If you want players not to cheese your game, stop cheesing them first

[Arcaedias]

At no point in a normal daily activity, such as sorties, should any warframe be getting one shotted. As arrogant as it sounds to just make a claim like that, I can't say I've ever met a reasonable person who enjoyed randomly dying from stray bullets in any game other than insurgency, and the one person who ever said that to me only enjoyed it because apparently "it felt more realistic than other shooters." Elemental Sorties should probably have a looking at. I understand, you can mod for SOME of them, which is fine. I did that, and I cheesed the mission which was apt in this situation. However, I think it says a lot for the other frames that can't infinitely cc everything in the game from three rooms over, be immortal, or be perma-invis when Nidus is getting one shotted and 300+ damage per shot is getting through Mesa's Shatter shield with 95% damage reduction in a Sortie. Please reconsider the damage values of the enemies in the game.

Inb4 "git gud." I'll "git gud" when Grineer don't have hitscan weapons and aimbotting AI. I ACTUALLY prefer fighting the Corpus since dodging means something when you fight them. Go figure.

[SirWranwrap]

Honestly sorties are pretty trivial with whatever combo I care to bring.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

True fact. The game is not balanced around sortie level enemies, they are meant to push you to your limits. True most people just cheese it, but there are actual ways to handle it without such methods.

[blazinvire]

Dealing with sortie-level enemies feels kinda pointless, since it really does boil down to cheese fighting cheese.

I mean, I play Saryn who can be a pretty nice mix of tank and dps, but she gets killed in about 2 shots and it takes me about 10-20 shots to kill ONE of them.  What is my response to this supposed to be?
Bring a Trinity so I'm invincible?  Bring a Harrow or a Equinox to perma-cc them?  Bring a Frost to spam snowglobe so I'm invincible again?  Bring a dagger with Covert Lethality to instant-kill them?

I don't really understand what they're expecting from us, other than cheese.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

12/4 I did all sortie 1-3 solo operator only leaving warframe at spawn and never getting teleported back to him.  Rescue-Spy-Assasinate Phorid.  If emo can do it, any warframe can.

 

[Kimimoto]

Sorties are pretty casual, you do not in anyway need to cheese them. In fact there's no content in the game that you have to cheese, people just choose to do so because it takes no effort.

[Snib]

Bringing the right tool for the job is cheesing now? Before you enter the sortie it tells you what sort of mission it is and what sort of enemies to expect, so bring something that can handle it. That's not cheesing, that's common sense. I brought an irradiate disarm Loki, because using his ability to prevent enemies from shooting you is not cheesing, it's using the frame for its intended purpose.

CheeseSheesh.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Balance? What balance? Everything is balanced in captura. *sarcasm*

Edited December 6, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[tnccs215]

5 hours ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

True fact. The game is not balanced around sortie level enemies, they are meant to push you to your limits. True most people just cheese it, but there are actual ways to handle it without such methods.

The game isn't balanced at all. The only thing that differs is whether you are the only one cheesing, or the enemies are also cheesing you. 

And there are ways to deal with it that don't amount to cheese, yes; but not on all situations (increased slash damage on enemies invariably means you have to prevent them from shooting at all, which obligatorily means cheese), and one cannot pretend cheesy tools aren't at our disposal. 

The difficulty of something is invariably based on  the best tools one has at their disposal. When you have such powerful tools that cheese even brutally high level enemies, the game invariably gets measures to counteract such brutal amounts of powers - which renders any reasonable, non abusive, non cheesie power insufficient. 

Balance is fundamental in any game, at any point. It's necessary for optimal player enjoyment, and to maintain the in-game economy - a particularly fulcral point on Free-to-Play games. Any game mode that allegedly throws balance out of the window to "test you" is being awfully dishonest, and always either is too easy to deal with, or unfairly unbearable. 

With the amplitude of power effectiveness warframes have, it ends up being both. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by tnccs215

[xXDeadsinxX]

So true. Another reason why we need Shield Gating to be added into the game.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

12/4 I did all sortie 1-3 solo operator only leaving warframe at spawn and never getting teleported back to him.  Rescue-Spy-Assasinate Phorid.  If emo can do it, any warframe can.

 

Oh sure, every warframe has weapons that have zero disadvantages, can regenerate their reserve of energy in a few seconds, and have a crouch mode that makes them invulnerable as well as undetectable.

:/

[Tengetsu96]

Not saying you need a specific setup, but you honestly might have the wrong mods equipped if you're seriously getting one-shotted by Sortie-level enemies, especially with frames like Nidus and Mesa. Literally ran the Grineer Level 100 survival yesterday with a non-CC Banshee - you don't have to "git gud" but mobility/tactics is supposed to be apart of the challenge. You don't need Loki, Ember, Rhino etc. to complete high-level missions - they just make it much easier to do so

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

2 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Oh sure, every warframe has weapons that have zero disadvantages, can regenerate their reserve of energy in a few seconds, and have a crouch mode that makes them invulnerable as well as undetectable.

:/

Every warframe has a Tenno :P

 

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

Every warframe has a Tenno :P

 

You just nulled your own point by saying that.

If you say 'any warframe', I would expect you meant 'warframe' and not 'warframe, but also operator'.

[(PSN)B2daMac]

I am really confused here.  Where is cheese coming from?  Bringing the right Frame and modding him to fit the occasion is the entire game.  If your build can't handle it then you are suppose to look at what you are doing wrong.  The only time i have been one shotted was by Kela de thaym but i didn't have Oberon's Armor Buff and Healing on.  

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

3 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

You just nulled your own point by saying that.

If you say 'any warframe', I would expect you meant 'warframe' and not 'warframe, but also operator'.

ahhh my bad.  Next time i'll also say any warframe, warframe head, warframe arms, and warframe legs too

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

ahhh my bad.  Next time i'll also say any warframe, warframe head, warframe arms, and warframe legs too

Here's what happened:

You said 'oh, if an operator can do it, then so can the Warframes :P'

Then I said (abridged) 'Well, warframes don't have the same abilities that operators do'

Then you said 'but you always have an operator :P'

You made it sound like you were treating the Warframe and Tenno as separate entities when it came to doing sorties, but now you're saying 'fooled you, I treat them as the same entity :P'

No need to be sarcastic. I already covered that.

[_Vortus_]

if talking about the electric  grineer sortie 3 from yesterday, we noticed getting insta killed a couple times.   Then a squad mate mentioned that since it was electric, and napalms were in abudance, it may be been radiation procs.    I am not sure if it is even possible for the mix of the two to create one, but with shield of shadows up, it still happened a couple times.   So I suspect that may have been the case.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

you're comparing weapon modifiers ( speciific load out)  and elemental modifiers with level 50 - 100 enemies, with level 30 gear.  modifiers have a purposes here and your thread describes one of them : challenge..  the enemy levels aren't really what's putting you down, at the end of the day there is at least 1 player in the squad who was ready to wreck everything.  Yes, people cheese missions with nice builds, but others actually put their minds to it and figure it out without niches.  A nightmare survival can be as painful as sorties.  Even an arena run can be painful with the correct set of modifiers to bring you down.  Enemies scale and get modifiers, you don't.  the world of equity doesnt exist in warframe, you go in with what you got and if its not good enough you just hav to get better at it.