The case for More Weapons like Arca Plasmor: Over the Top Fun

[BlackCoMerc]

I play on a controller. Various reasons I wont get into here, but suffice to say "just use kb/m" isnt an option for me. And not only because of preference.

So all those videos I saw of people pulling off cool trick shots in mid air, while sliding, etc, using the accuracy of the mouse to their advantage...I have always envied them ever so slightly.

Then I got the Arca Plasmor. Which enables me to fly across choke points, eradicating entire groups. Or take down an enemy while gliding, spin my character and slash the other direction with my Orthos Prime. All because I dont have to spend precious seconds trying in vain to mimic the accuracy of a mouse, while using a controller. And this makes the game more fun. For me, as well as for others I know who use controller, both on PC and on console.

So why not do more of this? More AoE weapons, with high damage output. Maybe they dont have the range. Or if they have range, maybe they have a small magazine. Or maybe not. Maybe they exist simply because people want to have more fun pulling off stunts and trick shots in a game that actually lets you do all of that cutscene style stuff most games relegate you to simply watching.

I know some kb/m players will argue that this devalues skillful play. Careful aiming. Precise shooting. And they arent even necessarily wrong. But do you know what else devalues those things just as much? On the star map, nearly any damage based from power with AoE, of which there are no shortage. And quickly after that ceases to matter, armor scaling invalidates anything but hard, non damage based Crowd Control anyway. Is there a brief window of perfection in there where a Kullstar/Arca Plasmor-with-Range might invalidate the use of, say, a Soma Prime or Lex Prime or Vaykor Marelok? Probably there is. But its a small window. A very small window. 

Meanwhile, kb/m players will always have an advantage over mouse players who use the same weapons. Always. As a controller player, our precision rarely comes close to what they regularly achieve. And weapons like the Arca Plasmor level the playing field in that regard. And being as this is a coop game, would it really be that bad if controller players had a few more AoE weapons to choose from, for the sake of fun?

[taiiat]

functionally, sure Plasmor is pretty cool. interesting Weapons are good. and Weapons can be varied without defeating the existence of others, so everyone can win in that department. whether that happens in the game or not (often does not) is a different matter.

doesn't make Shotguns in general any more balanced though, but that's the entire Category, not any one Weapon in particular.

Edited December 26, 2017 by taiiat

[Misgenesis]

I dont think any reasonable KB/M user is against weapons that dont require precision, seems a little absurd to assume that. The problem with AoE and high damage are for example pre-nerf Tonkor and SySim.

Arca Plasmor is fun and i couldnt care less about the accuracy, it benefits my playstyle anyway.

 

 

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, Misgenesis said:

I dont think any reasonable KB/M user is against weapons that dont require precision, seems a little absurd to assume that. The problem with AoE and high damage are for example pre-nerf Tonkor and SySim.

Arca Plasmor is fun and i couldnt care less about the accuracy, it benefits my playstyle anyway.

 

 

I know that not all kb/m users are anti AoE. Some doubtless will be, but not all.

I would just like to see more fun AoE weapons. Not with huge areas of effect; i think Viscious Spread Arca is good enough there. Just enough splash damage or AoE that you can kill tightly grouped enemies or dont need to worry about Vectis/Latron levels of precision.

[Jarriaga]

I use a controller as well, and I love wide-area damage weapons because of this. I use the Lenz though. Similar (Fun!) results.

[Yperkeimenos]

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I use a controller as well, and I love wide-area damage weapons because of this. I use the Lenz though. Similar (Fun!) results.

Along with a few self inflicted stat procs and some Deaths, form Lenz's exploding arrows. Arca plasmor fits better with my play style than Lenz does and it's safer to use.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Along with a few self inflicted stat procs and some Deaths, form Lenz's exploding arrows. Arca plasmor fits better with my play style than Lenz does and it's safer to use.

I actually like to go point blank with the Lenz. I just enter operator mode and enjoy the beautiful explosion in all of its glory.

[Yperkeimenos]

5 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I actually like to go point blank with the Lenz. I just enter operator mode and enjoy the beautiful explosion in all of its glory.

Doesn't it get tedious, entering and exiting operator mode constantly and what if there is lag and you can't enter operator mode in time?

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Doesn't it get tedious, entering and exiting operator mode constantly and what if there is lag and you can't enter operator mode in time?

