Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[Fallen_Echo]

29 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

This is only true if you are bad at aiming. beamweapons rampup offer a risk/reward mechanic.

If your aim is good, you can use the stronger beam weapns.

If you need to spray and pray, you choose a ballistic weapon.

Tell that to the console users who already have nad aim.

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb iceyShardZ:

the problem isn't aiming,

Oh come on, at least be a good sport.

It WAS an issue, I prooved you are stupid and wrong (and stupid)

And instead of admiting it you brush it off and claim that you didn't care...

vor 22 Minuten schrieb iceyShardZ:

you can aim but if your crosshair just moves away from an enemy for a millisecond you lost all your damage

so no

this is f*cking stupid beyond belief

without ramp up decay this is unbelievably hopeless

Edit:

And now it's again an issue....

vor 11 Minuten schrieb iceyShardZ:

you mean its not bad if  you stand still and NEVER halt your fire to switch positions, ffs

aiming is easy,especially with perfectly accurate weapons,my aim is just fine,its just that this game requires you to switch positions constantly,and to keep reverting to 10% damage is infuriating

 

Also, yeah, shooting while standing is easy. This is were more skilled players get rewarded, when they manage to shoot while moving.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

Tell that to the console users who already have nad aim.

You've got your aimassist.

(Which you can use on the PC version as well, when you are playing with a gamepad. I tried it out myself.)

[Fallen_Echo]

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

You've got your aimassist.

(Which you can use on the PC version as well, when you are playing with a gamepad. I tried it out myself.)

I dont have a gamepad to test out how good is the aim-assist but heard many complaints about how hard is aminig on consoles.

[iceyShardZ]

no its not about aiming,its about halting your fire to switch positions,

and its about the fact that the damage resets to 10% for each.new.enemy which makes alot of your ammo practically practice bullet,

however i will admit that beam weapons were maybe too strong before this change,so i think i should admit it there,

a nerf was due to happen,

hooowever,

i can gulp this change if they make the ramp up going from 50% to 100% in 1 second,

instead of 10% to 100%

this would mean that trash mobs would not be such a problem, as they shouldn't be 

honestly this alone can make me shut up,just change the base ramp up from 10% to 50%

Edited February 23, 2018 by iceyShardZ

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Fallen_Echo:

I dont have a gamepad to test out how good is the aim-assist but heard many complaints about how hard is aminig on consoles.

So, you threw i some random noise in hope it might be correct by chance?

Great argument you are making there!

 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb iceyShardZ:

no its not about aiming,its about halting your fire to switch positions,

If you have to stop firing when moving, your aim is bad...

[iceyShardZ]

5 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

So, you threw i some random noise in hope it might be correct by chance?

Great argument you are making there!

 

If you have to stop firing when moving, your aim is bad...

i was talking about literally running away from the enemies,in that position you are intentionally looking away from then in order to aim your bullet jump to find a better angle for shooting at them

but idc

whatever on the aiming part,

still the damage resets for every single enemy

and that's incredibly annoying,it shouldn't be that way,

a ramp up per target can be acceptable if the ramp up base is not THIS low,

50% at base would make me be fine about this change

even 30%

Edited February 23, 2018 by iceyShardZ

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb iceyShardZ:

still the damage resets for every single enemy

and that's incredibly annoying,it shouldn't be that way,

a ramp up per target can be acceptable if the ramp up base is not THIS low,

50% at base would make me be fine about this change

Status effects have to be applied on every single new target again.

Nobody is complaining there. Especially corrosive.

When in higher level missions armored enemies will inistially take low damage anyway until you got a few procs in...

[iceyShardZ]

3 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Status effects have to be applied on every single new target again.

Nobody is complaining there. Especially corrosive.

When in higher level missions armored enemies will inistially take low damage anyway until you got a few procs in...

yes,but when you have to wait for both corrossive and your damage to kill a stupid trash mob,

thats infuriating,

changing the damage ramp up base to 30~35%,should be a good enough of a balance change

that way you'd still have to aim,but not have your damage reset completely with every trash mob

is that a good compromise?

Edited February 23, 2018 by iceyShardZ

[Fallen_Echo]

11 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

So, you threw i some random noise in hope it might be correct by chance?

