Mesa Prime (Passive, Abilities, 4th Augment, and Prime Weapons discussion)

[(XBOX)Nex the Slayer]

I'm looking to forward to Mesa Prime! Eventually. Maybe. I hope. Probably never.

Mirage came out this season, and it'll probably be Zephyr next season because my luck is terrible, but I wanted to throw out some ideas for Mesa Prime in case feedback for ideas were still being considered. Topics for this discussion will be Mesa's passive, whether her abilities need work (I don't think so, personally), ideas for her Peacemaker augment, and what weapons should be included in her Prime package.

 

First up, Mesa's passive. In my opinion, the gun perks are nice and not really noticeable, but helpful enough to be a decent passive. The section I most wanted to focus on is her "No Melee" health passive, which adds 50 health to her current health if no melee weapon is equipped. This is helpful, to a degree. Depending on the mission, sometimes the only weapons Mesa will use are her secondary weapons, and only for the Peacemaker scaling. However, especially with the 'stunning' utility of Shooting Gallery, using a melee weapon to kill enemies is much faster and more energy efficient than using your secondary or PM.

Basically, hardly anyone runs without a melee weapon, and the amount of health added is so minimal, it doesn't make a good trade-off. Not to mention that there are Gunblades in the game, and one is even featured in Mesa's Market Bundle along with a Gunblade stance. So, my two suggestions are the following:

1) Make the Health added a base health increase, that scales with Health mods such as Vitality. This makes running with no melee weapon much more appealing.

2) Keep the Health bonus as 50 health added, but allow it to be applied when running no melee weapon or whenever you use a Gunblade in your melee slot.

This would make the health passive much more attractive, and bring Gunblades to the forefront for people who play Mesa, which is good since Gunblades are supposed to go with Mesa to begin with.

 

Next, do Mesa's abilities need reworks? I say no, they don't. For the purpose of providing alternate opinions, I have a friend who wants Mesa's 4th ability to increase in Range with Range mods for the Plains of Eidolon. I don't believe this would be a good change, mostly because Mesa is already one of the strongest WFs for PoE. Her 4th ability is stupid powerful, and increasing it's range would push her already powerful ability over the edge. Not to mention it could poke into your Strength if you used Overextended.

If there is an ability that needs rework, I'd suggest her 1st ability. It's the only one that is currently borderline useless. Although being useful for low level, new-to-the-game players, with the new star chart system, this becomes a moot point as you won't get Mesa until access to Eris has been unlocked. Unless Mesa is bought with plat, or a player is taxied (which I don't even know if it is possible or not), this ability loses all effectiveness once the player has access to higher damage weapons. The damage cap for Ballistic Battery is 1600 at base, and 5968 with max power strength. Nothing in the face of a weapon like Opticor or a well modded Sniper Rifle.

The biggest problem with coming up with ideas for an ability change for Mesa's 1st is that all her other abilities are so good. Adding CC is kind of pointless since her 2nd ability does it so well and her 4th kills everything. More damage is, again, not necessarily needed since her 4th rips enemies to shreds. That said, some ideas for her 1st ability:

1) Ballistic Battery keeps current damage caps, but in addition to the extra damage, will ragdoll any enemy that isn't killed by the shot, as long as the stored damage is maxed out. If an enemy is killed by Ballistic Battery with maxed out stored damage, the enemy will explode, dealing the damage cap not only to the enemy killed, but to all enemies in a 6-8 meter radius, causing a guaranteed knockdown proc. Damage decreases with distance, range is affected by power range. 1st ability Augment can be adjusted to deal one of Mesa's equipped weapon's status effects to all enemies affected by the knockdown with 100% proc chance. This ability can be toggled while in Mesa's 4th ability, to promote quick damage counter build ups and application.

This gives the ability a CC element, and allows for the quick spreading of Procs like corrosive or viral. It can also be used to put a troublesome single target enemy (like a lvl 100 Nox) in timeout for a few seconds until he can be properly dealt with. Although the extra CC isn't needed for Mesa, this ability change would give utility for those who run high range and low range Mesa.

