Can Ember Be Cool Now? - The Ember Rework

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Ember... 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ember has been the talk of the town as of late, with people giving a ton of feedback on her newly released Deluxe skin (as of Nov. 9, 2017). Now, this actually made me want to come up with something that has been up in the air since the release of Ember and more notably, her world on fire. An Ember Rework. And as I'm aware, yes, before we start, I know that the Warframe Team has already stated that they will not give Warframes any new abilities, but as I see it, the only way to rid the problem with Ember is to obliterate World on Fire from existence. So, along with that, let's take a peek into Ember's other skills along with in.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here's what we're covering:

• The functions and benefits of Ember's Abilties
• Improvements and/or replacements for Ember's Abilities

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ember is used 90% of the time of exterminates and defenses below level 50. Yes. That's all. That's really bad. The community mostly dislikes Ember because aside from this, she doesn't really fit in with the rest of the Warframes. I would really like to see Ember become more. I want to see her become more than just an annoyance for people who actually want to do something on their squad below level 40. I want Ember to become more than a press for to become brain-dead. I want Ember to be fun. This... is how that can happen.

Before we actually go into her changes, let's go into her current functions.

(Current) Passive - Ignition -

Right now, Ember's passive, Ignition, is actually pretty solid. Ignition empowers Ember with flames. When she suffers a heat proc, Ember will gain 10 energy per second while also gaining a 35% Ability Strength buff for the duration. This is actually not bad..., however, it's extremely situational, and slipping in a Rage is basically the better version of this. Ember has to take damage and she isn't the most durable of Warframes. Taking that flame damage could actually be what kills her later in the game.

(Current) 1ST - Fireball - 

Fireball is alright for a first ability. It works, it's pretty nice, pretty much the same scale as many first abilities in the game. It does fair damage, although it does fall off later on in the game, which makes it more of a small scale CC. The augment that accompanies it is pretty generic, and not necessarily worth using unless you want to have a ton of chaotic fun.

(Current) 2ND - Accelerant -

Accelerant is a pretty good ability, and is pretty much your only hope for killing any enemies quickly above level 50 with her abilities. Accelerant multiplies heat damage by up to 250% while also giving a short ranged stun to nearby enemies and increasing Ember's casting speed. Not bad. I don't really have any ideas for changes. The augment is pretty alright, and is better than Fireball Frenzy to me, but not something I'd necessarily use.

(Current) 3RD - Fire Blast -

Fire Blast is pretty meh to me. It's a good CC ability, and is useful if you know enemies are going to rush at you for melee, but with the extremely weak damage and short CC time, it's not too effective in my eyes. The augment is cool, and has some use. But really not my forte.

(Current) 4TH - World On Fire -

World on Fire is the best ability in the game, for content below level 50...

World on Fire does exactly what it says, high fire damage over time. But it's problem is that it cannot do anything to enemies with armor 50+. With Infestation, you'll be absolutely fine for the most part, but the damage capabilities really fall off the further into high level you go with Ember. It's Augment, Fire Quake, is really it's only saving grace, since it has a 100% knockdown for all enemies effected. Aside from that, it's really hated since it essentially trivializes low level content and makes the game boring for other players in a squad. Not great.

Ember/Abilities -

So, overall, Ember's abilities aren't looking to great. They range from niche and some CC to extremely heavy damage fall-off. She's pretty boring to play too since it's just one ability the entire time. So, let's get into remaking Ember.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ember Reworked!

1ST - Fire Ball

Fire Ball is pretty cool, however, let's give it more than what it has to make it cool to use. If Fire Ball is charged, Ember will use both hands to fire a huge Fire Ball forwards, which can also have a 50% chance to irradiate enemies effected. The charged shot will also do much more damage and will have a double blast range.

2ND - Accelerant

Accelerant seems pretty okay to me. No change.

3RD - Fire Blast

Fire Blast can be more than what it is now. It's an AOE CC that doesn't really compare all that well to better ones, such as Mag's Pull. So, how about this. Fire Blast will cause Ember to throw down her fist, sending out a wave of fire across long range. These flames will sunder enemy armor by 1/2/3/4 percent per second they are afflicted by the ability. The ability also does increased damage than it's current form.

(NEW) 4TH - Ancient Inferno

I am aware that DE has said they aren't making new abilities anymore, yes. But jeez, World on Fire is annoying and needs to go and be forgotten. It a lazy ability. AFK-press-4-to-go-brain-dead. My suggestion keeps Ember highly active, while also staying true to her "fire bird"/phoenix theme. Ancient Inferno causes Ember to burn like the sun. With her dormant Phoenix flames, she can heal over time, and can also heal allies with the flames within 2.5/5/7.5/10 meters (heal rate diminishes over distance). Heal rate is effected by power strength. Enemies within 2.5 meters (also not effected by range) will take 200/400/600/800 damage per explosion (explosion gaps inversely effected by power duration). Additionally, all of Ember's attacks will have added heat damage. Holding down the ability will cause Ember to have three stages of charge, which signify the explosion ranges. Charging the ability will immediately end it, but will purge all enemies within the vast range with extremely high blast and fire damage, while also stunning the surviving enemies with the created smoke.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hopefully, these can resolve some of the issues with Ember. Thanks for reading Tenno, and pray to the gods for a rework.

