Are Primed Bane worth it for mid-mastery player?

[tprx]

I was considering buying the Primed Banes from Baro Ki'Teer, but I can't decide if they're worth it at this point in my development. I have the digital pass that will allow me to buy them during Tennocon if I don't buy them now. The Pro is that they could help a lot in certain missions (endless survival, the Index, boss fights). The Con is that they will need a lot of resources to level up, resources that I could use elsewhere.

Could you guys help me decide which way to go before Baro leaves? Thanks a lot for your comments!

[taiiat]

Anti-Faction Mods are very powerful, but situational. they are an excellent Mod to use for any Weapon which already has its base Mods on (Multi/Damage, Crits if applicable, and a couple Elementals).

they're not a necessity to use, but they are very powerful. and then there's Primed versions of them thesedays on top of that...

[Wes8670]

Generally the credit cost and endo cost is quite a lot no matter which way you split it, picking them up if you can for collection purposes is always something you could do (if you do go that route). They are a benefit if you use them and max them out however they aren't a huge boost so if you wanted to coast until your digital pass you always could. Just don't feel like the world's gonna end if you do skip 'em.

[Ceryk]

It's hard to say... Honestly, I'd buy them even if you don't plan on ranking them up any time soon simply because he's likely going to have a lot of other stuff you might want during that TennoCon visit since he will literally have everything he's ever brought.

Whether or not it's worth you ranking them up right away though really depends on how many more necessary mods you need to rank.

[Faulcun]

A 90% elemental should provide a more consistent result. However they are really good for physical builds for elemental enhancement sorties.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Faulcun

[XenMaster]

I only use it for deth machine rifle with riven and that primed banes. which absolutely boost its damage, also it does good dps as long you keep using armor strip abilities and augments, banshee's Sonar damage multipliers, Nova's Molecular Prime, etc that allow sentinel weapons to deal more dmg.

[(XBOX)D34thst41ker]

Primed Bane mods do have some advantages: they increase damage against all members of their given faction regardless of defense type, they take up a single mod slot, and they use less Capacity than two 90% Elemental mods.

That said, they do have some major drawbacks. First, they're not easy to get. Sure, you just buy them from Baro, and Ducats aren't difficult to get, but Baro doesn't always have them. Second, leveling a Primed mod from Unranked to Rank 10 requires 1.5 Million Credits and 30-40k Endo. Each. Third, the damage from a Primed Bane is only +55%. Elements can spike as high as 75% when used appropriately. Finally, with the Primed Bane mods, you have to check your Arsenal, as using the wrong mod results in no damage  at all. With Elemental mods, even if the enemy isn't weak to the element you're using, they're still taking damage from it.

Overall, Primed Bane mods can be useful, but they have such huge drawbacks for relatively average gains that it's generally not worth the effort. I'd therefore pass on them unless you want them just to say you have them.

[Xzorn]

I use Primed Banes in every build though I've been playing for over 5 years.

In a direct comparison they come out to 5% less damage than Heavy Cal with no accuracy loss and they're always better than a 90% mod however when mixed with Rivens esp ones that have +%Damage on their roll Primed Bane will out perform Heavy Cal easily due to it being a multiplicative bonus. This is ignoring that they've been bugged for a year now though which long as they are. It's hard to beat them.

For the past year Primed Banes double dip into DoT effects like Bleed and Gas making them a mandatory mod slot for a lot of weapons.

Is it worth it for a mid-mastery player? Probably not. It will cost a lot of Endo and Credits to max all four and you probably have other mods to max first. I don't really see swapping build configs as a bad thing. You should be doing that anyways or it doesn't matter either way. You either want to bonus they provide or you don't need it so the wasted slot doesn't matter. They're worth it in the end but the end can be a long ways off depending how hard you play.

[(XBOX)D34thst41ker]

Honestly, I'm at a bit of a loss. Everything I've ever seen about the Warframe meta has indicated that the Bane mods in general aren't worth using, much less the Primed versions. You're the first person I've seen say that they're actually better than Element matching. You say they're multiplicative, and I understand why that's great. However, the flip side of this is that if they really are as great as you say, why are you the first person I've heard that uses them so much? You'd think that everyone would be using them.

