There should be less affinity required to max item after using forma at it

[Ldezzer]

Recently, i decided that i'll try to upgrade my ash by adding 4 formas to him, but the affinity grind that awaits made me give up on the first forma.

I want to play the game, not sit at hydron/bere leeching off someone - i may accept to do this to max weapon for the first time, but repeating same grind 4 more times is beyond my patience.

If we got mastery already, why not make it faster to max frame to not die of mindless repeating affinity grind? (Affinity grind is the most boring nearly infinite grind ingame and it already takes alot more time than focus and rivens combined)

[BiancaRoughfin]

I see no actual reason for it to cost less affinity to rank a Warframe/Weapon back to lvl 30. Nothing 1 or 2 Hydron runs up to wave 15~20 wont max out.

[Entharias]

Then there is me, still hoping for formas to add small stats to weapon/frames with each forma (10hp/shields etcetc, capped at some amount of formas),  just to give players a reason to forma more :(

Edited January 17, 2018 by Nakrast

[BiancaRoughfin]

13 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

Then there is me, still hoping for formas to add small stats to weapon/frames with each forma (10hp/shields etcetc, capped at some amount of formas),  just to give players a reason to forma more :(

Not going to happen, like, ever. It would make any weapon a possible power creep.

You know there are players who have formed their Lato Vandal/Prime and Braton Vandals more than 100 times just for the pleasure of doing it? Imagine the damage output of these weapons if an update that made Forma increase stats was made.

Edited January 17, 2018 by BiancaRoughfin

[MBaldelli]

19 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I see no actual reason for it to cost less affinity to rank a Warframe/Weapon back to lvl 30. Nothing 1 or 2 Hydron runs up to wave 15~20 wont max out.

I understand where he's going with this...  It's to prevent grinding-burnout.  The fact is that there is no MR affinity gained from a polarizing, and nothing but more grind.  It seems to be more work with no gain other than to play end-level missions.  

While I appreciate the thought, I fear at the present time, we'll never see this being changed.  

1 minute ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Not going to happen, like, ever. It would make any weapon a possible power creep.

There is already power creep in the game.  Has been since it was introduced.

Edited January 17, 2018 by MBaldelli
added response.

[Ldezzer]

22 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I see no actual reason for it to cost less affinity to rank a Warframe/Weapon back to lvl 30. Nothing 1 or 2 Hydron runs up to wave 15~20 wont max out.

I do not want to repeat same grind again and again, for each weapon and frame i have and for each forma i put.

It already would be repeating hydron 15-20 waves or 2-3 rounds of bere over a hundred times if i just add 1 forma to every frame/weapon i have and max them back.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Ldezzer

[Entharias]

Just now, BiancaRoughfin said:

Not going to happen, like, ever. It would make any weapon a possible power creep.

You know there are players who have formed their Lato Vandal/Prime and Braton Vandals more than 100 times just for the pleasure of doing it? Imagine the damage output of these weapons if an update that made Forma increase stats was made.

I myself tend to forma more than the needed amount, so that's why i said, a capped amount of formas can give stats etc.
But i'm aware that it's never going to happen, it's just a silly dream of mine.

[LordOfTheDread]

il y a 16 minutes, Ldezzer a dit :

I do not want to repeat same grind again and again, for each weapon and frame i have and for each forma i put.

It already would be repeating hydron 15-20 waves or 2-3 rounds of bere over a hundred times if i just add 1 forma to every frame/weapon i have and max them back.

Then you might have picked the wrong game my friend. Note that doing Hydron gives you plenty of ressources and relics as well, it is not like you are doing that only for affinity. Also there are other ways to level your gear like doing stealth missions or even carry your gear to level in sorties or any high level fissure.

I can understand that you are bored with Hydron but that's up to you to do something different, at the end of the day you will be grinding anyway. that's the core of the game.

Putting a forma on a weapon / warframe increase its power by a large margin so it should not given out for no effort as well.

[GinKenshin]

you can...you know....do other missions? unless you think you HAVE to do these 2 boring missions that you don't wanna do anymore...then that is your problem, not the game 

in the end, you have a choice: 

do you want to die from boredom but make great progress lvling up? or do you want to have actual fun while using the item you want, at the cost of not as good xp gains from the other method?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

29 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

do you want to die from boredom but make great progress lvling up? or do you want to have actual fun while using the item you want, at the cost of not as good xp gains from the other method?

The problem goes deeper than this. First, Bere/Hydron are some of the few rewarding missions that can still be done with unranked frames/weapons as long as you have enough MR to mod them. If you go elsewhere, you are going to either get little to no reward for your effort, or you will fail. Try doing bounties 4/5 with frames/weapons that haven't been fully modded, then try to argue that we can do rewarding content with unranked weapons/frames.

