(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Averthane said:

Ill be very honest here. This was a bad idea. Not because it's new, but because we weren't given the option to change it back if we didn't like it.

It's not that the devs are being stubborn, there is no way to add a toggle. There is no version of Warframe where both UIs exist and merging them would be like making a whole new UI -- but even more complicated than the one they dumped for being overly complex.

Pointers on consoles are worse than d-pad, but they aren't universally awful. Main navigation is pointer-based. D-pad there (or anywhere else that's not a grid) is actually worse. They can improve the d-pad functionality. What they can't do is go back or add an option to switch. Again, it's not a matter of stubbornness, it's just a reality of software development.

[(PSN)jimmythehat89]

Adjusting the holster position of melee weapons with this cursor is beyond a joke, no precision at all.

[(PSN)NATE_DOG_2017]

i hate this update! please change it!

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I'm back with a few more suggestions and some odd bugs appearing with the update. 

I really like the new Focus UI changes, but there are two things that could be streamlined. 

First, the appearance and equipment nodes should really be one node. Unless of course it was divided into separate selection screens for the face and then armor and Amps. Having the ability to scroll through the Features, Body, and Amp screens makes it confusing. It is nice to be able to select these from either the Appearance or Equipment nodes, but it is unnecessary and hurts the design. 

Second, having the entire Focus System being one selectable node from the Operator/Focus Room is confusing. The previous design of having it be present after selecting Focus from the Operator's location was much more intuitive and helpful. The new system makes Focus seem like a tacked on bit again which hurts the overall interface. 

Two bugs to report! 

#1 Syandanas are stiff as a board on my Warframes when viewing or scrolling the virtual cursor over them. The Syandanas also are flat and project at a 30 degree angle from all of my Articulas which is somewhat hilarious! 

#2 My Companions, when scrolled over using the virtual cursor, glitch around the room randomly. A separate bug of the companion disappearing while you interact with it is still present. It's seems to be related to having a companion bed in your Orbiter, but it still happens, but with less frequency, when there are no companion beds are present. Sometimes my companions disappear for good until after I return from a mission! It's especially bad when I try to equip said companion! They will only reappear after I select a loadout with them equipped. 

[(PSN)FernandoGo_D]

HOW THE #*!% DO I CLOSE A #*!%ING CHAT WINDOW?

[(XBOX)AssaultyWalnut]

I honestly think this new UI sucks for console players. I have never had a hard time browsing simple menus until this update. I personally never asked for Keyboard and Mouse controls but I can understand if some wanted the option. I perfer to use my controller on the old UI than on the new. It's clunky and slow. All the shortcuts I used to utilize are no longer there. DE, please change this UI so that both console and PC players will feel welcomed when playing.

[(XBOX)devoltar]

I've commented on some of this on Reddit but the big issue I see isn't the cursor itself but the implementation and lack of compensating UI changes. 

Some big items:

• Larger and more intelligent controls. When doing a console cursor UI, all major elements should be designed basically as if you were designing for a touch screen. One simple change along this vein in Arsenal:
  • Clicking on the frame/weapon should take you to the selection screen.
  • Get rid of the Equip button.
  • Make the other buttons larger.
  • Consider similar design changes in your new UI 
• Cursor friction. This is crucial to using a controller for fine selection and reduces the need to switch to DPad as much. Don't make it super strong, just enough to ease selecting controls
• Intelligent DPad design. The early DPad design is fragmented badly and doesn't always intelligently move based on current cursor position. For most menus it may be worth considering separate selection highlighting with the DPad independent from the cursor (common on PC). There are elements which can't be selected at all.
  • In your new UI items need to be arranged to make DPad pathing clear at all times. This is something that is commonly done badly, so avoid that trap. 
• Key shortcuts for most commonly used items. We don't need every shortcut back (I'd much rather randomize not have one so I don't go destroying my fashion frame on accident any more!), but shortcuts for common stuff would be great, and can see a bit of a reboot with the new UI.