2) When an enemy is killed by a Ballistic Battery shot, it will drop three ammo packs for whatever weapon Mesa has the lowest percentage of ammo max for (inspired by a friend and the Grunt Birthday Party Skull, lol). When an enemy is killed by a max damage shot, the enemy also has a 100% chance to drop an energy orb. The augment can be changed to a 100% chance to drop an item from the enemy's loot table when killed by a maxed out Ballistic Battery. This can apply to multiple enemies at once if the weapon has punch through and kills multiple enemies with one shot. Depending on how difficult it is to do, perhaps ammo drops can be specific to individual allies and drop the ammo types they need most as well.

This will help out allies with dwindling ammo, and promote the use of punch through mods. It can be useful for farming mods and rare drops, but only if the killing blow is from Ballistic Battery. Whether the augment is for Loot Drops or Energy Orbs would be up to personal preference.

 

Moving along, Mesa's Peacemaker augment. What to do for this... to be honest, as mentioned above, Peacemaker is perfect. I wouldn't touch the way it works, not even for an augment. It simply DOES NOT NEED ANY MORE DAMAGE. The only things you could add are ability ranges (which I am vehemently against) or mobility, which I think would work amazingly well.

For the perceptive ones in the crowd, you may be aware that Mesa has a Conclave mod that does exactly that. "Mesa's Waltz" allows you to dodge roll while Peacemaker is active for no additional energy at max rank. Although I haven't personally used it (because Conclave, haha), the theory behind it is sound. I'd have no problem with a mobility oriented augment.

Currently, a player can activate a slide before using Peacemaker, resulting in a moving wall of bullets that destroys everything as long as the slide lasts. It does look a little weird though, using the stationary stances while actually sliding. I think Mesa's augment should add two types of mobility.

1) Holding the crouch button and a direction input while Peacemaker is active (and Mesa is stationary) results in a a slide with half the momentum of a normal slide. While sliding, Mesa will use an actual slide animation, and be able to fire her guns while sliding. The ability to slide can be enhanced by equipping slide mods for more distance and speed.

2) Tapping the crouch button and a direction input while Peacemaker is active will allow Mesa to roll a normal distance and stand up straight again. As opposed to sliding, Mesa cannot shoot while rolling, but is arguably more mobile and is easier to control movement.

Alternatively, a suggestion by a friend:

1) Using Peacemaker while in the air will allow Mesa to remain suspended in midair and fire on all enemies below (kind of like a Bayonetta style thing) for the additional cost of 1 energy per second at max rank. This will make it much easier for Mesa to have the high ground in any situation, and help with those pesky enemies that stand directly under you during Peacemaker, that you can't shoot because your ability can't see them over the lip of whatever you're standing on. It also helps with enemies standing behind cover, since the higher up you are, the harder it is for enemies to hide.

The augment could be one of, or all of these suggestions blended together. I think they're both interesting ideas.

 

Lastly, for Mesa's Prime Loadout. I think a Prime version of a Gunblade would be amazing, especially with the Health Passive changes mentioned above. What do you all think? Redeemer Prime or Sarpa Prime?

As for a gun, I think it would be doing Mesa an injustice to not include a secondary weapon of some sort, since that's what she's built around. My friend and I have argued back and forth about what weapons should go with her (mainly if it should be dual wield or not), with my main conviction being an Akvasto Prime. It makes sense to me, since Vasto is a six shooter that kind of captures the whole "wild west gunslinger" theme of Mesa. Plus, there's already a base form, and it received a buff recently with the Plains update.

Alternatively, I wondered if an arguement could be made for Marelok. Marelok, while being a Grineer weapon, is a secondary that has high Impact damage. Peacemaker is 50% Impact, which means modding for Impact on Marelok would mean modding positively for Peacemaker as well. The interesting flipping mechanic on each shot makes Marelok feel like a cool gunslinger weapon, too. I personally like dual wield for Mesa, and an Akmarelok Prime would increase the fire rate (because dual wield) and also lend to Mesa's passive (+10% fire rate).

