Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Vance.Stubbs]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

I've never cooked a 5-star 2000 dollars meal in my life. So you're saying that if I bought one at a restaurant and they served me cat food on a tray I'm not allowed to complain about it, because I "don't have a shred of knowledge on how difficult" it is to cook a 5-star meal? Sorry, that's nonsense.

Apologists demonstating their intellectual capabilities and logics, as always!

[-Trey-]

2018, year of nerfing stuff to the ground. Oh I'm sorry, "rebalancing".

[BadWeatherGaming]

15 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

She scales better now for high level play. You can watch for more details here:
https://twitch.tv/warframe

 

Except the damage is still not what people look for for things like sorties, We use WoF for the knock down with Firequake and now that range is far to small where she will be one shot before it gets used. On top of that it destroys her spot as the rss farming frame and puts her in a spot where she has nothing she is used for that other frames cant do better.

[Glavenusaur]

 

1 minute ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

I don't have to be a certified cook to tell that food tastes bad or a game designer to tell that game balance is a pretty sad state. But please, we may also close all feedback sections and only be allowed to mindlessly praising devs, because MAKING GAMEZ IS HARD!

Also, Warframe balance is not nowhere as complex as Path of Exile balance, since, for example, current Warframe meta offers little to no creativity for players' builds.

There is a difference between liking and disliking game balances and making it sound like game balancing is easy. Just because you didn't like the meal prepared by the certified cook does not mean you are in position to judge whether the meal was easy or hard to make, only that you did not like it. I hope that makes sense.

[kuciol]

2 minutes ago, Vance.Stubbs said:

I don't have to be a certified cook to tell that food tastes bad or a game designer to tell that game balance is a pretty sad state. But please, we may also close all feedback sections and only be allowed to mindlessly praising devs, because MAKING GAMEZ IS HARD!

Also, Warframe balance is not nowhere as complex as Path of Exile balance, since, for example, current Warframe meta offers little to no creativity for players' builds.

To be fair, Path of Exile has the luxury of having leagues (clean start every 3 months) and everything is balanced around it. They also have a different idea of "balance". Every league has its own OP builds, there never was a true balance in that game and never will. In warframe your progress is permanent so DE cant do such drastic meta changes.

[krc473]

22 minutes ago, rune_me said:

If you have to always introduce new weapons, new frames, new free roam areas for all the planets, there's not many resources left to fix broken mechanics.

They don’t have to. The problem is that grinding for new stuff is basically all you can do in the game. If DE actually bothered to give us proper enjoyable endgame content, they would be able to slow down with other stuff (that’s why other companies can get by with very few updates). I need Khora, because there is nothing to do. Yes, I could farm out meaningless caps that have no benefit to me. But DE insists on making that harder.

 

That’s my issue with them balancing stuff. Yes, it might be OP, but when you have to do the same thing 100 times (with near zero variety) the game gets pretty boring. By taking away the easy ways to do stuff, without actually improving the activities, they may see negative results. The Ember change is fine. But it really does not seem to take anything practical into consideration. I use Ember for CC against high level enemies, I do not care that the damage is zero, the range is important. But DE has all but ruined that (WIP, hopefully they will not reduce the range by so much). 

[ChristianZX]

praise for taking your time to wright this 

i agree with the fact that chroma isn't the problem i knew this would happen some day, but DE's reason being that they didn't like him breaking an eidolon's limb with one shot is BS a crit and radiation damage Euphona prime could break a limb in around one minute solo with no buff "is that chroma's fault too?". the problem is that the only challenge in the game is high level armor scaling which can be striped off with zero effort by certain builds 

an eidolon cap takes 8min max if your team knows what they are doing you added 3min congratulations probably not but what ever 

[F8ted]

12 minutes ago, schilds said:

Which will reduce the strength of abilities like accelerant.

True, I actually considered this after posting. In reality, with no other changes, still an outrageous buff. More of a combination of Transient fortitude and blind rage. Accelerant will further increase the damage bonus. With no additional power strength, this change will effectively buff WoF damage by 350%. With my modest 195% power strength, it will increase WoF damage by 575%. Forget what I said about augur reach.