But, most importantly. Get someone who uses controller primarily, has good communication skills, and has good experience with different game UI/UX onto your design team. There are things controllers do not only differently from KB/Mouse, but in some cases better - even in cursor UIs. You need someone who understands the strengths and weaknesses of controllers to provide better feedback before it hits the hordes. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)devoltar

[(XBOX)GmanM1]

Sometimes to move forward you have to REVERT BACK

#revertback 

[(XBOX)FISTO ROBOT0]

Feels overall to be a much slower experience. The quick select buttons such as (Y) to upgrade, (X) to customize etc. are missing. Also dragging and dropping mods seems to be very unsatisfactory as before you simply selected the mod you want, and the cursor would automatically jump up to your mod slots. Having to double tap (A) on things to actually select them is annoying as the game used to just view/display things when you'd hover your cursor over it.

[MidnytAngel18]

Copied my post here in the megathread since it seems more of an appropriate place for it to be.

First things first.... You guys have given us an amazing game. Credit goes where credit is due. I haven't played a looter quite as immersive as Warframe.

That said... my subjective look at update 22.20 in regards to the Virtual UI.

At first, like most Tenno, I was INFURIATED at the change. Not because of change itself but at how overwhelmingly difficult of a task it was, at first, to do simple task that took me seconds before. After tinkering on it a bit for about 5 or so hours here's my take on it:

 

Again, first things first, I think the whole Virtual UI should absolutely have a toggle system. This gives the option of pleasing both the "pro" Virtual UI players and the "nay" Virtual UI players. Doing a little reading and research it would seem even PC players are stating this. It's really not a bad idea although I couldn't tell you if it's feasible or not.

 

POSITIVE NOTES:

CHAT AND GENERAL UI

- The UI itself looks very polished and clean. The "Button Tips" stand out and it almost has a nice shine to the whole look.

- This makes chatting a breeze. I can click on a name and boom! Instant, well almost instant, private message. Anyone who trades a bit in the chat can't deny this bonus.

- Making the chat box itself "floating" is a neat little addition to the QoL,

FOUNDRY

- It improves Foundry "time". I reference "time" to "time in the menu". Easier to get where I need to go. Claim all is a beautiful thing. This is a classic example of when you implement an idea and it works. Good job here!

MOD STATION

- Again, like the Foundry, "time" is cut down here as well. It's actually a lot quicker to navigate the mods than the previous UI could ever achieve. Nice job DE Team! But, to be honest, I feel like many players probably don't use the mod station at all if very little. I feel like most upgrading of mods is done through the Arsenal. Still mighty fine job here.

INCUBATOR

- I suppose if you want to go straight from the first item in the menu to the third or fourth then this UI will do it for you although I really don't think it saves time in this particular menu compared to the old UI. This is more of a neutral, definitely not a negative, point.

OPERATOR UI

- Just a friendly notation here but the operators are really shiny now! Interesting change

- The addition of "Equipment" and "Appearance" is long overdue. Nice shortcuts!

- You can't deny how easy it is to navigate the focus nodes! Nice work here.

NAVIGATION

- Zooming out on the space chart is a pretty cool little QoL feature. I don't think it was there before and if it was I didn't notice it. It probably was but due to the previous UIs limitations you probably couldn't do it.

- I think it makes navigating the star chart slightly easier in some instances.

- It is awesome that I don't have to cycle through notifications up top, I admit. Beforehand selecting Invasions or Syndicate Missions was a complete chore.

VOID RELIC UI

- Clean and sharp navigation buttons. Much more pronounced "LB" and "RB" buttons on the menu. Just seems refreshing to me.

ARSENAL

- Oh the Arsenal... Well... You can quickly navigate down to your gear and pet items. Honestly its a nice feature to have. But Arsenal leaves a lot to be desired...

- I've always embellished PC's pretty Mod graphics. I feel like I can finally experience the graphics of the mods to their full extent.... if that makes sense? The mods look incredible on the PC. We have something similar now.

- Another awesome feature is when I select an item I do not own, and the item comes in a pack, I can review the pack contents right then and there! Before I had to search for the item in the market off of memorization. Good job! Kudos!

 

Ok DE Here comes the pain

NEGATIVE/CRITIQUE:

CHAT AND GENERAL UI

- The implementation of the D-Pad in most of the new UI is clunky and slow at best and at times just straight up unusable. This is a bit of a generalization, I know, but in general it generally does under perform in most menus. I will give examples of this shortly.