Second, not only is there no rewarding content that is really doable with unranked gear, but their is no way to level said gear to a useable state w/o either doing unrewarding content for hours, or doing one of 3 missions over and over until everything is leveled again. When you stop and realize that most weapons and frames need at least 2-3 forma to use all 8 mod slots, you start to see the problem here: every time a prime access or a tenno reinforcements or a new frame with signature weapons comes out, you will have to run Bere or Hydron or Akkad for several hours before you can even tell whether or not the weapon/frame is top tier. I mean, bad weapons are easy to spot, but the difference between good weapons and great weapons these days is whether the gimmick is useful or if it has enough room for all the mods it is asking for. Both of these require full mod setups to answer and that requires a lot of grinding.

Assuming an average (public matchmaking, no dps, no one is constantly dying) 15-wave run of Hydron is about 30 minutes, and the average player doesn't have an affinity booster, then it takes 3-4 of these runs to max a frame, and half as many to max a weapon. This means it takes ~2 hours to max out a frame. If said frame needs 3 forma to max out it's potential, that's ~6 hours of farming. And that's when you are running on one of the best missions for leveling frames/weapons. If you go farm something else and try to passively level, it takes even longer.

And the only reason I can do Hydron with an unranked frame or weapon is because I am MR21 and get 21 (42 with catalyst/reactor) mod points to use on an unranked weapon/frame, which is enough to do a level like Hydron w/o being carried (assuming I'm not having to carry the mission myself). Anyone in the MR10-15 range is kinda screwed over, cause they don't have enough mod points to really do anything, but they have to wait until the item is half-done before they can add anything more.

I find it kinda sad the DE was originally thinking of leveling weapons up to the MR level of the person forma'ing them, saying that they wanted to 'reduce the grind', and 'remove the need for Draco', but when SotR came out, it introduced the system we have now, with DE saying that it would 'make the grind easier' while simultaneously removing Draco. The problem here is that the grind, while easier, is no less mind-numbingly boring, which was the very problem that veterans were complaining about. The grind for new weapons was bad enough; having to put in even more time just to make them usable was burning us out.

It's interesting if you look at SotR from the place we are at now, and see exactly what happened compared to what DE said they wanted. They wanted us to not get burned out on leveling weapons, but they simply made it slightly easier and removed Draco. They wanted to keep us from getting burned out farming primed parts, but wound up burning us out on farming the new 'keys' instead. Everything they said would reduce burnout, didn't. It just changed it.

[GinKenshin]

2 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

snip

hey, they added xp booster to endless relic missions. which are on almost 100% of the time. that is both rewarding, since you get relics/parts/traces and fun, since it's not always in the same place 

though I don't know if you get the boosters even when you go in without a relic. I feel that you should get the boosters even without a relic tbh, that way it'll create an even better viable option to the meta farms 

as for newbies, I mean doing any endless mission in the startchart is rewarding, whether it's for xp, relics, resources...etc. for newbies, lvling up weapons is something almost passive since you have more things to worry about. plus it gives them a goal to reach higher and higher MR and play the game more 

and yes, DE did reduce the grind. whether it's XP, prime parts, resources (via the specific resources crates)....but they also created more grinds, like the recent quest frames for example, which is a decent trade-off imo 

also, let's not overdue, I max my frames in hydron in no less than an hour, maybe more in some cases with a full team, 10-20 waves, 1-2 runs. it just depends on the frame, whether it can kill or not

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

5 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

also, let's not overdue, I max my frames in hydron in no less than an hour, maybe more in some cases with a full team, 10-20 waves, 1-2 runs. it just depends on the frame, whether it can kill or not

Do you have an affinity booster active? Because that's the same amount of time it takes me, and I have a booster active. Most players don't, meaning it takes twice as long. Then add in another 3 forma, and that's 8 hours to get a frame from new to good.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

32 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

hey, they added xp booster to endless relic missions. which are on almost 100% of the time. that is both rewarding, since you get relics/parts/traces and fun, since it's not always in the same place 

though I don't know if you get the boosters even when you go in without a relic. I feel that you should get the boosters even without a relic tbh, that way it'll create an even better viable option to the meta farms 

as for newbies, I mean doing any endless mission in the startchart is rewarding, whether it's for xp, relics, resources...etc. for newbies, lvling up weapons is something almost passive since you have more things to worry about. plus it gives them a goal to reach higher and higher MR and play the game more 

and yes, DE did reduce the grind. whether it's XP, prime parts, resources (via the specific resources crates)....but they also created more grinds, like the recent quest frames for example, which is a decent trade-off imo 

also, let's not overdue, I max my frames in hydron in no less than an hour, maybe more in some cases with a full team, 10-20 waves, 1-2 runs. it just depends on the frame, whether it can kill or not

That last part is wrong. You mean you were able to do it with a soundquake banshee on the team, sure I'd believe it.

