Ember is Far From Okay

[(PSN)Chel-El]

On 2018-05-21 at 3:32 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

She can actually dish great damage if you have heat on your weapons since 2 of the 3 abilities she has buffs heat damage quite well.

Just by buffing 1 by priming it with 2 I had great results 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Chel-El:

Just by buffing 1 by priming it with 2 I had great results 

Her 1 also goes great with melee... using a full heat zenistar on her is insane. Her 4 takes care of everything in midrange, her 1 can be used to take care of enemys from a distance and her 2 buffs all.

Edited May 24, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Arcira]

 

 

On 2018-05-23 at 6:43 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Why yes, especially when it is strong enough to weed out small fries. 5 enemys at a time is unrelyable Cc in the first place and hardly something that kept her alive previously, in small range, it attacks simply everything in range. Period. To set eather knockdown or panic Cc with a chance, what's not only Cc but hard Cc that indeed works great with mobility, is not essencial something a glass cannon would have.

I never said it was very good cc but I did notice a significant increase deaths while playing in higher levels after the rework. I never needed a QT build before but now I do.Panic is very very weak cc because it can´t be refreshed and enemies are immune for few seconds after they recover.

Also aside from Bashee´s Silence maybe I can´t find many sources of soft cc from warframes. Glass cannon is a very vague classification but insn´t really a restriction. Assassins for example often use blinds or slows in games and caster have a big variety of cc abilities for example cold, shock, stun, roots etc.

On 2018-05-23 at 6:43 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Forget the math since similar numbers emerge from armor centered frames too... or everything that doesn't feature a damage reduction at all imo. What's affecting but a hand full of frames right now including gara, trin and nekros. Maybe rhino with his recent augument too but that's really just about it. Let us rather compare it to other frames that qualify for that playstyle at all starting from 

*Loki p - 75 (225) health, 175 (262) energy, 65 armor 

Who's entire survivability is his invisibility.

*Oberon p - 125 (375) health, 175 (262) energy, 225 armor

Who is centered around compensating the damage with hot's

Volt p - 100 (300) health, 200 (300) energy, 100 armor

Who's running slightly better stats with nothing but active Cc

Saryn p - now 125 (375) health, 200 (300) energy, 300 armor

Who doesn't have anything but her decoy standing between her and the enemys

I don´t see a need for Loki or Oberon building Qt though.

As you said Loki has invisibility the most broken thing in the entire game as well as an permanent aoe disarm and agro shift with his decoy. I´d say he´s the saves choice you can pick.

In my opinion Oberon isn´t as bad either. With a renewal build for example I can face tank sortie lvl enemies.

Saryn doesn´t have very good survivability that´s true. However she got a massive buff to her aoe damage nuke. Dead enemies can´t kill you.

Can´t say something about Volt. I never really played him aside from teralyst farming.

In fact there are not many Warframes I´d build for QT. The stagger is a massive downside and most of them have much better options anyway (Ash, Chroma, Mesa, Valkyr, Nekros, Ivara, etc...)

On 2018-05-23 at 6:43 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Why not raising her stats instead? Why not boosting fire blast? Raising her status chance, making the Accelerant boost a buff rather then a dbuff? Changing her passive to make fire proccs by her more viable? Anything you hear these days is people painting her worse that she is to a single goddarn end and that is an issue right there. Sure OP made clear that the range isn't what he wants but did it really not solve her biggest issue?

Base stats are not as impactful as cc in this game because it ignores enemy scaling. Accelerant is very good as it stands and besides it doesn´t matter wether it´s a damage buff or debuff because it doesn´t affect resistances or something in which case it would probably be a nerf.

It was stated that the problem was the afk and low level nuke playstyle. These are problems with the damage output not her cc. There are alot of good suggestions like lower the damage the further enemies are away or a line of sight change to keep it balanced between closed and open world tilesets. Why was there a need to reduce the range including her already lacking cc/survivability?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Arcira:

-snip-

I'd classify volt as a glass cannon. His stats are a tad superior to embers but there's a significant difference in theyr kits trough his need to cast and long animations. One missed shock, one poor timed overload and you're done for.