- In different instances the same features don't work. Example: I click on a name and I receive a context menu. I can then choose to talk or one of a few miscellaneous items. It usually works if I'm scrolled at the very bottom of chat. Not so much if I'm in the history of the chat. If I opened up a private message and click their name on the tab that is created sometimes it works and sometimes no context menu comes up at all. If the menu comes up I still may not be able to select the items on the UI. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. In other words Its very buggy.

- If I move the chat box and then enter navigation I can no longer move the chat box. I then have to leave navigation to move the chat box out the way. Minor QoL but its there.

- The new UI seems to give us more "time" when navigating the actual menu of the game despite being able to move freely from one option to the other. What could have been done with a couple of simple presses of the D-Pad now just takes a lot longer. Some of that is the learners curve and muscle memory. I'll give you that. Overall it just takes more time. What may remedy this is when the menu is open if you "snapped" the cursor immediately to "Navigation". If the cursor is too far away from the menu options and you use the D-Pad you have to actually wait for the cursor to snap to the menu and the menu isn't usable at all. Another small QoL, even with the old UI, is why can't we cycle through the menu options? If I go down to "Options" why do I have to scroll all the way up to "Navigation"? Even using the new UI I could save time by simply pressing "down".

- In the Options menu, the very same menu I used to turn the cursor speed up, it was absolutely the worst chore of all to actually use the slide bar. Absolutely uncalled for! There isn't a gradual slide without holding down multiple buttons and then moving the stick! The reason why its horrible is BECAUSE you've implemented use of the D-Pad WITH the Virtual UI... But I can't use the D-Pad for a sliding bar in the options? Just seems silly to me. And if I do it'll move to the position of the cursor on the sliding bar and I have to hold a button down and then move the cursor with the Analog Stick. Again... more "time" wasted on something that literally took 2 seconds with the old UI. An example of horrible D-Pad integration.

- Leaving a squad is an unbelievable chore now. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with this. I turn the cursor speed up to gain "time" but when it comes to this, and a few other items, speed isn't your best friend here.

- Using the UI in the middle of the actual playable game itself is a little bit of a stretch... implementing it in the use of choosing Fissure rewards is a bit of a chore as well. Poor decision in my opinion.

FOUNDRY

- I really tried to find someone negative to say about this one but I couldn't really find much. A small QoL suggestion? With the Claim All feature if you don't have enough open slots maybe the UI will tally how many you need and it'll let you buy them in bulk? (Maybe someone might want to do this if they just finished crafting a bit of prime weapons/warframes).

MOD STATION

- Again, same with the Foundry. I tried but it was just really implemented very well within those two specidifc

INCUBATOR

- I don't know if this was intended but after the update there is a slight distortion to this UI menu. The whole interface seems to be tilted toward a downward angle. Maybe its just me? Is anyone else reading this experiencing anything like that in their UI?

OPERATOR UI

- Maybe the Operator is a little too glossy?

- I feel like the UI options could use a splash of color. A little QoL. I will say this, however, all you did was recycle the old focus UI nodes and give them a different splash picture in the background which honestly isn't a bad idea but leaving "secondary" in the node just made it seem like it was lazily done. Sad.

NAVIGATION

- While I find the zoom features of navigation really neat there are also some drawbacks. If I place the cursor on Jupiter and zoom out to the point that Venus is visible nothing is "clickable" at that point. It's also very sensitive... and a little uncontrollable but that is probably a learning curve issue. I feel like wherever the cursor is is where any "zooming" should occur but it seems fixated at certain points.

VOID RELIC UI

- This is probably the worst implementation of the new UI because it's absolutely so slow and clunky. Yes I can quickly find the relic I'm looking for with my cursor but selecting it is VERY clunky at times. Sometimes I need to double tap the Relic in order for it to register as "selected". Then I have to move the cursor over to refine it. The whole process is just absolutely slow now. This is one of the menus that the cursor experiences a little bit of a slowdown. And using the D-Pad? Slows the process even more. Another example of poor D-Pad implementation.

ARSENAL

- There are a lot of things that could have been done to improve the efficiency of this menu UI. To start things off you could have implemented a double click feature on each individual item that will automatically take the item to its "Equip" layout or its "Upgrade" layout. We could choose in an option setting. Rather than forcing us to use the contextual interface. We have to double click to equip. Why not double click to enter the menu?

