Apostasy Prologue, what happens and what it could mean lore wise.

[Justice_Ember]

5 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

It’s unclear. We may be witnessing a mixture of flashback and present events. Ballas uncoupling the Lotus from Margulis may have happened hours or days before the Tenno got there.

I think it's clear that we were there as it happened due to the disconnection we feel when Ballas removes the cables. I believe this is "as shown". 

 

[Ferah_Frithu]

inb4 Umbra frames are a secret assortment of rogue Tenno/Warframes lead by Ballas, after he had to sacrifice the life of Margulis (for real, this time)

[Undirys]

15 hours ago, Ferah_Frithu said:

I'm pretty sure that the "Lotus" was a plan made by Ballas and Margulis all along. It was a plan to both "get rid of Margulis", as per the order of the 7 executors, but to keep Margulis and the Tenno safe/alive at the same time. Ballas couldn't simply let his loved one be killed like that, and Margulis couldn't leave the Tenno like that either.

They've erased Margulis' memory to a certain extent, much like they did with Ordis, and have used her to control, or rather pose as Natah, in order to bring down the sentient threat and control the Tenno at the same time. Why else would the Lotus suddenly decide to go with Ballas, after being disconnected from that obviously not-orokin-made pod? I think the pod contains Natah, or rather is Natah.

It was odd, though. Ballas, the one seemingly despising us the most, didn't even bother looking at us, while he was going towards the Lotus. The Lotus didn't seem to notice us either. As if we weren't really there.

Well, that's as far as my theory goes. Now my mind factory is on fire, regarding what "The Sacrifice" will be all about lol

It's a good theory! Asides from that... watching Ballas and Lotus right there got me like:

[CriticalFumble]

On the rabbit hole adventure we're doing:  

-Ballas suddenly showing up is odd.  He's obviously present in some capacity, but if he's "alive", or a ghost, or a projection of someone else's mind is unclear.  

-We're all clear that Lotus/Natah is not the same person as Margulis.  She herself claims to be a splinter of the Sentient Hunhow, which would be an exceptionally odd thing to do unless it were true - and no one has contradicted her on this.  Ballas also obviously knows that they're not the same because when she says as much he replies, "I know, but you're like her".  Unclear at this point if he's obsessed with getting his past back, is trying to redeem himself by proxy through her, or simply has an evil/selfish plan that requires someone like Margulas.  (I personally think the last is most likely, but I'd be pleasantly supprised with the other two)

-The obvious way to play with this event is to use the Lotus leaving - under her own power - to poke at the issues Tenno have with abandonment and betrayal.  Also, you know, Orokin stuff.  FINALLY.

Also, they pointedly did not show her face.  She takes the helmet off, they show the back of her head and hair, but not the face.  It seems clear that they have a face model for her but didn't want us to see it.  Not sure what to make of this.  

[SaferSaviour]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I think the Void taints the Immortality/Yuvan process or it is an imperfect process that shows degeneration/defects over multiple hosts and it would make perfect sense that the REAL reason the children were subjected to the void was to provide Orokin Elite with non-aging bodies that were immune to the Void's corruptive influence.

The children weren't 'subjected to the void' on purpose, and they weren't on the Zariman Ten Zero alone.

[schilds]

Is she really gone though? :-P

[Redfeather75]

I have only been playing a month, so there is much I don't know about lore wise. But I think what happened is that Ballas found a way to keep Margulis' consciousness intact after her execution. And in this scene he has used an advanced method of continuity/transference to bring Margulis back by using Lotus/Natah's sentient body as a vessel. That way Margulis can never die. So I'm saying it's Margulis that walks away with Ballas into the portal. Lotus is 'pushed out' during that energy blast that makes your tenno character wince in pain.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Redfeather75

[UrielColtan]

18 hours ago, KokoroWish said:

Here's hoping that it doesn't mean @[DE]Rebecca is leaving the company and so they're phasing out the Lotus.

Doubt its that.

[Vanille]

18 hours ago, KokoroWish said:

Here's hoping that it doesn't mean @[DE]Rebecca is leaving the company and so they're phasing out the Lotus.

Those exilus adapters payback :(

[UrielColtan]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I think the Void taints the Immortality/Yuvan process or it is an imperfect process that shows degeneration/defects over multiple hosts and it would make perfect sense that the REAL reason the children were subjected to the void was to provide Orokin Elite with non-aging bodies that were immune to the Void's corruptive influence.

