(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)Warden ImmortaI]

I just hate the new PC UI. I've been playing this game for three years and have a warframe account on every console, detesting the PC UI the most. The new scroll function is pretty annoying, and fashion framing has never been so hard with a controller. I played Xbox the most because it's so easy to just navigate through the arsenal with a few clicks of the controller. I was able to even change some stuff while the mission timer was on with the old UI. The point is it would be less argumental if there were an option to switch between UI.

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So in a nutshell you're suggesting that it cannot happen because it will take a lot of work and they'd have to add stuff to the code to make it work. 

 

And you're suggesting this about the game Warframe, a game that has as its hallmark, the fact that they're constantly working on adding new things to make the game better for users? 

I dunno man, something seems off about that logic. 

 

Also, since you listed some of the things that they'd have to do, please consider if those changes would really be so terribly difficult, as half of what you said was cosmetic for what are essentially static screens, compared to, oh I don't know having multiple colour options on multiple skins with multiple attachments on mobile frameworks that move in multiple axes on multiple surfaces on multiple tilesets hopefully without anything clipping........ 

Yeah. Doesn't seem so very insurmountable any more, right? 

 

I have. And I do UX development for a living so I'm not completely uninformed on this.

UX development often feels simple when it's really, really not. It's actually some of the harder stuff to get right and the code almost always ends up being really messy because people are messy creatures -- not in the slob sense, but in that our bodies aren't designed by a mathematician.

Little things like people having different types of vision. Or people having different levels of hand-eye coordination. Or people having RSI issues. Or people having bigger or smaller screens (or DPI). Or that mouse movement is typically in an arc and not straight. And that's before you get to accessibility issues.

There's also the problem with race conditions. E.g. "Okay, I've loaded the images to display the frame, but they've selected something else." Or the results are returned out of order because of network latency issues.

Or the network never responded at all so I don't know if I actually delivered the item or not. What do I show?

Or the fact that linear functions translating input into movement frequently feel wrong. There's a whole line of discussion about how brilliant Super Mario Bros. was because they figured out how to create a really satisfying jump translation (i.e. turning your pressing "A" for X seconds into a satisfying jump animation that does what you want intuitively).

There's a metric s**t ton of stuff that has to be considered and tweaked to creating a compelling UI. And I'm sure they're working on it. So when they get something like this wrong after spending a huge effort overhauling the entire thing -- yeah, I give them some slack.

And, frankly, a lot of the stuff you're talking about with palette swaps and clipping and such are built into the development frameworks they're using. It's not trivial, but just because it seems harder, doesn't mean it is.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (PS4)FurryZenJustice

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

How many months of feature/content drought would people be willing to give up to get this request in?

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ZeroSection said:

My only hypothesis to that is that they were trying to prime us for the big UI changes.  However it seems the real reason was to reduce cert times according to Steve Sinclairs Twitter:

So there's the answer, even if its not one I'm particularly fond of.

Yeah, I saw that just a couple minutes ago.  If they're trying to do us a favor...that's nice of them to try, but the execution has certainly failed.  Controllers will never operate like mice.

[(PSN)Jade_Panther]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I don't like speaking for the majority or minority when I write, so I use words like "some people" because the truth of the matter is we don't know what the actual percentage is that likes/dislikes it. Going by forums/social media is not accurate because he who screams louder doesn't always represent the true numbers of the situation. Only a pole with fair options and enough time can get close to what is majority/minority. With that being said, you have no basis that the "majority" want it back the old way because there is no concrete scientific data to back the claim. Not trying to sound rude, but it's the reality of the situation.

Either way, the decision was made, so all DE has to do now is fix the situation as best they can.

The majority however has spoken in terms of their dismay and like it or not many do want the return of all the lost functions.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

Just now, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Yeah, I saw that just a couple minutes ago.  If they're trying to do us a favor...that's nice of them to try, but the execution has certainly failed.  Controllers will never operate like mice.