Edited February 3, 2018 by F8ted
referenced wrong mod

[Vance.Stubbs]

Just now, kuciol said:

To be fair, Path of Exile has the luxury of having leagues (clean start every 3 months) and everything is balanced around it. They also have a different idea of "balance". Every league has its own OP builds, there never was a true balance in that game and never will. In warframe your progress is permanent so DE cant do such drastic meta changes.

Many players don't bother with leagues and play on permanent Hardcore or Standart, and balance changes apply to new leagues as well to permanent. The only diffirence between them is that League gets new special features which may or may not be added to permanent a few months later.

[kuciol]

Just now, Vance.Stubbs said:

Many players don't bother with leagues and play on permanent Hardcore or Standart, and balance changes apply to new leagues as well to permanent. The only diffirence between them is that League gets new special features which may or may not be added to permanent a few months later.

I know that some players play on permanent leagues but it doesnt change the fact that everything is balanced around current league. 

[JohnKable]

13 minutes ago, Robutt said:

My issue isn't with the range nerf, it is with the energy cost. It's excessive considering Ember already chews through energy like a starving animal. I generally build her mid-ranged with maxed strength, and the problem is you need to use Accelerant on enemies with heaps of armor like napalms; you wont be able to afford this if you do not own Primed Flow. 

then just drop maxed strenght  and go for maxed efficiency so when she will go for double damage the cost will be a still easy to sustain 1.5 energy / sec. and damage will still be doubled even without blind rage since she will do double damage with min range wof.

Imho the change is bad, brings the warframe to trash tier because wof will be just bad. mainly because of range, she never did that much damage and the range was already kinda tiny. with halvened range she will be effective just in melee range but with no other skill in the set going for that

[akira_him]

It is time to bring it back to the planned tweak to world of fire

For those who don't know what overheat was, it was basically a 95% damage reduction to all damage source, with the new world of fire ember will drain energy super fast and ember without energy is a dead ember, adding back overheat that lingers after world of fire depletes should make ember survive long enough for restoring energy

[Vance.Stubbs]

5 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

 

There is a difference between liking and disliking game balances and making it sound like game balancing is easy. Just because you didn't like the meal prepared by the certified cook does not mean you are in position to judge whether the meal was easy or hard to make, only that you did not like it. I hope that makes sense.

Well, I am pretty sure that if DE allowed me to mess with game balance, it would take me a few hours of tinkering and a few days of reading community feedback to make Channeling a viable enjoyable mechanic and a worthy alternative to current crit/CO meta.

Sometimes you just have to feel stuff, not rely on dull theoretical numbers and formulas.

[(XBOX)NeutralSilence]

I'm also really concerned about the Mag changes. I thought she was suppose to be the Magnetism Frame, not some overshield bot. She already has Polarize - an ability that strips shields/armor and replenishes shields! Why would you give Crush, the worst ability in her kit, an effect that one of her abilities should already have? Her entire kit needs work, not just some little scaling on her shards and some overshield gimmick on her worst ability.

Edited February 3, 2018 by (XB1)NeutralSilence
Forgot that mention Polarize refers shields.

[Robutt]

1 minute ago, JohnKable said:

with halvened range she will be effective just in melee range but with no other skill in the set going for that

Pretty much where I am coming from with this thread.

[(PSN)Dublincore]

21 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Would you have said the same thing about the Damage 2.5 changes?

Sure, i would. DE goal was an interesting systemic change for damage, so at least for me the effort is totally worth. Plus i think we should have some sort of peace about changes, since every mmorpg/PvE/whatever out there is going to change and adapt over time, so personally i prefer to test before complaining, and if my game style should change to overcome the same challenges or the new ones so be It, i've nothing against It.

[Glavenusaur]

Just now, Vance.Stubbs said:

Well, I am pretty sure that if DE allowed me to mess with game balance, it would take me a few hours of tinkering and a few days of reading community feedback to make Channeling a viable enjoyable mechanic and a worthy alternative to current crit/CO meta.