Its possible he always looked like that, due to the Orokin leader's immortality process itself. Orokin were suggested to look different, and not all the Orokin citizenry were immortal, just the top brass, seemingly ones above Archimedean rank, or those that particularly impressed them, like Ordin, who they were gonna offer immortality to, prior to his turning on them, subsequently transferring him to the the cephalon program instead, after also making him drink Kuva though. So some part of Ordin's body may also be in tact in some way somewhere. Perhaps converted to an Unum esque form, maybe the liset is completely biomechanic in actuality, would make sense.

As for your other point, It would make sense that the kids were sent to the void for the reason you point out, if it was just kids who were sent to the void, but it wasn't.

Edited December 22, 2017 by UrielColtan

[JoJo.Granum]

13 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Go back and watch the Sacrifice teaser again, I'm pretty sure Ballas is talking to Natah/Margulis in it.

"If you could trade, would you? Surely. But all miracles require sacrifice. For their life for - yours."

If we assume he's talking to Margulis, it could mean that Ballas is trying to give Natah/Margulis a choice. Save her children or save herself.

I hope this ends up in a metaphorical love triangle conflict with Lotus at the center, where Hunhow tries to eradicate Lotus Orokin memories to turn her back into his daughter Natah and Ballas attempts to rid her of her Sentient past to bring Margulis as she was back then back to life.

Ballas vs Hunhow - I'd pay to see that.

It's also interesting to speculate what motivates Ballas. Is it true love, is it pure guilt, or a mix?

 

Ringside seats anyone? Include the popcorn? A Ballas vs Hunhow fight? I'm so wanting to see that!

[fishymandt]

9 hours ago, CaptainJLP said:

Warning Huge Speculation (I can't say this is correct):

Is anyone's head broken yet? I mean I can't even add up all the quest events in warframe and put together a half decent resolution of what on earth is happening, I mean first of all I can't even understand what Hunhow is anymore like he just feels like some illusion.. He looks exactly like the "Lotus" just burnt or something and apparently he has Sentient looking bones as seen in the second dream, something tells me Lotus (OR whatever on earth she is) is rejoining the warframe tenno kill squad or has figured the Tenno might be too overpowered? The problem here is that we don't know what Hunhow looks like, He is obviously wearing a mask like the Lotus Mask except looks like he was put on a barbeque, must be some "Sentient Cultural Thing"  to hide Facial identity with a mask. We've also never heard Hunhow Speak of Ballas, which leaves a huge gap as we aren't sure if he is the father of the Lotus / Natah as he might not know about Ballas. She now has to be called by 99 names, well actually 3: Lotus, Natah, Margulis. A theory that seems to fit this situation is Margulis taking disguise as a Sentient named Natah, Hunhow might think she is still Natah but in reality it is a culprit, Margulis, known as the Lotus, But I'm not gonna jump ahead because a lot of you would probably think, what the hell is this guy talking about. Ballas was also known to be an Orokin Executor, known for executing Margulis or at least Imprisoning her. The Grineer Queens describe themselves as also being Orokin, so Somehow they must link to Ballas (God I hate his name...). And also, thinking of it, Looking at the Cephalon Fragments again, tells us that Ballas gave Ordan Karris (Orids' Old Form) eternal life aka turned him into a cephalon, this could also be a way he decided to free Margulis from Babysitting (Just stick with the word for now) the Tenno, he added a new ally to assist the tenno so Margulis could escape Babysitting and also what I'm gonna talk about next a couple lines down. But also looking at Teshin's reference to Margulis in TWW:

Now I am forced to undo what Margulis did, to open the gates... and make you suffer. Margulis lied to you, a lie of omission. She did not cure the Zariman Children - she erased them. My only hope is that truth still lingers inside you, buried within your mind. The power and the misery of the Void.

It seemed Margulis / Lotus was deliberately trying to keep the tenno Underpowered, she must have realized what a threat they could be, and what she did was escaped at the help of........ yeah Ballas......

So far I can presume at least one of these characters would be used in the follow up quest.

Cephalon Simaris, Hunhow, Helminth, The Queens, The Man in the Wall (Plzz No), Rell (Very sure he is long gone), Teshin and possibly Stalker

Like what you said. As for what characters will be used in the next quest. I think in my opinion and what characters I would like to see in the next quest would be Stalker, Ordis, Teshin, Hunhow, Suda, and possibly the two Grineer Queens, and of course Ballas and Lotus. So yeah, basically characters that have a past or have to deal with the Orokin Era.

[JohnBbDog]

Prologue,  its just the  beginning  of the end? lol

[Azulrose]

This is my personal theory in response to all of this...

 

[JohnBbDog]

Just now, Azulrose said:

This is my personal theory in response to all of this...

