leechers leeching the leech

[(PSN)spicypenguin]

How will you guys tackle the leechers issue?

Leechers  -  players going into bounties and not contributing to helping with the objectives. they go out and fish/mining. while the other players do the objectives.

the leechers will get the rewards and reputation from the objectives. plus they get the resources they are farming. while the other players are struggling and doing 

they high level objectives. i have seeing more and more of them with this update. even 2 leechers in a game. they even get pissed off and harass us when we fail the

objective and frail the bounty. even when they dont help. 

 

will there be a personal blacklist for players? when you are hosting the game they will be not allow to join your game. since you are the host of the server and they shouldnt be able to join and leech off your game. 

vote kick system? 3/4 of the players acknowledge the player is leeching or doing bad behavior.

objective system? the players have to be near the objective to get the rewards and reputation. if they miss more than 1 objective they get booted or dont get rewards and loot. 

i sometimes miss the first objective because of loading into game and trying to get across the map before they finish it. when i host it takes awhile for players to get into the game .

so would wait for the players to come in before i start the objective. if the player is not doing the objective in a bounty mission they shouldnt be getting any of the rewards. 

theres free roam for a reason for them to go farm and roam. 

reporting system? for people who do not do the objective. 

 

i know these are a lot work to get done. i think having a blacklist would be best. leechers wouldnt be able to join hard working players and destroying the player experience.

they would be sectioned off to play with other leechers which will be just a free roam for them. which they are already doing. 

 

leechers leaves a bad experience. most people random people i play with are not happy when that happens. 

 

i already have a list on my phone of leechers. when i see them join my game i just leave right away. my list has about 30+ names. and im just a casual player.

only have time to play in the afternoons for a couple of hours and sometimes on the weekends. i dont want my experience and others having to deal with it 

if they have limited time to play this amazing game. 

so just pass the butter.

[(PSN)Unstar]

Yeah, it's an interesting problem.  Before this, there really hasn't been a mission players could go on where they could have significantly different goals than their teammates (without explicitly trolling).  I think the only things that come close are Simaris targets (which don't take long), and perhaps Syndicate missions if one player wants to find all the emblems and one just wants to go through the mission.

I too hope it's addressed in some way.

Edited December 3, 2017 by (PS4)Unstar

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

I only play solo or with friends - leech problem (and most game crashes) solved.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

Starting another thread on the same topic of your previous thread isn't going to help anything.

When you select a bounty and head into the plains on Public, you may get players who spawn in that didn't sign up to your bounty.  That doesn't make them leechers.  Are you suggesting that the matchmaking change to fix this?  How would you fix it?

21 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

vote kick system? 3/4 of the players acknowledge the player is leeching or doing bad behavior.

No, this would be abused and DE has stated they are not open to implementing a vote kick.

[(PSN)spicypenguin]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

When you select a bounty and head into the plains on Public, you may get players who spawn in that didn't sign up to your bounty.  That doesn't make them leechers.  Are you suggesting that the matchmaking change to fix this?  How would you fix it?

No, this would be abused and DE has stated they are not open to implementing a vote kick.

why dont they go solo into the game? why do they stay in the game and farm? they can just leave and join a game that is just farming. i had a couple of times where the team ask person if they are going to help. and the person told us to "eff off, i do what i want" most of these people know what they are doing and just want an easy way to play. so if they put a system in where they have to be in the objective area to get the reward. they are making people having to play the bounty and not go off and farm. 

i suggesting they should have a choices to host a game/farming/bounty. 

they need to change the PoE to not join a bounty game. 

 

i can see a vote kick system being abused. but if you are doing something bad and being super offense. there should be a blacklist. or prefer not to play with players.

 

[(PSN)spicypenguin]

21 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

I only play solo or with friends - leech problem (and most game crashes) solved.

I dont have friends. pretty much a solo player but i cant do the 5 tier solo. getting bombed by everything is no fun. lol 

so i mainly count on the team play for the upper tier bounties. 

