(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)blablabathy]

It's mindblowing how even devs want to force mouse and keyboard on us console gamers. Just please don't. If that's the sort of experience we wanted we'd be playing on PC. 

As a lot of people have said it already, the UI is now counter intuitive for a controller. Double tap to select something? Like really? That's ridiculously mouse oriented. I can't believe people thought this would be a good idea. Make the cursor a toggle option or at the very least bring back hotkeys. Also, hold and drag to equip mods? No, thanks.

[(XBOX)Skyvernn]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Different scope. The control scheme for Archwing was pretty limited in terms of how many things were touched. This touches dozens of systems across the game and reverting it would be a nightmare.

Archwing is an example, there is no reason as to why we can't go back to the version of the game before this if you like I'll list other bugs and problems found in this build alongside the UI:

Khora and Venari - Venari's heal is bugged and its range is 2m, even with range mods equipped (tested this with a friend). 

Fishing - If you play without using the <power_menu> like I do since I've played since Xb1 launch and use the d-pad to cycle abilities instead you can now no longer use the fishing gear options in the plains. 

Lighting - In the liset the lighting was changed and optimised poorly, most likely due to them changing the dojo lighting. 

There are some very valid reasons as to what is wrong with the update as a whole. Say I'm ranting sure whatever, but the point remains that this update as a whole was a failure and should be passed through cert a second time. 

Ultimately recalling this update and going to the previous build will settle this fire that's started. Until further optimisation and testing is complete with actual console tenno input this UI will never meet the standards of being a successor to what we've always had and loved. 

[(PSN)thin_coyote]

Please. This is so much slower.  Even with the cursor set to fast the controller is hard and very stressful to use without a mouse and profoundly is impacting my enjoyment of this wonderful game. 

Please give us our controller menu navigation back 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)thin_coyote
Spellcheck

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

DE is fine. They are not crying because someone said something bad on the Internet. Again, not everyone can be constructive to the same degree. I could write a 20 page paper on why this update sucks, or I could just say it sucks. In the end its up to DE to figure out why the update failed and how to improve it. There is no need to ask someone to be constructive, some will and some won't; just read the feedback and takes notes on what is being said.

In truth this update was going to fail regardless as it will take time to restore the features back into the unified cursor UI. DE knew this and if you think otherwise then you didn't read the PC megathread for the cursor UI.

How about we agree to disagree on the proper responses people should take when it comes to how people should respond. I just expect more from humans than I probably should.

I am sure DE knew about this and the response ahead of time because of the PC thread about it. I am not disagreeing with you there.

[(XBOX)Cargosinusa]

Bonjours, donc je vais pas passer par quatre chemin l'idée en soit est intéressant sur PC mais sur le support Xbox ce n'est pas très pratique si vous avez laisser les racourcis boutons sa serai bien mais la ce n' est pas facile de changer d'une arme à l'autre et pour le reste aussi.

Cordialement 

 

[(PSN)TempestOfThought]

(Ps4 user) 

I don't think the changes are as bad as a lot of people are making them out to be. It's a lot to get used to at first, but if you manually increase the cursor speed things feel a bit better, but I do have some feedback.

1) I very much miss the hotkeys in the arsenal menu, they made changing things in my loadouts very quick and easy. I would prefer that they be available in addition to the option of clicking them manually with the cursor.

2) Having to use the right stick to zoom in on planets in the star chart feels difficult and clunky. On some planets I found if you zoom in all way it may be challenging to click your desired mission. I would prefer that clicking the planet allow you to zoom in somehow as this would feel much more natural.

3) Having items previewed (relics, gear, etc) when you run the mouse over the item as opposed to having to click the item would be greatly appreciated, it can become frustrating having to click each item individually.

I appreciate the effort to the improve things on console and overall feel like we gained more than we lost, I'm looking forward to how it will improve over time.

Thanks!

 

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

34 pages of 98% negative feedback and they ask us for feedback.

70% of the playerbase saying revert and we get "That's not going to happen".

 

Constructive criticism?

1 - Listen to the ones who have to use it.

2 - Try before implimenting. Dont test if keyboard and mouse work on consoles, give PC console functionality and then fine tune. PC has input options, consoles dont even want it.

3 - Don't release a major change to the game before a blackout.

4 - Keep a rollback ready for immediate deployment any time a major change is released. ESPECIALLY BEFORE A BLACKOUT.

5 - Don't release half of a UI change. Just dont.

6 - Cursor doesn't work with joystick because you're not holding your hand over it to know where it is, and you can't snap to a point. The only time it's remotely practical is when it autocenters to the screen and snaps to buttons. Even then it's an awkward compromise, just look at the gear wheel.

