Inaros alterations

[Fractalisomega]

Inaros is a powerfully defensive warframe focused mainly on survivability.... but it's abilities mostly are fairly weak tbh....

 

"Desiccation" is the best ability of Inaros and quite honestly my favorite... of all of his abilities this one is the one best kept as is... 

For those who don't know this ability blinds enemies, leeches small amounts of HP, and when used against the front of enemies it opens them to Melee finishers which restores HP when killing an enemy afflicted by this and for those that aren't vulnerable to finishers they take crits. Very strong... the drawback is that you can only melee finish one enemy at a time... more than acceptable.

~~~~~

"Devour" is Inaros's lifeblood... this ability is mainly used to restore HP lost in battle by "consuming" an enemy.... used at range this will tether an enemy and drag them too you... the tethered enemy can get caught on rails and other geometry (downside) and can be pulled into pits and holes (upside depending on your intention). Once pulled close you will rapidly deal light damage to them restoring your HP in the process.... when the enemy dies they leave behind a sandy ally version for a short time. Allies on your team can also finish your Devour if you leave it behind for them.

Problem: The downside is that this ability deals damage so slowly that it slows down the pace of the game... adding a feature similar to Hydroid's Undertow where the damage ticks slowly increase exponentially mean that you can still stall but your are certain to kill an enemy in a decent amount of time.

Having a mini-map marker for enemies that allies can finish your Devour on would be useful... 

EDIT: Make it so that Sand Shadows can't target an enemy being devoured or afflicted by the Devour status....

~~~~~

"Sandstorm" is Inaros's AOE attacking ability... it's range is fairly short compared to Equinox or Banshee but the back that it pulls enemies off the ground and incapacitates them makes it useful for stalling in missions. While enemies are in the storm they take damage and Slash status... this damage is fairly ok.

Problem: The biggest downside is that enemies can get flung out of the sandstorm, there is no way to know how many enemies are in the storm, and that the AOE of the storm starts at Inaros's feet meaning enemies can stay down some stairs and keep shooting you. Add more inward pull to the storm, an enemy counter like Hydroid's Undertow, and extend the AOE to hit underneath Inaros as well...

One more possible addition is to allow the storm to do all three physical status's... Pierce, Puncture, as well as Slash.... this would give it more power against armor and shields as well as softening up enemies for your allies.

Edit: Allow for more vertical camera movement while using Sandstorm  ( suggested by DeltaPangaea )

~~~~~

"Scarab armor" is Inaros's more under-utilized ability... basically you sacrifice your HP to gain a huge boost in armor. This ability stays up until you lose it by falling into a hole of run into a Nullifier bubble... if lost it refunds the HP lost. This part of the ability is used by most everyone that plays Inaros since it just makes sense. The second part of the ability is the more underused part however... you can sacrifice a portion this armor to launch an attack at enemies that deals damage and heals you and your allies turning you into a team supportive tank.

Problem: When aiming with full armor up you have particle effects that get in the way... this makes aiming a bit more difficult (and don't get me started on fishing)... a simple fix would be to have it similar to Mirage's Hall of Mirrors ability where you can see through the particles or clones to where you are aiming.

Another problem is that there isn't really a tutorial mode for each warframe... but that's another topic for another day.....

~~~~~ !!

Lastly there is Inaros's passive... if downed in battle he is prevented from using weapons but instead can siphon enemy HP to revive himself.

Doing so slowly fills a meter and pulls enemies closer, once full you step out and continue fighting.

Problem: Due to how the camera works it is nearly impossible to target an enemy once they are pulled close... the damage dealt while siphoning scales based on enemy armor, and other abilities (Ancient healers and Disruptors can ruin this passive).

