DE, your development process needs a rework.

[Beartornado]

1 hour ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

What a lot of people here dont understand is that this does not happen with other developers.

It's a little bit tiring how often players say this about a developer.

The rigid controls you want are available in Blizzard's Overwatch. Weeks or months pass without balance updates, content updates, or even new heroes. They had one ARG for a new hero to get players excited and when there was backlash they decided to never do it again.

Surprise surprise the most common complaint from players is that there's no communication and it feels like they get nothing done. There's undeniable quality to most of what Blizzard puts out, but there's undeniable costs to that method of doing things. I'm much happier with DE's interaction with their playerbase, and as I've iterated in other threads they have at no point overhyped the Sacrifice.

This week is going to be high emotion because it's actually here, the fact that so many players are kicking so much dust up about it now is because they are excited for it. I'd call that successful on DE's part even if these players channel that excitement into criticisms that will be forgotten the second after the update comes out.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Beartornado

[Lion]

2 minutes ago, MadGrekon said:

I wasn't expecting it going any further. Remember my first post in this thread?

I simply am not seeing all this bad release pattern you are seeing is all. Instead I think you are overeager for Sacrifice to be released.

It was my opening statement of this post. I can see you actually did not read my post at all.

Quote

The Wait War Within, how it was teased in April, teased again as the big reveal for July's Tennocon 2016, and was stated to be released "in and around Tennocon, by Steve via a forum post. Flash forward to November 12th, a weekend release on a Saturday (oof) and the backlash was tremendous.

1. Teased in April.

2. Teased in July, said to be ready for release "in and around Tennocon"(2017)

3. Releases November 12th, a good couple months after being confirmed to release around Tennocon 2017.

 

This is bad hype management. I can't outline it more clearly than this.

[MiMiren]

4 minutes ago, Blade said:

It was my opening statement of this post. I can see you actually did not read my post at all.

1. Teased in April.

2. Teased in July, said to be ready for release "in and around Tennocon"(2017)

3. Releases November 12th, a good couple months after being confirmed to release around Tennocon 2017.

 

This is bad hype management. I can't outline it more clearly than this.

That's one. The war within update. We are talking about the pattern of delayed releases here. You need more than one.

As far as your opening post goes you complained about the war within and sacrifice. The war within was before POE. That's like ancient history by now. The second thing you complain about is how Sacrifice isn't here yet.

Are you seeing what I'm seeing? That you are unhappy about how sacrifice isn't here yet?

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

9 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

The rigid controls you want are available in Blizzard's Overwatch. Weeks or months pass without balance updates, content updates, or even new heroes. They had one ARG for a new hero to get players excited and when there was backlash they decided to never do it again.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume everything you said here is correct.

So, because this other developer also made mistakes, DE's are... forgotten? Ignored? Just par for the course?

Was there a point to be had here?

And, you know, I'll bet when Blizzard announces something, that thing comes out then. Not four delays later, maybe, soon tm.

[Lion]

13 minutes ago, MadGrekon said:

That's one. The war within update. We are talking about the pattern of delayed releases here. You need more than one.

As far as your opening post goes you complained about the war within and sacrifice. The war within was before POE. That's like ancient history by now. The second thing you complain about is how Sacrifice isn't here yet.

Are you seeing what I'm seeing? That you are unhappy about how sacrifice isn't here yet?

Again, you're critically missing the point. I never complained about The Sacrifice - I complained about the similarities of the situation when comparing it to The War Within's timeline.

Quote

This issue is arising again with The Sacrifice - a quest that has been in the works for presumably a few months now, and was originally teased almost 11 and a half months ago at Tennocon 2017. DE has again jumped the gun by trying to give a release date/timeline before the update was ready to ship (read, READY TO SHIP, not "close") and as it stands now, they are dangerously toying with the risk of failing to meet said timeline - there's hardly enough time left in this week to get the release out and still have a solid day or two for bug-fixing, unless DE wants to stay over the weekend.

1. The Sacrifice was teased almost a full year ago. If we want to be technical, that's even longer than what happened in the case of The War Within - The War Within came out 5 months after it was first teased. And if we want to go back even further, Umbra was guessed to be 2 months away from being released to the international build. That was in 2015. That, is the pattern.

2. I never once said I was unhappy with time being spent on The Sacrifice, in fact I'm glad that it has taken so long, so as to ensure the high quality of the quest.

The majority of my argument here has been talking about DE's habit of hyping something months before being ready to ship, not about how long it has taken to make the quest.

 

The same exact argument I used when I was referring to The War Within was also the argument being used about the premature hyping of The Sacrifice. I really don't get why this is so hard to comprehend. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by Blade

[Beartornado]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

And, you know, I'll bet when Blizzard announces something, that thing comes out then. Not four delays later, maybe, soon tm.

