This is a serious problem.

[DYSEQTA]

Well unlike many at the top end of this thread I actually took the time to watch the video.  Ultimately the guy puts forward the premise that DE has a problem with recruiting volunteers into positions of power in the community who are clearly not suited to that role. He does so clearly, with a level head, a touch of humor, and provides ample evidence.

[Sitchrea]

1 hour ago, Crucafix said:

Honestly, this support ticket is extremely worrisome. How can DE not have power to rescind a temporary ban?

[Sitchrea]

Wait, guys... Don't we already have a chat filter of our own?

The chat search filter works in Region Chat, and you can make it inverse by typing in specific words you don't want to see. Why don't we just use this as a chat filter client-side...?

Edited June 1, 2018 by Sitchrea

[Rakosta_Kai]

Not a fan of the clickbait OP but the vid, albeit long, makes claims with sensible progression and has receipts to support them.

Add all that to the stuff we've seen happen over the years with changes among the moderators, bans and etc and it feels like more than just a messy coincidence (to me).

What we can reasonably say is that DE promotes players into these higher echelons (design council, guides, etc) based on requirements that don't appear to be entirely objective or consistently objective.

Some stuff seems valid, some stuff seems like favoritism, and some of it seems like the company has chosen not to involve themselves if folks aren't complaining...or if the right folks aren't complaining.

...But is any of that new?

None of what got mentioned feels particularly new or surprising to me.

...Maybe that's just me though.

.

 

[CalculatedMurderMachine]

2 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Black people should just lighten up and just ignore people using the n-word. Same with those gays, getting upset at people using fa**ot. Why do they get so offended!?

Welcome to 2018

 

[OniDax]

2 hours ago, Crucafix said:

So I've sent a support ticket regarding of what happened with my account and this is what I've got.

1 week ban is really severe for a really mild and rather harmless banter but DE just expect me to put up with what happened to me.

I'm really disappointed that I've ever spend money on this game. The community was great the first time I've jumped into this game, but after this, I wasn't so sure anymore.

Please don't make a thread on the forums about your chat suspension. [DE]Glen is known for extending the chat bans of people who make threads about them.

Also, this response demonstrates just how much DE doesn't care about dealing with issues related to false positives, despite what they have recently said, and is an indicator that the system absolutely needs to be looked at.

Edited June 1, 2018 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

Anyway, back to what we were talking about. This is quite the weird situation we're in, seeing as we've been directed to support, and then support directs us to the forums, and it doesn't seem like either wants to do anything, so what do we even do?

[Sitchrea]

Just now, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

Anyway, back to what we were talking about. This is quite the weird situation we're in, seeing as we've been directed to support, and then support directs us to the forums, and it doesn't seem like either wants to do anything, so what do we even do?

Ask for dialogue. Change. Improve.

And get rid of bad apples.

[Crucafix]

6 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Please don't make a thread on the forums about your chat suspension. [DE]Glen is known for extending the chat bans of people who make threads about them.

Also, this response demonstrates just how much DE doesn't care about dealing with issues related to false positives, despite what they have recently said, and is an indicator that the system absolutely needs to be looked at.

Previous mod here says that I should send a support ticket to solve these issues, support ticket says I should make a forum thread about this, and now you said that I should never make a forum thread about this.

So, what should I do then? Just stuck it up even though I think that one week ban is completely unjustified?

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

Anyway, back to what we were talking about. This is quite the weird situation we're in, seeing as we've been directed to support, and then support directs us to the forums, and it doesn't seem like either wants to do anything, so what do we even do?

 

Hope (but don't expect, this is GD after all) that we get an official response that isn't an echo of the last. Now I not only believe DE should look at chat moderation regarding accountability of the mods, but also commit to working on the false positive situation. This Support to Forum circle is incredibly alarming.

Edited June 1, 2018 by LazerSkink

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

2 minutes ago, Crucafix said:

Previous mod here says that I should send a support ticket to solve these issues, support ticket says I should make a forum thread about this, and now you said that I should never make a forum thread about this.

So, what should I do then? Just stuck it up even though I think that one week ban is completely unjustified?

We keep this thread going and we keep asking questions until we get a response. Devs are probably asleep right now, so a response is more likely tomorrow.

[OniDax]

11 minutes ago, Crucafix said:

Previous mod here says that I should send a support ticket to solve these issues, support ticket says I should make a forum thread about this, and now you said that I should never make a forum thread about this.

So, what should I do then? Just stuck it up even though I think that one week ban is completely unjustified?

You could try using the community inbox, but there's still a chance someone could read it who takes issue with you bringing it up. Honestly, I don't know. Talking about it in this thread is probably safe since Letter13 and other mods have been here discussing with us. You won't get singled out as long as you comment here. I'm just warning you that I've seen Glen extend bans for people who make threads questioning why they were banned and suggesting that DE notify people of why they were banned.

Edited June 1, 2018 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[Carnage2K4]

SO what I get from this is a cry about No-clips doco and that it goes for an hour, that this also goes for an hour, but is heavily interspersed with incessant characters voiced by the same guy... that are... trying to be funny I guess I don;t know.. but I bet this vid would be 20 minutes without them.

I got through about 5 minutes, I stopped caring before that, Rabble Rabble Rabble... just get to the point.... whatever.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Carnage2K4

[-.SP.-G43riel]

1 minute ago, Carnage2K4 said:

SO what I get from this is a cry about No-clips doco and that it goes for an hour, that this also goes for an hour, but is heavily interspersed with incessant characters voiced by the same guy... that are... trying to be funny I guess I don;t know.. but I bet this vid would be 20 minutes without them.

I got through about 5 minutes, I stopped caring before that, Rabble Rabble Rabble... whatever.

i also almost stopped by that time mark, skip it to 6 m and continue, its where the things really start, and its not a nonsensical ramble

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

Just now, Carnage2K4 said:

SO what I get from this is a cry about No-clips doco

Which was a joke

 

1 minute ago, Carnage2K4 said:

is heavily interspersed with incessant characters voiced by the same guy... that are... trying to be funny I guess 

I can see your point here, we've been trying to get this all down in writing so it isn't, well, annoying.

 

1 minute ago, Carnage2K4 said:

I got through about 5 minutes, I stopped caring before that, Rabble Rabble Rabble... whatever.

This is another reason we need this down on writing. I can understand why you couldn't get through it, but there actually are some good points.

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, Carnage2K4 said:

SO what I get from this is a cry about No-clips doco and that it goes for an hour, that this also goes for an hour, but is heavily interspersed with incessant characters voiced by the same guy... that are... trying to be funny I guess I don;t know.. but I bet this vid would be 20 minutes without them.

I got through about 5 minutes, I stopped caring before that, Rabble Rabble Rabble... whatever.

 

Yes, the length is definitely a turn off, understandable, but the points they make I find valid. Moderator accountability needs to be taken seriously by DE, because as it stands currently, it seems they're inconsistent with the way they treat both their moderators and the general playerbase.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

3 hours ago, Lord-Taco-the-Great said:

I can tell you didn't even watch a second of the video. The chat filter, not even region chat, is the subject of this. I'd ask that you at least know what you're talking about before you inadvertently derail a constructive thread.

I did watch it. I rolled my eyes. Because of how EXTREMELY edited the video is.

Just because you dislike my portrayal of what the video's endgame/absolute goal is. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

Chat Mods abused their power. I see one of these threads every other day.

"A Chat mod said ___".
"A Chat Mod kicked me because I said ___ but then they said ____."
"I got kicked by a mod because I said ___. I wasn't being offensive. I was saying it in the context of ____."
"A [Mod/Guide/Partner] said/did ____."

It's the same song & dance.
Folks want mods & kickbots removed so we can have a old school western free for all.

Had that been a LIVE Stream archive. I probably would have interpreted it different.
Highly edited videos on the otherhand...much harder to take as absolute fact when it comes to matters like these.

Add in the:

"Please don't talk to anyone. Post anything about this. Say anything to anyone."

If they REALLY wanted to make waves & etc. They'd want this to catch fire & spread. Which would dramatically speed up DE taking action.

I'll just say this.
If people aren't guilty then they should be reporting these mods.
But the mass enough legitimate reports & DE has to act as these mods/partners represent the brand.
Which companies take extremely seriously.

These mods say report them? Do it.
The issue is most of them DON'T report them.
Many people talk the talk but an extreme few walk the walk.

Basically this is the trolls & scumbags trying to remove authority because they got exposed & treated exactly how they treat others.

"The mods referred to us as pieces of ___."
The mod said they know the filter is working because of how angry we are!"
"The mod is not being sympathetic to "MY" feelings."

Well boo hoo.

Don't run around spouting out racial slurs, insults, & etc all day long.
The filters are the way they because people do this so heavily.

Many also don't realize that these mods literally are dealing with this BS everyday, all day.

You ever get pulled over for speeding (even if it's just 1 mile over) & notice that the cop doesn't give 2 squirrel farts about whatever your excuse is?
You know how many folks have some excuse for speeding? You know how many of them are lying to get out of trouble?
I'll give you a guess what the cop thinks your doing? (PSST! He probably thinks you aren't telling the truth.)

The video basically showed mods calling scumbags, scumbags.
Don't' dish it out if you can't take it.
Don't be a jerk then cry when someone calls you a jerk.

Watching it for a second cringeworthy time (to make sure I didn't misinterpret the endgoal of this BS) just hammered it in.

So basically...folks want people removed from power because they treat them how they deserve to be treated.

I will concede that there were some instances where mods made very bad calls.
But to bring up the police...

How many times do police make bad calls? You can just watch the news to see the answer to that question.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

-snip-

Woah woah woah, man calm down. First of all, I apologize for being so confrontational. Second, no one said anything about region being a free for all, where anyone can say anything, in fact, that isn't even the topic of the thread. We're talking moderators here. All I can say is, we have reported these mods, but we've quite literally been stuck in a circle of going to the forums, then forum moderators directing us to support, and then support told us to go here. It's all a bit weird, and I also don't blame you if you didnt get very far in. His mocking voice is quite annoying at times, however I feel like there were actual points made. Again, sorry for being confrontational, but we've been trying to keep the toxicity down which has brought forward some constructive dialogue.

[SilentMobius]

22 minutes ago, Crucafix said:

I still personally disagree that the word "trap" holds the same power as any other hateful/racist remark.

Then you are wrong and aren't thinking the meaning through, or deliberately ignoring the meaning. Either way, I've pointed out GLAAD's stance on the matter, there is no longer any excuse for ignorance, that was all I wanted to ensure.

Edited June 1, 2018 by SilentMobius

[OniDax]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

I did watch it. I rolled my eyes. Because of how EXTREMELY edited the video is.

Just because you dislike my portrayal of what the video's endgame/absolute goal is. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

Chat Mods abused their power. I see one of these threads every other day.

"A Chat mod said ___".
"A Chat Mod kicked me because I said ___ but then they said ____."
"I got kicked by a mod because I said ___. I wasn't being offensive. I was saying it in the context of ____."
"A [Mod/Guide/Partner] said/did ____."

It's the same song & dance.
Folks want mods & kickbots removed so we can have a old school western free for all.

Had that been a LIVE Stream archive. I probably would have interpreted it different.
Highly edited videos on the otherhand...much harder to take as absolute fact when it comes to matters like these.

Add in the:

"Please don't talk to anyone. Post anything about this. Say anything to anyone."

If they REALLY wanted to make waves & etc. They'd want this to catch fire & spread. Which would dramatically speed up DE taking action.

I'll just say this.
If people aren't guilty then they should be reporting these mods.
But the mass enough legitimate reports & DE has to act as these mods/partners represent the brand.
Which companies take extremely seriously.

These mods say report them? Do it.
The issue is most of them DON'T report them.
Many people talk the talk but an extreme few walk the walk.

