Slide Attack/Maiming Strike/Whip and Polearm range -- an absurd mixture of overpoweredness

[Vindicus8235]

Can we please talk about the elephant in the room here?  Frames like Ember get World on Fire nerfed because it basically ruins the game for anyone else trying to play.  That was partially true but only worked up to around level 40 mobs.  Now slide attack on the other hand, ruins games up to at least 150 and beyond.  Sorties are a mind numbing bore-fest with a slide attack spammer as there's really nothing left to do since it's a super fast moving screen wide red crit aoe fest.  Please address this egregiously overpowered combo of things for the health of the game.  At the very least cap melee range to a few meters, since you know, it's melee; increase whip and polearm damage to compensate if necessary.  Thanks for your consideration.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

No.

I’ve had enough talking about this. You’re beating a dead horse.

[DDixon286]

Another one of these...jeez just play solo or find another squad to play with if you don’t like people who have more power than you.

[Vindicus8235]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

No.

I’ve had enough talking about this. You’re beating a dead horse.

The simple solution is to no longer talk about it then.  However, I choose to continue the discussion.  Toodles.

 

Just now, DDixon286 said:

Another one of these...jeez just play solo or find another squad to play with if you don’t like people who have more power than you.

No.  I want party play that's fun, interesting, intuitive and engaging for the entire party.  For the most part Warframe delivers this.  The exception is when a slide attack spammer is in the game.  You are correct though, they do "have more power than me" because it's an entirely broken combo of mechanics.  I'm glad we agree on that point.

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 a dit :

No.

I’ve had enough talking about this. You’re beating a dead horse.

 

à l’instant, DDixon286 a dit :

Another one of these...jeez just play solo or find another squad to play with if you don’t like people who have more power than you.

Yes, it's another thread on the Spin-2-win spam, and there will always be more as long as it's not fixed. Why do people disregard the threads explaning the problem yet not the actual problem?

 

PS @DDixon286: Forcing others to play solo just so others can cheese in public isn't going to fix anything.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

It gets nerfed, something else will take its place, more threads complaining about a mechanic will be brought up on the forums.

Again, it’s an endless chain of complaining about getting something nerfed when something else can easily take its place. 

Again, you’re beating a dead horse. You might as well eat it at this point to conserve energy.

[jiminatorx]

maybe they can halve the range double the damage and add a stamina cost. will that work?

[Magicfingers]

8 minutes ago, Vindicus8235 said:

No.  I want party play that's fun, interesting, intuitive and engaging for the entire party.  

No. You want people to play the game the way you want it to be played.

[Threa]

2 minutes ago, Magicfingers said:

No. You want people to play the game the way you want it to be played.

Exactly. This is a common theme among players always calling for nerfs. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Threa

[(PSN)tissot555]

Just stop with this already. I never see spin to win players and I play nothing but pubs everyday for hours. Enjoy the game and let others do the same. If you get into a match with a spinner do one of two things back out or just run around opening lockers and what not for resources. It doesn't happen that often. Stop crying in a pve game

[Vindicus8235]

I see there are quite a few eager to defend the enormous stature of the slide attack spam.  This is a sure sign that it's incredibly broken as outlined here and in numerous other threads.  I've only been playing for a few months now and have seen DE handle things that break the game quite nicely. 

I'm very excited to see slide attack spam brought into check so the game will be more enjoyable for everyone just trying to have a good time, and not just 1 out of 4 players on the team spamming slides.  100% enjoyment is a pipe dream, but 25% of the team having a good time can definitely be improved upon!

Edited March 13, 2018 by Vindicus8235

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 4 minutes, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 a dit :

It gets nerfed, something else will take its place, more threads complaining about a mechanic will be brought up on the forums.

Again, it’s an endless chain of complaining about getting something nerfed when something else can easily take its place. 

Again, you’re beating a dead horse. You might as well eat it at this point to conserve energy.