Whats funny is its not even the cursor thats bad in my opinion.  Its the fact that they removed all the of the quick keys.  If they just left things alone like Triangle to upgrade, square for appearance, X to equip, etc the cursor would be a non-issue.  As it stands now even modding feels tedious as all get out.

[(XBOX)GUNDAM ZERO117]

Most console players will want the old menu control back or at least one setting to switch 

Die neue Steuerung ist für Konsolen Spieler die mit Kontroller arbeiten denkbar ungünstig und daher nicht vertretbar. Bitte liebes DE Team ändert das GUNDAM ZERO117 auf XBL

[(XBOX)ErikTheSlight]

Over all it is just very different. I find it a struggle to make changes in between matches and such. The click and drag function with mods is particular cumbersome. I did increase the cursor speed which helped a bit, but then it is more difficult to hone in on a small section of the screen and highlight what i need to. Maybe it will get easier in time, but having hotkeys for options would also be a great help. Another thing, since the update dropped I can't access the Warframe servers consistently. It takes a few tries to login via the home screen, and then it'll say I have issues and log me out. Occasionally it will let me play one mission but as soon as the mission is done it will say the same thing, "Server cannot be found, you will be logged out." My other games work fine, and my home network is all in Ordis, so I don't think its on my end. Thank you for all you guys do and the work you put into this awesome game. 

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

Just now, (PS4)Jade_Panther said:

The majority however has spoken in terms of their dismay and like it or not many do want the return of all the lost functions.

You have no claim on that statement like I said in the post you are quoting because only polls show the actually numbers. Only a small number of people even use the forums to begin with. Even if you add the ones who are posting for the first time, it doesn't increase the percentage by that much. If you want me to believe the majority are against it, show me a poll about it after a given time, and I will believe you. Otherwise, all you saying when you say "majority" is pure hot air to me. Claims need a solid number basis to go on.

The claims that the UI was made to make the streamline easier has a basis due to tweets which can be backed up. Claims that it won't be reverted back have tweet claims as well from Devs.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

The problem is that lots of things have already been built on top of it -- and not just UI. Code is kind of like a living thing. Changes sit on top of more changes and you can go back to an earlier time, but everything after that point is lost. So it really depends on when this code was originally integrated. If it was 6 months ago, that's six months of changes lost forever.

Also it was tested. And we got the changes to the d-pad we got because of it. But at some point you run out of time and you have to move forward with what you have and mitigate the problems as best you can.

They could have delayed everything (including Saryn, FX particles, etc), but they took a calculated risk. It might not have been the right decision, but it's where we're at.

Toggling isn't going to be an option. Not unless the community decides it wants to forgo other updates for months and months. And frankly, they already get enough complaints about lack of content.

You're still thinking about it backwards. We're all about moving forward here. You keep talking about taking something out, about reverting. I'm talking about adding something in. 

 

Add in the functionality that would allow people playing on consoles to use our controllers. Again, add in something that will make the game better for console players, not take back the change that made it worse. 

 

At the end of the day that's what is going to have to happen, whether you want to admit it yet. They have to make changes to fix what they screwed up, right now they're just trying to figure out what that means. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Instead of try to fix the cursor problem just get rid of it completely because we don`t need it. Its bad enough that poe`s bugs made my wf data corrupted to where every time I log in I have to impute custom controls, the last thing I need is a cursor making thing twice as long so GET RID OF IT. Also saryn`s molt speed buff duration don`t last as long as the duration you mod for it so please fix that as well.   

[(PSN)IrrelevantSpade]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

If you want me to believe the majority are against it, show me a poll about it after a given time, and I will believe you. Otherwise, all you saying when you say "majority" is pure hot air to me. Claims need a solid number basis to go on.