- Like aforementioned, I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Speed works against you when navigating Arsenal UI. Might I suggest some very small "snapping" of various menu items? Not big enough to where it breaks navigating with the cursor but just enough to hit the little menu options we have.

- While it is smoother, not necessarily quicker, to cycle through your mods equipping them is another matter all together. First, the "Drag and Drop" is silly to implement in a system that does not have a mouse. It just creates more "time" for us in menus. Despite this its still very clunky. Some times I will "drag" the mod and it won't "drop".

- One issue I find very limiting is that I can not "preview" my warframe while navigating the menus in the "Appearence" menu. Why? Why does the cursor have to hover over the warframe to preview its equipment? Its just a waste of time! I'm navigating with the menus with the left analog stick. The right stick literaly does NOTHING at this point! Yet I have to drag the cursor, using the left analog stick which limits my selection efficiency, in order to preview the warframe with the right analog stick? This is simply BAD design. There is no neutral ground for this. Core bad design. Sad.

 

Honestly as I never decided to review anything before. This is the first time I felt compelled to review an update. And as I was writing this I thought I would find a heck of a lot more negative than what I did. As I said before I was initially upset about the change because it wasn't very easy to navigate the menus. But as I finish this up it really isn't so bad... but the things that are bad are very frustrating, if that makes sense? Writing this I stayed as open minded as I could be about the update. Overall DE nice job! But your not finished yet 😉. I can honestly see what you guys had try to do here but one key thing to remember is that we do not use a mouse as console players. This current system would FLOURISH, like it does on the PC, with a mouse. More tweaking is needed here.

 

These are all my opinions of how I feel about the games update. Feel free for anyone that reads this to post your own ideas on here or, especially, creating a new thread and have a voice.

Again, DE thank for creating a wonderful game!!! Keep up the good work!!

[(PSN)DiegoValhalla]

So many players are coming to the Forums for the first time just to complain about this, myself included.

I LOVE Warframe on console but this new update just slows everything down.  I know I"m not adding anything new to this thread but I find the new UI incredibly frustrating.  It was so perfect before!

Please DE...PLEASE make an option to revert back to the old UI

 

[(PSN)crenigo]

DE, change this UI now, every day my friends send me invitations to play Fortnite (another free to play game), but i ignore them because this game satisfies my needs for a quick game to boot, for example i work 2 jobs and like to play at least 30 minutos a day, so i want that experience as quick as possible, now i am afraid of even changing mods, because it takes minutes, if this thing goes on i will have to go the other alternative.

[(XBOX)DS Monkfish]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)devoltar said:

I've commented on some of this on Reddit but the big issue I see isn't the cursor itself but the implementation and lack of compensating UI changes. 

Some big items:

• Larger and more intelligent controls. When doing a console cursor UI, all major elements should be designed basically as if you were designing for a touch screen. One simple change along this vein in Arsenal:
  • Clicking on the frame/weapon should take you to the selection screen.
  • Get rid of the Equip button.
  • Make the other buttons larger.
  • Consider similar design changes in you new UI 
• Cursor friction. This is crucial to using a controller for fine selection and reduces the need to switch to DPad as much. Don't make it super strong, just enough to ease selecting controls
• Intelligent DPad design. The early DPad design is fragmented badly and doesn't always intelligently move based on current cursor position. For most menus it may be worth considering separate selection highlighting with the DPad independent from the cursor (common on PC). There are elements which can't be selected at all.
  • In your new UI items need to be arranged to make DPad pathing clear at all times. This is something that is commonly done badly, so avoid that trap. 
• Key shortcuts for most commonly used items. We don't need every shortcut back (I'd much rather randomize not have one so I don't go destroying my fashion frame on accident any more!), but shortcuts for common stuff would be great, and can see a bit of a reboot with the new UI.

But, most importantly. Get someone who uses controller primarily, has good communication skills, and has good experience with different game UI/UX onto your design team. There are things controllers do not only differently from KB/Mouse, but in some cases better - even in cursor UIs. You need someone who understands the strengths and weaknesses of controllers to provide better feedback before it hits the hordes. 

Excellent post. I'd upvote you if I hadn't used up all my reaction thingies for the day 🙂

[(PSN)Arngrim1]

The additional cursor and removal of shortcuts is my main issue with this update.  Good UI design should focus on making things simpler and quicker, but this update has resulted in the opposite.  The DS analogs were never designed or intended to be a mouse equivalent.  I'm honestly baffled (but not angry) at the reasoning for these changes.