[(PSN)Irate_Beau]

Saying "play solo" is only treating the symptoms. We need an actual, practical solution to this. If DE refuses to add a votekick (which is just ridiculous), then there needs to be some sort of punishment to players who leech in this fashion.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

10 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

why dont they go solo into the game?

And, they'll ask you the same question.  Why don't you go into recruitment chat or play solo or with clanmates?  It goes both ways.

10 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

...most of these people know what they are doing and just want an easy way to play.

You don't know that.

10 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

so if they put a system in where they have to be in the objective area to get the reward.

That's not a bad idea.

11 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

i suggesting they should have a choices to host a game/farming/bounty. 

DE doesn't seem inclined to add this feature.

11 hours ago, (PS4)spicypenguin said:

they need to change the PoE to not join a bounty game. 

Then, how will people join you?

9 hours ago, (PS4)Solo_Wing1 said:

If DE refuses to add a votekick (which is just ridiculous), then there needs to be some sort of punishment to players who leech in this fashion.

No, having a vote kick would be ridiculous, because we both know that groups of three friends would get together and kick the fourth person at the last second just for funsies.  And, I'll ask you the same question.  How do you know that the person who joins a free roam and gets put into your bounty session wanted to do your bounty?

[(PSN)Voidkraken]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

And, I'll ask you the same question.  How do you know that the person who joins a free roam and gets put into your bounty session wanted to do your bounty?

I'm reasonably certain that every time I've joined a free roam session as actual free roam, it's never placed me into any active bounty missions - only when I've had a bounty selected before entering the plains has this happened, and it's always placed me in the same tier/same bounty as the one I selected. Any time I've chosen free roam or not had a bounty selected on entering the plains, it's seemingly to place me in a non-bounty instance.

I might have simply been "lucky" so far, but it is likely to my mind that DE's existing matchmaking system handles bounties as a form of "mission", including "Free roam" as a "mission" - so it should place you into any open squad of the same mission (regardless of progress), but not a mismatched mission.  If so, this would support the theory that there are indeed players selecting a bounty before entering the plains (and thus should know what they've chosen to do), but choosing not to participate in the objectives for whatever reason.

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Voidkraken said:

I'm reasonably certain that every time I've joined a free roam session as actual free roam, it's never placed me into any active bounty missions - only when I've had a bounty selected before entering the plains has this happened, and it's always placed me in the same tier/same bounty as the one I selected. Any time I've chosen free roam or not had a bounty selected on entering the plains, it's seemingly to place me in a non-bounty instance.

I might have simply been "lucky" so far, but it is likely to my mind that DE's existing matchmaking system handles bounties as a form of "mission", including "Free roam" as a "mission" - so it should place you into any open squad of the same mission (regardless of progress), but not a mismatched mission.  If so, this would support the theory that there are indeed players selecting a bounty before entering the plains (and thus should know what they've chosen to do), but choosing not to participate in the objectives for whatever reason.

I'm not aware if that's the case or not.  If it is the case, then yes, people should not accept a bounty, join other people running the bounty, and not do anything to help.  People who do that should be reported.

If it's not the case, then it probably should be the case.  It should match players up who choose bounties to run them together.

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 12/4/2017 at 6:41 AM, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

When you select a bounty and head into the plains on Public, you may get players who spawn in that didn't sign up to your bounty.  That doesn't make them leechers.  Are you suggesting that the matchmaking change to fix this?  How would you fix it?

I don't think what you're saying is true, mainly because that would be a terrible, terrible design.  But that said, I don't have any evidence to support this aside from expecting a basic level of competency from DE.

The solution is incredibly simple: matchmake people who sign up for a bounty with people who signed up for the same bounty, and matchmake people who just wander into the plains with people who also just wandered into the plains.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

I don't think what you're saying is true, mainly because that would be a terrible, terrible design.  But that said, I don't have any evidence to support this aside from expecting a basic level of competency from DE.

