Opinions on scythes becoming heavy blades.

[BaronKreight]

Feels like a change for the sake of change. Unless this is s step of the master plan to aggregate weapon categories.

[S0V3REiGN]

I like the change, the current iteration of scythes is nothing more than over glorified machetes. They have abysmal attack speed (probably an issue with the stances) and have terrible range. I almost never see anyone using them. 

[Shiichibukai]

Lazy bandaid fix. Thats what I think of it.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

So did DE address what was going to happen to the Plague Keewar then since it can be turned into a staff or scythe and the staff version already looks like a two handed scythe

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

My anku is the fastest weapon i have and ill be damed if i let this happen :0 (barely ever uses it)

[Unus]

Kinda reminds me of two classes of organism scientists that show up whenever you have a new species discovery.

You have the "Categoricals" who try to come up with distinct categories for each and every single new organism and then you have the "Lumpers" who look at what traits it shares most with other species and then tosses it into their arena.

 

To be honest? I can't tell which area to be a part of. Variety is essential in order to keep a modern audience given our varying tastes and our collective minuscule attention spans, but, if you have dozens of "one-shot" categories, it doesn't seem like variety that much anymore, more like a series of pigeonholes.

At the same time, I can comprehend the sensation of everything feeling like a statistically tweaked reskin of the first weapon in the category, but, then, how much work does it take to make each weapon swing uniquely and function distinctly among all it's brethren?

 

HURK, my brain. . .

[(XBOX)Timidobserver]

I don't see how anyone could have an issue with this. Scythes are garbage across the board. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. If this change will make them better then go for it. 

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, Unus said:

Kinda reminds me of two classes of organism scientists that show up whenever you have a new species discovery.

You have the "Categoricals" who try to come up with distinct categories for each and every single new organism and then you have the "Lumpers" who look at what traits it shares most with other species and then tosses it into their arena.

 

To be honest? I can't tell which area to be a part of. Variety is essential in order to keep a modern audience given our varying tastes and our collective minuscule attention spans, but, if you have dozens of "one-shot" categories, it doesn't seem like variety that much anymore, more like a series of pigeonholes.

At the same time, I can comprehend the sensation of everything feeling like a statistically tweaked reskin of the first weapon in the category, but, then, how much work does it take to make each weapon swing uniquely and function distinctly among all it's brethren?

 

HURK, my brain. . .

 

Actually, for Warframe, something in the middle is the best. And how to categorize/lump them, imo, should be to look at the categories' current animations, then look at the weapon and see if it could work out "in practice" for that weapon.

And for that comparison, let's look at these categories, which could need some serious look over:

Staves, Polearms & Scythes

Staves fight with fierce and violent smashes, with a mix of dual-ended fighting, but also seems to favor one end over the other, as seen in quite a lot of animations (fitting for stuff like Tipedo). These tend to have minimalistic "strikes" (sometimes none at all, like the old Bo) which is what lends this weapons-class to seem relatively lightweight, as they are what the class suggests after all: Staves.
Currently, I see no problem with any of the Staves, nor the weapons put in here.
Only weapon I'd like to note here: The Plague Keewar fits as a staff, yes, but it could ALSO be considered a lightweight Scythe, no? (As per current Scythe category, that is)

But... then we have Polearms.
Polearms fight with elegant slashes and some stabs (notably the frontal finisher). Interestingly enough, they also use both ends of the weapon, in many cases. There is a bunch of weapons that are rather obviously fitting here if you inspect the weapon even at a quick glance (Orthos, Cassowar, Guandao), while some are more subtle (Kesheg. Look at it's damagetype distribution. Now look at that huge sphere on the other end. Yes, it can definitely utilize both ends).
But then there are very questionable weapons in here:
Lesion -> First, this is an infested TIPEDO (a staff). And then there is no real... blade/strike on the other end. This looks like a weighted staff, like the Tipedo (duh)
Tonbo -> Arguably, it only has a blade on one end (it MIGHT be a blade on the other side, but uncertain). Depending on what is intended here, it's either a HALBERD/staff (onesided blade) or a polearm (blades on both ends). I'll let it stay in polearms, as the other end looks slashy enough to me.
Sydon -> This one has just blade(s) on one end of the pole. But not like a HALBERD/staff (more utilized to strike), but more like a SPEAR (good with thrusts/stabs, striking/slashing optional).
Mewan Zaw -> One blade. Definitely more of a HALBERD, with the potential of being a spear too.
Cyath Zaw -> One blade, and is the most HALBERD-like of them all, with limitted access to stabbing.
Kronsh Zaw -> Umm... this is definitely a STAFF. I mean, how do you STAB people with this? Oo
Dehtat Zaw -> Arguably, I'd say this is more like a spear-like weapon.
Plague Kripath Zaw -> Ok, that's a very stab/thrust-oriented spear.
Serro -> Weirdest of the bunch. This is something akin to a HALBERD or an axe, but imo it could very well in our current scythe class (if you look at how the blades are attached and how it's "weighted"). But definitely not something I see people use to STAB through someone at least.