Change this ability so that it only pulls them to a certain distance and then cannot approach the sarcophagus any more, this would keep them in range and view. Alter the damage type of the tether and drain to match the player's secondary weapon allowing the player to have Corrosive, slash, Magnetic, etc, etc... as their tether damage so they can better revive themselves.

~~~~~

OP edit: 11/16/17 Devour and Sandstorm suggestion

Added section for Sarcophagus 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Fractalisomega

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

19 minutes ago, Fractalisomega said:

Inaros is a powerfully defensive warframe focused mainly on survivability.... but it's abilities mostly are fairly weak tbh....

Stop.

[DeltaPangaea]

Inaros' biggest weakness is that Sandstorm doesn't do anything you couldn't already do with Desiccate. The gimmick of it making sandshadows out of things tagged by devour is cute, but getting any mileage from it requires the sandstorm itself killing them, and you taking the time to set up with more than one devour tap. Not to mention the mentioned issues of it making it hard to hit targets CCd by it, them randomly getting flung OUT of the sandstorm, and the fact that you yourself can't actually do anything while sandstorming. You can barely even move.

Sandstorm needs to be changed. My suggestion a while back was changing the flinging-about for a direction-irrespective blind as long as it's active (So when you end it people are no longer blinded), and make it a speed BOOST rather than penalty, scaling with power strength. Also, retaining the ability to do finishers on people while you're in sandstorm form. This would give Inaros a sort of more powerful version of Desiccate's CC, as well as giving him a reason to give a single flying damn about Power Strength.

And for christsake, make the range values on the ability screen accurate. There's a difference between radius and diameter.

[m0b1us1]

Inaros main here, and I have to disagree with you except on one part in general, the only thing Inaros needs is clarity. Anything more and he would become unquestionably the strongest frame in the game.

Devour is NOT Inaros's lifeblood at all. Just because it heals you and gives you invulnerability does not make it the best healing he has, rather it's the SAFEST healing. It is not designed to deal large amounts of damage at all, it actually has a weird mechanic where increasing power strength seemingly lowers the life span of sand shadows (possibly a bug, but we don't know because DE hasn't released numbers on Inaros). There is a way to get sand shadows without having to eat your enemy to death, though I have tested it so many times and have not found what triggers it. Sometimes I can make it happen easily, other times never. The only thing I know is that it needs (at 100% eff) 50 energy to initially cast, and consumes 25 energy when making a shadow. Sand shadows have terrible scaling and simply are more akin to the "cherry" rather than the "ice cream". Don't focus on sand shadows. Use it as an emergency heal or a "I don't want to deal with this nox for the next minute or so".

Sandstorm is not designed to deal damage akin to Equinox. Rather it is better used as a "panic" button or as a method to spread your 4 around. It takes too much mod space for rather not great results. Frames aren't meant to do EVERYTHING. Loki has no innate way to clear mass hordes of enemies, but it would not be a wise idea to give him one.

Scarab swarm is one of the best abilities in the game, underused? Probably. Though that is because 95% of people who ever play Inaros just focus on "sand shadows" or "pocket covert lethality" Inaros.

The main part I do agree on though is clarity. Extremely few people will ever use an friendly Inaros's 2 to heal themselves, so some indicator would be nice. Maybe something as simple as a small icon above their heads. Not a direct change, but it would be great if DE would release the actual numbers on Inaros's sand shadows. As it is right now, it's a guessing game to how they work. 3 is a bit energy heavy, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing when everything else doesn't take much. 4 could use some sort of indicator to tell everyone when they are being healed by 4. Most important though, 4 needs a CC duration timer. You can see your bonus armor in both the top right and bottom right corners of your screen. However there is no indicator to how long your 4 CC last unless you don't actually have the buff. Simply replace one of the buff indicators to reflect how much time is left on your 4 CC. Also it currently works where casting your 4 multiple times doesn't reset the CC duration, rather it just spreads it more. I am hesitant to say change it so that it is refreshable because then you could pseudo-stun lock huge hordes or enemies. Though other frames can do that, idk, just seems like that could easily be insanely broken.

[DeltaPangaea]

11 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

 Extremely few people will ever use an friendly Inaros's 2 to heal themselves, so some indicator would be nice. Maybe something as simple as a small icon above their heads.

One thought I had a while back was for Inaros to just passively heal his nearby allies with devour while he eats. Not a lot, not as much as himself, but enough that 'sitting here eating this guy' is helpful to your team without them having to slow down and remember (or know at all) that they can heal themselves off them.

[Fractalisomega]

44 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Inaros' biggest weakness is that Sandstorm doesn't do anything you couldn't already do with Desiccate. The gimmick of it making sandshadows out of things tagged by devour is cute, but getting any mileage from it requires the sandstorm itself killing them, and you taking the time to set up with more than one devour tap. Not to mention the mentioned issues of it making it hard to hit targets CCd by it, them randomly getting flung OUT of the sandstorm, and the fact that you yourself can't actually do anything while sandstorming. You can barely even move.