There's indeed also banshee, nova, vauban...all of the bigger Cc frames that require prolonged input, spamming of the ever same abilities and groups surrounding them to keep them safe. Loki is also among them who, as i've mentioned in another quote, is made just as bad in the rare rework threads that pop up every now and then. Invisibility may be as good as it is but it doesn't protect him from stray bullets, mines or aoe attacks. Anything is lethal for him without QT in levels ember does just fine.

Oberon is cool too but even he needs eather QT or Phönix renewal in sortie levels. QT beein the more reliable option due to the reset timer and saryn, her heal is really just greater then oberons by default and she's still glas. 

...anything but reductions supported by armor falls down in higher levels. (mathematicly somewhere on pre nerf ice chromas peak) ..even Cc does without propper energy management (how would you get energy without a trin, harrow or plates once you're unable to kill fast enough?) so the best you can hope for in a frame is a combination of basic survivability and Cc... ember does provide that.

May just be me having a feel for her but i haven't died once ever since her rework (under normal circumstances that is...QT buggs out a lil recently) in levels where i die a lot with volt or really just most frames. The panic is one thing, her accelerant stun another. Her WoF augument ignores those dead zones, so does fire blasts knockback that sets enemys up for another panic... she combines a lot types of hard and soft Cc. Utilicing them is what makes the difference imo, not just the modding.... sure is different to her prior toxic max range strategy that not only Cc'd but also ultimately killed most of the enemys approaching but it didn't really change to the worse. She's stronger in mindrange now, isn't that greedy for range and a QT/rage build provides energy to use her full kit..i can even use her for melee right now. I really fail to see the downside to this.

[twitchingDoe]

I do think ember is a little weak as of before her recent rework.. even with a 9 forma build you could only "pop" under level 40 monsters with world of fire accelerated and after you could only surpress 3 at a time (cc). Putting so much into such a build I should expact nothing less than under 40's to pop nearing on a near maxed out ember! 😂

[Maka.Bones]

On 2018-05-23 at 8:07 PM, RealPandemonium said:

If a frame isn't for you, don't use it.  Plenty of alternatives.

It's not a case of a frame "not being for you".... it's that it sucks. 

 

Kraken sucks, but there are many other secondary alternatives to use... however those are different weapon tiers than a *warframe* who isn't simply a side-arm.... Warframes are meant to establish a pace/tone/theme for your gameplay experience. They're not meant as an "upgrade" rather than a different experience altogether... so a "side-grade" would be more accurate. Except that ember can't be a side-grade, when compared to any other warframe. Literally anything else will outperform her, in the capacities that she's supposed to be good in. Yet she's not even a starter frame. Seems pretty goofed up to me. 

[EinheriarJudith]

45 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

It's not a case of a frame "not being for you".... it's that it sucks. 

 

Kraken sucks, but there are many other secondary alternatives to use... however those are different weapon tiers than a *warframe* who isn't simply a side-arm.... Warframes are meant to establish a pace/tone/theme for your gameplay experience. They're not meant as an "upgrade" rather than a different experience altogether... so a "side-grade" would be more accurate. Except that ember can't be a side-grade, when compared to any other warframe. Literally anything else will outperform her, in the capacities that she's supposed to be good in. Yet she's not even a starter frame. Seems pretty goofed up to me. 

if the pace/tone/theme isnt for you, would you not pick a different frame to play? who in the entire line up of frames can out do ember in buffing and dealing heat damage? none of them.

Edited May 25, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Maka.Bones]

Btw i've made a lot of posts about this same subject. 

Yes ember is usable.... but she's no longer on-par with anything new that's being added into the game. This includes new warframes/weapons, and new enemies. However, My main issue is that her re-work felt lacking... As if it wasn't finished, or it could've been fine-tuned a bit better. 