7 - Don't remove functionality. Shortcuts are integral to consoles, look at their OS. The cursor should have been added to the existing system to allow console players to adjust before the UI comes, then tweaked to blend the two in the new system to work around cert issues.

[(XBOX)DoggedRamos]

Pretty S#&amp;&#036; I would say

 

[(PSN)Jade_Panther]

After reading through 13 pages since I was last here it seems that DE is at least trying to fix a massive issue that they caused so that is a good thing.

However it seems the root of the problem trying to force the ps 4 and xbox to act like a PC which will never work well as we are seeing, and to be honest this update may cause a rfit between kb/m users and animosity towards pc counter parts as some are starting to blame the kb/m users an pc player base for these issues.

The best way to stem the tides of what may come is to try and reverse some changes or do what others have suggested further back.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Jade_Panther

[(XBOX)CrimsonKer11]

I was in the middle of a Warframe binge, but this damn cursor has really killed the mood for me, Honestly why would you try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

You say that you're going to improve this new system, but the old system was perfectly fine and nobody was complaining about it.

 

I honestly went from only playing Warframe (I have over 100 other games downloaded) to not playing anything and I spent my time in Warframe yesterday watching people in regional chat talk about how much they hate the cursor.

 

Everything else is fine, great even (except the operators look like they're covered in baby oil, but whatever), the cursor just needs to go.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

40 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Reverting will likely take a massive amount of effort that will negate all forward momentum in the prior months. It will require people to unlearn new patterns and the new framework. It will stop all UI development for months and a lot of stuff that we just got (like FX particles) will have to come out for the short term. And it will kill employee morale.

However, keeping what they have and then adjusting it to address player issues won't have those problems. It's the reality of software development.

Didn't read what I wrote prior to that, huh? It's OK let me say it again. 

 

I didn't suggest that they revert. I clearly and explicitly suggested adding to the new code, returning functionality for people using controllers. Other games have controller schemes for keyboard and mouse and controllers. When you start up the game you can choose which system you want to use. 

So again, why is this not going to be possible? Please try to avoid the kneejerk reaction of "they are not going to be able to roll it back" it's no more helpful than the kneejerk reaction of "I'm quitting warframe". 

 

I understand that it will involve work on their end, but isn't that the whole point of all of this? To work to create the best game possible for the enjoyment of all? 

 

Like I said think about why that can't be an option. 

 

[(XBOX)dude1286]

When I heard we were making a Sacrifice, I didn't think it would be the usable user interface. Never make mouse and keyboard controls required to be used on a controller.

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

My biggest complain is lost button functionalty due to the new cursor examples 

1 lost square triangle and X then selecting character appearence and updrades while R2 for abilities is still working for some reason 

2 cant rotate warframe while hovering on a certain color in arsenal since rotation now slides the color pallet 

3 pressing x on warframe or weapon while cursor is on them doesnt triger equip but you need to press it directly 

4 making the cursor fasters makes big problems when selecting colors since squares are small 

5 R1 and L1 are too buggy in mod menu sometime i am on waeframe mods and it switches mod polarities selection not configuration 

6 equiping arcanes require multiple pressing 

7 please remove the remove all mods from triangle as it happened multiple times i am on a specific mod and it removes all my mods instead the selected one 

8 zoom in navigation is not directional to cursor but intead zoomes on last selected planet 

9 d pad cant be used to go up from menu to leave squade 

10 d pad cant be used to scroll down while selecting warframes i need to slide with analog then use d pad 

The black button colors are rwally appreciated i hate the original ps4 colors also the new cursor looks good but its not as fast or efficient as d pad so there is no point of using it efficiency is key in everything and you guys are not only nerfing ingame mechanics to be less efficient but now even the UI hopfully the new UI with sacrifice fixes these problems 

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Jade_Panther said:

After reading through 13 pages since I was last here it seems that DE is at least trying to fix a massive issue that they caused so that is a good thing.

However it seems the root of the problem trying to force the ps 4 and xbox to act like a PC which will never work well as we are seeing, and to be honest this update may cause a rfit between kb/m users and animosity towards pc counter parts as some are starting to blame the kb/m users an pc player base for these issues.

The best way to stem the tides of of what may come is to try and reverse some changes or do what others have suggested further back.

If those people are getting mad at K&M users on the Ps4, they should be mad at Sony then for making the Ps4 have innate M&K already built in it. All the developers have to do is turn that function on for their games. They are getting mad at something already in the base code for the Ps4.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Jaztok

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Dova Seniorious said:

Archwing is an example, there is no reason as to why we can't go back to the version of the game before this if you like I'll list other bugs and problems found in this build alongside the UI:

Khora and Venari - Venari's heal is bugged and its range is 2m, even with range mods equipped (tested this with a friend). 