Sometimes you just have to feel stuff, not rely on dull theoretical numbers and formulas.

Again, your making something that is most likely extremely difficult to manage sound like something you can just "wing it" there are tens if not hundreds of factors involved with balancing each and every aspect especially with games like warframe, but please... if you think you can do a better job, why not apply to be part of the dev team? i'm sure you're certainly qualified for the role at hand and can fix it in a day right?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think soon people will realise that even with x2 damage, reducing her range will mean a squishy frame like her will be useless in front of a high level enemy.

Sees enemy..

Turns on World of Fire..

Runs towards enemy..

Boom..

Dead before nicking him..

Great balance..

[Vance.Stubbs]

While old Overheat was definetely useful, I feel it messes with her "combat mage" role too much and plain 95% reduction is ridicilous anyway.

I would like Overheat to be an aura that gives Ember slight resistance to Heat damage. has a chance to "melt" nearby projectiles into nothing and converts all incoming damage into Heat damage, so no more Slash or Toxin procs, only Heat which are benificial for her anyway.

[JohnKable]

6 minutes ago, Robutt said:

Pretty much where I am coming from with this thread.

just pointing out the problem isnt the drain, will still be easy to sustain. the real problem is range. even with overextended the halvened range will be just bad.
Also slotting in overextended wont be an easy task if you want to keep a barely decent damage. or you can go for a very low damage firequake build that will still suck because of range but will be something atleast viable (slightly LESS than 20m range when shrink with overextended, stretch and augur reach. negligible damage and below average cc capability)

Edited February 3, 2018 by JohnKable

[Hixlysss]

So then...Ash changes...and he still marks enemies....so I have to play seizure simulator still in order to actually mark them enough to make sure they die. Great.

Could you please at some point just completely redo Ash's forth ability? Just scrap it, burn it, and make something new. Even with these coming changes i'm not seeing the fun in using him. Maybe if it wasn't "Shake your screen rapidly to mark the enemy multiple times!" it would be better but at this point i'm just tired of the same power being tweaked to no real affect...

To top that off while enemies are locked in the animations of being stabbed my team mates can do NOTHING to them. CC? Nope. Debuff? Nope. Kill? Nope. They can do nothing to the target while it's being wounded by bladestorm, making it more of a hindrance at higher levels as it prevents team mates from debuffing(corrosive, blind, ect) while they are being 'mauled' by the clones/ash.

[kuciol]

2 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think soon people will realise that even with x2 damage, reducing her range will mean a squishy frame like her will be useless in front of a high level enemy.

Sees enemy..

Turns on World of Fire..

Runs towards enemy..

Boom..

Dead before nicking him..

Great balance..

Than adujst a build. Instead of using 145% range like most builds ive seen have use 290% range, you will have to scrifice your dmg but it wasnt worth it anyway vs high lvl enemies.

[Glavenusaur]

2 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think soon people will realise that even with x2 damage, reducing her range will mean a squishy frame like her will be useless in front of a high level enemy.

Sees enemy..

Turns on World of Fire..

Runs towards enemy..

Boom..

Dead before nicking him..

Great balance..

We wont really know the full details till the balance gets patched in though will we? so the least people can do is actually wait and see how it works instead of complaining without any tangible basis to do so, like they've lost all meaning to their lives or something... jesus christ....

[Kuestenjung]

vor einer Stunde schrieb kuciol:

They want to start doing it right now and all there is on forums is crying. Players want changes but not the things they use.

 

vor 57 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

Except i dont? I just stated the fact on how it is. 

This isn´t a fact, it´s a dillusional point of view. DE is balancing stuff since the game exists, that doesn´t mean they are doing it right now, and I can garantuee you. It won´t be right now.

@Topic: This will actually do almost nothing for Embers scalling into lategame, cause fire alone will still scale really bad.

[-ECHO-Akrasiel.VI]

Ok, now that you guys decided to nerf some of the good frames, how about a buff to some frames that need some love: nyx, nezha, vauban (total rework), wukong.