOT A SKILL. IT DOESN'T MAKE THE GAME HARDER OR MORE COMPLICATED.
It only makes the gameplay less focused and more tedious. 

 Warframe is already an arcade - with or without UV. And people aready have an option of only ever using vacuum. UV won't change anything in that department. The only thing UV would do is allow players who only enjoy warframe with vacuum (which is the absolute majority of the playerbase) play with pets same way they play with sentinels. Otherwise UV wouldn't change anything else for the game in general. You're opposing a lost battle. Vacuum is already in the game. Looting system is already "casual".

 The only difference is if we'll be allowed to use pets freely or not.

 For an action game like warframe with infinite inventory loot might just as well be instantly given to the players. There's nothing bad about it. The only difference is that it would feel like a part of the game is missing. Not the manual looting part tho - nobody's gonna miss that sh*t. Even you wouldn't. Looting has a auditorial feedback that clicks positively in the players' brain. That's why it has to be in the game. But it doesn't have to be manual picking up every individual item. Fof a game like Warframe it's an incredibly stupid idea. 

 Vacuum is a system implemented in various games when there are lots of individual loot items scattered on the level and picking them up manually would artifically halt the progression of the game and feel tedious in general. A lot of games have vacuum inbuilt in their looting systems without any drawbacks. Take "Nier: Automata" andr "Rachet and Clack". Both games have hundreds of individual loot pickups scattered over the levels. Both have vacuum-like systems to pick those items up.

 Vacuum doesn't cheapen the gameplay. It allows players to focus on the expierience.

Edited November 10, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo