Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[DiabolusUrsus]

14 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

They're in this thread. From the same person. Process of elimination tells me they're the two consecutive posts after yours that are hidden from me (because at least that part works). Now, I definitely didn't further reply after the first one. Evidently, nobody did.

How did you reply to posts you can't see? That doesn't make any sense. You got 1 reply for each post; the one where you first mentioned ignoring, and the one in response to me, because it was relevant to the other poster.

You probably won't get any further replies from them.

14 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

And yet you still feel the need to try to lecture me about the correct course of action when part of it isn't working. I don't know what gave you the idea that I was dissatisfied with my course of action and needed advice, and I definitely don't know what makes you think you're the one to give it. To be exceedingly clear, I did not ask for advice, from you nor from anyone else. That's why I thought your motivation must be some sort of moral objection. Now, I can't figure out what possible reason you had for interjecting.

There is no reason to feel guilty for utilizing the ignore feature, and I never suggested otherwise. If the feature is not working correctly, then I agree that the only remaining option is to ask the person to leave you alone.

HOWEVER

Telling someone you are ignoring them while simultaneously continuing the conversation is not "asking them to leave you alone."

It serves no purpose but to generate confrontation while perpetuating the conversation you are allegedly attempting to end.

You can be as satisfied and unrepentant as you like with an ineffective solution, but you're the one who will have to deal with a continued stream of unwanted notifications when you insist on using it.

14 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

To me? It was a trifling annoyance in a thread full of them. But I actually read threads before replying. Shocker, I know. I already concluded that such a conversation wasn't going to go anywhere. You, however, have surprised me. Oh, well.

What makes you think I didn't read? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE something that wasn't immediately apparent grievously offended you, because if it's really just trifling annoyance there's no reason to get so worked up about it.

See yourself out of the conversation without being confrontational and the notifications stop. It's not complicated or difficult.

[(PSN)Hanyabal]

TL;DR

For me Operators are the worst thing ever introduced to the game, I never wanted to be a edgy/S#&$ty kid and even less be forced to an alter gameplay mode. WF greatest quality is its gameplay and the whole operator thing only subtracts you from that (only exception is mind sprint which is fun). So yeah, kill the Tenno and let the WF take over. Kill ordis too and F*** the lotus, join The Perrin Sequence and become a true mercenary.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Hanyabal said:

TL;DR

For me Operators are the worst thing ever introduced to the game, I never wanted to be a edgy/S#&$ty kid and even less be forced to an alter gameplay mode. WF greatest quality is its gameplay and the whole operator thing only subtracts you from that (only exception is mind sprint which is fun). So yeah, kill the Tenno and let the WF take over. Kill ordis too and F*** the lotus, join The Perrin Sequence and become a true mercenary.

A player after my own heart. you have echoed everything I feel, including Ordis and The Lotus.

I have been playing the game for over 2 years, I keep re-iterating that I, and no one I ever spoke too, never expressed a desire to play a human character. The decision to make a playable operator was done by DE. It wasn't done to fit the story, and my suspicions is that they made this decision because from a business and creative point of view it's easier to develop operators over Warframes. Which to me means that Operators are the future of Warframe. Either that or Operators are abandoned like Archwings have largely been and relegated to a gimmick and a time sink.

Storywise, I would have rather they have made operators adults and given them the choice to follow The Lotus or make their way on their own. After hearing all the messed up things that were done to them by the Orokin and Lotus I would think alot of people would say, "screw you guys I'm out."

I would have rather they expanded factions and syndicates and allow Players to pick a side to decide who gets to control the Solar System.

I also would love to have a quest where we "fix" ordis and it stops being so annoying.

[Koshxs]

I like operators, and I absolutely LOVE my operator... not just the way she looks but the gameplay is awesome for me! Not only that it's fun to run around doing void dash and void blast, using the amp, going invisible whenever I want... it's also useful! I can revive squad mates with no problem at high level missions with really dangerous enemies by going void mode. I can void dash into enemies to send them flying away (which comes in handy when you run out of ammo and are reloading or when you run out of energy or completely out of options when enemies are about to capture a tower in interception, etc). Void dash is also great for mobility. I sometimes prefer doing several void dashes instead of bullet jumps because it's faster and more precise. Also void dash allows me to reach higher places otherwise unreacheable with any warframe (unless you are using Nova or Titania). Also, Zenurik let's me have much more energy for operator, being able to do more simultaneous void dashes or blasts or stay in void mode longer. Oh don't forget about Energizing Dash... that's absolutely vital for me. My amp, the one I currently have which is assembled with the first 3 pieces you can get from Onkko, it can one shot mid level enemies with it's secondary fire (which is a charged shot).. and even do fair damage to a little higher level enemies like 60-80. So yeah... I LOVE OPERATORS... they are cool, fun and useful. Don't disregard them simply because you don't like them. I know they may not have the level of customization you get in BDO, or the amount of skill and power customization you get in regular mmos, etc, etc... but hey... at least you are not paying for lootboxes or locked up content or even the game itself... for real... remember Warframe is free. And if you really can't live without complaining and without accepting what is given to you to make the game better... well then... just don't press 5... 

So basically... Cool story bruh...

[FlatDevice]

I'm late to the topic, but at first (when it was just an energy-being popping out) I really did not like the operator, but the energy-manifestation felt plausible so I just got used to it.  THEN when it somehow became an actual flesh kid I was all "waiiit, this is weird, how can my operator bodily transfer through the frame, it makes no sense" and I really, REALLY did not like the operator then.  Additionally, I hated the way the operator looked, hated the rudimentary method provided to design one's operator (just melding two faces together?  really???), felt mystified by the focus system but still loved the kid's story.  

Now though?  I actually kind of like the operator.  I somehow managed to make a decent-looking one, and she's grown on me.  I guess I'm, once again, just used to it. 

Edit: And the operator combat/focus system is getting more interesting to me as I unlock more of it and fill up those dots.  It's cool how, when things start going pants-on-head wrong in battle, I can zoom her out and clean up the problem.  It's great.  :)

Edit 2: I still hate Ordis though; I will have his dumb cube face muted for. ever.

Edited January 31, 2018 by FlatDevice

[DreamsmithJane]

13 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

What makes you think I didn't read? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE something that wasn't immediately apparent grievously offended you, because if it's really just trifling annoyance there's no reason to get so worked up about it.

See yourself out of the conversation without being confrontational and the notifications stop. It's not complicated or difficult.

I didn't say that. I was referring to the tendency of some people to reply to the title of a post without even reading the OP, let alone the rest of the replies. That was to explain how I arrived at the position I held so quickly. And I didn't get worked up. I wrote one brief paragraph explaining that no, I meant what I said, and I was not about to have that conversation. Lest you forget, this is a publicly visible forum, and when someone's public criticism receives outside support, it behooves me to at least clarify my position. Otherwise, why am I writing here at all? I figured I could explain myself, opt out of further discussion (at least with that individual), and call attention to an apparent glitch in the forums with relatively little effort. Evidently not.

Then you proceeded to attack my character based on what, until that point, really hadn't been a big deal. And when I called you on it, you pretended you weren't saying I did anything wrong (after calling me "tactless", really?), and then doubled down and tried to be condescending about it. And you are still doing that, by being preachy about how doing things your way is "not complicated", when in fact it's not reasonable, either. It was none of your business, and you were tactless.

[DiabolusUrsus]

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I didn't say that. I was referring to the tendency of some people to reply to the title of a post without even reading the OP, let alone the rest of the replies. That was to explain how I arrived at the position I held so quickly. 

So lemme get this straight... Because you annoyed yourself by reading a thread full of people you disagree with, you saw fit to take that annoyance out on one person who had the audacity to reply civilly to your post?

You are aware that posting elicits response, no?

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

AndI didn't get worked up. I wrote one brief paragraph explaining that no, I meant what I said, and I was not about to have that conversation.

Because telling someone you are ignoring them while simultaneously inviting continued response through debate and then acting like you are somehow being victimized by a flood of unwanted notifications when you're actually talking about one response isn't getting worked up.

Your narrative doesn't really hold up.

If, as you say, you were already ignoring Stabby... And if, as you say, ignoring does properly hide posts in spite of not hiding notifications... How did you reply to that first post?

Because if you hadn't done that a conversation wouldn't have started in the first place.

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Lest you forget, this is a publicly visible forum, and when someone's public criticism receives outside support, it behooves me to at least clarify my position. Otherwise, why am I writing here at all?

So you're aware that you're posting in a public forum and inviting response.

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I figured I could explain myself, opt out of further discussion (at least with that individual), and call attention to an apparent glitch in the forums with relatively little effort. Evidently not.

And you did that in 100% the worst possible way, because as I pointed out that sort of stuff is handled discreetly for a reason. You don't get to be confrontational and then be affronted when you get a confrontation.

You know how best to identify forum glitches? In the bug-related subforum dedicated directly to that sort of problem.

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Then you proceeded to attack my character based on what, until that point, really hadn't been a big deal. 

According to you. I didn't attack your character; I attacked your behavior because it was entirely unwarranted and inappropriate, and based off of my previous knowledge of your qualities as a poster I fully expected you to have not done so deliberately.

My mistake.

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Andwhen I called you on it, you pretended you weren't saying I did anything wrong (after calling me "tactless", really?), 

Wait... So you called me out on calling you out? Somehow this does not upset me.

Also pretty sure I wrote "It" was tactless, not "you" were tactless. Y'know, because I was still hoping it was a mistake.

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

andthen doubled down and tried to be condescending about it. And you are still doing that, by being preachy

Hi, Pot! I'm kettle!

28 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

aboutut how doing things your way is "not complicated", when in fact it's not reasonable, either. It was none of your business, and you were tactless.

Remember that bit about this being a public forum? Remember that bit about how anyone can respond to anything?

Yeah, "none of my business" doesn't really hold any water.

It is 100% reasonable to suggest that if you want a conversation to end, being confrontational is NOT how you do it.

It is 100% reasonable to state that nobody is twisting your arm and forcing you to participate in a conversation you want to abstain from.

It is 100% reasonable to hold people accountable for what they say publicly, and pointing out misbehavior cannot be tactless.

Here's another suggestion: handle it through PM next time! It would prevent these sorts of spinoff squabbles.

All that said, it really wasn't my intention to incense you so thoroughly. So, I apologize for upsetting you. How about we lower our fists and let this go to rest?

[Mach25]

Yeah, I don't care for operators either, not in their current form - I would have preferred them to be adults and supporting characters in the background, kind of like Gundam or mech pilots in games.

Corpus Crewman:"What's that noise?"

Ash Pilot (your operator):"Death approaching!" *Anime music plays*

I assumed operators were going to be like when you need to go full-on Super Saiyan because you're outmatched 100:1 against infested trying to take the team out or something along those lines. What we actually have, I'm not particularly fond of. But hey, whatever. I suppose all we can do is simply see what the future holds.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Mach25

[DreamsmithJane]

3 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

It is 100% reasonable to hold people accountable for what they say publicly, and pointing out misbehavior cannot be tactless.

But you didn't. The idea that violating your sensibilities in a way that doesn't even involve you somehow constitutes misbehaviour is not reasonable. And this is especially revealing, because when I express disinterest in your morals, you claim to be merely advising me that you think my actions were ineffective. But "misbehavior"? That's another matter. And you're lying. In fact, that entire post is riddled with dishonesty. Not only innaccuracies, but half-truths and contradictions, right down to the last word. And that is where I draw the line. You began this with your accusation, and you persist, even as you ask me to stop. But I will. Your slander no longer concerns me. I won't continue to humour someone who can't be honest.

Look, I'm stepping away from the conversation, and I'm saying so directly after responding. How tactless of me. How inadvisable. What misbehavior! Excuse me while I roll my eyes. Have whatever last word you wish. I'm done.

[DiabolusUrsus]

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

But you didn't. The idea that violating your sensibilities in a way that doesn't even involve you somehow constitutes misbehaviour is not reasonable. 

So, according to you people should refrain from speaking out about things they see happen to other people until such time as those things affect them directly... lest they risk offending the person they are speaking out against. No, thanks.

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Andthis is especially revealing, because when I express disinterest in your morals, you claim to be merely advising me that you think my actions were ineffective. But "misbehavior"? That's another matter. 

Perceptions can change. 2 posts into this debacle "misbehavior" would not have been my word of choice.

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Andyou're lying. In fact, that entire post is riddled with dishonesty. Not only innaccuracies, but half-truths and contradictions, right down to the last word. 

Uh... Ok, if you say so. So are those posts invisible or not?

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Andthat is where I draw the line. You began this with your accusation, and you persist, even as you ask me to stop. But I will. Your slander no longer concerns me. I won't continue to humour someone who can't be honest.

Really harping on the "lying" bit, aren't you?

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Look, I'm stepping away from the conversation, and I'm saying so directly after responding. 

I've offered you multiple effective methods of preventing further discussion, and I sincerely hope your distaste for my tone doesn't prevent you from understanding them and putting them to use in the future.

Your proof is in the posts; disproportionately rebuking the first poster led to how many extra notifications? Coulda stopped at 1.

5 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Howtactless of me. How inadvisable. What misbehavior! Excuse me while I roll my eyes. Have whatever last word you wish. I'm done.

Roll your eyes all you like, and considering the conversation we just had, I certainly wouldn't fault you for discarding tact. But there's a difference between engaging in open argument and someone simply participating in a conversation you sowed the seeds for.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

23 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I could imagine the player being allowed to choose to forego their Warframe in order to "unleash" their Tenno powers. The downside would be fragility and something like a shortened bleedout timer.

Then they could create a complete set of 4 powers for each school that progressively unlock as you invest more into the school, or something.

They could even revamp the way Specters work to be our Operator summoning 4 Warframe Loadouts like an advanced Air Support Drop that allows the Warframes to operate independently as current Specters do; but also allow Operators to perform Transference via Golden Maw -way letting us switch Warframes mid combat.

(Sort of similar to DCUO Armory Loadouts)

 

Maybe there will be a 6th or Master School that allows for "Tenno Unleashed" like you described.

•Perhaps requiring all Current 5 Focus schools to have all nodes unlocked and upgraded (To pseduo force reward Focus progression)

With 6th (Master)school allowing for Tenno being something like each node adding the sec of Invincibility per rank up with unlimited Rank up (Basically once over the Focus pool limit: increasing the Focus pool would actually be adding half a sec of Operator Invincibility)

Seems overpowered, but literally Rell could not be hurt in Chains of Harrow- So it shows our Operators are far from meeting their potential.

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

They could even revamp the way Specters work to be our Operator summoning 4 Warframe Loadouts like an advanced Air Support Drop that allows the Warframes to operate independently as current Specters do; but also allow Operators to perform Transference via Golden Maw -way letting us switch Warframes mid combat.

(Sort of similar to DCUO Armory Loadouts)

This seems really interesting, but how would it be handled in group play? Would there really be 16 playable Warframes running around?

I don't wanna think about the exploit strats that would enable, and this honestly sounds like something better adapted to solo.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Maybe there will be a 6th or Master School that allows for "Tenno Unleashed" like you described.

•Perhaps requiring all Current 5 Focus schools to have all nodes unlocked and upgraded (To pseduo force reward Focus progression)

Ugh. Not until Convergence is scrapped and default rates adjusted, please.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

With 6th (Master)school allowing for Tenno being something like each node adding the sec of Invincibility per rank up with unlimited Rank up (Basically once over the Focus pool limit: increasing the Focus pool would actually be adding half a sec of Operator Invincibility)

Seems overpowered, but literally Rell could not be hurt in Chains of Harrow- So it shows our Operators are far from meeting their potential.

Story and gameplay segregation seems appropriate in this instance, IMO.

[StabbyTentacles]

On 1/15/2018 at 11:42 AM, StabbyTentacles said:

Eljureo, I too have all waybounds unlocked. I have hunted Eidolons, Kuva, played my maxed out operator. Tried not to find it graceless, needless and redundant. But alas I have failed; this is my personal assessment. I can see how players can 'like' the operator. What I can not see why we all have to use, and 'like' the operator.

I'm not saying you personally are pushing this agenda, but I am seeing it/observing this and find it bizarre.

If people enjoy the operator I wish them nothing but joy.  It's notable that many of those same players seem unable to return this courtesy. To the great many players who wish not to embrace the operator. Even when these players explain at length the why's and how's that may have brought them to their belief/position.

Furthermore...

In relation to gameplay.

Operator's break a core Warframe element.  The best tool for the job.

a weapon: cannon, firearm, gun, knife, machete, machine gun, missile, nerve gas, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, sword, arbalest, archery, assegai, axe, backsword, ballista, banderilla, bat, baton, battle-ax, bayonet, bazooka, blade, blowgun, boomerang, catapult, cleaver, club, crossbow, cudgel, cutlass, dagger, dart, dirk, flamethrower, harpoon, hatchet, howitzer, lance, musket, saber, scythe, slingshot, spear, spike, stiletto, switchblade, bow and arrow, brass knuckles... 

Is now a blade-gun-bazooka!

Because the Operator allows players to be Loki/Ivara/Limbo on all frames, and the whole Eidolon go void, take no damage system. A fundamental/necessary game element is lost. Apparently for no better reason than to push/persuade players to use Operator's.

Idea: Look Operator's are not only, the only way you can farm Kuva. They will also help you out by making you invisible Void Mode will turn the Operator incorporeal and thus invisible to enemies, as well as various sensors, while also protecting them from any incoming damage, including fall damage and status. Void Dash will also allow you to bypass Corpus laser barriers, or Grineer energy barriers.

Of course many players see this as a good thing… Which was kind of the point.

Take the primary focus off Warframes, and put that focus onto Operator’s. 

 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

9 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

This seems really interesting, but how would it be handled in group play? Would there really be 16 playable Warframes running around?

I don't wanna think about the exploit strats that would enable, and this honestly sounds like something better adapted to solo.

Ugh. Not until Convergence is scrapped and default rates adjusted, please.

Story and gameplay segregation seems appropriate in this instance, IMO.

Strongly agree, I have no idea how DE would balance the proposed ability to have multiple Warframe Specters available for Control, nor using a 'Rell Ajin Flood' mode/ability.

Agreed that rates need adjustment. (Had an earlier response of wanting Mastery Rank to be applied as an affinity multiplier.)

I feel DE could stay from traditional games and let us be as powerful or more powerful than what is seen in Story Quests or Cutscenes.

• Well I should be honest: I want the Cinematic scenes to represent what I as a player can perform in game ... not tease me of something that will never happen

[DiabolusUrsus]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Agreed that rates need adjustment. (Had an earlier response of wanting Mastery Rank to be applied as an affinity multiplier.)

That's an awesome idea, actually. Full support!

15 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

I feel DE could stay from traditional games and let us be as powerful or more powerful than what is seen in Story Quests or Cutscenes.

They'd run the risk of having the game get very stale very fast. You ever played gag difficulty modes that make you super powerful in other games? They get old VERY fast. Such power would have to be appropriately limited, and given the CC spam that is already so prevalent I doubt DE could pull that off.

15 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

• Well I should be honest: I want the Cinematic scenes to represent what I as a player can perform in game ... not tease me of something that will never happen

I agree, but I'm willing to give them a pass in most cases. What I really wish we had more control over is cutscene dialogue.

54 minutes ago, Bladefeather said:

I really didn't want to say anything so as to not get involved in whatever this is, but this is just getting silly.  Can you at least make another thread for it or something?  I was enjoying reading this thread before some people started completely derailing it.  It's getting annoying.

I apologize for my hand in perpetuating it despite my better judgment.

[Me.Greedy]

i like operator amps, i wish i could move faster overall, they just seem so stiff.

but i prefer the game with the operator as opposed to when we didn't have it.

[Shockwave-]

No. I hate everything about them. the 2nd dream was the jump the shark moment for WF in my opinion. I still ignore their existence except when DE forces me to use to them. Otherwise I pretend, like did before 2nd dream, that I am my warframe, inside the armor, not some dopey kid sitting in the back of the my liset. I honestly wish DE removed them. "merged" then with warframe so they were always in the frame, no getting out, no focus powers, no operator mode at all. The more they force operator play on us, the less I play warframe. My playtime dropped off after 2nd dream and more after POE.

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

The more they force operator play on us, the less I play warframe. My playtime dropped off after 2nd dream and more after POE.

It's interesting you should mention that. I have a Ghost Clan with 5 members aside from myself...4 have pretty much left the game due to the heavy focus on Operators (and resulting grind) in the PoE update.

[DiabolusUrsus]

4 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

No. I hate everything about them. the 2nd dream was the jump the shark moment for WF in my opinion. I still ignore their existence except when DE forces me to use to them. Otherwise I pretend, like did before 2nd dream, that I am my warframe, inside the armor, not some dopey kid sitting in the back of the my liset. I honestly wish DE removed them. "merged" then with warframe so they were always in the frame, no getting out, no focus powers, no operator mode at all. The more they force operator play on us, the less I play warframe. My playtime dropped off after 2nd dream and more after POE.

I like to think that if DE were dead-set on some sort of kiddo aspect to it, it would have been more horrific (and interesting) to have it be that the kids were left horribly disfigured and maimed by their Zariman trip and that the Warframes were sort of life support. Think Darth Vader or something.

It would still effectively explain some of the impossibly-proportioned limbs, etc.

[Futurehero]

On 1/30/2018 at 7:18 PM, Futurehero said:

I'm gonna do some more effort posting here, maybe to explain in a little more detail what I'd personally want out of the operator system. 

So let's elaborate a little more on amps....

I found it ironically funny that a lot of people in this thread are dreading Warframe becoming "Operator Frame", with tenno gameplay shoved down our throats and taking priority over everything else........... when I have the complete opposite fear.   

I really hope this doesn't offend people, but I'm really worried that "The Operator" will be the first thing DE abandon if they ever run into another Specters of the Rail/ The War Within crunch, with having to keep so many balls in the air at the same time.   Maybe this is a mean-spirited thing  to say, but objectively   they  have a record of not iterating on features enough. There are a lot of examples, but let's take this one:

In one of my previous posts  I made this statement :

Quote

-"Amps" make no sense, and are essentially "Archwing Weapons" 2.0 

The last Archgun released was the Cyngas, released aaaaaaaaaaaaalllll the way back in Specters of the Rail, on July 8, 2016.

Initially, Archwing shipped with only 2 weapons, one of which was your starter. From October 24 2014 till present day there are only 9 Arch-guns with one being a variant.

Arch-guns being "a thing" officially stopped happening in POE, when DE allowed us to FINALLY use our regular warframe weapons in Archwing. They realized that Arch-Guns were largely pointless .

I don't know how many of you remember this, but initially, they were also a b****h to get. I farmed low level Exterminates for 4-5 days to complete my Velocitus and it's now gathering dust since it's not really needed anymore, and even if it is, it's extremely easy to get one nowadays because Syndicates... 

So with all that being said, is it really that weird that i'm skeptical about Operator Amps?  Sure you can say "it's too early to tell" , but then again, I got bashed to hell and back when I criticized archguns all the way back in 2016 for being boring and unimaginative  and since then we got a total of 0 new archwing weapons and the last one was a reskinned Burston.

I'd love it if DE were to dedicate resources into making a lot more amp parts... and maybe even each open world would have its own special amp components so you could mix and match corpus tech with quill tech etc.  I'd love it if braces were more than just  "+12% crit chance", because for something that makes up ONE THIRD of your gun, 12% crit chance is just extremely disappointing to grind for. 

But I'm weary at just how much attention these weapons will actually get in the long run.....

And the real killer here, is that Archwing content is mostly skip-able and has 0 impact on the story. Your tenno is not.  When you say something like "This is who you are", that sets up a lot of expectations, and I can't help but think that "Scaffold Prime" will never be a thing. .....

EDIT: For clarification , when I said in my OP "Let me wield my secondary, amps are bad" ,the above is really what i'm referring to.  Ideally, I'd like for amps to be a viable alternative to warframe sidearms, but realistically, I'd be fine with  "cutting  out the middle man" and just letting me use my Arca Scisco, because that's what eventually ended up happening in POE. 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Futurehero

[BiancaRoughfin]

On 09/01/2018 at 8:04 AM, Futurehero said:

And with ALL of that, Operators aren't fun. I'm sorry they are just not. 

Sorry if i have fun with mine. I dont play it 100% of the mission but use it more often than my Warframe Skills to keep my team alive and running since i use Vazarin. Its so gratifying for me when the team is having trouble to dash through them, see their health bars gray from invulnerability and filling up.

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

1 hour ago, Futurehero said:

So let's elaborate a little more on amps....

I found it ironically funny that a lot of people in this thread are dreading Warframe becoming "Operator Frame", with tenno gameplay shoved down our throats and taking priority over everything else........... when I have the complete opposite fear.   

I really hope this doesn't offend people, but I'm really worried that "The Operator" will be the first thing DE abandon if they ever run into another Specters of the Rail/ The War Within crunch, with having to keep so many balls in the air at the same time.   Maybe this is a mean-spirited thing  to say, but objectively   they  have a record of not iterating on features enough. There are a lot of examples, but let's take this one:

In one of my previous posts  I made this statement :

The last Archgun released was the Cyngas, released aaaaaaaaaaaaalllll the way back in Specters of the Rail, on July 8, 2016.

Initially, Archwing shipped with only 2 weapons, one of which was your starter. From October 24 2014 till present day there are only 9 Arch-guns with one being a variant.

Arch-guns being "a thing" officially stopped happening in POE, when DE allowed us to FINALLY use our regular warframe weapons in Archwing. They realized that Arch-Guns were largely pointless .

I don't know how many of you remember this, but initially, they were also a b****h to get. I farmed low level Exterminates for 4-5 days to complete my Velocitus and it's now gathering dust since it's not really needed anymore, and even if it is, it's extremely easy to get one nowadays because Syndicates... 