The fact that Akbolto Prime just came out would make it weird for another dual wield sidearm to come out immediately afterward, which is mostly why I think Zephyr will probably be next for Primes, but I'll get over it.

What do you all think? I covered a lot here, so feel free to comment on one topic or all of it.

Edited December 13, 2017 by (XB1)Nex the Slayer
Spell check

[Laveillon]

22 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Nex the Slayer said:

"Marelok, while being a Grineer weapon"

"and an Akmarelok Prime"

Right now, i don't have much time to read all your post, which i will eventually, but this poked me on the head.

Tenno/Orokin weapons --> Primed

Corpus/Tenno(ish?) weapons --> Vandal

Grineer/Tenno(ish?) weapons --> Wraith

 

It would be sooo good to see, that people eventually get used to this schematics. Once i am at work, and i have spare time, i will read the rest. Otherwise, my answer will follow after 8-9 hours. (sorry mate)

[Rakiss]

Akjagara prime would be really nice, combined with redeemer prime as you suggested it would give us the whole tigris family of primes (also need boltace prime to round off the boltor family of primes). 

[CY13ERPUNK]

everyone knows that if DE doesnt ship Akvasto prime before Mesa prime or with... , then there will be a riot and blood in the streets... so no one wants that

but a primed version of the Redeemer would be hella nice

[GinKenshin]

Love her 1st’s suggestions <3 

[AzureTerra]

Akmagnus prime

[BlackCoMerc]

My dream for Mesa, since we have a thread:

Passive: Same, but can equip Gunblades in Secondary slot, or Gunblades do not count as Melee weapons for passive.

Damage of Peacemakers always scales with Secondary mods.

1. Quick Shot: Mesa draws her Peacemaker pistols and fires at the 1/2/3/4 enemies closest to your aiming reticle. Shots always stagger, and stun for 0.25/0.5/0.75/1 second, but cannot Crit. If used with Peacemaker, fire us directed towards center of reticle.

Augment - Crack Shot: Overrides Quick Shot. Mess fires both Peacemakers at your current target, for a guaranteed critical hit with 100% status chance.

2. Shooting Gallery: Same as now.

3. Shatter Shield - Same as now.

Augment - Sustained Shield: Killing an enemy with a Secondary weapon or Peacemaker adds 2/3/4/5 seconds to Shatter Shield.

4. Peacemaker: Mesa draws her Exalted Peacemakers, using energy per shot instead of Ammo.

 The Crosshair is replaced with an aiming box, increased in size by Power Range (capped). Any enemy with any part of their hitbox inside the aim box will be hit when Peacemakers are fired.

Mesa has full movement during Peacemaker mode, but critical chance increases when not moving.

If Shooting Gallery is newly cast while Peacemaker is active, the next enemy fired on will receive a Lasso that will jam the weapons of nearby enemies briefly.

If Shatter Shield is cast while Peacemaker is active, damage dealt to the Shield for the next 0.25/0.5/0.75/1 seconds will be added to the next Peacemaker attack.

Augment - Trick Shooter: Reverts Peacemaker to it's current turret mode, but boosts crit and status chance, as well as energy per second drain instead of energy per shot cost.

 

I think this would make Mesa more fun to use. 

Allowingkills to prolong defense buffs decreases the need to spam those buffs, which, let's face it, Mesa REQUIRES for survival.

Full movement and Exalted Peacemakers with a generous aim box make Exalted weapons relevant in the face of very powerful secondaries. Without the generous aim box, Exalted Peacemakers are pointless; just use your weapon.

Another Peacemaker option I thought of: Mess gains a copy of your current Secondary for her off hand. While active, shots with Secondary weapons use energy instead of ammo.

Obviously, it's problematic with dual pistols.

Anyway...chime in.