Fishing - If you play without using the <power_menu> like I do since I've played since Xb1 launch and use the d-pad to cycle abilities instead you can now no longer use the fishing gear options in the plains. 

Lighting - In the liset the lighting was changed and optimised poorly, most likely due to them changing the dojo lighting. 

There are some very valid reasons as to what is wrong with the update as a whole. Say I'm ranting sure whatever, but the point remains that this update as a whole was a failure and should be passed through cert a second time. 

Ultimately recalling this update and going to the previous build will settle this fire that's started. Until further optimisation and testing is complete with actual console tenno input this UI will never meet the standards of being a successor to what we've always had and loved. 

I'm not saying the update is good. I don't think there's anywhere you could point to where I've stated that. But rollbacks are incredibly expensive. It's not just the clients that have to be updated, but the servers as well. For the people who have started placing the new decorations in the Dojo, reverting means that that data is lost or you get some sort of "object not found" because the new stuff isn't recognized by the old client. Rollbacks are horrid and really a last resort. They're no where near last resort territory. The game is playable but aggravating, but it's not crashing every time you enter the Dojo.

So if reverting isn't an option, what could they change to make things better and "back" isn't really an answer because it's not actually all that specific. They're not going to waste resources putting things back universally when not everything is actually a problem. Your list is helpful though. It's specific. So kudos for that.

[(XBOX)MagicalVulture]

This may have been suggested already, but I don't really want to wade through 30+ pages of comments to find out. I don't necessarily mind the cursor if you also bring back the button shortcuts. Since you've made it clear that you want to create a single UI for console/PC, would it be possible to just add the controller shortcuts back to everyone's UI, and map keyboard buttons to them for KB&M? The cursor is kinda nice for navigating some of the pause menu, but for Mods and the Arsenal it's super annoying. 

[(PSN)MANNERLESS]

3 hours ago, (PS4)chubbslawson said:

Why are they working so hard to destroy such a great game 

This. Exactly this.

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

On 2018-06-05 at 6:53 PM, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Items/Weapons/Frames should be Single Click to equip across the board.

Also this ^^^

[(XBOX)Skyvernn]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

I'm not saying the update is good. I don't think there's anywhere you could point to where I've stated that. But rollbacks are incredibly expensive. It's not just the clients that have to be updated, but the servers as well. For the people who have started placing the new decorations in the Dojo, reverting means that that data is lost or you get some sort of "object not found" because the new stuff isn't recognized by the old client. Rollbacks are horrid and really a last resort. They're no where near last resort territory. The game is playable but aggravating, but it's not crashing every time you enter the Dojo.

So if reverting isn't an option, what could they change to make things better and "back" isn't really an answer because it's not actually all that specific. They're not going to waste resources putting things back universally when not everything is actually a problem. Your list is helpful though. It's specific. So kudos for that.

While yes it's expensive and most likely frustrating for DE in particular the fact remains that they've damaged the brand of the game on console, especially for long term players. While I totally understand DE's side of reverting the changes the outrage from this single update alone just before the Tennocon blackout is just unacceptable. 

You shouldn't create change just for the sake of change. 

[(XBOX)l Arkbird l]

• Having to drag mods around isn't very time efficient compared to the old way of moving mods on console, works but is tedious 
• Trying to select anything by having to press A two times quickly like clicking isn't... explained anywhere and kind of annoying 
• Using the cursor to choose between 'upgrade' 'appearance' 'equip' is hard to do, and especially if you have a drifting analog stick 
• If you use the D-pad on Xbox to try and select rivens when linking them, it likes to bounce around really fast (and this happened on my new controller not the one with the analog drift)
• The new select for relics is awful, I keep accidentally going without a relic because the pathing to actually equip one has changed... I've missed out on some good rewards because I didn't end up having a relic 😞

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

Just now, (XB1)Dova Seniorious said:

While yes it's expensive and most likely frustrating for DE in particular the fact remains that they've damaged the brand of the game on console, especially for long term players. While I totally understand DE's side of reverting the changes the outrage from this single update alone just before the Tennocon blackout is just unacceptable. 

You shouldn't create change just for the sake of change. 

That's where you are wrong though. This wasn't change for the sake of change. They did this to unify both PC and Consoles for the sake of putting out easier and faster patches for both. Instead of coding something to PC and a different code to Consoles, it is all the same code now which makes things streamlined and easier to put out content.

[(XBOX)HybridxCross]

I got on to take a second look at the changes to try and really get a feel for what is and isn't okay with the current changes brought on by the virtual cursor. Admittedly with the shock of "oh this is new and gross" gone it's more tolerable but it still isn't what I'd want in an update. I'll try and address what changes work and what doesn't below.