I understand that WF does rely on experimental changes which are refined over time, but for now I've found myself pulling away from it a bit.  I still intend to log in and run the sorties etc, and will be glad to go back to business as usual when the UI is refined, changed, or reverted.  For now I'll focus on my gaming backlog and keep an eye on the situation from a distance.

I've got faith in the guys/gals at DE sorting it out.  All the best.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

Some small tweaks that can help tide us over until the larger UI update.

• Hover on relic and equip menus should focus the item as if they had been activated with (X/A). Then actually hitting the button should select them. I'm guessing you didn't make this change because of the performance hit on PC.
• Create an auto-equip button for mods that equips them based on the following priority [match type (e.g. exilus), match polarity, first available slot] (or something like this).
• Add a "leave squad" and "show profile" shortcut when the main menu is open.
• Make d-pad scroll.
• Remove scrollbars from being target-able with the d-pad.
• Increase the default cursor size slightly.
• Increase the default cursor speed.
• Make up/down scroll the current list and left/right scroll/rotate an alternate item (fixing fashion framing). Not the best, but better than what we have.

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

Let someone force Steve to use a gamepad on his desktop and see what kind of feedback he gives.

[(PSN)CannibalRain]

I must start out with this has been what I have experienced since the update, many probably have gone through the same situations I have, but at the same time, many probably haven't.

While I do like the overall look of the updated UI/HuD, a lot of the overall movement just feels... off. It definitely feels as if it was made specifically for mouse and keyboard. Despite many comparing the feeling to Destiny, even that feels more comfortable than this. The right stick feels more in the way than the Frames being in the shot of your stats. Using the right stick when it came to appearance no longer allows you to spin around and look at your finer details unless you exit appearance and move the cursor out of the way-- it's a bit timely and very annoying to deal with. It also does this when your cursor is hovering over anything else but the frame itself while in the arsenal.  To me, it felt much easier to navigate through options with the d-pad, but not only that, having the shortcuts of square, circle, and triangle to help get to your upgrades, appearance, and general equipment, it now feels like you have to chug through at a snails pace to get to any thing while double clicking everything. At times, I can't even click anything with the cursor hovering over the options either! I wouldn't be as annoyed with it if most of this wasn't a double click or a pixel hunt, as it does feel. I've learned that the go around with this is to leave the arsenal (sometimes twice) to even get anything to click, but with this, I've had to leave groups (mostly during sorties), so I could have time to even swap frames or weapons because the slow crawl or work arounds took forever to even do.

Working with the upgrade screen in both the mod area and configs, it's been a mess on my end personally. Press L1 or R1? Nope. Can't move on either area. I'd have to drag the cursor up to the top to use the config (either clicking on the options or aggressively clicking R1 in hopes that it finally moves), or way to the bottom and still clicking through the mod sets to even reach Madurai because nothing else lights up. On the mod selection, despite the right stick cursor just SHOOTING through mods at a speed unnoticed in any other part of this, the d-pad really was a handy thing to have. The quick selection of being able to click and swap mods with just the up and down buttons and X, really got things done rather quickly and helped get back into missions with ease. Now we've returned to that slow trudge through with mods with the sudden drag and drop option (that really didn't work until I left my arsenal and came back... four times...). It'd be neat if the cursor had the same super speed going up and down as it does traveling through the mods, but it doesn't.

TL:DR; The cursor feels more natural on the menu screen than it does anywhere else in the game. It's mostly consistently in the way, too slow, too fast, or just generally a hassle to work with. Console users definitely need shortcuts when it comes to controllers despite mouse and keyboard integration. I'm not saying get rid of it as a whole, but it'd be lovely to have an option to be able to choose between this or of having the original controls. It's wishful thinking, but it'd be much better than all this slow slipping and sliding, that's for sure.

[(XBOX)Shad0w Rabbit]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)NATE_DOG_2017 said:

i hate this update! please change it!

Please be more specific and give suggestions on ways to improve it. Don't say just change it back because it's been made clear that isn't going to happen, instead we need to give constructive criticism and feedback so DE can improve what we now have.

[(PSN)Yuki5e7en]

Between hundreds of replies, I doubt my comment will reach DE but I'll write it anyway.