Who cares if they find something else in the future? DE will just need to fix it too. Abandonning the idea of fixing balance problems will only make the game more and more unbalanced with each new things DE adds, and, just in case you don't know, DE is actualy trying their best at balancing the game, as requested by many players over the years. Banshee's RQ was nerfed for a reason, a reason that also applies to Spin-2-win, Ash's old Bladestrom, and so on.

 

il y a 3 minutes, Magicfingers a dit :

No. You want people to play the game the way you want it to be played.

The common excuse of all the people defending broken, powercreep and cheese brainless gameplay. Tell me, how much did it hurt you to see Banshee's RQ disapear? 

[Ryunokage]

Wouldn't it be more viable to limit the spammability of spin attacks, rather the nerfing the attacks themselves?

Implement some manner of a cool off on spin attacks, or some other measure that prevents a person from repeatedly spamming the attack without consequence.

I'd find it more interesting if there were an opportunity cost to spin attacks, having a cost/benefit decision to each moment to moment decision would increase the degree of engagement and immersion into the game.

[Kyoresh]

6 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Tell me, how much did it hurt you to see Banshee's RQ disapear? 

 

When did it disappear? 

Last time I checked it got buffed.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Who cares if they find something else in the future? DE will just need to fix it too. Abandonning the idea of fixing balance problems will only make the game more and more unbalanced with each new things DE adds, and, just in case you don't know, DE is actualy trying their best at balancing the game, as requested by many players over the years. Banshee's RQ was nerfed for a reason, a reason that also applies to Spin-2-win, Ash's old Bladestrom, and so on.

 

The common excuse of all the people defending broken, powercreep and cheese brainless gameplay. Tell me, how much did it hurt you to see Banshee's RQ disapear? 

There.

Is.

No.

Perfect.

Balance.

In.

Warframe.

Simple as that. “Balance” is an egregious ideology that can never be fully achieved, like ideas of Perfection or Beauty commonly associated through human perspective.

[Vindicus8235]

Just now, Ryunokage said:

Wouldn't it be more viable to limit the spammability of spin attacks, rather the nerfing the attacks themselves?

Implement some manner of a cool off on spin attacks, or some other measure that prevents a person from repeatedly spamming the attack without consequence.

I'd find it more interesting if there were an opportunity cost to spin attacks, having a cost/benefit decision to each moment to moment decision would increase the degree of engagement and immersion into the game.

Yes quite possibly a cooldown would be enough of a fix.  It doesn't need to be completely gutted as a potent attack but in its current form it's clearly game breaking.  My initial thought was that maiming strike was the main culprit but there's really just a perfect concoction of broken mechanics, such as melee weapons doing 360 degree AoEs in a 20m+ radius combined with 100% red crits and building purely for speed that make it what it is.  I'm not sure JUST reducing range would be enough, or JUST changing the way maiming strike works. 

DE makes the big bucks and makes the game what it is, I'm sure they could arrive at a sensible solution; all I know is something about it needs to change because it completely ruins the game when in a party with a slide attack spammer.  No other frame, build, weapon, playstyle etc. other than MAYBE a Limbo intentionally trolling, has such a great and negative impact on gameplay experience for the other players on the team.

[shut]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

There.

Is.

No.

Perfect.

Balance.

In.

Warframe.

I don't understand this mentality. Of course balance will never be perfect, but that's not an excuse to just leave it as it is.

If you have a gigantic pile of problems to deal with, you don't look at the pile, say to yourself "Wow, that's a big pile", and then walk away without doing anything. The size of that pile is all the more reason to get working on it ASAP.

 

On a side note:

13 minutes ago, Vindicus8235 said:

Yes quite possibly a cooldown would be enough of a fix.

The spammability of slide attacks is NOT the problem. I see this misconception all the time in "nerf slidespam" threads-- people keep blaming the fact that slide attacks are spammable and macro'able, as though macro'ing a slide attack instead of a regular attack will somehow increase your damage output by orders of magnitude or something. ^{(Tonfas aside.)}

The problem isn't slide attacks. The problem is that Maiming Strike stacks multiplicatively with Blood Rush. This means that if you have a weapon with 0% Crit Chance, then MS+BS will let you reach literally >500% crit chance at 3x combo.
The whole problem could be fixed if MS was added after BS, not before.

