The Zephyr Dilemma

[(PSN)TertulSee]

Who came first? The chicken or the egg?

All jokes aside, Zephyr has an interesting problem that I don’t think players realize. Zephyr is actually OP. No, not talking about the all frames are OP thing, no, actually Over Powered in Warframe standards statistically. If you really think about it, Zephyr has one flaw, she lack reliable CC.

Besides that single flaw, Zephyr is very much Over Powered. The reason being? She has High Damage even without her Tornado Augment, she can survive just by stay in the air with Turbulence, she has a huge amount of mobility on the map which allows her to avoid large clumps of enemies thus further improving her survivability and she can speed through the map at ridiculous speeds.

What does every other frame have? Survivability and CC. What does Zephyr have? Everything above but with more damage and mobility. What gives Zephyr the upper hand is that her playstyle requires her to be constantly active and thinking strategically slightly. Some might say that every frame can do that but none of them can do it as well as Zephyr.

Unlike other frames, Zephyr can stay in the air for a huge amount of time. This allows her to gain more advantageous positions to fire large AoE weapons or any weapon actually. What Zephyr does differently is that her advantages require her to be active 24/7. Her abilities rely on positioning rather than anything.

Some people might compare her to Titania but Zephyr is actually better because she has huge AoE Damage and she basically can’t die right in the air. Titania on the other hand, can CC enemies and take targets one by one. She can’t really take advantage of the air much like Zephyr can.

The thing that’s wrong with buffing Zephyr is that it will make Zephyr OP enough to abandon other frames. She has really high stats and can take advantage of avoiding damage. Statistically, Zephyr should be really OP because she can at any time go wherever she wants. Frames such as Excalibur and Atlas can’t do such things. Zephyr should be able to survive forever if she avoids Bombards and constantly move. Her Tornadoes can just kill everything and turn it into a bloodbath. 

What makes Zephyr so unappealing isn’t the fact that she’s weak, she’s just really difficult to play. Most frames drop off eventually because an enemy will either One shot them or the enemies start to become impossible to kill but not for Zephyr.

Very few frames can do that actually. Ash, Octavia, Chroma, Loki, Ivara, Inaros and maybe Nidus but even he starts to fall off. Other frames can easily be overwhelmed or just become useless after a certain point but not Zephyr. As long as you can keep her Turbulence up and constantly dash around, Zephyr can last as long as you want just as long as you can keep it up. Wukong can’t quite keep up like this due to the fact that he doesn’t have the ability to kill on his own. Weapons that can strip armor can make other frames stay up longer but that becomes difficult to do later on especially with new enemies spawning after you CC them. Zephyr doesn’t have this problem. Zephyr can just cast Turbulence and safely take out enemies in the air or from a distance.

Overall, Zephyr is currently a “safer Titania” because one stray bullet can kill Titania but not Zephyr. Zephyr has the potential to be really OP but players just don’t want to bother playing her the active way (due to there being alternatives). Zephyr does need a some changes to her kit to fit Warframe a bit better (especially with her new Air Burst ability) but overall, Zephyr should be really strong. She’s really fun but hard to master.

TL;DR: First off, I would like to point out that reading some of it will clear up most questions. Zephyr isn’t as weak as you think she is. She’s actually better than most frames (with the exception to Ivara and Octavia). She can kill consistently. She can survive very well with a bit of effort. Overall, Zephyr is good but needs “skill” to take advantage of her kit.

Note: Yes, I do realize that Funnel Clouds may be nerfed sometime in the near future but I think it’s not really OP. Even if it gets nerfed, it should still be able to strip armor fast enough to make it good. (Unless they make a completely new Augment).

[Cyberhazard]

in regard to your last note, Funnel Cloud has no reason to be nerfed, it's op in the eyes of the Simulacrum warriors, but in real conditions, it's nowhere near as strong due to the tornadoes aiming at different targets

Edited March 27, 2018 by Cyberhazard
typos

[(PSN)TertulSee]

15 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

in regard to your last note, Funnel Cloud has no reason to be nerfed, it's op in the eyes of the Simulacrum warriors, but in real conditions, it's not near as strom due to the tornadoes aiming at different targets

I also like to note that this isn’t confirmed. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I don’t think it will be nerfed but it may happen so it’s there just in case.

[Aeon94]

14 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

in regard to your last note, Funnel Cloud has no reason to be nerfed, it's op in the eyes of the Simulacrum warriors, but in real conditions, it's not near as strom due to the tornadoes aiming at different targets

This ^.