The solution is incredibly simple: matchmake people who sign up for a bounty with people who signed up for the same bounty, and matchmake people who just wander into the plains with people who also just wandered into the plains.

I'll admit that I don't know how it works for sure.  I feel like I've seen grumblings on these forums from PC players that have indicated that people don't necessarily have to choose a bounty to spawn into a bounty in progress, but I can't locate any of those.  I would hope that one would have to select a bounty in order to be matched up with a bounty in progress, and if that's the case, then the people not helping are certainly leeching and should be reported.

[(PSN)Voidkraken]

We could probably try an adhoc test to get a better picture of this, and settle the question of how it works once and for all?  While that won't solve "the leech problem", we will at least know if they are joining with a selected bounty or just being put there without their conscious decision and give a better platform to present the issue to DE.

• Each time we join a free roam Plains session from space:
  • Add one to our personal tally of total Space free roam sessions
  • If this results in joining a session which has a bounty in progress (incursions do not count, has to be an actual multi-stage bounty, even if it's on the final step)
• Each time we join a free roam session from Cetus by entering the plains without selecting a bounty
  • Add one to our personal tally of total Cetus free roam sessions
  • If this results in joining a session which has a bounty in progress (incursions do not count, has to be an actual multi-stage bounty, even if it's on the final step)
• If you do join a bounty in progress, help them finish before leaving for the next test :)

The purpose of tracking this info ourselves, AND of keeping separate track of free roam initiated from Cetus as well as from Space is that if there is a bug, it might be that the bug crops up only in one of these two situations but not the other. This potentially gives us a workaround if so AND gives DE more info on where to look for the issue if we identify one.

What do you think?  I'll try and join a bunch of free roam sessions tonight, and see what results I get.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

It is an interesting problem. Personally I've only encountered one and he was just being "afk" while we were farming plague star.

[(PSN)Voidkraken]

Following on from my post yesterday, my finding so far (didn't spent long on them, sorry):

• Total free roam missions joined from space = 5
  • Number of times this resulted in joining a bounty in progress = 0
• Total free roam missions joined from Cetus (no bounty selected prior to entering the gates) = 5
  • Number of times this resulted in joining a bounty in progress = 0

So far, when monitoring the results, none of my attempts to join a free roam session have resulted in my landing in an open squad which had a bounty in progress, out of an admittedly tiny sample set.  While more data is really needed to make it statistically significant, I believe that so far this supports the OP's original issue - that these players have the bounty selected when they join, and are choosing not to participate and so "leeching" free rewards of those who are working directly on it.

I believe a clean solution might be to require participation in the bounty goals (E.g. "be within the objective radius at stage end or have obtained any number of kills within the objective radius" for that bounty stage to reward you), rather than any form of vote kicking or punishment.  A minimal participation requirement allows for players working together to get lost on the way (as happens sometimes), or for higher level players to choose to "carry" friends, but still exclude those who literally don't go near or participate at all. There would remain some potential for abuse (ninja in, get one kill, run away) - but this would require said player to drop what they are doing, move to the objective and do something, breaking what they were doing up in order to achieve this...which I think has the desired effect of making it more work to get the "free" rewards than it might be worth?

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

This is definitely an issue that needs addressed, but a vote kick system will not be the solution. Anyone who has been around for any length of time knows the frustration of trolls leaving you by yourself at the last minute in a defense mission, just to be jerks. Giving that same type of people the power to actually kick out or blacklist a player would not end well. Wee have all seen people get mad at strangers because they wouldn't do exactly what someone wanted, or didn't have their build set up the way they wanted, or because they thought they were kill stealing, or for some other ridiculous reason. DE cannot give players the power to control other people's play like that, or it would be immediately abused. I would rather have people leech off of me any day than kick me out of a mission.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

This would be easy to fix....

-When you enter PoE from a bounty  fishing/mining is turned off....  nothing to do except the mission.

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

On 12/8/2017 at 2:47 PM, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

This would be easy to fix....

-When you enter PoE from a bounty  fishing/mining is turned off....  nothing to do except the mission.