So with all that being said, is it really that weird that i'm skeptical about Operator Amps?  Sure you can say "it's too early to tell" , but then again, I got bashed to hell and back when I criticized archguns all the way back in 2016 for being boring and unimaginative  and since then we got a total of 0 new archwing weapons and the last one was a reskinned Burston.

I'd love it if DE were to dedicate resources into making a lot more amp parts... and maybe even each open world would have its own special amp components so you could mix and match corpus tech with quill tech etc.  I'd love it if braces were more than just  "+12% crit chance", because for something that makes up ONE THIRD of your gun, 12% crit chance is just extremely disappointing to grind for. 

But I'm weary at just how much attention these weapons will actually get in the long run.....

And the real killer here, is that Archwing content is mostly skip-able and has 0 impact on the story. Your tenno is not.  When you say something like "This is who you are", that sets up a lot of expectations, and I can't help but think that "Scaffold Prime" will never be a thing. .....

EDIT: For clarification , when I said in my OP "Let me wield my secondary, amps are bad" ,the above is really what i'm referring to.  Ideally, I'd like for amps to be a viable alternative to warframe sidearms, but realistically, I'd be fine with  "cutting  out the middle man" and just letting me use my Arca Scisco, because that's what eventually ended up happening in POE. 

 

I too have this fear. I was one of the few Archwing hopefuls and defended it long after most people wrote it off. But like you I realized that with POE archwings are essentially dead as a game mode. So there is a real possibility that operators and amps never get developed after this point.

But I don't think that will be the case. Unlike Archwing, Operators are now placed as a core aspect of the story and the game. YOU are the Operator, you were never a Warframe, you were merely controlling it. And from a logical objective point of view, knowing what I know about software development, replacing Warframes with Operators would make creating content much easier. Replacing weapons with Amps and Zaws would as well.

Look at it this way, with the change to Operator/amps/zaws, DE gets to reboot whole aspects of the content and start from scratch with a whole new system. This keeps the teams small and the information and systems small and manageable. From a business point of view and looking at how they have developed the game so far, I can see them going down this route as the game is a constantly evolving and ever changing project.

[Futurehero]

3 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Sorry if i have fun with mine. I dont play it 100% of the mission but use it more often than my Warframe Skills to keep my team alive and running since i use Vazarin. Its so gratifying for me when the team is having trouble to dash through them, see their health bars gray from invulnerability and filling up.

This is a a good a post as any to serve as a jumping off point for my big "rant" against focus , so here goes:

Why focus ultimately failed 

After mulling over my personal experience with focus any reading over what a lot of people posted here, I've come to a concrete opinion on why focus wasn't enjoyable for me.

By DE's own words, focus started out as a way to syphon off all that leftover , "wasted" affinity earned by maxed out forma'd weapons. The way I understood it, players felt "strange" about playing with their maxed out gear in non-end game situation, as it felt as if they were throwing away all that affinity that might've been earned by having a non-30 weapon equipped.  The idea was to have some sort of extra upgrade system where this affinity could pool , and provide some visible, but not significant buffs, so that no tenno will ever feel "wrong" about enjoying the weapon they put multiple forma in and  a complete build. 

The problem arises when said upgrade system ended up doubling as the main way to upgrade your operator. 

Here's the thing: Even though I personally don't enjoy operator gameplay, even when I have a fair share of nodes unlocked, I 100% admit that not everyone thinks this way, and as @BiancaRoughfin said, using all these abilities can be both fun and useful . However, your starting operator is crap, and I think i'm not in the minority there. ~250 hp will get you shrekt in a kuva syphon (let alone flood) if a Hyeka Master so much as glances at you. Having to constantly crouch for invincibility, constantly "respawn", constantly get put down by all the (suddenly quite lethal) chip damage by stray shots is simply too frustrating for the "power fantasy" game that Warframe is supposed to be. Even way back when in 2014, when I was killing low level grineer lancers with charge attacks from my mk1 skana I didn't feel that weak.  Same applies for your void beam, your slow as molasses movement speed, your lack of any parkour.

The fact that so many of focus's nodes concentrate on making your operator functional, let alone enjoyable is what ultimately kills the system. 

If DE wanted to make a long term  affinity sink for players, tying the really cool fun stuff your operator can do to it is the worst thing they could've done.  If stuff like "some percent extra physical damage", "some more combo timer", and "free revives" were all that focus contained, most people wouldn't shed a tear about the ridiculous grind costs as long as the system was properly telegraphed as being a long term time sink.  The very same way NOBODY is btchn and moaning about the MR bonuses that come after you unlock all the gear. Yeah, 5k extra earnable affinity per day won't make or break your gameplay, neither will 15 extra initial  mod points to put on your gun.