Sandstorm needs to be changed. My suggestion a while back was changing the flinging-about for a direction-irrespective blind as long as it's active (So when you end it people are no longer blinded), and make it a speed BOOST rather than penalty, scaling with power strength. Also, retaining the ability to do finishers on people while you're in sandstorm form. This would give Inaros a sort of more powerful version of Desiccate's CC, as well as giving him a reason to give a single flying damn about Power Strength.

And for christsake, make the range values on the ability screen accurate. There's a difference between radius and diameter.

Sandstorm is a great ability for stalling, holding down areas and chokepoints, and it even reduces damage taken.... it's certainly better than Banshee's AoE and it locks enemies down longer than Equinox's. The speed is ok IMO, but a slight boost would be nice.... just high enough to overtake enemies that are walking backwards.... Sandshadows are kind of a useless thing for me since they last such a short time unlike Nekros's undead army deal.... really all they are is something to draw enemy fire away from you.

 

7 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

One thought I had a while back was for Inaros to just passively heal his nearby allies with devour while he eats. Not a lot, not as much as himself, but enough that 'sitting here eating this guy' is helpful to your team without them having to slow down and remember (or know at all) that they can heal themselves off them.

This would the interesting.... and would be useful for team play.... in order to balance this make it so an Inaros using this can't get heals from an outside source.... like how toggleable abilities block energy from Energy Siphon...

[Fractalisomega]

26 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Inaros main here, and I have to disagree with you except on one part in general, the only thing Inaros needs is clarity. Anything more and he would become unquestionably the strongest frame in the game.

I use Inaros quite a lot too (most used frame ATM) and I find that I run into a lot of players who don't know how he works...

While Devour isn't the fasted heal it is the one you always turn to when you need that HP without worrying about damage from enemies (plus it also heals your pet), drawing lots of enemy aggro that your team doesn't have to deal with, sets up great for Sandstorm with the aggro'd enemies. I don't care about Sand Shadows tbh... they're cutrate Nekros zombies with no warning they're going to drop. 

Sandstorm is fine when it comes to energy if you use Rage... even then... having it fairly high means you can't hide in there with the 50% damage reduction for almost forever.

Inaros isn't built for power... it's built for stalling and outlasting the enemy... giving it some boost to power would help it fit in with the fast paced world of Warframe...

(also as I said in the OP..... Frame tutorials need to be a thing, that alone should clear up a lot of questions and trouble confused allies... but that's another post for another day)

[DeltaPangaea]

The thing is that a lot of the time, the CC provided by Sandstorm is outclassed by simply using Desiccate twice. Once in one direction, once in another.

[Sasuda]

I don't think Inaros needs any boosts in damage but for the most part this is just QOL changes which are nice. Agreed in the better descriptions need department. I already found out a bunch of things I didn't really get just by reading this. I'm not too sure on what could be tweaked since I really don't fully understand how he works. Devour seems really slow on it's own for sure but if you could start a devour and kill with something else then making a bunch sand clones could come in handy at least. Like I said I still don't fully understand the workings of his abilities. I haven't used his 2 or 3 much, but maybe I'll try them out a little more knowing a little more about them.

[DeltaPangaea]

Oh yes also, Sandstorm is aggravating to me to use because it locks how low you can angle the camera, which is infuriating and makes it hard to look around.

Pls remov

[TKDancer]

4 hours ago, Fractalisomega said:

"Scarab armor" is Inaros's more under-utilized ability

i personally love spamming scarab swarms on my enemies and give them some ants in their pants

 

on most situations i prefer the scarab swarm heal over devour simply cause its CC that spreads to anyone who gets near plus healing

Edited November 16, 2017 by TKDancer

[DeltaPangaea]

Just now, TKDancer said:

i personally love spamming scarab swarms on my enemies and give them some ants in their pants

 

on most situations i prefer the scarab swarm heal over devour simply cause its CC that spreads to anyone who gets near plus healing

You can also just wade into the dance party and recharge your scarabs as you're getting healed without missing a beat.

[m0b1us1]

4 hours ago, Fractalisomega said:

I use Inaros quite a lot too (most used frame ATM) and I find that I run into a lot of players who don't know how he works...

While Devour isn't the fasted heal it is the one you always turn to when you need that HP without worrying about damage from enemies (plus it also heals your pet), drawing lots of enemy aggro that your team doesn't have to deal with, sets up great for Sandstorm with the aggro'd enemies. I don't care about Sand Shadows tbh... they're cutrate Nekros zombies with no warning they're going to drop. 

Sandstorm is fine when it comes to energy if you use Rage... even then... having it fairly high means you can't hide in there with the 50% damage reduction for almost forever.

Inaros isn't built for power... it's built for stalling and outlasting the enemy... giving it some boost to power would help it fit in with the fast paced world of Warframe...

(also as I said in the OP..... Frame tutorials need to be a thing, that alone should clear up a lot of questions and trouble confused allies... but that's another post for another day)

Exactly. Devour is a safe option for healing, but can't burst heal you like your 4 or even your passive. I find way too many people focus on the sand shadows, they are ok and all and to each their own, but they die easily, have a short life span unless you spend way too much time eating, and take considerable energy to make unless you build for it.