Edited November 10, 2017 by (PS4)ArtPrince17
Healing Range

[Xaelroa]

While I can appreciate the "we don't want press 4 to win" abilities mindset, there's already frames that do this almost constantly, in a myriad of ways. And people will always capitalize on those frames as it's what makes the game "easiest". Granted I'm not saying it should be supported as I personally think that making the game the "easiest" as those players want makes it so you are spending more time staring at the game or doing other things. I do play gara, and I do use her mass vitrify, however I'm also aware of the flaws it has and how to utilize it in a means of encouraging active play. Namely by using impossible to see through energy colors to force people out of it to do things and only using it to the absolute minimum range to cover whatever objective/purpose I need it for.

We really need a rebuild from the ground up of -all- powers to be more of a "compliment the gunplay" rather than a "replace the gunplay", but that won't be happening due to it requiring totally new abilities which DE won't do.

[Aeon94]

Fireball - I'm up for charge mechanic for most of 1st abilities.

Accelerant - Like u said. As fine as it is.

Fire Blast - Melting / sundering the armor is what Ember needs most. 

Ancient Flames - I really like the idea of charging and healing but healing range needs some love , its too low. Range can be 10 meters ( affected by range mods ) but healing effect can diminish as allies move away from her.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Aeon94

[(PSN)RedWhiskey96]

Im up for change to her wof but only if its with in reason if she can still do damage  and protect her  because she is a glass tank id be fine with it   

Edited November 10, 2017 by (PS4)RedWhiskey96

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

9 hours ago, Xaelroa said:

While I can appreciate the "we don't want press 4 to win" abilities mindset, there's already frames that do this almost constantly, in a myriad of ways. And people will always capitalize on those frames as it's what makes the game "easiest".

Yes, exactly, so let's make Ember be the first to back away from this while still keeping her viable!

9 hours ago, Xaelroa said:

We really need a rebuild from the ground up of -all- powers to be more of a "compliment the gunplay" rather than a "replace the gunplay", but that won't be happening due to it requiring totally new abilities which DE won't do.

Yes-sir, although I'm interested in what that would look like and might make the game a bit boring for people who want an alternative to gunplay, which is what I believe the abilities are all about.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

6 hours ago, Aeon94 said:

Fireball - I'm up for charge mechanic for most of 1st abilities.

Accelerant - Like u said. As fine as it is.

Fire Blast - Melting / sundering the armor is what Ember needs most.

Thanks!

6 hours ago, Aeon94 said:

Ancient Flames - I really like the idea of charging and healing but healing range needs some love , its too low. Range can be 10 meters ( affected by range mods ) but healing effect can diminish as allies move away from her.

I actually like that idea more, I realized that would just mean allies have to be pretty much on top of Ember the entire time for the heal effect so I switched over to yours.

[(PSN)DisastrusHarlot]

I would hate the change to wof.... I really like her beceause how efficient she is at what she does. If you don't like it then don't use it. Dont play pubs if you're worried about someone clearing it faster for everyone....

[Aeon94]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DisastrusHarlot said:

I would hate the change to wof.... I really like her beceause how efficient she is at what she does. If you don't like it then don't use it. Dont play pubs if you're worried about someone clearing it faster for everyone....

OP wants to add more useful features with interactivity and utility to WoF. She will heal / buff herself , heal allies and create explosions ( like she does now , your fast clearing is going nowhere ) and she will deal more damage than she does with Fire Blast armor reduction and increased WoF damage. Not to mention charging will nuke enemies.

I see no issue here.

 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DisastrusHarlot said:

I would hate the change to wof.... I really like her beceause how efficient she is at what she does. If you don't like it then don't use it. Dont play pubs if you're worried about someone clearing it faster for everyone....

She's efficient, until she's not. My proposed change is allowing Ember to scale later into the game, which literally every single other Warframe can do.

[Terrornaut]

12 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Ember is used 90% of the time of exterminates and defenses below level 50. Yes. That's all. That's really bad. The community mostly dislikes Ember because aside from this, she doesn't really fit in with the rest of the Warframes. I would really like to see Ember become more. I want to see her become more than just an annoyance for people who actually want to do something on their squad below level 40. I want Ember to become more than a press for to become brain-dead. I want Ember to be fun. This... is how that can happen.

I play her regularly on level 80-120 content, and still pretty much always come out significantly ahead on damage and kills, usually if I'm not being silly then usually 2nd or 3rd for damage received.  She still remains effective at higher levels without being a braindead wofbot.

