There is no reason to play conclave, but there should be

[-Temp0-]

21 минуту назад, Kayvaan сказал:

Lets not talk about the hilarious images that come to mind when thinking of player invasions in Warframe... 

I was talking about it's balance.

Dark souls also has pvp arenas and hosts summoning their opponents on their own free will. But that all beside the point and was never a topic.

[Kayvaan]

16 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

So here's my problem with it. No matter how much polish a game like this puts in their pvp, there are other games out there that make pvp their sole focus. I already subscribe to pvp in other games, so whatever conclave offers I'll happily miss out on. That might sound a bit harsh, but that's where I stand on pve games that sort of also offer a side dish of pvp (especially gear-based pvp).

Love me some fighting games though :D

Nearly every PvP centered game that isn't a fighting game is gear based in some fashion, so that perspective is kinda flawed in that way.

I also love fighting games! In particular, I play many fighting games with very interesting movement options. This is one big reason why I love conclave. I really do thing that even in conclave's very skeletal raw state, there is a good level of depth and a high skill ceiling to explore while having a learning curve that isn't very steep imo. I definitely feel like leaving in in this state is a waste.

Like I said I don't know what the answers are as far as what could be changed to better intergrate conclave into the core game, or even if it should be further intergrated. Could it be that improving conclave while keeping it just as isolated from PvE as it is now is the best option? You still need to play PvE to improve your warframe by getting formas, reactors/catalysts, and getting new warframes to use for PvE and conclave. Maybe improving conclave alone is enough? This is just opening the discussion to invite people to offer their constructive input. But one thing is for sure. Something has to change for those that do enjoy it because whether the negative nancies like it or not, conclave is in the game and even if only 1/3 of the player base would like it, it should be at least slightly improved over time for that 1/3, cause they also support the game as a whole.

[Frosthaven83]

26 minutes ago, Kayvaan said:

Nearly every PvP centered game that isn't a fighting game is gear based in some fashion, so that perspective is kinda flawed in that way.

It's more of a personal taste of mine, really. I played wow world PVP and then later battlegrounds when they released it and had some fun with it -- but all these years later the only PVP I'm interested in is a level playing field where it's just your wits and merit against someone else's. I've lost interest in versus modes that allow gear to induce an artificial handicap on whoever farmed less. If I'm playing against someone, I want the winner to be decided by skill, not who had the right mods to uneven the playing field. It got rather boring destroying people in battlegrounds just because my 1 was a lot stronger than theirs. I definitely won't speak for everyone here, but without that level playing field, I'll just opt-out every time.

Perfect example: I love chess. I'd hate it if people could randomly have 3 queens on the board or I had to face people that only had pawns. I don't care if you have the most amazing rewards in the history of games put behind that kind of system - I'd opt out of it and then refuse to buy the rewards out of principle.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Frosthaven83

[Midrib]

11 minutes ago, Kayvaan said:

You aren't forcing anyone to play conclave by locking rewards in it, you just make it so players who do like conclave are rewarded, and it gives more value to the game mode since most mods, ship blueprints, prime parts, etc are tradeable. So that person who hates PvP but has a ton of rare mods or plat that he acquired through trading rare mods and primes? He can just trade for the rewards he doesn't want to fight for himself. This is another reason why the rewards should be better and tradeable.

 

To preface the following, I am not being condescending at all with my next response so don't take it that way.

Yes it is hard shooting at a moving target... but have you considered that if he is running from you he is running into someone else he will not be able to properly avoid, or that he has just as difficult a time shooting at you while spamming bullet jump like a maniac? That just sounds like a frustration with the mechanics and not necessarily with the issue of how disjointed the game mode is as a whole in regards to what it offers as an alternative game mode.

 

You are forcing players who don't want to play a badly designed PVP mode in a PVE game and people who don't want to give up Plat just to satisfy the minority of players in conclave so that they feel can special, I'm not being condescending so don't take it that way. 

And if the argument is that everyone is gonna buy it for plat anyway, what is the point? again you just want Conclave players to feel special? wouldn't it feel a lot less special when everyone already bought it for plat because they were forced too? 

And on the second part, You misunderstood, never did i state if its hard or easy, nor if its about me beating him or the other way around, I said its frustrating as in its not fun, Its kind off hard not taking something condescendingly when the first you see is a glorified L2P text, but maybe I'm too frustrated that i can't see it that way.

And like i said, just a few ideas that came to me, Its really not hard to see how putting Rewards behind something isn't going to make it more played or more liked, Raids are a prime example of a good rewards behind missions that the majority don't find fun or worth the pain to go through, thats why Raids & Conclave are one of the least played game modes. and DE already gave up on Raids.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

Raids are a prime example of a good rewards behind missions that the majority don't find fun

Rewards there aren't "great". There's only one arcane that anyone can benefit from - energize and one useful for players that don't like life strike essenilally (grace). Others? Complete garbage for one reason or another (like shields not being useful at all or trickery no longer working if Ash doesn't kil the target and it dies to slash prock instead) They also aren't great because they are so rare and you need 10 to 20 to get any kind of effect from them. Even if you will do raids each day a year there's no guarantee whatsoever that you will get at leats one set of the arcanes you want that's why they're so unpopular. The rng is impossible there and there's too much trash in the reward tables.

Also 90% of the playerbase is allergic to teamwork and many hard core main some trash and feel insulted whne someone asks them to play something, they don't treat raids like something serious and would rather not do anything that play as an actual team. And a decent chunck also expects to either get carried or get spoon fed rather than watching a 5 minutes guide about it. There's many more reasons why not that many play raids than just "people don't like it" because once you know what to do it's no different than any other mission basically. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by -Temp0-

[Shiichibukai]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb AlphaPHENIX:

3 words.

Everything is TRADABLE (with some exceptions, none of which affect Conclave)

Doesnt matter, still shouldnt be. Should never be, this was never a pvp game and it really should not intefer with the main game.

[----Legacy----]

2 hours ago, Midrib said:

You are forcing players who don't want to play a badly designed PVP mode in a PVE game and people who don't want to give up Plat just to satisfy the minority of players in conclave so that they feel can special, I'm not being condescending so don't take it that way. 

Wait, so it's ok for DE to "force" people to play buggy and badly designed raids by locking arcane enhancements which can heavily impact gameplay and reward those who play them anyways with a platinum mine, but it's not ok if the players rewarded are those who enjoy pvp? 

2 hours ago, Kayvaan said:

This is just opening the discussion to invite people to offer their constructive input.

It's sad, but as you can see, you can't open a discussion against people as selfish as those who can't stand the fact of people being able to have fun doing something they dislike, let alone rewarding them for it. Said that, before more rewards are added to conclave, the game needs at least a server browser and ways to prevent people from exploiting the matchmaking system and get rewards by trivializing it.

Edited January 6, 2018 by ----Legacy----
Improved wording by changing "close minded" for "selfish"

[Frosthaven83]

1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It's sad, but as you can see, you can't open a discussion against people as close minded as those who can't stand the fact of people being able to have fun doing something they dislike, let alone rewarding them for it. Said that, before more rewards are added to conclave, the game needs at least a server browser and ways to prevent people from exploiting the matchmaking system and get rewards by trivializing it.

Just to be clear, my opinions are my own. If enough of the player base supports this kind of thing then it isn't my place to say what is or isn't allowed. I do think to dismiss everyone who holds different personal viewpoints as close-minded is a bit short-sighted at best and dangerous at worst, though.

[StinkyPygmy]

The issue isn't the rewards, the real issue is that for a vast majority of the community conclave in its current state isn't fun.

That's the crux of the matter. Most people will happily play PvP (even if only occasionally) if its fun and well built. WF PvP just ... isn't fun or enjoyable for most people. Until that changes no amount of throwing PvE relevant rewards into it is going to change that. At most people will play it till they get what they want and never touch PvP again or complain about relevant rewards being locked behind a currently irrelevant game mode.

Strong arming the community into PvP is not the way to make PvP more popular.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by StinkyPygmy
elaborated stuff

[----Legacy----]

16 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

Just to be clear, my opinions are my own. If enough of the player base supports this kind of thing then it isn't my place to say what is or isn't allowed.

And yet we're here on forums, where no matter what's the trend we still nothing but a vocal minority compared to the size of the community; you can see raids as an example since there's a lot of people here and in reddit trying to make DE take their development back despite them (DE) stating that it would be halted because their data shows that the amount of people playing them is too small to make the effort worth it.