Rage fixes all Inaros energy problems. Yes, sandstorm is more designed towards panic situations rather than dps. I think it's weird how many people try to make it seem like a dps ability.

One can say that about a lot of warframes though. Nidus can't build stacks efficiently on exterminate, frost can't abuse amazing zone control on exterminate, etc. Some frames are more suited for different game modes than others. Inaros can be a quick mission frame, you just have to rely on weapons. Also it helps to use mechanics like charging your 4 while gliding and getting arcane graces so you don't have to worry about your HP as much. Then when it comes to sortie missions or higher end survival/defense missions, then Inaros is in his perfect setting. Frames shouldn't be changed or buffed simply because their strengths are more obvious in some missions than others.

Tutorials, actual number releases from DE, something.

[Fractalisomega]

17 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

Yes, sandstorm is more designed towards panic situations rather than dps. I think it's weird how many people try to make it seem like a dps ability.

Frames shouldn't be changed or buffed simply because their strengths are more obvious in some missions than others.

Inaros is a waframe built for stalling.... which is generally counteractive to the pace of the game. But enough about what Inaros is and isn't... what are your thoughts on the suggested alterations?

Should Devour damage scale up slowly?

Should Sandstorm deal more than just Slash status? (DPS is fine by me... just would like some help bypassing shield and armor)

Would more visibility for a Charged Scarab Swarm help?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Fractalisomega

[o.0-]

Three things that could work is tweaks to Devour (consider an Augment Idea too), Sandstorm tweaks and the Passive adjusted.

• Devour, instead of simply creating a Sand Shadow copy of an enemy (that behave like Nekros' ones), the Sand Shadow is melee that seeks out the nearest enemy to engulf in sand instead of attack.
  • So the Sand Shadows merge with enemies trapping them as Devour does.
  • The Augment idea would be for creating sand traps that enemies walk over and get trapped in. Maybe Inaros could sustain two sand pit traps at a time?
• Sandstorm for what it does and how it's setup, I'd like at least reduced energy drain, or a drain based on captured enemies similar to Equinox.
  • More freedom with the camera would be icing on the cake.
• Regarding the Passive:
  • Two things, the lack of some type of scaling for the sarcophagus siphon is the main issue with it as we cannot fire a secondary with Inaros. If it would work off of EHP, or something (such as cutting directly through to base health). As the only thing that sorta works is the Provoked mod.
    • What if Inaros could mark (draw in and cover in sand for at least one second?) and devour multiple enemies, in such a manner, to refill his health meter? Inaros is immobile, so something could be added.
  • The second is the sarcophagus can be dispelled by enemies, maybe it can at least cut through the nully bubble and not be affected by Comba, Scrambus?

 

[m0b1us1]

17 hours ago, Fractalisomega said:

Inaros is a waframe built for stalling.... which is generally counteractive to the pace of the game. But enough about what Inaros is and isn't... what are your thoughts on the suggested alterations?

Should Devour damage scale up slowly?

Should Sandstorm deal more than just Slash status? (DPS is fine by me... just would like some help bypassing shield and armor)

Would more visibility for a Charged Scarab Swarm help?

I wouldn't go that far to say "stalling". One could make the same argument for similar frames like Frost, Oberon, Nyx to some degree, and many others. Rather I think it's better to say that he is meant for long term buffs/healing as opposed to spontaneous buffs like Trinity and Rhino.

Well the issue with trying to balance devour is that we don't know all that much about it. We know how long the CC last for, how power strength affects the damage and healing, but we don't know the numbers behind it and sand shadows. I don't think the damage should scale up simply because there shouldn't be a need to. You shouldn't have to stay in one spot eating an enemy for 2 minutes just to kill them. If anything, I would remove the energy lost from making a sand shadow and change it so that when an enemy that is affected by devour is killed by Inaros, a sand shadow is created that has a set duration (affected by mods) and a secondary duration that is affected by actually eating the target. Basically, make the bug a feature and make the sand shadow duration numbers clear.

Sandstorm shouldn't be for damage. If you want a sandstorm to deal significant damage, there is a mod that allows it to use the mods from your melee. Don't use your sandstorm to kill level 80 gunners, it won't work out in the long run.

Not necessarily visibility, rather a more obvious distinction from devour. As someone who has played Inaros for so long, I can tell the difference, but to others it's too similar. Like I said before, some sort of small indicator above the heads of enemies affected by devour would be great and a simple way to fix that. Other than that, change 1 of the 2 buff indicators to show the duration of the CC (it would be so much nicer than to having to keep a timer in my head) and add a new indicator to show when you are in range of the healing aura of enemies affected by scarab swarm. Even make it stackable with a number so then players have an idea of how many enemies are affected/healing them.

I wouldn't buff Inaros at all. His power isn't as obvious as Nidus, Valkyr, or Loki. It's more drawn out and becomes more apparent the more you play with him. Also once you get a set or two of arcane grace, then the last thing you will ever think about is buffing Inaros. More often than not, you will be annoyed that people don't know his abilities or in the rare case you go down they start reviving you and die instead of throwing out a ton more damage to insta-revive you.