Correct. Blizzard announces things typically the day they come out or the day after. In fact for the most part we don't hear about any new content or changes until they're ready to be put on the Public Test Realm for players to check out. Blizzard might tell us they're playing with balance changes for certain heroes, and they might tell us a new hero is on the way, but it's otherwise completely quiet until the day of the release.

To re-iterate, months without hearing anything from them.

To re-re-iterate, players will literally complain about anything. This doesn't mean DE can't be criticized for their issues, but a statement as nebulous as "other developers don't have this problem" grossly misrepresents how bad DE's practices are relative to the mistakes other developers make.

To re-re-re-re-iterate: at least do us the service of continuing complaining about this weeks after the update as come out so we can see whose here because they have nothing better to do and whose here because they're genuinely concerned.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Beartornado

[Lion]

3 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

Correct. Blizzard announces things typically the day they come out or the day after. In fact for the most part we don't hear about any new content or changes until they're ready to be put on the Public Test Realm for players to check out. Blizzard might tell us they're playing with balance changes for certain heroes, and they might tell us a new hero is on the way, but it's otherwise completely quiet until the day of the release.

To re-iterate, months without hearing anything from them.

To re-re-iterate, players will literally complain about anything. This doesn't mean DE can't be criticized for their issues, but a statement as nebulous as "other developers don't have this problem" grossly misrepresents how bad DE's practices are relative to the mistakes other developers make.

To re-re-re-re-iterate: at least do us the service of continuing complaining about this weeks after the update as come out so we can see whose here because they have nothing better to do and whose here because they're genuinely concerned.

I like all the re-re-re-re-re-iterations going on here.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Blade

[TheMandarin]

i think the op is the person who cannot handle the release date pressure. 

[Lion]

Just now, TheMandarin said:

i think the op is the person who cannot handle the release date pressure. 

I'll tell you what I told the other guy - actually read my post before you start typing.

[Alaeacus]

2 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

Correct. Blizzard announces things typically the day they come out or the day after. In fact for the most part we don't hear about any new content or changes until they're ready to be put on the Public Test Realm for players to check out. Blizzard might tell us they're playing with balance changes for certain heroes, and they might tell us a new hero is on the way, but it's otherwise completely quiet until the day of the release.

To re-iterate, months without hearing anything from them.

To re-re-iterate, players will literally complain about anything. This doesn't mean DE can't be criticized for their issues, but a statement as nebulous as "other developers don't have this problem" grossly misrepresents how bad DE's practices are relative to the mistakes other developers make.

To re-re-re-re-iterate: at least do us the service of continuing complaining about this weeks after the update as come out so we can see whose here because they have nothing better to do and whose here because they're genuinely concerned.

It's a waste of time.  At least DE has the balls to do most things in the game their way, not on every whim of the bipolar fanbase.  We live in an era where the greasy-faced keyboard warrior demands perfection from their service providers and ridicules the efficacy of those in charge, between their shifts flipping burgers.  Nobody is happy with what they have or what things are.  Everyone is looking for what they don't have, and looking at what things aren't.  

[Beartornado]

2 minutes ago, Blade said:

I like all the re-re-re-re-re-iterations going on here.

To re-re-re-re-re-re-iterate: yeah.

TWW was definitely a pretty big Blunder on DE's part, admittedly I still wasn't hit as hard by it because this game isn't the only game I give focus to. However I'm really not seeing the same issue with The Sacrifice. Things like Umbra have been known for a while, and the announcement of the quest was a full year ago, but from my perspective it became quite obvious The Sacrifice was taking a backseat to Plains of Eidolon which had a playable, scripted demo available at TennoCon last year for the sole purpose of getting hype going. DE pretty much focused all hype for the last Fall on Plains of Eidolon, and then around Christmas they gave us a nice little reminder that The Sacrifice is up next with the Apostasy Prologue.

Along this journey I've really never felt like they've promised anything Soon^tm regarding the quest, but again this also isn't the only game I play and I even go weeks without playing it sometimes.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, MadGrekon said:

Khora was released on schedule as I recall. Buggy for sure, but on time.

I'm just trying to waste my time by having a discussion with some drama queens over the internet. Wish me good luck. hehe.

yuuup lol

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

I also would like to add that, should this update release on thursday, all things should be still cool and no one can really complain. If it releases next week, we will yet again have a schedule not being kept considering they've said it comes out this week. Should it release on friday, pray for it to not contain extreme bugs/crashes etc. otherwise we're gonna experience Beasts of the Sanctuary all over again.