 

Have fun reading all of these

 

My first re-work suggestion, before patch hit:

 

 My second re-work suggestion, before changes:

 

My feedback about changes:

 

Thoughts after more testing: 

 

More ember re-work ideas (3rd one total, 1st after changes):

 

And again... 4th total re-work idea... these are the most effective, yet practical suggestions I had seen, or had thought of:

 

Post for discussing alternate power types for ember, as a different option for survivability & dynamic gameplay:

 

Post about the constant redundant "weapon damage buffs" ember has:

 

Post for discussing improvements for fireball... to make it into ember's actual "bread & butter"

 

Evidence that ember's changes were indeed an overall nerf:

 

Discussing possible changes/buffs for ember's fireball (to actually make it into her bread & butter, and allow it to scale against higher lvls): 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

11 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if the pace/tone/theme isnt for you, would you not pick a different frame to play? who in the entire line up of frames can out do ember in buffing and dealing heat damage? none of them.

Exactly my point: None of them. Not even ember...

Because she can't even do the thing that *only she does* well/fun enough to be considered anymore. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Exactly my point: None of them. Not even ember...

Because she can't even do the thing that *only she does* well enough to be considered. 

hahaha are you being serious? flash accelerant and fire blast boost heat damage into insanity. are you one of those afk farmers?

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, _Doe_ said:

I do think ember is a little weak as of before her recent rework.. even with a 9 forma build you could only "pop" under level 40 monsters with world of fire accelerated and after you could only surpress 3 at a time (cc). Putting so much into such a build I should expact nothing less than under 40's to pop nearing on a near maxed out ember! 😂

I'm tired of reading half-baked feedback like this.

WoF is passive damage, and quite a bit for what it is.  With 200% powerstr, Accelerant-boosted WoF is dealing 400 * 2 * 2.5 * 2 = 4000 damage per tick.  My most recent test of Single target DPS in simulacrum shows 2.5 ticks per second, for a procless DPS of 10,000.  With Heat proc accounted for, DPS goes up to 12,000.  With Flash Accelerant, DPS is up to 14,000.  Against multiple targets, the combined DPS goes up to 15,000, or 20,000 with Flash Accelerant.  This is between 12k and 20k  DPS that is totally passive, allowing you to do anything you want while it happens.  WoF also provides CC through its procs.  The CC lasts 2-4 seconds depending on the enemy type, with humanoids panicking for the maximum 4 seconds.  This creates a CC rotation that can have 2.5 * 4 = 10 enemies disabled at a given time, also totally passively.  

44 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

It's not a case of a frame "not being for you".... it's that it sucks. 

 

Kraken sucks, but there are many other secondary alternatives to use... however those are different weapon tiers than a *warframe* who isn't simply a side-arm.... Warframes are meant to establish a pace/tone/theme for your gameplay experience. They're not meant as an "upgrade" rather than a different experience altogether... so a "side-grade" would be more accurate. Except that ember can't be a side-grade, when compared to any other warframe. Literally anything else will outperform her, in the capacities that she's supposed to be good in. Yet she's not even a starter frame. Seems pretty goofed up to me. 

Many players have no trouble bringing Ember to level 120+.  If you are finding difficulty, there is one variable that's changed, there.

This game's "difficulty slider" when it comes to frame selection is a slippery slope to the bottom.  You can, instead of Ember, play a frame like Rhino or Loki and never take damage or be in any danger for the whole mission.  When compared to frames like that, it's easy to conclude that Ember is insufficient.  The thing is, Ember is sufficient for all of the game's regular content and even beyond into optional long runs.  Frames that reduce the game down to "press an ability or two every 10 seconds and it becomes impossible to lose" break the game.  They are not merely sufficient; they are too powerful.  But DE leaves stuff like that in, partially because their own awareness of it is limited, and partially because a lot of their paying customers decline to play the game any other way.

Warframe as whole has been pretty goofed up for a long time, but Ember is an example of an interesting design who has cheese available to her but requires user input to succeed.  It's not a comfy "Warframe and Netflix" kind of frame like most of the popular ones.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

hahaha are you being serious? flash accelerant and fire blast boost heat damage into insanity. are you one of those afk farmers?

Insanity? Really? You mean the same damage that I could simply do with the optimal weapon build?  Because they don't offer anymore damage than I would already get with a good build, or a riven, or rhino/mirage/nova/saryn. 

