Banshee Resonating Quake "fix"

[Navindal]

Can we address this "fix"?

Before today, Resonating Quake was a fine build to clear low level content like defense or interception, not overly powerful, but at least you had an option to run without trinity. Today the "fix" quadrupled the cost of quake cast and it's no longer worth using at all - why would someone take banshee as aoe dps if they can bring equinox who will do the job better, faster and buff the team with 70% more power strength?

If you wanna keep the cost, the damage has to go up, a lot, right now it already requires multiple casts to kill grineer mobs in normal onslaught wave 6+ (220 strength), coupled with 100 energy cost, it's just pathetic.

[sixmille]

So you're saying Equinox needs fixes too, that's all. Well banshee is still going to make the game boring, don't worry, it's just a bit more complicated now.

[GinKenshin]

well the fix did it's job then, which is fixing broken 'playstyles'

don't worry, equinox is on her way, she's priming soon so expect a rework 

safe to assume DE tolerates no more of this cheese

[Navindal]

So, fix to all the problems is: make it require trinity in a team?

Talk about broken play-styles and boring game (20 min of pressing 2 in onslaught as trinity, so fun 😄 )

Furthermore - what's the point of quake now - it doesn't do damage, you cannot chain cast it either, the cc is meaningless since you cannot spam it, basically it is useless ability.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Navindal

[DJ_Vauban]

I'm really against cheese so...In my eyes this IS a fix. If you want to get somewhere without doing anything, you might as well play an idle game.

[Navindal]

2 minutes ago, DJ_Vauban said:

I'm really against cheese so...In my eyes this IS a fix. If you want to get somewhere without doing anything, you might as well play an idle game.

Then why do they add game mode that is literally built for cheese, namely Onslaught?

It has small maps, with a lot of line of sight issues, it requires continuous killing to keep going and promotes that even more with focus rewards.

Only thing that has changed is there is even less choice what to play there...

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Navindal:

Then why do they add game mode that is literally built for cheese, namely Onslaught?

Probably to easily identify said cheese tactics so they can eventually fix them 😉 ...

Tinfoil hat off: Yeah the efficiency is pretty off for "regular" gameplay, but i don't think it's intentional to push ppl into "drinking bird" gameplay as at least officially they took a clear stance against that (although their actions indeed seem to hint otherwise sometimes...).

vor 13 Minuten schrieb sixmille:

So you're saying Equinox needs fixes too, that's all.

 

vor 13 Minuten schrieb GinKenshin:

well the fix did it's job then, which is fixing broken 'playstyles'

don't worry, equinox is on her way, she's priming soon so expect a rework

 

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Navindal:

Talk about broken play-styles and boring game (20 min of pressing 2 in onslaught as trinity, so fun 😄 )

 

vor 11 Minuten schrieb DJ_Vauban:

I'm really against cheese so...In my eyes this IS a fix. If you want to get somewhere without doing anything, you might as well play an idle game.

the amount of sanity in this thread is downright overwhelming ❤️

[DJ_Vauban]

13 minutes ago, Navindal said:

Then why do they add game mode that is literally built for cheese, namely Onslaught?

It has small maps, with a lot of line of sight issues, it requires continuous killing to keep going and promotes that even more with focus rewards.

Only thing that has changed is there is even less choice what to play there...

You're getting something wrong, the game mode wasn't build for cheese, it's the players that (ab)use certain game mechanics that TURN it into cheese, Equinox, memestrike and Banshee are coming to mind. I doubt DE created Onslaught for people to just burn through it, it was supposed to be endgame content, yet players with utterly broken builds can rush through it without any issue whatsoever.

In my eyes, Onslaught is a step in the right direction, especially with Simaris taking away your powers if you abuse them too much, but for it to actually be hard, we would need even more restrictions, restrictions that vary from frame to frame. You're supposed to actually  "kinda" work for your rewards in Onslaught, not idle-cheese it.

Basically, people don't want to watch ONE person kill everything while they sit back and get to do nothing.