For an even better example , look at something like Badass Rank in Borderlands 2. Every time you complete some minor achievement or milestone, you gain a badass token. These can get your small incremental bonuses like some reload speed, a tiny bit more damage etc. Over time they add up, and you can't ONLY choose one, so they stabilize. That's what this system should've ultimately been. 20% Extra crit chance accumulated over several months would be a nice touch, but never something you feel would have to obtain to make your builds work.

 As for the progression of your operator, a separate, "way of the Tenno" skill tree should be available with operator only bonues.  Since your baseline operator is so craptastic ,let's make the whole system work on tiers. Your starting nodes take notice of your operator's weakness, and are unlocked by warframe gameplay; The essentials like "more hp", "more armor", "more void energy regen". Then, as you cilmb to the higher tiers, they focus more and more on operator gameplay.  Want a harder hitting void blast? Disable x enemies with your void blast etc. This would serve to "coax players out of their shells" by encouraging player to take advantage of their Tenno's powers, AND it makes it so that each player focuses on whatever aspect they enjoy. Nobody's going to "grind" towards an upgraded void blast if they don't use it much to begin with.  Lastly, this gives DE some leeway into designing operator encounters since now, because you can make sure EVERYONE has at least some of the basic stats your operator needs, you don't have to design encounters for 250 hp operators, and you give even players who dislike the operator some form of progression through simply playing the game. Maybe later you can tack on more nodes to this tier system as needed.

 

 

EDIT:  So , as a TL;DR, focus failed because of the massive  difference between developer and player expectation out of the system. 

DE wanted this to be a long term goal you passively work on so you don't feel bad about using your maxed gear.

The players saw things like "Zenrik energy void dash" ,as well as essential stats for your operator and understandably wanted it ASAP, hence the many ,many opinions on it being a "forced grind".

These should've been two different systems all along. They aren't , hence where we are now.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Futurehero

[Educated_Beast]

On 2/2/2018 at 4:11 PM, Futurehero said:

... focus failed because of the massive  difference between developer and player expectation out of the system. 

DE wanted this to be a long term goal you passively work on so you don't feel bad about using your maxed gear.

The players saw things like "Zenrik energy void dash" ,as well as essential stats for your operator and understandably wanted it ASAP, hence the many ,many opinions on it being a "forced grind".

These should've been two different systems all along. They aren't , hence where we are now.

I agree with you here.  I've been playing 3+ years now and was able to unlock all waybounds with recent shared focus changes.  This immediately made most schools playable for me and was able to try and have fun immediately (as well as find many useful utility features, even decent damage on some punch thru amps).

 

My outlook may be very different if I was still grinding out waybounds.  

 

To add to your post, convergence orbs need to be deleted.  They are so situational.  You can get an orb and wave ends, or mobile defense target changes and enemies stop spawning, or enemies move to other side map in survival.  The results are not consistent whatsoever, cause you to abandon objective, spawn close to a hallway hero on other side of map, etc.  

 

Orbs are not a short 45 second boost to focus, THEY ARE THE ONLY WAY TO GAIN FOCUS.  without orbs, you'll gain maybe 1000 focus in a 1 hour survival.  This needs to change!

 

We need a focus system that allows decent gains without using the meta farm spots.  We are forced into these builds and farm locations because focus grind is to slow.  The game should not be balanced around these spots, we already have a cap!  Here are some suggestions:

 

1. Remove orbs and boost base focus gain by x6.25.  If you want to keep orb mechanics, make it a very minor boost for 1.25 over 2 minutes (total boost x8.125).  

 

2. Allow focus to be gained on weapons prior to rank 30.  In other words, any weapon can gain focus as soon as install a lens.  Give players a x1.25 boost if thier weapon is max level to encourage this play style but not require it.  

 

3. Operator kills (not shared affinity) should provide focus without a lens.  Installing amp on lens should multiply this.  

 

Max focus daily cap should be achievable in regular game play in a 1 hour session (with multiple edilon lens) on pretty much any map.  This is currently not possible.  To max, you either need to play for 10+ hours or have a special build on a special farm map.

 

All this does is make players hate operators because none of thier utility shows and the grind is not reasonable for a new player.