Tornadoes go all over the place and hardly touch same target longer than 2 secs. I recommend using abilities / augments in missions before jumping into conclusions.

[Zhoyzu]

22 minutes ago, Cyberhazard said:

in regard to your last note, Funnel Cloud has no reason to be nerfed, it's op in the eyes of the Simulacrum warriors, but in real conditions, it's not near as strom due to the tornadoes aiming at different targets

^

 

also if you dont use that augment shes got good CC and her speed is useless in most tiles since they are mostly just hallways with a few large rooms. Her mobility only really comes into play while on the plains.

she wasnt as good with divebomb cause you never were able to really use it in such close quarters and now air burst adds damage and CC to her kit.

While she is strong shes not OP. I also find it interesting you didnt mention the only god tier warframe in your list

edit: its safer to say that zephyr is better at mitigating damage than dealing it

Edited March 27, 2018 by Zhoyzu

[Zhoyzu]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

I also like to note that this isn’t confirmed. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I don’t think it will be nerfed but it may happen so it’s there just in case.

that mod has existed for a long time so i doubt anything is going to change with it

[Cyberhazard]

Also, to add to the topic of funnel clouds, it relies HEAVELY on the weapons you use, casting the tornadoes blank, does near to no damages, Shooting multiformated AoE Weapons in the lot, that, does the damages.  She's one of the few frames that deals very veeeery low damages with her powers. The synergy between her powers and weapons does the trick. About her stats, yeah she has high health and shield, but with the armor she has, it will not save you agains't high level enemies if you don't use her wind shield that deflect projectiles,  and it's like a russian roulette when a bombard shoot you, because you might deflect the projectile at your feet and still get OS due to the absurd scaling of the enemies. Her sprint speed is not that bad, but you can't enjoy it due to her passive, so it's not relevant per say.  Her mobility on the other hand, is what define her more than any other power in my eyes, but sadly, the only map where you can really enjoy her for now, is the plains.

Beside her mobility on the plains,  what she can do, other frames can do better. There are better CC frames, There are better immortal frames, there are better damage focused frames. And for the mobility in close environment, I prefer using Volt or Ne'Zha. While Ne'Zha's momentum is sometimes hard to handle, Zephyr's one is really making me insane,  cast 1 , stay stuck on the wall for like 5 secs.  But on the plains, she's unbeatable on that aspect.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Cyberhazard

[Birdframe_Prime]

Heh, I'm amazed... after 4 years of her being the least picked frame, with no updates to anything outside of Turbulence and the spawning location of Tornado, now people are catching on about her defense, and the improvement to her CC is actually gaining traction.

Don't spoil it for the people that love playing Zephyr, my friend, we've been waiting for this for too long and want to keep it to ourselves. Other players abandon her because she's 'too floaty' or 'Turbulence should stop melee and AoE as well', without ever actually learning to play her.

And that's fine. It leaves players that enjoy her floating and enjoy her active play style to actually get to the point where her movement and evasion, coupled with defense and CC, make her functionally un-killable.

Until you make a slight mistake and a Flameblade introduces you to the sharp end of his back-scratchers.

[AlendasNaro]

There is few okay points you made but rest is quite honestly feel like you haven't constructed what you wanted to write completely.

[Threa]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

Heh, I'm amazed... after 4 years of her being the least picked frame, with no updates to anything outside of Turbulence and the spawning location of Tornado, now people are catching on about her defense, and the improvement to her CC is actually gaining traction.

Don't spoil it for the people that love playing Zephyr, my friend, we've been waiting for this for too long and want to keep it to ourselves. Other players abandon her because she's 'too floaty' or 'Turbulence should stop melee and AoE as well', without ever actually learning to play her.

And that's fine. It leaves players that enjoy her floating and enjoy her active play style to actually get to the point where her movement and evasion, coupled with defense and CC, make her functionally un-killable.

Until you make a slight mistake and a Flameblade introduces you to the sharp end of his back-scratchers.

I want to emphasize your post because I agree with it and it also perfectly describes my experience with Zephyr. She definitely requires a more active playstyle. 