Weapon damage isn't unique. Weapon damage doesn't allow me to kill my enemies via hurling fireballs, or waves of fire towards my enemies. 

 

Weapon damage is no different than any other generic FPS. 

[Maka.Bones]

27 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

I'm tired of reading half-baked feedback like this.

*snip*

And i'm tired of people as yourself, speaking in a condescending tone that makes me feel as if you don't think that my comments/concerns/issues are valid. 

 

I'll repeat myself:

It's not that ember isn't usable... it's that she doesn't bring anything unique.

Sure, I can use her in lvls 120+... by playing her the same way that I would play radial-blind excalibur, or a warframe with no abilities.  Yes, it's doable. It's not "ember" though. She's not contributing anything unique, or significant that I can't do by myself already. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

Her flashy "fire" abilities, don't actually contribute significantly at mid-higher lvls. 

You can do without using her weapon damage altogether, and still complete sortie missions. I've done it before. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[RealPandemonium]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

And i'm tired of people as yourself, speaking in an arrogant/condescending tone that makes it seem as if my comments/concerns/issues weren't valid lol. 

 

I'll repeat myself:

It's not that ember isn't usable... it's that she doesn't bring anything unique.

Sure, I can use her in lvls 120+... by playing her the same way that I would play radial-blind excalibur, or a warframe with no abilities.  Yes, it's doable. It's not "ember" though. She's not contributing anything unique, or significant that I can't do by myself already. 

We can break this down further and say all frames with radial CC are the same so they're all in need of reworks for originality.  All frames with damage abilities are useless because Maim scales.  Banshee is the only frame worth playing; she has the most range and flat damage, but while we're at it lets change it from Blast to True damage so that we can cut the middle man and get our rewards rollin' out.

The point of the game is to have fun.  The bottom line is that Ember isn't fun for you, so you don't like her.  If you won't acknowledge the aspects of her design that make her fun for many players, you're leaving things out of your analysis so that you can say what you feel without tempering it for a reasoned discussion.

[Maka.Bones]

26 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

We can break this down further and say all frames with radial CC are the same so they're all in need of reworks for originality.  All frames with damage abilities are useless because Maim scales.  Banshee is the only frame worth playing; she has the most range and flat damage, but while we're at it lets change it from Blast to True damage so that we can cut the middle man and get our rewards rollin' out.

The point of the game is to have fun.  The bottom line is that Ember isn't fun for you, so you don't like her.  If you won't acknowledge the aspects of her design that make her fun for many players, you're leaving things out of your analysis so that you can say what you feel without tempering it for a reasoned discussion.

Alright, i'll use excalibur as an example. Maybe this will better help you understand what I mean.

Excalibur is made to be "flashy" in the literal sense. His theme is about swords & light.

1. He has a sword made out of light/energy
2. has 3 different blinds, and they all work on ALL enemies
3. each different blind also has different functions
4. his passive directly helps his abilities, as well as helping regular melee swords

Ember is made to be a "fiery" caster of a warframe.

1. Ember's passive requires her to be on fire... it seldom helps her, and more often than not will get her straight-out killed. It's a passive that virtually can't be used against higher-lvl enemies. 
2. 3 of her fire abilities, offer the same 4 flavors: Watered down CC, watered down fire damage, watered down weapon damage, watered down status (I would prefer if each ability did 1-2 things effectively, than 4 things ineffectively)
3. Fireballs have difficulty killing lvl 40+ enemies. They're also ineffective as CC against lvl 80+ enemies, or eximus units
4. Her "accelerant" as a stun, only lasts 4s, and it also doesn't work on all enemies.
5. Her fireblast's KD only last 4s, and the cast time takes about 1.5s... the remaining fire doesn't last very long, and the KD effect doesn't chain with enemies stunned by accelerant, or by WoF
6. The fire damage added to weapons is by far the only significant damage source.... WHEN you also use it against an enemy that's primed by accelerant. However this requires building your weapons *strictly* for ember..... Which results in more work, for similar (or less) damage than the optimal build for said weapon, would already do. 
7. WoF+firequake is *STILL* her most practical, and universally adaptable ability. Though it's mostly due to firequake having 100% proc chance. Because for firequake to be effective, you need to sacrifice power, for range, duration, and efficiency. Meaning that WoF's status proc chance, goes down the drain. 