And if DE suddenly steals all our banking information and flees with our cash to a private island, we'll all be screwed over too!  /s

We cannot, and should not, condemn people for something they've not yet done.  Period.   I'm seriously just starting to think these forums like to watch people burn for the sake of it.

[MiMiren]

20 minutes ago, Blade said:

Again, you're critically missing the point. I never complained about The Sacrifice - I complained about the similarities of the situation when comparing it to The War Within's timeline.

1. The Sacrifice was teased almost a full year ago. If we want to be technical, that's even longer than what happened in the case of The War Within - The War Within came out 5 months after it was first teased. That, is the pattern.

2. I never once said I was unhappy with time being spent on The Sacrifice in fact I'm glad that it has taken so long, so as to ensure the high quality of the quest.

The majority of my argument here has been talking about DE's habit of hyping something months before being ready to ship, not about how long it has taken to make the quest.

 

The same exact argument I used when I was referring to The War Within was also the argument being used about the premature hyping of The Sacrifice. I really don't get why this is so hard to comprehend. 

oh ok my bad. From what I read I thought the problem was that the war within was delayed  for too long. 

 

20 minutes ago, Blade said:

The War Within came out 5 months after it was first teased.

TWW was supposed to be released around tennocon(july) according to your opening post, not "teased". Try to be consistent in your own thread. According to your op it was teased a year before release... Tease and Expected release time frame are 2 very different things.

 

So your complaining isn't that Sacrifice is being "delayed" (not releasing on wednesday which still doesn't mean it won't release within the announced time frame).

Your complain is about DE teasing Sacrifice a year ago.

SACRIFICE TEASER A YEAR AGO IS YOUR COMPLAINT. REALLY? reread my previous post. I told you, teasing a game 1 year or more before its release is a norm.

I don't even... trolololololololol. That's all I got.

Edited June 13, 2018 by MadGrekon

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, rune_me said:

Am I the only one who secretly hopes that every time a thread like this shows up on the forum, DE intentionally delays the next release with a week? That's how my dad always treated us kids when going on holidays and we kept asking "when are we there". Everytime we asked, he slowed the car down and delayed the trip with 10 minutes. If you behave like little kids, you should be treated like little kids.

I was seriously thinking the same thing!  I want so badly to play this quest, but I'd laugh my butt off and fully support DE if tomorrow the teaser site changed to "Coming this decade".  Seriously, people are so ungrateful.   When I was younger, there was -no- such thing as a free game, let alone one with constant and pretty decent updates!  Perspective...sheesh

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

18 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

Correct. Blizzard announces things typically the day they come out or the day after. In fact for the most part we don't hear about any new content or changes until they're ready to be put on the Public Test Realm for players to check out. Blizzard might tell us they're playing with balance changes for certain heroes, and they might tell us a new hero is on the way, but it's otherwise completely quiet until the day of the release.

To re-iterate, months without hearing anything from them.

To re-re-iterate, players will literally complain about anything. This doesn't mean DE can't be criticized for their issues, but a statement as nebulous as "other developers don't have this problem" grossly misrepresents how bad DE's practices are relative to the mistakes other developers make.

To re-re-re-re-iterate: at least do us the service of continuing complaining about this weeks after the update as come out so we can see whose here because they have nothing better to do and whose here because they're genuinely concerned.

So, you complaints and criticism are good... in a post where you defend this behavior with basically a "b-b-b-but other developers do worse things". If that's your standard, I suppose nothing is wrong then.

[Lion]

5 minutes ago, MadGrekon said:

oh ok my bad. From what I read I thought the problem was that the war within was delayed  for too long. 

 

TWW was supposed to be released around tennocon(july) according to your opening post, not "teased". Try to be consistent in your own thread. According to your op it was teased a year before release... Tease and Expected release time frame are 2 very different things.

 

So your complaining isn't that Sacrifice is being "delayed" (not releasing on wednesday which still doesn't mean it won't release within the announced time frame).

Your complain is about DE teasing Sacrifice a year ago.

SACRIFICE TEASER A YEAR AGO IS YOUR COMPLAINT. REALLY? reread my previous post. I told you, teasing a game 1 year or more before its release is a norm.

I don't even... trolololololololol. That's all I got.

Dude, your reading comprehension needs some serious work.

 

That is not at all close to what those words meant. That's all I have left to say.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Blade
Don't bother responding. You're blocked.

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

We cannot, and should not, condemn people for something they've not yet done.  Period.

I was just forecasting the outcomes for, should DE break yet another promise instead of having learned to keep to promised time frames. I wasn't jumping the gun (yet) so chill your panties.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I want so badly to play this quest, but I'd laugh my butt off and fully support DE if tomorrow the teaser site changed to "Coming this decade".  Seriously, people are so ungrateful.