Basicly, from analyzing Polearms, we seem to have 2 missing categories:
1) Halberds -> Polearms with blade(s) on only  one side, more meant for striking and not very much for stabbing (in some cases, that would result in a blunt "poke"), very similar to staves. Simply put, they are lighter, polearm-esque axes.
If DE wants to cut out on needing to make an entirely new category, Halberds could be clumped into the Staff category, without any real issues, if you think about it.

2) Spears -> Polearms with blade(s) on only one side, but with main intention of thrusting/stabbing. While not overcrowded, the (Vaykor) Sydon, Dehtat and Plague Kripath at least gives us 3 weapons which truly fit in this category. So, it could pave the road for a melee class with more traditional spear-fighting techniques.

Scythes, as they are used in Warframe, is kind of like pickaxe-staves. Imo, this is probably the most practical I could see a scythe being used, so I actually LIKE how this category's weapons and attacks look! What dissappoints here are the animations of the finishers:
Groundfinisher - A "thrust" with the top? What?? Scythes could, for simplicity's sake, be utilizing the staves groundfinishers (a low swipe, much more fitting)
Frontal finisher - What... is that simplistic attack? (Same as the Machete one, which, yes looks lame on those as well) Why not some gruesome "slam in the blade with the pointy end into the victim's body and pull it out with a kick"? This one is needlessly lame-looking.
Stealth finisher - Why is it using the Heavy Blade stealthfinisher? It's... not very fitting. Again, slam in the blade and pull it out (maybe slam it into the side of the NECK?) It could be so much cooler!
That said; Heavy Blades, they are most definitely NOT. The current animations the scythes have (bar the lame/unfitting finishers) fit them really well. Heavy Blade attacks seem to be too... "brutish" and unagile, for the scythes?

That leaves us with these sortings (capitalized those that are moved):
Staves (9x = Amphis, Bo, Broken Scepter, Tipedo, Plague Keewar, Balla, Ooltha, Lesion, Kronsh)
Halberd (4x = Tonbo, Mewan, Cyath, Serro (arguably could still be a scythe))
Polearms (4x = Orthos, Cassowar, Guandao, Kesheg)
Spears (3x = Sydon, Dehtat, Plague Kripath)
Scythe (5x = Anku, Caustacyst, Ether Reaper, Hate, Reaper Prime)

Or, if simplified the Halberds being squeezed into Staves/Scythes:
Staves (11x = Amphis, Bo, Broken Scepter, Tipedo, Plague Keewar, Balla, Ooltha, Lesion, Mewan, Cyath, Kronsh)
Polearms (5x = Orthos, Cassowar, Guandao, Kesheg, Tonbo)
Spears (3x = Sydon, Dehtat, Plague Kripath)
Scythe (6x = Anku, Caustacyst, Ether Reaper, Hate, Reaper Prime, Serro)

No matter how you look at it, the Polearm category is a total mess. And now they are merging together scythes and heavy blades? That's just making MORE things into a mess, particularly unfitting for a game that seems to take pride in its graphical awesomeness... *sigh*

Edited April 16, 2018 by Azamagon

[SilverRook]

On 14/04/2018 at 12:18 AM, Jarriaga said:

I love Stalking Fan. Not a fan of the decision. Can't they work like the Dark Split Sword and use both set of stances? 

THIS PLEASE !!! ^^^^^^ 

 

[Madway7]

5 hours ago, (PS4)AZN_RH said:

So did DE address what was going to happen to the Plague Keewar then since it can be turned into a staff or scythe and the staff version already looks like a two handed scythe

Most likely it will be turned into a machete/stave insead of scythe/stave.

But yeah its also possible they could make it a machete/scythe instead.

They probably won't change any of the built "scythes" at that point. They could, but they would have to refund the forma, credits, cetus wisps and parts used to build them.