 

That wouldn't be a great solution for those of us who mine on the way to/from parts of the bounties.  If I see a blue vein, I'm grabbing it (I only do this on Solo, which is the vast majority of my time on bounties - the rest is Invite Only).

[(PSN)mmcareen]

They are definitely a problem.  Never seen the likes of it before.  You used to get them every now and then back in the tower days.  It' 1 out of 3 bounties now if your lucky.  I put up a idea myself about if not being in range you get no rewards.  Vote to kick would unforgentually be abused.  You know yourself how bad the PS4 community can be.  I have added easily a 100 probably getting close to 200 people to my ignore list sense Plains release just for leaching.  It's sad.  To make it worse it' mostly high MR.  MR20 plus for the most part.

[(PSN)Steelergurl33]

1 hour ago, (PS4)mmcareen said:

They are definitely a problem.  Never seen the likes of it before.  You used to get them every now and then back in the tower days.  It' 1 out of 3 bounties now if your lucky.  I put up a idea myself about if not being in range you get no rewards.  Vote to kick would unforgentually be abused.  You know yourself how bad the PS4 community can be.  I have added easily a 100 probably getting close to 200 people to my ignore list sense Plains release just for leaching.  It's sad.  To make it worse it' mostly high MR.  MR20 plus for the most part.

I totally agree, there should be a "in range reward area". 

[(PSN)spicypenguin]

On 12/5/2017 at 2:27 AM, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

And, they'll ask you the same question.  Why don't you go into recruitment chat or play solo or with clanmates?  It goes both ways.

You don't know that.

That's not a bad idea.

DE doesn't seem inclined to add this feature.

Then, how will people join you?

No, having a vote kick would be ridiculous, because we both know that groups of three friends would get together and kick the fourth person at the last second just for funsies.  And, I'll ask you the same question.  How do you know that the person who joins a free roam and gets put into your bounty session wanted to do your bounty?

I know thats what people do when they join the bounties. because you choose bounties to get into the bounties. 

no way for them to go to free roam into bounties. and the people know what they are doing for easy farm for rep, rewards, and they get a bonus farm from resource gatherings

i like the idea of you have to be in the area of the bounties to get the reward. they already have the yellow objective area highlighted. 

its just lots going on. and time is factor for players who only have certain amount time to play a day. and if they whole team is not playing and making the bounties/quest longer than usual. its a bummer. so lame.

[(PSN)Vaaghn]

On 12/14/2017 at 1:45 PM, (PS4)mmcareen said:

To make it worse it' mostly high MR.  MR20 plus for the most part.

Yes, I've noticed this as well. A majority of the time that there's a leecher in my games they have been at a high MR. Luckily for me I've not really ran into too many leechers where it became a problem. I can only guess they just want to get the loot and get out. The increase of occurrences probably has something to do with how the bounties often have us going across the map. Doing repeated bounties to farm for an item. Going from one end of the map to the other in repetition. I suppose some would rather just leech instead.

As for vote-kicking, I've seen this feature abused in many other games more times than it actually be helpful. As much as the Warframe community is often regarded as a great community (and it is), it is still an online community and is thus susceptible to troll behavior. I could imagine a scenario where a team vote kicks Limbo because Limbo. Or vote kicks Ember or Mesa because of kill-steals. Or any other warframe/weapon/build that anger a group. Your warframe has black and red color scheme?! Vote-kick!

I joke on that last bit, but it's not far from the truth.

Having to be near the objective seems to be the best option. As it currently stands, it seems leechers choose to leech because they simply don't feel like going all over the map and just want the loot with little effort. So having to actually get to the bounty objectives to even get the loot, this may curtail some of the leeching. Because at that point since they're near the objective, they may as well contribute.

[(PSN)Eldestbun]

I've been told that Warframe's matchmaking will try to avoid pairing you with players you have on ignore. I cannot say for certain if that's the case, but I've never run into anyone on my ignore list in a public mission.