Edited May 17, 2018 by DJ_Vauban

[Navindal]

10 minutes ago, DJ_Vauban said:

You're getting something wrong, the game mode wasn't build for cheese, it's the players that (ab)use certain game mechanics that TURN it into cheese, Equinox, memestrike and Banshee are coming to mind. I doubt DE created Onslaught for people to just burn through it, it was supposed to be endgame content, yet players with utterly broken builds can rush through it without any issue whatsoever.

In my eyes, Onslaught is a step in the right direction, especially with Simaris taking away your powers if you abuse them too much, but for it to actually be hard, we would need even more restrictions, restrictions that vary from frame to frame. You're supposed to actually  "kinda" work for your rewards in Onslaught, not idle-cheese it.

 

No, I am not getting it wrong. It's difficult to reach wave 8 without those "cheese" tactics - the efficiency drain is build around you killing hundreds of enemies per wave in maps which often make it very hard (obstacles, different levels) to do so. So only thing they are achieving now is less choice what to bring.

As I said at the start, I am fine with the cost, but they need to bring damage to this ability - right now it hits like wet noodles but costs a lot - just doesn't make sense - better just use Sonar build (but hey, maybe should nerf that too, you can 1-shot multiple enemies with it and Amprex or Ignis).

EDIT: Simaris only takes away 4, you can spam EV every half second if you like as Trinity - that's fine!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Navindal

[CFodder1977]

I was surprised by this "fix" as well. Banshee has no real use anymore. The AOE damage was minimal beyond very low level mobs. After that, it was only good for use as a means to help cc ... a necessity considering the frame's low survivabliity. Now Banshee has no cc ability, does practically no substantial damage, and pretty much zero surviavability (i.e. she is completely useless).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Before calling out equinox as being cheese remember that unlike Banshee she actually has to build up damage with kills in order for maim to be lethal.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Navindal:

It's difficult to reach wave 8 without those "cheese" tactics

Yeah and it's supposed to be (at least slightly*) difficult:

vor 46 Minuten schrieb DJ_Vauban:

it was supposed to be endgame content

___

Only Elite mode sometimes is literally (next to) unbeatable because of broken spawns.

*Edit: Tbqh lol @ the notion that not being able to press the same button for 20 minutes straight to win="difficult".

Edited May 17, 2018 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[CFodder1977]

Personally, I'm not upset that I can't just "press the same button for 20 mins straight to win." It's that no button I press while using Banshee accomplishes much of anything now. 4 was the only thing Banshee had going for her and -- beyond low level mobs -- it was only good for cc. She's squishy and -- without 4 -- now has zero utility. Hell, she can't even fly (like the next most worthless frame, Titania).

[Navindal]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Before calling out equinox as being cheese remember that unlike Banshee she actually has to build up damage with kills in order for maim to be lethal.

Not really... if you run with Rhino (most "cheese" teams do) and build for high enough strength (mine has ~270 with augment for 3, will be close to 300 when I get primed continuity), your slash is powerful enough to kill most of normal enemies, and you only need few to die to nuke everything else.

 

10 minutes ago, CFodder1977 said:

Personally, I'm not upset that I can't just "press the same button for 20 mins straight to win." It's that no button I press while using Banshee accomplishes much of anything now. 4 was the only thing Banshee had going for her and -- beyond low level mobs -- it was only good for cc. She's squishy and -- without 4 -- now has zero utility. Hell, she can't even fly (like the next most worthless frame, Titania).

Right on spot. Although I would argue, that sonar with augment in still fun, but mostly used to "cheese" high index now.

[DjKaplis]

2 hours ago, Navindal said:

Can we address this "fix"?

Before today, Resonating Quake was a fine build to clear low level content like defense or interception, not overly powerful, but at least you had an option to run without trinity. Today the "fix" quadrupled the cost of quake cast and it's no longer worth using at all - why would someone take banshee as aoe dps if they can bring equinox who will do the job better, faster and buff the team with 70% more power strength?