Basically this is the trolls & scumbags trying to remove authority because they got exposed & treated exactly how they treat others.

"The mods referred to us as pieces of ___."
The mod said they know the filter is working because of how angry we are!"
"The mod is not being sympathetic to "MY" feelings."

Well boo hoo.

Don't run around spouting out racial slurs, insults, & etc all day long.
The filters are the way they because people do this so heavily.

Many also don't realize that these mods literally are dealing with this BS everyday, all day.

You ever get pulled over for speeding (even if it's just 1 mile over) & notice that the cop doesn't give 2 squirrel farts about whatever your excuse is?
You know how many folks have some excuse for speeding? You know how many of them are lying to get out of trouble?
I'll give you a guess what the cop thinks your doing? (PSST! He probably thinks you aren't telling the truth.)

The video basically showed mods calling scumbags, scumbags.
Don't' dish it out if you can't take it.
Don't be a jerk then cry when someone calls you a jerk.

Watching it for a second cringeworthy time (to make sure I didn't misinterpret the endgoal of this BS) just hammered it in.

So basically...folks want people removed from power because they treat them how they deserve to be treated.

I will concede that there were some instances where mods made very bad calls.
But to bring up the police...

How many times do police make bad calls? You can just watch the news to see the answer to that question.

To use your example, you ever notice how there are speed limit signs posted along the road? Well Warframe doesn't have those. There is no list of banned words/phrases. This is cops pulling you over for a speed limit that isn't posted. And dirty cops who demean you while they do it.

What's worse is that these moderators are also breaking the rules. If they're being scumbags to scumbags, then they also deserve to be punished like scumbags. Yet, in many cases, the people being punished aren't scumbags, like the chat moderator in the video who demeaned people for giving legitimate warnings not to trade stuff that got people banned and lying about the occurrence of such bans. But yet, you'll support that behavior any day just because those engaging in such behavior are affiliated with DE.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

Alright, no more talk about that word. The thread is starting to derail, and unless we dont get back on topic, this thread will probably be locked.

[Korusagi]

Back on track then.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

But the mass enough legitimate reports & DE has to act as these mods/partners represent the brand.
Which companies take extremely seriously.

Many also don't realize that these mods literally are dealing with this BS everyday, all day.

The video basically showed mods calling scumbags, scumbags.

And because of that, we expect they should act responsibly and impartial. No excuse.

If they ever feel like being too stressed for this job, resign the position, simple as that. It's not like they are being paid for this after all.... right?

The video also showed us two simple guys, one kicked from his position for a twitter post, and the other completely untouched despite his hate comments on twitter too. So, the only thing I can think about this is: a) DE is too busy to deal with it or b) They actually support this views.

I like to think it's just "a)", because being naive brings me hope.

[DocHolliday13]

Ok, whether or not the mods themselves are a problem, I'm not going to comment.

 

But about specific words that result in an auto-ban, you can't do that with words that have such common non-slur usage that they appear IN YOUR OWN GAME. Or to put it another way, if you're going to consider "trap" an auto-ban slur, then you have to make sure you remove every instance of it from the game itself and find another word to use in its place. This is only common sense. The current situation is grossly unfair and unacceptable to your player base, and just makes you look incompetent.

 

You know you're better than this, DE.

 

 

[Carnage2K4]

54 minutes ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

i also almost stopped by that time mark, skip it to 6 m and continue, its where the things really start, and its not a nonsensical ramble

 

52 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

Yes, the length is definitely a turn off, understandable, but the points they make I find valid. Moderator accountability needs to be taken seriously by DE, because as it stands currently, it seems they're inconsistent with the way they treat both their moderators and the general playerbase.

Okay, fair enough, I took your advice and got past the BS at the start, and I can see that wow this really is an issue...
Petition to have the 5 mods in question removed then I guess, because hypocrisy from DE staff is off the chart.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Actually, wasn't Twitch one of the subjects. I added that for good measure. Also, since there is no other place to discuss such things, might as well do it here where people are again whining about not being able to use a hate term.

 

Does that bother you? Why?