Not tedious at all with a controller. And even though I like going point-blank, I don't do it often since I'm going melee most of the time. As for lag, I always test it out at the beginning of the mission by getting my focus school bonus. I also stop going point blank if I notice enemies doing rubber-banding movements, which indicates lag. I don't even think about it. At this point it's reactive/instinctive.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Jarriaga

[Autongnosis]

I agree. For example the Convectrix could use a similar treatment (closed beams as it is, opened beams deal less damage but in a cone/linear AoE). Or the Cernos Prime (we're missing a ground equivalent to the fluctus anyway) etc. 

The right kind of AoE is fun. It's the wrong one (tonkor and sinmulor prenerf) that's bullS#&$. 

[Djego27]

Le 26.12.2017 à 03:48, BlackCoMerc a dit :

I know some kb/m players will argue that this devalues skillful play. Careful aiming. Precise shooting. And they arent even necessarily wrong. But do you know what else devalues those things just as much? On the star map, nearly any damage based from power with AoE, of which there are no shortage. And quickly after that ceases to matter, armor scaling invalidates anything but hard, non damage based Crowd Control anyway. Is there a brief window of perfection in there where a Kullstar/Arca Plasmor-with-Range might invalidate the use of, say, a Soma Prime or Lex Prime or Vaykor Marelok? Probably there is. But its a small window. A very small window.

It is not good to excuse one mechanic with another that is of questionable value to the game(like low level power spam) and you most likely low balling what weapons that are not to precise can do given that some of the are incredible effective against high level armor, staticor for example that basically works like the arca Plasmor as secondary weapon.

As for weapons that have wide spread/AOE there are a lot of them in the game:

Staticor, Sonicor, Boars, nearly all secondary shotguns detrons in particular, Supra, concealed explosive mod able weapons(throwing stars), Ignis, rapid fire bows with Tunderbolt like the Attica and Zuge, Lenz, Amprex, Simulors, all the explosive weapons and probably a few more I forgot.

[PrivateRiem]

Get a Steam controller.

The functions of a keyboard, the customization options that makes the Xbone controller cry itself to sleep, and the accuracy of a mouse, joystick, keypad all in one.

I'm as accurate and deadly on it than I am on my keyboard, without having to sit right in front of my computer.

Hell if you decide to do it, send me a whisper and I'll even give you my own controller setup as a start-up point if it somehow doesn't satisfy you.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 minute ago, PrivateRiem said:

Get a Steam controller.

The functions of a keyboard, the customization options that makes the Xbone controller cry itself to sleep, and the accuracy of a mouse, joystick, keypad all in one.

I'm as accurate and deadly on it than I am on my keyboard, without having to sit right in front of my computer.

Hell if you decide to do it, send me a whisper and I'll even give you my own controller setup as a start-up point if it somehow doesn't satisfy you.

Thanks for the info. Been thinking about one for a while now, actually. Always wondered how well they worked.

Will give this a serious look.

[PrivateRiem]

Just now, BlackCoMerc said:

Thanks for the info. Been thinking about one for a while now, actually. Always wondered how well they worked.

Will give this a serious look.

I originally got a XBone controller to play warframe. After 5 days, returned it for a refund, bought a Steam controller for cheaper. Not a single regret to this day.

[shoopypit]

Steam controller is comfortable.and highly customizable. Though the learning curve on that hardware is steeper than a keyboard or any other controller. For quick accuracy that's as good or better than a mouse 99 percent of users use the gyro in the co troller. It's actually quite good, very accurate and tweekable, but that learning curve is still there either way. 

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, shoopypit said:

Steam controller is comfortable.and highly customizable. Though the learning curve on that hardware is steeper than a keyboard or any other controller. For quick accuracy that's as good or better than a mouse 99 percent of users use the gyro in the co troller. It's actually quite good, very accurate and tweekable, but that learning curve is still there either way. 

Thanks for the info. Really am going to take a look at one.

[Terrornaut]

@PrivateRiem I have a steam controller that I mainly got for 2D games, but I haven't touched it because 90% of my game playing goes to WF.  What's your experience with it and WF like? Suppose I may message you about your WF profile for it also.

 

I can do some things on a controller and realize the steam controller could be pretty decent, but its hard to switch from the completely instinctual connection of a kb/m.