16 minutes ago, Frosthaven83 said:

I do think to dismiss everyone who holds different personal viewpoints as close-minded is a bit short-sighted at best and dangerous at worst, though.

That was bad wording on my part. I see as close minded the people who says "warframe is a coop pve game and should stay like that" (which is funny since warframe has not turned into a pvp game despite it having a pvp mode, and will most likely never stop developing it's pve side to favor pvp improvements) the word i was looking for those who refuse to reward people for doing something they don't enjoy is selfish instead, since they are like a child who refuses to see the kid who studies every day to be rewarded for having better grades.

[Midrib]

48 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Wait, so it's ok for DE to "force" people to play buggy and badly designed raids by locking arcane enhancements which can heavily impact gameplay and reward those who play them anyways with a platinum mine, but it's not ok if the players rewarded are those who enjoy pvp? 

It's sad, but as you can see, you can't open a discussion against people as selfish as those who can't stand the fact of people being able to have fun doing something they dislike, let alone rewarding them for it. Said that, before more rewards are added to conclave, the game needs at least a server browser and ways to prevent people from exploiting the matchmaking system and get rewards by trivializing it.

I'm heavily against raids and the arcane system in general , but you are too busy making assumptions over actually asking me. and DE gave up on raids because that system DOESN'T WORK.

I know its hard for you to understand, but you are essentially asking DE to do the same thing you despise in raids, just because you want to feel special, and then you want to call people who disagree Selfish and close minded. k

Edited January 6, 2018 by Midrib

[Volinus7]

Take this with you OP. 

It can trigger a lot of people as a testament that Warframe "did" lock something behind pvp lol. 

[SharkPot]

Rather not have pvp locked stuff in a pve major game. Many of us don't play pvp not because we don't have incentive but rather we don't want to. And locking pve stuff in pvp is one of the worst ways to provide incentive. pvp is generally unbalanced, why? Some items, some combos, will always be better than another, if there is diversity then there is no balance, And in a game with these many items it's difficult to even maintain any kind of balance. And at the end it will end up just like any other gear based pvp where gear plays a more important part than skill itself.

4 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

 

Dark souls.

Dark Souls pvp ain't one bit balanced, look up Giant Dad build.

[Heckzu]

Conclave is essentially what GunZ The Duel was meant to be (minus the abilities). The reason the majority of players don't like Conclave is because the target audience for Conclave doesn't overlap with the target audience of Warframe.

Conclave is balanced, and there is nothing wrong with the movement system. The issue is that most Warframe players don't like high speed, high skill PvP. For those who don't like this type of gameplay, nothing will change their preferences.

Rather than trying to incentive PvE players to play PvP, it would be better for Conclave's progression to be fully segregated from PvE and advertised. In order to use a weapon or warframe in Conclave, you need to have earned it and ranked it up in PvE. This puts off a lot of PvP players from playing Warframe. The fact that Conclave isn't advertised anywhere by DE prevents more PvP players from playing Warframe.

[AlphaPHENIX]

Il y a 15 heures, Shichibukai88 a dit :

Doesnt matter, still shouldnt be. Should never be, this was never a pvp game and it really should not intefer with the main game.

Yes it isn't a PvP focused game. That doesn't mean separate game modes like Archwing (<which isn't PvP) and Conclave should just be forgotten and never at least slightly updated.

You want to get rid off Conclave so bad? Be ready to completely repurpose or remove Teshin...who plays important roles outside of PvP.

You want to get rid off Archwing so bad? Please do go over to DE with a higly detailed plan on how to rewrite several quests, remove mechanics and explain to players why their MR may have dropped.

If you don't get it yet, removing PvP would cause more harm then letting it stay. However not updating it is an even worse decision, long term.

Edited January 6, 2018 by AlphaPHENIX

[Kaotyke]

Conclave needs dedicated Server and player tiers if it gets popular enough. Because here are my experiences when I enter a match:

• The guy with the best ping wins.

OR

• I get raped by the guy who has played Conclave for a long time AND has a better ping than me.

I cant exactly train against latency, and if I dont train I dont get better... Lose-lose.

[Kaotyke]

DOUBLE!

Edited January 6, 2018 by Kaotyke

[AuroraSonicBoom]

I can lock +1000% base stat mods behind a complete waste of a game mode, too. That doesn't make the game mode fun or engaging. A big part of the reason why Warframe is so appealing to a big audience is because of its lack of a PvP scene and all the negative baggage that brings to any game's community.