[shoopypit]

I was thinking the opposite. Leveling should be maxed per mission

[-Bv-Qrow_the_Hokage]

I've used over 400 forma to this point and haven't really had any problems. I don't see the need for this. 

[GinKenshin]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

That last part is wrong. You mean you were able to do it with a soundquake banshee on the team, sure I'd believe it.

I mean, I just maxed my excalibur, using EB only when S#&$ hits the fan. whether you wanna believe that or not is up to you bud


oh wait, I just remembered, I had my smeeta with me as well, hmm......but sentinels are better than cats right? such narrow minded thinking
 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by GinKenshin

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

I mean, I just maxed my excalibur, using EB only when S#&$ hits the fan. whether you wanna believe that or not is up to you bud


oh wait, I just remembered, I had my smeeta with me as well, hmm......but sentinels are better than cats right? such narrow minded thinking
 

 

So you left out a major detail and then call someone out for not believing you? Without lucky smeeta procs or an affinity booster it takes a lot more than 2 runs to 20 waves to max a frame and that's with only 1 weapon.

[Oreades]

6 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I see no actual reason for it to cost less affinity to rank a Warframe/Weapon back to lvl 30. Nothing 1 or 2 Hydron runs up to wave 15~20 wont max out.

I think the problem is that sitting in Hydron* is pretty much the only answer when you want to forma something in a reasonable amount of time, the thing is it's boring........ Trust me I've spent the last 2 days in Hydrox**. Protracted bouts of boring should not be the only realistically viable answer.

*Yeah yeah Akkad or any of the "high" level sit and wait for things to level spots.

**Tho for full disclosure I wasn't working on forma just leveling stuff, still boring as sin. 

[Sepharoth]

I don't think there should be less affinity to re-level anything. That wouldn't make any sense. But what should happen is that you get mastery rank points every time you level and re-level anything. Not as many of course but you should get some. After you leveled your item up, and then used a forma on it, you then get 25 mastery rank points per level after that. And you can get those mastery rank points up to 5 formas used on said item. So, using 6 or more formas on an item gets you no mastery rank points. This would give an incentive to use formas on more items and make the grind a lot more enjoyable since you are at least gaining some mastery rank points up to a point. Just my thoughts.

[(PSN)atpbx]

They have made the made the biggest change to weapon and frame leveling that was required, which was tying it to your mastery rank and not  having the mod capacity drop to zero every time.

 

that along with dumping the frame ability cards and tying those to frame level is all that really needed changing.

 

Not like they only did this after someone not a million miles away first suggested it mind.

[GinKenshin]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Demon Intellect said:

So you left out a major detail and then call someone out for not believing you? Without lucky smeeta procs or an affinity booster it takes a lot more than 2 runs to 20 waves to max a frame and that's with only 1 weapon.

Fair enough, my bad, that wasn’t a ‘call out’ doe xD 

 

  That doesn’t make my case less true though. If you wanna lvl something, get a smeeta to help you out. I’m sure at this point you can farm and get one easily, and you can live without vacuum for a few missions 

 

  You’ll say “well, smeeta is mandatory to lvl stuff up” but it’s not, it’s just to speed it up, you have a choice here. It’s like saying an booster is mandatory to lvl up, but it’s not

 

   Like I said before, which you guys ignored for some reason and focused on the little stuff I wrote xD there are other options that are as rewarding as the meta farms if not more. Endless relics is available almost 24/7 and it has an xp booster on Rot A 

 

  Hell, even at a point in time, I used to lvl up my frame using a silent sniper on a SAB mission on Neptune, though I had to make an ‘exploit’ to make it work, but still....options are there 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

26 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Fair enough, my bad, that wasn’t a ‘call out’ doe xD 

 

  That doesn’t make my case less true though. If you wanna lvl something, get a smeeta to help you out. I’m sure at this point you can farm and get one easily, and you can live without vacuum for a few missions 

 

  You’ll say “well, smeeta is mandatory to lvl stuff up” but it’s not, it’s just to speed it up, you have a choice here. It’s like saying an booster is mandatory to lvl up, but it’s not

 

   Like I said before, which you guys ignored for some reason and focused on the little stuff I wrote xD there are other options that are as rewarding as the meta farms if not more. Endless relics is available almost 24/7 and it has an xp booster on Rot A 

 

  Hell, even at a point in time, I used to lvl up my frame using a silent sniper on a SAB mission on Neptune, though I had to make an ‘exploit’ to make it work, but still....options are there 

I never actually use sentinels, I always run with a pet. The problem i have with endless is that most PUBS want to bail at 5 or 10 so you can't really get to make good use of the XP bonus. The reason hydron is so good is the fact that it makes leveling things easier. I just threw 4 forma on my prisma angstrum and if I tried leveling it normally through normal use that would have taken days versus a few hours of hydron.