Great argument you are making there!

No not really, i just stated from what i know aim assist wont help people if your crosshair continously wanders off targets.

In the past i have played many games on my now dead xbox 360 and aiming in general is terrible regardless of aim assist.

If we take that into consideration and the fact that players here who supposedly have the best way to aim find this change ridicolous we have the signs of a catastrophe.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Fallen_Echo
i hate these forum errors.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb iceyShardZ:

yes,but when you have to wait for both corrossive and your damage to kill a stupid trash mob,

thats infuriating,

Ever heared of 'picking the right tool for the job'?

If you are using beamweapons for trash it's like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail in.

have you played Starcraft 2?

Protoss Voidrays suck VS Terran Marines.

It's up to the skill of the player to choose the right tool.

That's gameplay!

[iceyShardZ]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Ever heared of 'picking the right tool for the job'?

If you are using beamweapons for trash it's like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail in.

have you played Starcraft 2?

Protoss Voidrays suck VS Terran Marines.

It's up to the skill of the player to choose the right tool.

That's gameplay!

dude,every faction has trash mobs!!!!

every level!!!!

literallly!!!!

you literally can't play a beam weapon without encountering them,

and in case you didn't realize

i want to play with beam weapons

Edited February 23, 2018 by iceyShardZ

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb iceyShardZ:

dude,every faction has trash mobs!!!!

every level!!!!

literallly!!!!

And you are not limited to 1 weapon. So what?

[Fallen_Echo]

14 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

So, you threw i some random noise in hope it might be correct by chance?

Great argument you are making there!

I think i will ask one of my friends to lend his console for some testing.

[iceyShardZ]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

And you are not limited to 1 weapon. So what?

that's the worst argument for why a weapon mechanic shouldn't be changed,

that im not limited to that category of weapons?

so we shouldn't buff the panthera because im not limited to it?

great

why can't 30% ramp up can't be a good compormise??

also 

saying "taking a beam weapons against trash mobs is using the wrong tool"

is such a stupid statement for the beam weapons of two weeks ago,

to them "taking a beam weapon against heavy units is using the wrong tool"

and those are both wrong answers,the weapons should be functional ffs

and 30% precent would keep it really close to what it is now,just way more organic feeling against trash mobs,which are 70% of this game

Edited February 23, 2018 by iceyShardZ

[Walkampf]

You are so missing the point, your boss has to be wearing a black cape...

Do you really not get, why it's interesting gameplay when you encourage players to use different weapons, instead of of one weapon countering any and every situation?

Edited February 23, 2018 by Walkampf

[--Q--Nagling]

Concerning beam weapon changes that came along with the 22.12.3 update, I've been revisiting Phage (which has been one of my favorite weapons in the game) and I find that I do not agree with all the changes made. Firstly I'm glad about the returning to the "old" type of beam weapon functions, which makes the game more rewarding for being accurate with your shots. However the ammo consumption/ammo economy, especially with Phage, is ridiculous now. I had always preferred Phage over other shotguns because of its superb ammo economy, you could go long endless missions with ease without having to jam ammo mutations or now using carrier to patch up the ammo expendature. After the update I couldn't finish a Sortie mobile defence mission even WITH a carrier without running out of ammo. To me it seemed that the current gameplay on a once ammo efficient weapon is only reloading. I hope the ammo consumption amounts would be revisited and tuned. Otherwise thank you DE for your good work on keeping the game fresh and enjoyable for the last 5 years.

[Recel]

Forum derped, double post...

Edited February 23, 2018 by Recel

[Recel]

"Ramp up is a nice mechanic."

Why? Please explain to me, why in the game, beam weapons need to build up damage on a per target basis. Is their damage so overpoweringly high? Are all of them so godly suddenly? In comparison to regular guns, did they prove in a single day that they are all game breaking? Or is it... because a single one was preforming more than DE wished, so they threw a nuke on the whole neighbourhood?

I don't own every single beam weapon. But I'm sure the Nukor, the Cyclon and especially the Convectrix sure didn't melt entire groups of enemies faster or as fast as other, non beam weapon options. So why do the whole weapon group needs ramp up?