Making fun of people for hoping for some content again after this half a year has been the literal most content-dry time frame ever is just plain out toxic. Sure, some people might be ungrateful. But you guys aren't better in the slightest.

[MiMiren]

4 minutes ago, Blade said:

Dude, your reading comprehension needs some serious work.

 

That is not at all close to what those words meant. That's all I have left to say.

Your writing might be bad rather than my reading comprehension.

28 minutes ago, Blade said:

1. The Sacrifice was teased almost a full year ago. If we want to be technical, that's even longer than what happened in the case of The War Within - The War Within came out 5 months after it was first teased. And if we want to go back even further, Umbra was guessed to be 2 months away from being released to the international build. That was in 2015. That, is the pattern.

Tease being the problem is the conclusion that one can draw out of this. Nothing else. You imply that there is a problem with TWW and then you point out the one thing common of TWW and Sacrifice. The teaser being around a year ago.

 

You are probably just hiding behind ambiguity and aren't trying to make any whole arguments. Well, whatever. I'll say it again, this thread is as producive as me spamming trolololol. 

Trolololol.

[rune_me]

1 hour ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

Criticism isnt the most welcomed thing here, I've noticed.

 

To be fair, shouldn't criticism be directed at the developers? Like, in the feedback section which the developers frequent and where they actually ask for it.

If you post something in the General Discussion of the community section, it doesn't really qualify as criticism because the people you want to criticize won't ever hear about it. Then it's just complaining to the rest of the community, none of whom has any control over release dates or how DE does things. It's the equivalent of sitting at your local pub and complaining about your local politicians.

[Beartornado]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv said:

So, you complaints and criticism are good... in a post where you defend this behavior with basically a "b-b-b-but other developers do worse things". If that's your standard, I suppose nothing is wrong then.

I didn't say other developers do worse things, and I didn't say the mistakes they make gives a free pass to what DE does wrong. You however explicitly stated other developers don't have this problem, as though DE is the only blundering fool where all others succeed without issue or complaint. 

One of us is being realistic about how bad DE is and what they need to fix, the other seems to have some need to portray them as unacceptably bad and the worst of the worst. Really the latter sounds like someone's upset their precious update isn't here yet, you really don't want to address the idea that you'll stop complaining entirely when baby gets its milk bottle and finally has a quest to sate its crying.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Beartornado

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Blade said:

Since then, DE has made the choice to no longer put any kind of ETA or release date on upcoming content releases, which is completely understandable. However, the problem is they've started using "coming soon" and other variations of the phrase.

"Started"? They've been doing it since before I started playing (2014)

5 hours ago, Blade said:

This issue is arising again with The Sacrifice - a quest that has been in the works for presumably a few months now, and was originally teased almost 11 and a half months ago at Tennocon 2017. DE has again jumped the gun by trying to give a release date/timeline before the update was ready to ship (read, READY TO SHIP, not "close") and as it stands now, they are dangerously toying with the risk of failing to meet said timeline - there's hardly enough time left in this week to get the release out and still have a solid day or two for bug-fixing, unless DE wants to stay over the weekend.

Ironically this is the one time I think DE is on the safe side. Yeah, Second Dream and War Within and Plains of Eidolon all fell right into the huge "in development forever but still felt rushed" issue, but they all had a big air of "this is rushed" before they even released. I don't get that impression this time, I actually feel like DE is actually ready and confident with the Sacrifice, releasing not because they feel they have to get something out the door but because they're finished with it

[Aggh]

57 minutes ago, Beartornado said:

Correct. Blizzard announces things typically the day they come out or the day after. In fact for the most part we don't hear about any new content or changes until they're ready to be put on the Public Test Realm for players to check out. Blizzard might tell us they're playing with balance changes for certain heroes, and they might tell us a new hero is on the way, but it's otherwise completely quiet until the day of the release.

To re-iterate, months without hearing anything from them.

To re-re-iterate, players will literally complain about anything. This doesn't mean DE can't be criticized for their issues, but a statement as nebulous as "other developers don't have this problem" grossly misrepresents how bad DE's practices are relative to the mistakes other developers make.

To re-re-re-re-iterate: at least do us the service of continuing complaining about this weeks after the update as come out so we can see whose here because they have nothing better to do and whose here because they're genuinely concerned.

They also don't release updates (let alone content) at nearly the pace that DE does.  Blizzard has the luxury of being able to take their time, very few f2p studios have that option.

[cookieknife]

I think DE needs to size up and upgrade their team. Warframe makes them plenty of money 

[Aggh]

3 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

I think DE needs to size up and upgrade their team. Warframe makes them plenty of money 

For a single IP studio DE is quite large 😕