Tbh, I played Paragon and when they made major changes to that game, I was in a very vocal (what I called majority) group. However, there were people like you saying things like this that allowed the devs (Epic Games) to think that there was nothing wrong with their game and that the changes were fine. Guess what that led to? The game progressively getting worse and worse due to enablers like you and ultimately Paragon is no longer a game because the vocal community that wanted to voice their concerns and displeasure with updates got silenced by enough people like you as well as the YouTube community. So rather than trying to stifle the MANY voices of people voicing their concerns, understand what many of the complaints are and deal. If you like the update in its entirety, then fine, say that. But don't pick fights with people trying to say their opinion isn't valid because they aren't providing you with numbers to show you that clearly there are a lot of unhappy people. Obviously there are enough unhappy people that even devs at DE said that they screwed up. So stop trying to stifle peoples' voices that are trying to ultimately make the game better by telling the devs there is something that makes the game less enjoyable for them. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

[(XBOX)Gangstafarma]

Can we have major updates that affect the player experience that are not complete be an opt out event where putting up with testing new builds for the game is actually rewarded?

[(PSN)edragon46]

Cursor is highly disliked by majority of the console community. It's a console, not a PC. Watching the region chat for a bit and at least 85% of the comments were "anti-cursor". Personally speaking as a veteran player on console, I don't care for it but I know there's a percentage of players that do like it. I believe that the cursor should be an option and not forced down onto players. Messing with in game control scheme's such as the 3 times they changed the controls of archwing (that I noticed) were ever so slightly noticable. The cursor in navigation perfectly fine... The cursor on every f***ing menu... To control scrolling, every chat, rotation of warframe in the arsenal and selection of options in the menus is not for the majority of console gamers. It's rare that I post in the forums and when I do I don't just think about personal gain. This is something that hinders the majority of console gamers.  Again make the cursor OPTIONAL or discontinued. 

Thank you for reading and any consideration is appreciated. 

[(XBOX)Uranaishi]

Didn't mind the cursor until I was attempting to switch my mods. I don't like that now I have to drag and drop them into place, I actually had to redo my entire set up because I dragged it to the wrong spot.

 

Also I am not a fan of having to confirm things, like when I want to switch frames I have to press A like 5 times before the frame switches out to the frame I want. Same goes for weapons, and arcanes. It's really annoying that I have to comfirm 5 or 6 times before it sets in.

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)Uranaishi

[(PSN)FayraFox]

Please get rid of the cursors in the menus. It is clunky and the d-pad input was perfectly fine. If I could get to stuff faster, I wouldn't care but now its slower. Please get rid of this change.

[(XBOX)S34RCHD3STR0Y]

New UI system on xbox is less efficient than the old.  It takes more actions now to accomplish a task that used to just take one button. Now the game requires 3 or 4 actions to perform even the simplest of tasks. Huge time waster. I hate it. Why create a new system if it's less efficient than the old?!  People want to navigate quickly.  Nobody wants to have to perform  1000000000 actions to do something as simple as changing a primary weapon. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by (XB1)S34RCHD3STR0Y

[(PSN)kfrancis902]

Well im almost sure this is going to change lol. DE to their credit respond very quickly to feedback, especially a change with such negative reviews.

It seems to me that any instance in the UI where you can press triangle or O etc to instantly initiate an action should stay, dragging and dropping mods Im not sure about, will have to play with speeds. But Arcane selection is rough hovering over the item is not enough, you have to click item then double click item to equip. picking your warframe them pressing Triangle to upgrade is fast and simple instead of moving cursor across to equip. This reminds me of the transition from windows 7 to 8 it was poorly received because it was to big a gap in change to quickly. you should have did a hybrid of the UI allowing cursor movement but still leaving one button options to test. That being said I am not a developer so it may be easier said than done, but what is certain is this UI is not progressive, it forces players to adopt to a type of navigation that they used controllers to avoid lol. 

The new UI that is expected to launch looked great but Im concerned now, I can see this type of navigation frustrating me to the point I am reluctant to play eventually. Its one thing to start off with this UI but having used the old, it is way harder to swallow. looking forward to rollback/adjustments

[(PSN)neoz2800]

its terrible

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I don't think it has to be said again but most players don't like this cursor.