 

so its like DrDisRespect lol

[Azulrose]

1 minute ago, JohnBbDog said:

so its like DrDisRespect lol

Sorry, no clue who that is >.<

[CaptainJLP]

Helminth isn't calling my tenno a Void Demon anymore, not even saying anything to her, must be something.

EDIT: Nope its just because I went into the room while my Nidus was in there, therefore he didn't call my operator a demon. Been a while since I've been in that accursed room.

Edited December 23, 2017 by CaptainJLP

[CaptainJLP]

2 hours ago, Jun.Asaki said:

Ballas vs Hunhow - I'd pay to see that

The warframe version of Batman vs Superman? Nah probably not. I'm already confused, Lotus is either Margulis in disguise or Margulis is Lotus in disguise. 

[AriaAsterial]

How does Ballus even fit into all of this? Didn't we Tenno murder all the Orokin (at least the higher ups, since the Corpus had to have come from somewhere). Perhaps Stalker is in contact with him (since he hates the tenno for betraying the orokin)? Perhaps the Sacrifice is linked to all of this somehow, and we have to go out of our ways to save space-mom.

[Azulrose]

1 minute ago, CaptainJLP said:

The warframe version of Batman vs Superman? Nah probably not. I'm already confused, Lotus is either Margulis in disguise or Margulis is Lotus in disguise. 

As i posted on my previous comment, the hat is the Lotus. Margulis was just controlled by the hat. Hunhow was after the hat cause that hat is his daughter.

[CaptainJLP]

8 minutes ago, Azulrose said:

As i posted on my previous comment, the hat is the Lotus. Margulis was just controlled by the hat. Hunhow was after the hat cause that hat is his daughter.

Ok, I guess we have to wait and see, there's like 9 quin trillion responses with no direct answer that could help us Identify anything in the situation, but whatever it is, it seems only things in our ship and relays will probably help us, It seems Margulis is turning on the tenno or something, The headcrab zombie diagram is probably the best answer we will get, but it is all speculation, If the hat is the Lotus which is probably Natah it can be presumed that Sentients can use the hats to become someone or something, maybe.

[Azulrose]

1 minute ago, CaptainJLP said:

Ok, I guess we have to wait and see, there's like 9 quin trillion responses with no direct answer that could help us Identify anything in the situation, but whatever it is, it seems only things in our ship and relays will probably help us, It seems Margulis is turning on the tenno or something, The headcrab zombie diagram is probably the best answer we will get, but it is all speculation, If the hat is the Lotus which is probably Natah it can be presumed that Sentients can use the hats to become someone or something, maybe.

The answer must always be hats!... joke aside yeah, we need more clues. Havent seen creepy ghost kid since then, i was expecting to see him more considering were no longer under space moms protection. Ive on a wild goose chase trying to find clues, been talking to ALL of the npc's so far, no news.

[Duckboy3825]

I'm just going to leave this here.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think Natah did pseudo-transference onto Margulis and forgot about it due to certain events. It could have been a willing choice made by Margulis to save the tenno, offered by Natah who had a change in heart.

It could even have happened way before the tenno rebellion which killed all the Orokin and along the way an event may have given her amnesia resulting in the Natah-Margulis combi taking up a new persona (Lotus) based on their shared memories which I can believe would be very confusing to Lotus at that point in time (imagine having bits and pieces of memories from 2 people) and a way to cope psychologically.

I also believe that the helmet is in fact Natah but more of a part of her and using it with the wires that Ballas pulled out was a way to connect to Natah's true consciousness much like how War was Hunhow's proxy in The Second Dream and when it is broken, it no longer contains Hunhow's consciousness.

Also, I believe Lotus has been using Transference all this time and we have only met her in the flesh now. Previously, at the end of The Second Dream, what we saw could be a physical manifestation and pseudo-teleportation much like how our operators work after War Within.

[Azulrose]

17 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 also believe that the helmet is in fact Natah but more of a part of her and using it with the wires that Ballas pulled out was a way to connect to Natah's true consciousness much like how War was Hunhow's proxy in The Second Dream and when it is broken, it no longer contains Hunhow's consciousness.

Yes! that's what i thought, ive been trying to figure if there is any clue left from natah, i figure shed try to contact us if she had any other body "part" beyond the hat, like, if she has any conciousness outside of it. Hunhow invaded datascapes after we destroyed War so i talked to every cephalon and looked through every related codex i could think of.

I also tried placing Rell's donda in random places through my ship's living quarters and in the "hey kiddo" spot, i was hoping it would work like a radar of sorts.. it didnt.

My research so far has proven no positive results, maybe there really is nothing to find :(