 

In short, her fire doesn't really do much of the killing, damage mitigating, CCing, or much of anything really. 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

@RealPandemonium your arguments are sound, and logical. However they're completely ignoring that ember's fire theme is *practically* useless against anything mid-higher lvl. Her main theme loses momentum, and usability at higher lvls. Yes she can be played, but it isn't by virtue of of ember's unique kit/abilities. (rather, that she doesn't offer any unique/creative ways to use her "fire" theme, to dispatch her enemies)

 

I would prefer a completely different fire-themed warframe, than what she currently is. Except I don't have another option. 

 

*Edit* Also, who are you even seeing playing as ember? I barely see any of them around, unless they're meme-ing lower lvl content, or fissure runs. (so the re-work didn't really achieve their target goal... yet another reason to re-touch her)

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[RealPandemonium]

43 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Alright, i'll use excalibur as an example. Maybe this will better help you understand what I mean.

Excalibur is made to be "flashy" in the literal sense. 

1. He has a sword made out of light/energy
2. has 3 different blinds, and they all work on ALL enemies
3. each different blind also has different functions
4. his passive directly helps his abilities, as well as some of his melee weapons

Ember is made to be a "fiery" caster of a warframe.

1. Fireballs have difficulty killing lvl 40+ enemies. They're also ineffective as CC against lvl 80+ enemies, or eximus units
2. Her "accelerant" as a stun, only lasts 4s, and it also doesn't work on all enemies.
3. Her fireblast's KD only last 4s, and the cast time takes about 1.5s... the remaining fire doesn't last very long, and the KD effect doesn't chain with enemies stunned by accelerant, or by WoF
4. The fire damage added to weapons is by far the only significant damage source.... WHEN you also use it against an enemy that's primed by accelerant. However this requires building your weapons *strictly* for ember..... Which results in more work, for similar (or less) damage than the optimal build for said weapon, would already do. 
5. WoF+firequake is *STILL* her most practical, and universally adaptable ability. Though it's mostly due to firequake having 100% proc chance. Because for firequake to be effective, you need to sacrifice power, for range, duration, and efficiency. Meaning that WoF's status proc chance, goes down the drain. 

Regarding Excalibur:

1. Cool

2. Blinds are LoS limited, but I guess they affect drones so I'll give you that

3. Not sure what you mean by this; besides Radial Blind what are the other two blinds?

4. The passive's impact is substantial but not a gamechanger, but this is lopsided because Ember basically doesn't have a passive.

Regarding Ember:

1. 1 abilities generally aren't a mainstay killing tool later in the game unless they are exalted abilities.  CC time is consistent across enemy levels, and only some eximus units resist CC to a degree due to the effect of their aura.  Eximus burn just like any unit.

2. Accelerant doesn't work on drones, but that's pretty much it.  It also doesn't have a LoS limitation or a cooldown, which makes it superior compared to some other popular area stuns.  The power duration-independent nature of Accelerant's stun also allows you to lower power duration without making it less effective.  Four seconds is plenty long to get the job done; brainless "stun the whole tile indefinitely" abilities have run rampant for long enough IMO.  You can always chaincast in a pinch, anyway.

3. Fire Blast not knocking down or pushing enemies affected by Accelerant is a known bug.  I hope they fix it eventually.  

4. Flash Accelerant and Fireball Frenzy go a good way toward remedying this, but if your allies bring heat damage (not a bad second element after Corrosive, especially on a status build) then they will enjoy Accelerant's damage boost even more.  Enemies will be primed by Accelerant in general if Ember is doing her job.