Keep the PvP out of PvE, yes, including player invasions and dark sectors, and design those modes to be intrinsically rewarding. Then you can add fluff to reward those that already like playing that style of game anyway.

[Kayvaan]

9 hours ago, Heckzu said:

Conclave is essentially what GunZ The Duel was meant to be (minus the abilities). The reason the majority of players don't like Conclave is because the target audience for Conclave doesn't overlap with the target audience of Warframe.

Conclave is balanced, and there is nothing wrong with the movement system. The issue is that most Warframe players don't like high speed, high skill PvP. For those who don't like this type of gameplay, nothing will change their preferences.

Rather than trying to incentive PvE players to play PvP, it would be better for Conclave's progression to be fully segregated from PvE and advertised. In order to use a weapon or warframe in Conclave, you need to have earned it and ranked it up in PvE. This puts off a lot of PvP players from playing Warframe. The fact that Conclave isn't advertised anywhere by DE prevents more PvP players from playing Warframe.

See.. at least you understand that conclave isn't actually terrible like everyone claims it is (I played GunZ back in the day). I do feel that it's very possible that the rewards could not be the issue at all and it could just be shift of focus to give it more shine and some quality of life improvements like dedicated servers or at the very least, spectator mode. Would regular conclave events help in this regard, even if the best rewards were conclave specific, and the lower tier rewards were only cosmetic?

2 hours ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Yes it isn't a PvP focused game. That doesn't mean separate game modes like Archwing (<which isn't PvP) and Conclave should just be forgotten and never at least slightly updated.

You want to get rid off Conclave so bad? Be ready to to completely repurpose or remove Teshin...who plays important roles outside of PvP.

You want to get rid off Archwing so bad? Please do go over to DE with a higly detailed plan on how to rewrite several quests, remove mechanics and explain to players why their MR may have dropped.

If you don't get it yet, removing PvP would cause more harm then letting it stay. However not updating it is an even worse decision, long term.

AlphaPHENIX gets it. It can't stay the way it is, and you can't just completely remove it, especially when Teshin plays such an amazing part in the story. I feel like it would be cool for Teshin to hold regular PvP events, just give 'em some more lines and come up with an interesting team based mode of some kind or something. Enhance his involvement with his own syndicate.

 

Quote

I can lock +1000% base stat mods behind a complete waste of a game mode, too. That doesn't make the game mode fun or engaging. A big part of the reason why Warframe is so appealing to a big audience is because of its lack of a PvP scene and all the negative baggage that brings to any game's community.

Right, because PvE has enough negative baggage already 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Kayvaan

[(PSN)watt4hem]

PvE mods should not be in conclave as it is op af. But conclave mods are okay to use in PvE imo. Letting conclave mods (which are sometimes good, and people would want in PvE) like stances and such would create an insensitive, i think.

 

Also, p2p hosting does not work well on pvp.

[Koloricsi]

No, there shouldn't be a reason other than "its kinda fun", warframe is not a pvp game. 
End of discussion (jk)

Edited January 6, 2018 by Koloricsi

[Kayvaan]

I see a lot of people saying that this isn't a "pvp focused" game and/or that PvP doesn't work in this kind of game, or that the lack of PvP is the appeal of this game. I'm going to make a dangerous comparison that everyone has already heard before because several points completely debunk this. 

Digital Extremes is a company that already has a PvP pedigree, and a long one at that. You know who else does? _Bungie. You know who has a largely PvE looter/shooter instanced based MMO-ish 4-man cell, sci-fi game just like Digital Extremes? _{Bungie does.} The difference is they weren't afraid to put more time and effort into their PvP for the people that like it, and better reward the people who play that game mode. Their balance of PvE/PvP is stellar regardless how you feel about the latest debacles involving their recent monetization choices. 

EDIT: There are also many people who play that game and don't touch the PvP in that game at all, or don't very often. Many people who play PvE games with an added PvP mode avoid it because they either don't like it or aren't competitive people, or whatever their reasoning is, but those other games still have a stronger execution of the alternate PvP game mode and there isn't a reason why this game cannot do the same.