If you wanna keep the cost, the damage has to go up, a lot, right now it already requires multiple casts to kill grineer mobs in normal onslaught wave 6+ (220 strength), coupled with 100 energy cost, it's just pathetic.

When Banshee augment change first appeared i was very surprised that it cost so little amount of energy to cast. Definitely reasonable change as all other 4th abilities that work in a similar way cost the same.

So in addressing this fix - good that it is fixed.

[Navindal]

29 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

When Banshee augment change first appeared i was very surprised that it cost so little amount of energy to cast. Definitely reasonable change as all other 4th abilities that work in a similar way cost the same.

So in addressing this fix - good that it is fixed.

Name one that has low dmg, miniscule cc, is not channeled and still costs this much energy.

On the side note - if the goal was to fix "cheesing" frames, then they failed - new Saryn is absurd in high-density small rooms (defense, onslaught) and doesn't need energy either.

[sixmille]

Il y a 2 heures, CFodder1977 a dit :

Personally, I'm not upset that I can't just "press the same button for 20 mins straight to win." It's that no button I press while using Banshee accomplishes much of anything now. 4 was the only thing Banshee had going for her and -- beyond low level mobs -- it was only good for cc. She's squishy and -- without 4 -- now has zero utility. Hell, she can't even fly (like the next most worthless frame, Titania).

lol? Banshee is an excellent warframe. Read the wiki seriously. 1 is free finisher 2 is x20 damage 3 is the defensive ability and 4 is either good damage or CC.

[Iseecko]

There is definitely an issue with Banshee’s Sound Quake ability cost. I have it modded so that it costs 16 energy/cast, but it’s currently using around 50, EVEN THOUGH her ability still says that it costs 16. PLEASE fix this.

[MiraClena]

4 hours ago, sixmille said:

lol? Banshee is an excellent warframe. Read the wiki seriously. 1 is free finisher 2 is x20 damage 3 is the defensive ability and 4 is either good damage or CC.

Bring them to sortie and tell me which of them is useful unless you are using subpar weapon (one with no potato and forma), if you take away her ability to cheese (which they didn't).

Sure, she is relevant once you go above that, but it isn't really fun for most people to sit out for multiple rotation in endless mission for post lv 100 mobs.

Though, I would say that she can still easily cheese with a trinity in team.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MiraClena

[NezuHimeSama]

imho, they should turn resoquake into a support ability, making it a duration based continuous otherwise-normal quake. Basically "if you don't want to be locked to the ground when using quake, use the aug".

Kind of like Assimilate, but less OP.

Edited May 18, 2018 by NezuHimeSama

[Praesagium]

Well they "fix" the energy cost, but they didnt update the information in game.

Just put streamline and fleeting expertise for a cheap cost of 25 energy, you can recover that with 5sec zenurik level 4 or 5, its not that bad for low level i believe.

[Secret_Bunny]

I love Banshee in her different forms. Her sonar build is amazing when you want to play the fun/challenging part of the game. But I think she needs that other side as well. Her resonating quake allows the new to mid level players a chance to catch up, and farm without getting burnt out. I want to play the game, and spend more time than I should doing so, but focus farming is a drag. Especially now that it takes sooo much focus to unbind waybound abilities, not to mention the amount of focus it takes for a Unairu to get the pool they need. Meeting my focus cap is like doing my chores before I get to have fun. The game has great story and fun content, but the grind can get dull. I thought this new onslaught was a way to fix the fact that DE had made the grind too much. But they have taken it away, and it makes me sad. Not just for the lost focus, but for the way DE seems to feel about the player base. I feel like they are trying to punish us for figuring out how to do something efficiently. As a process engineer, I think this is something to be proud of, but that is besides the point. I don't only play the game with cheese, but if cheese lets me get the grind out of the way in order to actually have fun, then so be it. Are people so afraid that those who cheese too much will surpass them? If you don't like "cheese" to efficiently farm then don't do it, and let others play the game as they choose.