12 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

Accelerant is a pretty good ability, and is pretty much your only hope for killing any enemies quickly above level 50 with her abilities. Accelerant multiplies heat damage by up to 250% while also giving a short ranged stun to nearby enemies and increasing Ember's casting speed. Not bad. I don't really have any ideas for changes. The augment is pretty alright, and is better than Fireball Frenzy to me, but not something I'd necessarily use.

The augment is incredible.  With some power strength (and honestly if you're building for an inefficient wof duration+eff build you're not being overall actually efficient) she adds plenty of weapon damage and speeds up casting speed.  You are buffing damage for your allies far more than what it says though, because Accelerants major multiplier.  That you're focusing on what accelerant does for her ability damage shows that you still have a lot to pick up on for synergies.  Accelerant is the most worthwhile part of her kit, though wof still has its place and with armor stripping, whether it comes from your own status weapons/utlity or from other people, lets her do high damage with wof even at later levels.  But anyway, Accelerant, modding for heat damage (it does not have to be a heat weapon at all) to take advantage of accelerant's multiplier will outweigh the baseline bonus of corrosive/rad on a hgunner for example.

Fireblast is useless for the most part and only really effective (partially) as a deterrent to melee units approaching because they will sometimes wait outside.  Its damage is not worth the cost vs just using accel for the stun and then laying waste to everything, its ring offers no utility that more effective wof does.  That they took away its expandable size yet gave the same thing to Gara is bewildering. It needs a change, any change. The mod isn't worth it either, because again, should be constantly using accelerant (because everything should generally be dying before the stun runs out and you reapply it, even for level 100s) and wof.

I've made so many suggestions for fireball and fireblast, and while they've both gotten better...the fact that fireball adds no utility to her kit (she already has 2 heat stuns), its just..eh.  So yeah, a charge mechanic or an added damage type or anything could be so much better.

The augment?  Combine the boosted damage of aug 1 and 2 and a good accelerant and you boost peoples damage through the roof, and its not like you have to shoot banshee bubbles or anything.  Accelerant can make any weapon do solid damage, and the aug is worth slotting at a slight loss of power for the extra damage it will add to you (via you, your companion).

[Anthraxicus]

I was thinking that people should look to Nidus when thinking about ability changes, cuz it is a Warframe whose abilites synergize very well, and it struck me that the Ancient Inferno is kinda like Nidus' 4th already. After all, self and group heal + explosions. The difference is that Nidus explosions scale with mutation stacks.

The thing many warframes lack is the scaling with enemy's levels. The proposed change to fire blast kinda does that, as it reduces armor by 4%/sec.

[Justice_Ember]

I'm sorry OP but sadly you don't understand Ember, many of the points you mentioned are true tho, but the way to fix it is not in rework abilities, it's between reworking damage and reworking passives.

Elemental damage needs a balance in utility, the PANIC state can be extremely useful for CC but unlike blindness it does not open enemies for finishers, and also PANIC has a proc chance inside HEAT.

Her passive is a good first step but hardly satisfying, as a Caster and a weapons dependent frame she needs to buff up her synergy with her loadout rather than between abilities. Gaining a stack of x% firerate, x% sprint/bulletjump speed, x% attack speed each time an ability is used would solve this, cap it at 15 or 25 to make it worthwhile and you'll have Embers running around happily shooting and slashing things down again.

WoF, the flaming elephant in the room, many have embarked on a quest to theoretically fix this ability, but truth be told, you can't, I'd prefer to see a heatwave similar to Arson Eximi every few seconds than explosions going off randomly, but that's just me.

 

[Amythist]

I do think Ember could use a good look at, her abilities scale poorly and her passive is basically useless, as there are only like 3 enemy types that can ignite her, and all 3 are Grineer, Napalm, Hyekka Masters, and Scorches, any one of which will just as easily down you than simply ignite you with the damage they can output.

thought I had to replace that, which could also help with her scaling is an idea from Secret World's Elementalist specialization, in which as you cast fire spells you build up heat, the more heat you have the more damage your fire spells do, (in Secret world if you build up too much you take damage and can't cast for awhile so you need to balance out casting ice spells to reduce your heat)

idea being as she uses abilities she builds up heat, similar to Nidus's mutation stacks, with her abilities gaining power or greater effects the higher your heat, but it starts to reduce quickly if she hasn't cast recently, this could lead to things like her fireball hitting a larger area, or staggering/knocking down as her heat builds up

as far as World on Fire, thought for making it less of a "press 4, go afk" ability was replace it with the big ground erupting explosions from phase 3 of the Ruk fight, maybe with a dash of charge mechanic from Gara's 4, like you press 4 (or press and hold) and start charging up power, increasing the AOE, then when you release the ability she finishes the cast and flame jets start to erupt from the floor in the abilities radius for a short time

the heat idea would push her ideal playstyle towards more of a caster, wanting to be active mixing in abilities with weapons to keep her heat and thus damage output high, and the change to WoF would remove the afk nature of her playstyle without hitting her ability to to control/deal damage in an area