Digital Extremes seems like they're expanding their game in several different directions at once and the execution of some of their ideas suffers because of it, i.e. the aforementioned raids, most of the archwing missions, (I really wish archwing was made better and had more missions in an improved state because it's so damn cool), and conclave. Even their expansion of the mod system, which was executed pretty well, has lead to some of the most broken gimmicks and abuse of mechanics/abilities I have ever seen in a video game, but again the latter doesn't directly affect the experience of PvE players negatively it just makes for a broken metagame that isn't even put to good use because where these super powerful mod combinations would see their greatest use are the raids that no one likes. 

But in regards to this mindset that PvP doesn't work in this kind of game, or that it should be removed and has no place, or that people won't play it no matter what they do... if that is your mentality I don't see a reason you should even comment on a discussion asking how it could be improved for the people that like it? Your added negativity isn't any different from the negativity you think PvP brings to games. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Kayvaan

[Frosthaven83]

26 minutes ago, Kayvaan said:

But in regards to this mindset that PvP doesn't work in this kind of game, or that it should be removed and has no place, or that people won't play it no matter what they do... if that is your mentality I don't see a reason you should even comment on a discussion asking how it could be improved for the people that like it? Your added negativity isn't any different from the negativity you think PvP brings to games. 

 

I've bolded this part, as it indirectly includes me. My goal isn't to add negativity but rather explain the mental space players like me are in so that everyone may have a better understanding.

I've been around a long time (both in the industry and out), and I know how easy it is to forget we are all gamers who are passionate about the games we play. I've seen many times how easily something as simple as pvp vs pve can devolve into tribalism and "us vs them".

The road we are on may fork in places, but it is the same road. The voices of dissent do not come from a place of anger or hatred, but out of a love for a game we all share. Every voice is a breeze in the sky, but DE ultimately has the sails. Without disagreement and nuanced conversation, a breeze can capsize such a ship :)

[Bobtm]

19 minutes ago, Kayvaan said:

Digital Extremes is a company that already has a PvP pedigree, and a long one at that. You know who else does? _Bungie. You know who has a largely PvE looter/shooter instanced based MMO-ish 4-man cell, sci-fi game just like Digital Extremes? _{Bungie does.} The difference is they weren't afraid to put more time and effort into their PvP for the people that like it, and better reward the people who play that game mode. Their balance of PvE/PvP is stellar regardless how you feel about the latest debacles involving their recent monetization choices.

Just to punch a small hole in this little point;  Bungie managed to get the PvP balance in Destiny completely wrong and couldn't manage to figure out how to fix it at all, until many months after release.  Having done PvP games in the past well doesn't mean they'll do them well down the road when the core game's functionality is set differently.  The amount of laughably bad missteps Bungie had made with regards to Destiny's PvP were honestly something they should have been incredibly ashamed of.

Despite their background, Bungie manage to make multiple rookie-tier mistakes.  Having powers poorly balanced vs one another, having weapon falloff zones completely incorrect, having some weapons that lost vs competitors at all ranges, doing recoil completely wrong in most cases, having far, far, far too much auto-aim and bullet magnetism like Bungie has had a history with doing.

It took Bungie close to a year to finally get most of that nonsense in order.  And their PvP has exponentially fewer variables than what Warframe does.  Beyond that, the combat pacing of Destiny is insanely slow compared to Warframe's, which makes balancing a lot easier to handle.  If you quintupled player speed in Destiny, gave everyone much more powerful jump options to change direction on a dime, and removed Bungie's patented bullet magnetism, I can assure you its PvP would be 99.9% dead, and Bungie would be struggling to make anything coherent out of it.

___________________________________

Anyways to speak more to the broader topic at hand rather than the above quote;  There are fundamental issues with PvP working in Warframe.  Issues that will only be exacerbated by attempts to shoehorn players into PvP gamemodes.  Just to get the biggest elephant out of the way, lag in high-paced combat.  Suffice it to say, but having lag in a situation where split-second changes will outright determine the outcome of a given encounter will be a constant cloud over the head of the mode.  In a PvP game where the pacing is fast and constant, you simply need to have proper dedicated server support in order for matches to not become tragically unfair messes.  This is the most central issue overall, without proper support, PvP will never be able to take off in Warframe.