[(PSN)oskrc247]

En 5/6/2018 a las 10:30, (PS4)Samsait15 dijo:

The new UI is designed to be like pc but on console its really irratating to use. The cursor makes the game much more slow and annoying to play. Its painfull to browse mods, warframes, weapons with this new UI.

Please bring back the old type without the cursor or atleast make the usage of the cursor optional

 

 

 

En 5/6/2018 a las 10:44, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph dijo:

Someone should start a petition requesting DE to revert this update until they can give console users the option to disable it. Seriously, let's roll this patch back!

It's way too much frustrating navigate now with this update. An option of "Off/Disable" will be the best. If someone like it, good, for all of us who don't, good there is a button to go back to the old way.

We appreciated the effort from DE, but, please let's go back to the old way.
 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I don't think it has to be said again but most players don't like this cursor.

You and i disagree.

I think it does need to be said again that most people don't like this cursor.

 

Its ironic i have to fight against something i am soft loving because i can setup my ps4 for M&K. But this has be optional because it is hoooorible on controller.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

I have. And I do UX development for a living so I'm not completely uninformed on this.

UX development often feels simple when it's really, really not. It's actually some of the harder stuff to get right and the code almost always ends up being really messy because people are messy creatures -- not in the slob sense, but in that our bodies aren't designed by a mathematician.

Little things like people having different types of vision. Or people having different levels of hand-eye coordination. Or people having RSI issues. Or people having bigger or smaller screens (or DPI). Or that mouse movement is typically in an arc and not straight. And that's before you get to accessibility issues.

There's also the problem with race conditions. E.g. "Okay, I've loaded the images to display the frame, but they've selected something else." Or the results are returned out of order because of network latency issues.

Or the network never responded at all so I don't know if I actually delivered the item or not. What do I show?

Or the fact that linear functions translating input into movement frequently feel wrong. There's a whole line of discussion about how brilliant Super Mario Bros. was because they figured out how to create a really satisfying jump translation (i.e. turning your pressing "A" for X seconds into a satisfying jump animation that does what you want intuitively).

There's a metric s**t ton of stuff that has to be considered and tweaked to creating a compelling UI. And I'm sure they're working on it. So when they get something like this wrong after spending a huge effort overhauling the entire thing -- yeah, I give them some slack.

And, frankly, a lot of the stuff you're talking about with palette swaps and clipping and such are built into the development frameworks they're using. It's not trivial, but just because it seems harder, doesn't mean it is.

Let me add in a couple more little differences you forgot:

Some people play video games on a pc, and others on a console. 

 

Some people use a mouse and keyboard on their console, others do not. 

 

Now, I'm guessing that those two should affect the way you consider coding your programs and the UI / UX for your programs. 

 

I hear what you are trying to say, but I'm going to remind you that Albert Einstein, arguably a real smart dude wanted to come up with a way to unify everything in his field. He wanted to get rid of all the sloppy code you might say. Didn't happen. 

 

Sometimes it goes that way. 

[(XBOX)DeadlySoulKing]

I played on the Xbox to not have to use a mouse now everything is much slower I just got a friend into the game and now he dosent even wanna play it anymore cause the cursor just killed it for him

[(PSN)Brvnntastic]

The new UI will take some time to get used to but it's fine for the most part. Only feedback I have is that I wish we could get the shortcuts back and modding reverted. When on mod selection we used to highlight a spot then hit the mod we wanted and it would snap in place nice, quick, and easy. Also while modding we could hit Square(not sure the command on Xbox) and go directly to mod enhancement. Also shortcuts on the Warframe selection. I guess just the shortcuts returning, and modding being fixed would be best in my opinion. Forge/everything else will take getting used to as well but it's just a matter of retraining my hands. Thanks for listening!