And this isn't just a rant. I really want to hear peoples opinions on why beam weapons would need this in the first place.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Recel

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

8 hours ago, Urlan said:

That would be a matter of opinion, some are better yes. But I would wait until you have them before you; on console to make that final judgement call. Until then, seeing us work through these issues with input from the devs should help it be better for you so that is a good take-away at least.

It's not a matter of opinion, don't get confused on what an opinion is. Sure, you may not LIKE them, but all beam weapons are powerhouses :]

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

3 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

You do realise Convectrix needs to converge the two beams before it is any good, right? And that it's alt-fire is near useless on things above Lvl 5 enemies?
Two beams are very slow to aim and cannot be sped up. It's just not viable with that kind of mechanic. And the moment you let go of the trigger their positions are reset to superwide again.

It's not that the weapon's damage output is bad, it's just that the weapon mechanic on it is everything but usable in combat scenarios.

Alt-fire got changed :]

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Walkampf said:You are so missing the point, your boss has to be wearing a black cape...

Do you really not get, why it's interesting gameplay when you encourage players to use different weapons, instead of of one weapon countering any and every situation?

This is a silly post, overall. You can only use two guns and one melee for any one mission, with no chance of switching your load out during the mission. Basically, encouraging players to use different weapons is pointless if they only have access to 2 guns and one melee at any one time.

I always carry a Cycron as it is an excellent back up pistol, and it used to be good for sweeping rooms due to my Riven. I pair that up with a high damage long ranged primary for hard targets. One gun for trash mobs, the other for hard targets.

Now, I could switch the Cycron for my formaed Akstilleto Prime or whatever, but that is not encouraging players to use different weapons. I cannot go from the Cycron to the Akstilleto in missions, just like I cannot switch my Rubico to my Telos Boltor for gunning down lines of Eximus if I took the Rubico for the mission.

TL/DR: Weapon diversity in mission is irrelevant, as you cannot switch weapons out during the mission.

55 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Ever heared of 'picking the right tool for the job'?

If you are using beamweapons for trash it's like using a screwdriver to hammer a nail in.

have you played Starcraft 2?

Protoss Voidrays suck VS Terran Marines.

It's up to the skill of the player to choose the right tool.

That's gameplay!

If you are using beam weapons for the hard targets, it is using a rake to bake a cake. As far as testing goes, you'd be better off using an Opticor/Tigris/Sniper Rifle against a hard target up to Sortie level (no, I am not talking about stupid level 155 simulacrum tests, which are not accurate representations of gameplay)

Beam weapons couldn't take out the trash last time due to their crappy status. They aren't optimal for shooting Dargyns or Eidolons either, last I heard. They also don't do enough burst damage against bosses with invulnerability phases.

Now, they can do the former admirably well before the per target crap, but still not do well for the latter. Good aim is not rewarded with beams either - staying on target is no issue for me, but having damage ramp up per target just because someone got salty their Tigris Prime is no longer the fastest in an unrealistic simulacrum number game is not at all fun.

Plus, they already have tiny range. It's enough of an incentive not to use a beam even without the ramp up mechanic.

[iceyShardZ]

44 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You are so missing the point, your boss has to be wearing a black cape...

Do you really not get, why it's interesting gameplay when you encourage players to use different weapons, instead of of one weapon countering any and every situation?

okay and i get your point,having it be not so great against trash mobs can be a limitation,

if we forget the bad ammo economy,

if we forget the limited range

and if we also forget the low crit chance when we talk about the glaxion

i AM okay with one more limitation

considering the status chance and fire rate

but it SHOULDN't be 10%,

that is like reseting your damage with   every  single   enemy

if it was 30% i would be down for that,it would still make the weapon be bad against trash mobs,but not this frustratingly slow,

this is a horde shooter and most of the enemies you see are trash mobs.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Recel said:

And this isn't just a rant. I really want to hear peoples opinions on why beam weapons would need this in the first place.

The fact is they don't...

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Ramp up would only be a "good mechanic" if it acted as a damage buff rather than a damage gate.

Though with how they currently make changes that would quickly turn into a nightmare. "Beam weapons now ramp up to 10x normal damage over 1 second per target! (on the side: All beam weapons have had their damage reduced to 1/10th of their original values)."