The first couple days with her, I detested her. She felt weak against melee, a flying target when bombards were around, her damage seemed awful, just everything about her seemed underwhelming. I didn't give up on her. I kept playing her. I kept testing out new builds and new weapon combinations and now a few weeks later, she's become one of my most favorite frames. I will admit she is not OP, nor is she even in the best place right now, but she is definitely good if you learn how to use her properly. And by that I mean, building her around your weaknesses and adapting her to your playstyle. I hated how power hungry her abilities were so I found a balanced build that lets me cast more freely without having to worry about energy, able to use my Tornados more effectively/frequently while having a decent uptime on Turbulence (increasing my survivability). I've learned to be very mobile with her since she is still very squishy when melee and bombards are around. I learned never to stand in one spot for too long and use her dive bomb to get out of tough situations and to jump back into the fray to CC a group before tearing them apart with a new wave of Tornados. I also learned how to combine my Arca Plasmor with her Funnel Clouds augment to shred groups of enemies apart (some of the time). She works best in the Plains where she feels and plays amazing. BUT I do hope the devs consider tweaking her so she is more effective in traditional closed maps where she becomes clunky to use, similar to Titania. 

With all that being said, I don't think she should require so much effort to be effective as other frames are, but for the time being, it does keep you on your toes and it motivates you to think a bit more during combat. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Threa

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Zhoyzu:

 

While she is strong shes not OP. I also find it interesting you didnt mention the only god tier warframe in your list

Nekros?

[Zhoyzu]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Nekros?

Banshee

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb Zhoyzu:

Banshee

Banshee? Survivability? I mean the Cc and damage are on spot but cmon...

[Rambokovsky]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PS4)godlysparta:

"Wukong can’t quite keep up like this due to the fact that he doesn’t have the ability to kill on his own. "

 

vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PS4)godlysparta:

I don't know what game you play but I can kill Corrupted Heavy Gunner up to lvl 600 with my Wukong! I love Zephyr very much but Wukong is a MUCH better tank than Zephyr! There is no comparison! He can survive forever! And forever is a loooong time! You can survive with Wukong until enemy lvl cap, which is around 10.000 or higher.

 

 

[Terrornaut]

12 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

What makes Zephyr so unappealing isn’t the fact that she’s weak, she’s just really difficult to play. Most frames drop off eventually because an enemy will either One shot them or the enemies start to become impossible to kill but not for Zephyr.

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

Overall, Zephyr is currently a “safer Titania” because one stray bullet can kill Titania but not Zephyr. Zephyr has the potential to be really OP but players just don’t want to bother playing her the active way (due to there being alternatives). Zephyr does need a some changes to her kit to fit Warframe a bit better (especially with her new Air Burst ability) but overall, Zephyr should be really strong. She’s really fun but hard to master.

Part of why Zeph has been my second favorite frame, which is a funny contrast next to my first favorite frame who has no mobility, no guarantees, and the least safety of almost the entire cast while having to build and play the most carefully and quickest/frenetically (Ember). I've always found Zeph fun, just with a terribly incomplete kit. She's in a much better state now, and once I tested out those changes to Zeph, I just about cackled. 

Most people who say x is useless are usually people who are parroting and haven't and won't put in any effort to try and prove themselves wrong.  A large amount of gamers are just really lazy, mentally lazy rather. Sure, many will grind for hundreds of hours, but do something different that isn't common thought/build? There are few people out there who will really try and find some truth on their own, or push limits and challenge themselves.  Its generally not worth giving these people a ton of time, as terrible as it sounds.  I still feel iffy about releasing discovery about Zeph post changes, but I'm unknown, so its very funny to see people weeks later flipping out and pouring out the woodwork post Tac Potato and Rio videos.  It shows how much people don't experiment for themselves.

 

10 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Heh, I'm amazed... after 4 years of her being the least picked frame, with no updates to anything outside of Turbulence and the spawning location of Tornado, now people are catching on about her defense, and the improvement to her CC is actually gaining traction.

Don't spoil it for the people that love playing Zephyr, my friend, we've been waiting for this for too long and want to keep it to ourselves. Other players abandon her because she's 'too floaty' or 'Turbulence should stop melee and AoE as well', without ever actually learning to play her.

And that's fine. It leaves players that enjoy her floating and enjoy her active play style to actually get to the point where her movement and evasion, coupled with defense and CC, make her functionally un-killable.

Until you make a slight mistake and a Flameblade introduces you to the sharp end of his back-scratchers.

This :D

[Zhoyzu]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Banshee? Survivability? I mean the Cc and damage are on spot but cmon...

if she cant be touched how is that not survivable?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Zhoyzu:

if she cant be touched how is that not survivable?

That literally applys to any Cc frame that's in posession of anything that isn't a slow including vauban, volt (who at least got his shields), ID loki (plus invisibility), even Nyx (assimilate). Doesn't quite reflect how well frames do outside of stationary spamming tho.