Edited December 13, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

I'd say Redeemer Prime and Akmagnus prime, it's a tenno revolver and since Vasto Prime is vaulted, We wont see an Akimbo version any time soon, (Unless Vasto Prime and Akvasto Prime go into Baro's Inventory like Aklex Prime)

[Jarriaga]

12 hours ago, Laveillon said:

Right now, i don't have much time to read all your post, which i will eventually, but this poked me on the head.

Tenno/Orokin weapons --> Primed

Corpus/Tenno(ish?) weapons --> Vandal

Helios is Corpus, and there's Helios Prime instead of Helios Vandal.

As I posted some time ago: If you want to argue "Helios Prime was first and then reverse-engineered by the Corpus to make the regular Helios" then keep in mind that argument goes both ways since you can pretty much argue "Amprex Prime was first and then reverse-engineered by the Corpus to make the regular Amprex", or on this particular case that "Akmarelok Prime was reverse-engineered by the Grineer to make the regular Akmarelok". It's a two-way street. Helios Prime's existence means anything can be made into a Prime.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Jarriaga

[ZodiacShinryu]

7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Helios is Corpus, and there's Helios Prime instead of Helios Vandal.

As I posted some time ago: If you want to argue "Helios Prime was first and then reverse-engineered by the Corpus to make the regular Helios" then keep in mind that argument goes both ways since you can pretty much argue "Amprex Prime was first and then reverse-engineered by the Corpus to make the regular Amprex", or on this particular case that "Akmarelok Prime was reverse-engineered by the Grineer to make the regular Akmarelok". It's a two-way street. Helios Prime's existence means anything can be made into a Prime.

Maybe. Though as Laveillon said, this is the general model. That being said Sentinels are slightly different than weapons. Sentinels, lorewise, were found "mechanical creatures" on the edges of charted space. They were non-aggressive and "immediately" began doing helpful tasks particularly for the Tenno. Meaning that there is a base entity to Sentinels that are not any faction that may be have been more about repurposing. Corpus might have found a "Helios model" and readapted it because it had functions they wanted. Or maybe Helios simply is in our Energy/Corpus research because corpus tech worked best to revitalize the Sentinel with the information we had at the time (because I don't think I have seen a Helios even cameo style with the Corpus).

[Jarriaga]

6 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Maybe. Though as Laveillon said, this is the general model. That being said Sentinels are slightly different than weapons. Sentinels, lorewise, were found "mechanical creatures" on the edges of charted space. They were non-aggressive and "immediately" began doing helpful tasks particularly for the Tenno. Meaning that there is a base entity to Sentinels that are not any faction that may be have been more about repurposing. Corpus might have found a "Helios model" and readapted it because it had functions they wanted. Or maybe Helios simply is in our Energy/Corpus research because corpus tech worked best to revitalize the Sentinel with the information we had at the time (because I don't think I have seen a Helios even cameo style with the Corpus).

I agree with this part of your post.

 

6 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Or maybe Helios simply is in our Energy/Corpus research because corpus tech worked best to revitalize the Sentinel with the information we had at the time (because I don't think I have seen a Helios even cameo style with the Corpus).

 

I do not agree with this part of your post due to Simaris using Helios units for reconning and the Gustrag 3 having their own version of Dethcube, meaning that they can be mass-produced beyond Tenno labs.

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Jarriaga

[ZodiacShinryu]

7 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I do not agree with this part of your post due to Simaris using Helios units for reconning and the Gustrag 3 having their own version of Dethcube, meaning that they can be mass-produced beyond Tenno labs.

I didn't particularly mean they required the Tenno labs to be built/researched, only that they fell under the corpus/energy lab because corpus tech worked best on Helios models (with what the Tenno "knew" at the time of rediscovery). Helios being found in the energy lab is its only real connection to a corpus labeling when Sentinels are basically their own special faction. Honestly Sentinel variant favoritism is odd in that sense because I doubt they were "Prime" when they were found, and whether the Sentinel functionality is a product of specialized repurposing or if these models existed thus is unknown (to us).