The new state will only create a huge class divide. Those that are already high level and have a lot of focus trees unlocked will dominate, while the new and mid levels will never get to catch up. I'm MR 18 so I'm not top tier. I'm also not a newbie or a power gamer. This is actually the first video game that I have ever played for more than a few hours. I have invested time, thought, and passion into this game. It has allowed me to bond with my step daughter. I'm not saying I will stop playing. I love the game too much. But I am rethinking buying that digital TennoCon ticket, and using the plat discount login bonuses. I feel a bit like I'm being scolded for finding a way to play the game that fits into my busy schedule, while still staying relevant. There needs to be a balance between fun and grinding. I want to play Warframe, not Warfarm.

DE, you have a great game and a solid fan base. If you want to stop cheese then you need to address how much time and energy it takes to make progress in focus schools without it. Also, and this is the MOST important part. It was underhanded to hide the banshee changes in a line item at the bottom of the notes under fixes. That disappointed me more than anything. You may say that it always said it cost 100, but that is not the case. Banshee without efficiency cost 25 for her quake since I started playing her. All of my clan mates say the same. If you meant for it to be 100 then just come out and say that. If you make a mistake and own up to it I think others are more likely to accept the new status quo. 

And to players that just join in random groups and quake everything... this is your fault. Way to ruin it for everyone. It's a tool that has it's place, but shouldn't be your only tool.

[RealPandemonium]

17 hours ago, Navindal said:

Can we address this "fix"?

Before today, Resonating Quake was a fine build to clear low level content like defense or interception, not overly powerful, but at least you had an option to run without trinity. Today the "fix" quadrupled the cost of quake cast and it's no longer worth using at all - why would someone take banshee as aoe dps if they can bring equinox who will do the job better, faster and buff the team with 70% more power strength?

If you wanna keep the cost, the damage has to go up, a lot, right now it already requires multiple casts to kill grineer mobs in normal onslaught wave 6+ (220 strength), coupled with 100 energy cost, it's just pathetic.

It's her ultimate, dude.  It's supposed to cost 100 (25) energy, not 25 (6.25.)  Paying 6.25 energy for a massive nuke with 35m base range (longer than anything else in the game) is pretty nonsensical.  You could argue even 25 is too little, when you consider that old Resonating Quake would double its energy cost at max spool. 

Banshee is preferable for affinity farming due to her massive range advantage over other frames, which allows her to kill at a faster rate on most maps. 

If you want to kill Grineer with it, bring CPs.  Ferrite armor cuts Blast damage by 50% and also applies 150% of its normal armor rating to it, which pretty much neuters Blast as an option against most Grineer.  

Edited May 18, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Navindal]

6 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

It's her ultimate, dude.  It's supposed to cost 100 (25) energy, not 25 (6.25.)  Paying 6.25 energy for a massive nuke with 35m base range (longer than anything else in the game) is pretty nonsensical.  You could argue even 25 is too little, when you consider that old Resonating Quake would double its energy cost at max spool. 

Banshee is preferable for affinity farming due to her massive range advantage over other frames, which allows her to kill at a faster rate on most maps. 

If you want to kill Grineer with it, bring CPs.  Ferrite armor cuts Blast damage by 50% and also applies 150% of its normal armor rating to it, which pretty much neuters Blast as an option against most Grineer.  

Well, that's the thing - if you wanted it to be massive, it would never cost 6.25. Due to how the resonating quake augment works (damage decays the further you go), you want as much range as possible, which means you need strength to offset overextended, which means using blind rage.

Ofc, you can opt not to use it, but then you are looking at 140% strength. Best you can do is 209% strength and 135% efficiency, which still puts current energy cost at 65. which is still way too high for ability you need to cast multiple times to kill enemies in zone 5+ of normal onslaught.

And no, Banshee is no longer preferable for affinity farming - you can do same thing with equinox, do it faster and don't need trinity/energy pads. Oh, and you can actually move around and shoot, instead of being stuck in same spot pressing 4 😄

[Prof.549]

On 2018-05-17 at 7:35 PM, Navindal said:

70% more power strength?

Pffft, what a useless Equi buffer. I'd leave if encounter that.