Improvements

-Browsing menus with a lot of items in them feels much smoother. This is a welcome change to sections such as mods or the misc inventory.
-Checking rivens and other mods in chat tabs requires less effort, so long as you can manage to click the mod.

Areas that need work
-Increased D-pad functionality. In it's current state it's helpful but is occasionally non-responsive. Hopefully this will be fixed in later releases.
-Drag and drop modding is okay but mildly awkward on a controller. Allowing the option of drag and drop or simply selecting the mod then the slot you want would make all players feel more comfortable with modding.
-Thumbstick controls to zoom in and out of the planet feel more sensitive than they should be. This is more of an issue that could be disorienting to new players who don't know you can just select the planet and leave right thumbstick alone entirely if you prefer.


Features which should return or revert
-Arsenal hotkeys. This is by far the biggest complaint I've seen posted. Having to either scroll or D-pad your way to the submenus to change gear, mods, or appearance is just adding an unnecessary step to a process that people use very often outside of mission.
-Double clicking gear to first select then equip it is again unnecessary work. Most players know well enough what their gear does to not need the preview, and there's still a confirmation window before accidentally buying something you don't want.


I'll come back and edit if something else comes to mind, but for now the glaring issues are the increased time the cursor brings. A unified UI should be equally user friendly to both pc and console players, not good for one and the other simply has to deal with it. Warframe's surprisingly good console UI is part of what made it an excellent pc port and I genuinely hope to see that return.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)HybridxCross

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Didn't read what I wrote prior to that, huh? It's OK let me say it again. 

 

I didn't suggest that they revert. I clearly and explicitly suggested adding to the new code, returning functionality for people using controllers. Other games have controller schemes for keyboard and mouse and controllers. When you start up the game you can choose which system you want to use. 

So again, why is this not going to be possible? Please try to avoid the kneejerk reaction of "they are not going to be able to roll it back" it's no more helpful than the kneejerk reaction of "I'm quitting warframe". 

 

I understand that it will involve work on their end, but isn't that the whole point of all of this? To work to create the best game possible for the enjoyment of all? 

 

Like I said think about why that can't be an option. 

 

They've hinted as to why before, but to elaborate:

Two systems requires more than just the two systems. It requires code to coordinate the two systems. And it requires a ton of additional QA effort. One of the core ideas was to allow people to seamlessly switch between them -- kind of like how you can in Witcher 3.

So even if you had a picker, you're not done. Now you have two entirely different sets of UI code. Some pieces of UI respond to hover, while other ones respond to click. Some have to list the shortcuts in the right spot and others don't have shortcuts at all. Elements are now variable sized based on whether or not they have to present shortcut buttons.

Control schemes aren't bolted onto the UI -- they are fundamentally part of it. And now they're either maintaining two completely different sets of UI which more than doubles the work... Or they're maintain a host of "if (console)" statements littered throughout the code (they've already stated the latter is the case).

This actually something I do for a living so I'm not just pulling this out of thin air. It's a fundamental issue in UI/UX design and implementation and it's very, very hard to get right. The new UI seems hover focused and so a virtual cursor makes a lot of sense. They're figuring out how to more seamlessly merge the two, but right now we're hitting growing pains.

They probably shouldn't have merged in the code for the new cursor framework before the new UI was fully done, but that decision was probably made months back and it's not something they can walk back without causing even more pain to the players.

Game devs are generally overworked and I would imagine DE follows the general industry trend. It's not a matter of laziness, it's a matter of time and timing. I imagine they've been working their a**es off to get ready for Tennocon.

So they can spend thousands of hours turning back the clock for no net long-term gain. Or much less time making what they have work. That's why it's not an option. It's too costly for too little gain. Better to admit the mistake and move on.

[(PSN)FernandoGo_D]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Ishkaw said:

This hasn't changed. Click the person's name on the right and click close tab.

Game don'tr understand that im pressing to close it, with cursor and without it

[(PSN)Liyern]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

That's where you are wrong though. This wasn't change for the sake of change. They did this to unify both PC and Consoles for the sake of putting out easier and faster patches for both. Instead of coding something to PC and a different code to Consoles, it is all the same code now which makes things streamlined and easier to put out content.

I'm just worried myself, if this was really to streamline everything then their intention would be so that eventually Ps4/Xb1 and PC will always be running/updating on the same Patch at the same time, right? Cause if they don't, then this seems kind of pointless. (Except for faster patch releases for the console, but if that were the case I'd much rather sacrifice some waiting time then having to deal with the current UI).

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)Liyern