5. This is an opinion you're entitled to have, but I've already explained in other threads why Firequake's usefulness is dubious.  Most players who like Ember corroborate my view that Firequake is only slightly more consistent than WoF with a high power strength, and is thus not worth sacrificing the extra damage that you get from higher power strength.  If you're running Overextended, you might as well use Rhino or something so that you don't have to press the stun button as often (but Accelerant's lack of a cooldown can make it more flexible and energy-efficient than Stomp in less-than-ideal circumstances.)

Edited May 25, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

3. Not sure what you mean by this; besides Radial Blind what are the other two blinds?

1) Radial blind

2) Radial Javelin, also blinds. 

3) Exalted blade, blinds whenever you make a spin attack

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

15 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

2. Accelerant doesn't work on drones, but that's pretty much it.  It also doesn't have a LoS limitation or a cooldown, which makes it superior compared to some other popular area stuns.  The power duration-independent nature of Accelerant's stun also allows you to lower power duration without making it less effective.  Four seconds is plenty long to get the job done; brainless "stun the whole tile indefinitely" abilities have run rampant for long enough IMO.  You can always chaincast in a pinch, anyway.

Accelerant doesn't work on eximus units either... and I don't think it works on bursas, but i'm not sure bout them

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

2. Blinds are LoS limited, but I guess they affect drones so I'll give you that

Idm LoS limitation... i'd rather the ones who arent in my LoS aren't stunned, so they can keep chasing after me. Easier to find them like that. 

[Maka.Bones]

7 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

4. Flash Accelerant and Fireball Frenzy go a good way toward remedying this, but if your allies bring heat damage (not a bad second element after Corrosive, especially on a status build) then they will enjoy Accelerant's damage boost even more.  Enemies will be primed by Accelerant in general if Ember is doing her job.

Flash accelerant has a really annoying "animation delay" which makes her movement completely stop... even in mid-air.  This makes her frustrating to play with a fluid feel. It also spells certain doom, if there are already projectiles heading in your direction.

[RealPandemonium]

21 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

In short, her fire doesn't really do much of the killing. 

 

12 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

(rather, that she doesn't offer any unique/creative ways to use her "fire" theme, to dispatch her enemies)

 

I would prefer a completely different fire-themed warframe, than what she currently is. Except I don't have another option. 

I think that the way she's set up fits pretty well into the Damage 2.0 system.  If she could kill into the 100s with just her abilities, it would just be lazy mode all over again.  Press4towin is still somehow a big problem in this game, and having frames that passively kill rooms with ability spam in Sortie levels is not a step forward.

Maybe there will be more fire themed warframes to catch one's fancy down the line.  I certainly wouldn't mind.  

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

5. This is an opinion you're entitled to have, but I've already explained in other threads why Firequake's usefulness is dubious.  Most players who like Ember corroborate my view that Firequake is only slightly more consistent than WoF with a high power strength, and is thus not worth sacrificing the extra damage that you get from higher power strength.  If you're running Overextended, you might as well use Rhino or something so that you don't have to press the stun button as often (but Accelerant's lack of a cooldown can make it more flexible and energy-efficient than Stomp in less-than-ideal circumstances.)

High-power WoF would require a substantially reduced range... thus reducing the effectiveness of the status proc... thus it's practically redundant. Hence the most effective strategy becomes firequake, which acts independent of power str, and allows to reduce the energy cost/s, and increase the radius for max CC effectiveness. 

[Maka.Bones]

11 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

 

I think that the way she's set up fits pretty well into the Damage 2.0 system.  If she could kill into the 100s with just her abilities, it would just be lazy mode all over again.  Press4towin is still somehow a big problem in this game, and having frames that passively kill rooms with ability spam in Sortie levels is not a step forward.

Maybe there will be more fire themed warframes to catch one's fancy down the line.  I certainly wouldn't mind.  

I don't want lazy killing methods... I just want to at least be able to blow heads off, with her fireball. That's something I'd like to still do, well into 100s.  IDK why her fireball isn't treated as an exalted weapon. 

 

Yes. My entire frustration can be summed up by "a fireball to the face, doesn't kill everything".  Only things I could understand surviving well into 100s, are maybe raptors/auditor bursas, or bosses. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Maka.Bones