Edited March 13, 2018 by SortaRandom

[Vindicus8235]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

There.

Is.

No.

Perfect.

Balance.

In.

Warframe.

Simple as that. “Balance” is an egregious ideology that can never be fully achieved, like ideas of Perfection or Beauty commonly associated through human perspective.

Nobody is asking for perfect balance.  You take what's clearly an outlier (slide attack spam) and change it in a way that it's less intrusive to other players as a way to mitigate the effects of poor balance, not perfect it.  Your argument is akin to saying "why bother wearing seat belts when people still die in car crashes"?  Because you mitigate the impact of fatal crashes by wearing seat belts, not eliminate them as nothing could ever fulfill that goal.

[Dreadwire]

Well which you prefer spin to win or press 4 to win or afk to win or even wukong to win.

At least the dude doin something rather than doing so little to win

[cookieknife]

Whips should be nerfed to have their slide attacks just the handle and blade like it is during holster. They do too much range in spam attacks 

dont @ me

[jiminatorx]

LOL balance in a pve game. what exactly is being balanced? Should every player be doing 25% of the damage? Will that be sufficient? Does that include low level players?

[Vindicus8235]

7 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I don't understand this mentality. Of course balance will never be perfect, but that's not an excuse to just leave it as it is.

If you have a gigantic pile of problems to deal with, you don't look at the pile, say to yourself "Wow, that's a big pile", and then walk away without doing anything. The size of that pile is all the more reason to get working on it ASAP.

 

On a side note:

The spammability of slide attacks is NOT the problem. I see this misconception all the time in "nerf slidespam" threads-- people keep blaming the fact that slide attacks are spammable and macro'able, as though that'll somehow increase your damage output by orders of magnitude or something. (Tonfas aside. Slidespam actually will do that with tonfas.)

The problem isn't slide attacks. The problem is that Maiming Strike stacks multiplicatively with Blood Rush.
What this means is that if you have a weapon with 0% Crit Chance, then MS+BS will let you reach literally >500% crit chance at 3x combo. THAT is the problem here-- not slide attacks themselves. This problem could be fixed if MS was added after BS, not before.

Thanks for the info.  I didn't know exactly how all of the calculations worked, only what the end result is which is 100% red crits and enormous range.

[Vindicus8235]

Just now, jiminatorx said:

LOL balance in a pve game. what exactly is being balanced? Should every player be doing 25% of the damage? Will that be sufficient? Does that include low level players?

No need for hyperbole.  An attempt should be made at some semblance of balance even in a predominantly pve game yes.  DE clearly does attempt to at the very least bring outliers back into line, and slide attack spammers are the epitome of outliers.

[sleepychewbacca]

If it's a concern, everytime a thread like this pops up, just block the OP in game. Then the OP doesn't get matched with you, and won't need to worry about having all the fun and enjoyment taken away, and both parties get to play to their desires. Drastic, but until DE adds better matchmaking, I don't see any other simpler alternative. 

That being said, I do miss the days where it was accepted that pub missions were anything goes. There has been a lot more complaints since the playerbase expanded, and while change is good, well... too much change is never a good thing, especially when it's kneejerk. 

[lapali20]

Just now, sleepychewbacca said:

If it's a concern, everytime a thread like this pops up, just block the OP in game. Then the OP doesn't get matched with you, and won't need to worry about having all the fun and enjoyment taken away, and both parties get to play to their desires. Drastic, but until DE adds better matchmaking, I don't see any other simpler alternative. 

That being said, I do miss the days where it was accepted that pub missions were anything goes. There has been a lot more complaints since the playerbase expanded, and while change is good, well... too much change is never a good thing, especially when it's kneejerk. 

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