I'd also be interested in comparing some of your builds for weapons you say basically require the Bane mods to the meta to try and get an idea of your thought process. What do you look for in a weapon that makes you decide that it needs a Bane mod?

[Xzorn]

54 minutes ago, (XB1)D34thst41ker said:

Honestly, I'm at a bit of a loss. Everything I've ever seen about the Warframe meta has indicated that the Bane mods in general aren't worth using, much less the Primed versions. You're the first person I've seen say that they're actually better than Element matching. You say they're multiplicative, and I understand why that's great. However, the flip side of this is that if they really are as great as you say, why are you the first person I've heard that uses them so much? You'd think that everyone would be using them.

I'd also be interested in comparing some of your builds for weapons you say basically require the Bane mods to the meta to try and get an idea of your thought process. What do you look for in a weapon that makes you decide that it needs a Bane mod?

 

I assume the investment is why they're not used much.

The gains without Rivens or buffs are minor though present. They're better than 90% mods, better than Heavy Cal on crit weapons because of no accuracy loss for head-shots and they're better than both Bladed Rounds and Argon Scope. All but the 90% mods have negatives while Prime Bane has non.

In case of a 3rd 90% the comparison can be more complex than measuring flat damage. Adding an additional element to the build will skew your status proc weights. Less Bleed procs, less Corrosive procs, Gas, ect. When dealing with armor or Gas damage most often a 60/60 mod will perform better than a 90% but in case of Primed Bane you don't change the proc weights of the weapon while also adding more damage.

When a Riven or ability buff with +%Damage is in play the performance of Primed Bane skyrockets. Say you have a Riven with +180% Damage or an Octavia with 200% Power Strength using her 4th ability.

Serration + Heavy Cal + 180% Riven
100 * (1 + 1.65 + 1.65 + 1.8) = 610
Serration + Primed Bane + 180% Riven
100 * (1 + 1.65 + 1.8) * 1.55 = 689.75

Serration + heavy Cal + Octavia 200% Power
100 * (1 + 1.65 + 1.65 + 3.5) = 780
Serration + Primed Bane + Octavia 200% Power
100 * (1 + 1.65 + 3.5) * 1.55 = 953.25

With every addition of +%Damage added through a Riven, Chroma buff, Mesa's buff, Octavia's buff, ect; Primed Bane gains damage output over Heavy Cal since it's a flat multiplicative bonus.

The reason I mentioned it as mandatory for some weapons was because it's bugged and has been for a year or so. The bonus from Primed Bane ( and other multiplicative sources ) is added to your damage and then added again for DoT effects. It's the same bug Chroma suffered from and Rhino still does. You can see for yourself in this pic.

Dread Yellow Crit Charge Shot Serration + P.Bane
200 * ( 1 + 1.65) * 1.55 = 821.5
821.5 * 2 * 0.35 = 575.05 Bleed per Tick
-
Actual Yellow Crit Charge Shot Serration + P.Bane
200 * (1 + 1.65) * 1.55 = 821.5
530 * 2 * 1.55 * 0.35 = 891 Bleed per Tick

The left side shows Primed Bane being applied twice. The first calculation is what the bleed proc should be. The right side is just showing that Roar also double dips. So for any DoT based weapon I would say Primed Bane is mandatory for now but in most cases it's still the best option without that bug. I just wouldn't claim it as mandatory at that point because the gains are small outside the right conditions. Esp for the investment.

In the end Primed Bane often just replaces Heavy Cal for better scaling and group synergy. It's better because of it's potential with no negatives more than a direct DPS comparison without other variables in play.

EDIT: Woops wrong pic.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Xzorn

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Not worth it unless you really like micromanaging or have a specific weapon for each faction.  A regular build optimized for your weapon can carry you through any sortie.  I don't even bother to change the elements on my weapons, let alone put on Banes and I do just fine.

[hooperinius]

If you have lots of Endo and credits why not, the grineer one is very useful for sorties. You can live without them though as they aren't "must have" items.

[tprx]

Thanks for all the advice! I finally bought them, but It'll probably be a while before I fill them up and use them.

Btw, don't you think a Bane of Sentients would be useful?

[Tokomi_]

No ☺