The second issue is much more tricky, and that has to do with the audience/playerbase overall.  When playing Warframe, take note of how the lion's share of players move around during PvE missions.  While we have a wealth of movement options avaialble that can be used in tandem with gunplay, the vast majority of players simply don't use them in tandem nor do they even try to.  At large, the playerbase will run, bullet jump, or use momentum stacking combinations, but only when moving from point A to point B.  Those majority of players, when they need/want to fire shots at stuff, will almost always stop what they're doing, be on the ground, then just hold aim and barely wobble back and forth at most or sometimes even stand still whilst firing at foes.

Most players are simply bad at run-n-gun, period.  The few that are have no special advantage during PvE situations in Warframe besides managing to look way cooler while fighting enemies, and having a survivability bonus that comes in-line with dodging incoming enemy fire should the player in question move well enough.  Over in PvP land though, being able to run-n-gun is a literal requirement in order to be successful.  Any player who can do this has an instant and massive advantage over every possible opponent who is on the other side of the fence.  This in turn creates a massive and very harsh divide among the playerbase and also creates even greater issues when looking at PvP overall.

On the side of the players who genuinely enjoy run-n-gun speed, they'll often find Conclave fairly fun aside the ping shenanigans that are ever present to rain on anyone's parade.  I'm a part of this particular small fragment of the playerbase, if we had proper server support I'd probably do a lot more conclave stuff.  However, with Warframe's majority playerbase this isn't the case.  They dislike run-n-gun, and in PvE they can essentially never combine Parkour and Gunplay, and be entirely successful in their missions by doing so.  These players will regularly call for changes to PvP in Warframe, demanding that it be slowed down "for balance" when in reality it's just purely to benefit their own chosen playstyle.

And that is essentially where we are in an overall sense.  When it comes down to it, it's quite unlikely that PvP will ever really take off in Warframe if it actually stays alike Warframe in terms of gameplay pacing and options.  Most of the unbalanced outliers and exploit tier shenanigans have been ironed out over time in Conclave, but the majority player will still feel that conclave isn't balanced because it favors a playstyle that most players simply are not accustomed to.  Even with proper server support, any PvP events that crop up in Warframe will be met with dissent from the majority playerbase because, as long as it's Warframe PvP, it will not fall in line with that majority player's playstyle and therefore won't feel fair to them.

There are only two real solutions to this, in an overall sense, ignoring the networking/server part of the equation.

• Change up PvE maps and gameplay scenarios to promote more run-n-gun over time.  To shift both playerbase focus and skill towards this type of play.
• Change up PvP gameplay so that it fundamentally locks players into a low-mobility (read; Non-Warframe) type of play.

And I think it goes without saying, but there are huge flaws in doing either of these things.  By changing PvE, it's simply going to alienate players who honest to goodness have no interest in learning to run-n-gun at all.  While I personally enjoy it, I'm largely glad that Warframe's gameplay doesn't enforce this type of stuff for the most part.  All-in-all it's simply more fun for most folks to give options for faster play, but not to force them upon players.  This way players can play at the pace they find to be enjoyable, and for the most part it works out really well.

The flaw with changing PvP's rules and pacing is also very simple.  It basically becomes a different video-game entirely, no longer being Warframe at all.  The freedom and pacing of the movement system is the biggest part of what makes Warframe feel different than the everyday shooting games that come out constantly in this day and age.  While slowing PvP down to a snail's pace would make it simpler for players to ease into it, it wouldn't make the game mode engaging at all.  In doing this, PvP would still be isolated away from the main game because it simply wouldn't be Warframe anymore.

In summation, it's highly unlikely that Warframe's PvP can ever take off in terms of popularity.  Much as I may find Conclave enjoyable from time to time, it's just not really in the cards.  At what is a fundamental level, it just simply can't add up.  Disappointing as that is to say.

[Shiichibukai]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb AlphaPHENIX:

Yes it isn't a PvP focused game. That doesn't mean separate game modes like Archwing (<which isn't PvP) and Conclave should just be forgotten and never at least slightly updated.

You want to get rid off Conclave so bad? Be ready to completely repurpose or remove Teshin...who plays important roles outside of PvP.

You want to get rid off Archwing so bad? Please do go over to DE with a higly detailed plan on how to rewrite several quests, remove mechanics and explain to players why their MR may have dropped.

If you don't get it yet, removing PvP would cause more harm then letting it stay. However not updating it is an even worse decision, long term.

You need to read again, I never said remove conclave, I said it should never intefer with the main game. Reading helps.