The only feature I was hoping for ever since I start playing the game is an easy way and quick to chat by using a keyboard. Before this update, If I want to chat with my party quickly I was forced to Pause > Press L2 > Press Square then wait for the PS4's on-screen keyboard to pop-up before I could use my keyboard to chat. Now I can press T in my keyboard to open the chat but I can't start typing in it unless I press Square for the PS4's on-screen keyboard to pop-up so that I could start typing.

Please, that's one of the feature I was looking for for months. I really hope you guys could read my post through hundreds of comments; Add this feature, a way to chat faster through keyboard. I want it just like PC version, press T and directly start typing then press enter to send the reply.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

23 hours ago, (XB1)SickPuP said:

Feedback from an Xbox One X user:

1. Navigating the foundry using the D-pad is much slower because it is waiting on the new virtual cursor animation to slide to the next selected value. 

2. When a menu open a default value should be selected and the cursor moved to that value.  Users can no longer click "talk" and then select the first option with a simple button click.  The user must move the D-pad or move the virtual cursor over the menu to activate it.

3. When using the D-pad to the navigation places like the foundry or offerings it should scroll when I go down.  Scrolling only works using the right joystick.  

Overall my experience with the new virtual cursor is negative and would severely warn people before begin playing the game because it can be off-putting.

The cursor needs to die, unless you're actually using a mouse.

[(XBOX)XavierBK]

The addition of a cursor is not a bad idea. The replacement of most shortcut keys and dpad functionality with a cursor is a terrible idea. The fact that every menu interaction now takes longer to complete then before is a sign that something was not well thought out. The idea behind a good UI is to make user interactions swift and smooth, not clunky and slow and yet, that is precisely what this virtual cursor update has managed to do.

I have not come across anything yet that is actually faster to do with the virtual cursor, everything takes more time and some things take significantly more time to accomplish the same task as before. This is not OK. This is not a change that people are just "going to get used to," and that is a S#&$ty attitude to have towards the people who are paying your bills.

[(PSN)AS_Orbital]

I as well as many others don't enjoy the virtual cursor. The previous UI worked and there were no issues. I see [DE] commenting on the little things that people point out e.g. various bugs they're fixing attempting to justify the change. That isn't the point of this, the community has spoken it's a terrible addition to force on to console players. The old system worked and I'm more than sure it is not mandatory for the new UI. This thread was created for community feedback and [DE] attempts to justify forcing Mouse and Keyboard interface on console users. Virtual cursors are slow on consoles and remove the fluidity. A cursor speed increase option is there, but it isn't viable. Consoles have buttons utilize them.

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

Notice everyone that supports this says it 'looks good, but needs improvement'? The looks haven't changed, you just proved your argument invalid.

It was improved and that improvement has been cut. Not changed, cut. This is the PC interface haphazardly mapped to a controller. They didn't give us something new, they ripped away what we had and left us with what they hadn't finished. They sped up cert by simply not doing a basic optimization pass.

You have to cater the interface to the system, thats unavoidable. The trick is to impliment it fully and not just tack it on every time. Whatever excuse you give, the fact is they didn't want to bother because they're focused on releasing the Sacrifice on PC. They should have just held off on this update. I'd rather wait in comfort than be S#&$ on in the dark.

Honestly, I'm more hyped for the rollback than the Sacrifice right now, unless they let us sacrifice the cursor.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)Kavriel

[(PSN)mulletmike22]

Neither myself nor my clanmates last night were impressed by the ui changes. The cursor is awful. Selecting a warframe is clunky and slow because shortcuts are gone. Modding something is a pain in the rear with the drag and drop system, and makes it super tough to mod things between missions, or at least, super slow. And leaving a squad takes careful aim, which is frankly stupid, I think. I'd prefer the old UI back, by a long shot, but if we must keep this awful mess, at least address the above, and quickly please.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

1 minute ago, (XB1)XavierBK said:

This is not a change that people are just "going to get used to," and that is a S#&$ty attitude to have towards the people who are paying your bills.

The issue is that they can't go back. Not without giving up -- likely -- months of unrelated work. That's just not how it works. They can't go back in time and undo their mistakes. They can only move forward. So they need to know what needs to be improved/changed to make things work. They're not being obstinate, just stating their reality.