Umbral mods discussion

[Bambiiiiiiii]

10 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Stats wise he is the same

The buff he gets is the exclusive mods 

If those mods were to be shared - it would be a 1|1 match

Those mods need their polarities fixed

This is what I meant, sorry i should have said this better. My issue isn't with Umbra being equal, or even slightly better (his Exalted Blade does slightly more damage), my issue is those polarities being inaccessible.

[Kurnuttaja]

Excali Prime is actually better than Umbra because Umbra has twice as long cast time on radial blind and also cannot reload while doing it. But about umbral mods: I dislike the whole idea of them, they are just more power creep on top of power creep but there should be a way to polarize umbra on any frame not just the preset slots on umbra gear

[TectonicKnight]

9 minutes ago, BrianEvol said:

my issue is those polarities being inaccessible.

Well DE's intent was clearly along the lines of "Umbra mods should only be usable on umbra frames."

The only problem is the way they've gone about it is #*!%ing terrible. Sure you can theoretically use these mods on other frames, but for the warframe mods for example:

Firstly, they all need to be used together in order for them to be better than regular mods. If you use one, you need to use ALL of them. Secondly is the insane drain, 1 maxed umbra mod costs 16 points to equip, if you're using the whole set that's a total drain of 48. This wouldn't be so bad, if it weren't for the last thing, you guessed it, their unique polarities. If you were to use these mods in a non-umbra frame, even with a correctly polarize aura that leaves you will 26 points to spread across 6 other mod slots.

Even if you polarized every other slot that still leaves you with an average of 4 energy to spend on each slot.

What this means is that you can use these Umbra mods with other frames, but at the same time, you can't, because their drain will always be so ridiculous that it completely gimps the rest of your build.

Pure and simple, these mods are power creep and nothing more.

Edited June 15, 2018 by TectonicKnight

[Phyrak]

24 minutes ago, BrianEvol said:

This is what I meant, sorry i should have said this better. My issue isn't with Umbra being equal, or even slightly better (his Exalted Blade does slightly more damage), my issue is those polarities being inaccessible.

Definitely needs a fix

Maybe a Nerf to the amount of endo needed too

[FreeWilliam]

I'm very much NOT a fan of having exactly three slots and exactly three mods (only one of which has any real value on my Excalibur builds).

To make a proper Excalibur Umbra that I'll be using NOW I'm going to have to forma all three of those away...but of course if we end up with a wider array of mods (I LOVE the idea of a really cool set mod!) then I'll probably end up regretting that decision.

What should I do, DE?  Should I want to play with the cool new toy you gave me or tune him to be awesomesauce now?

[TectonicKnight]

6 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

What should I do, DE?  Should I want to play with the cool new toy you gave me or tune him to be awesomesauce now?

I'm 100% with you. I feel as though I'm in a position where I can make Excal Umbra usable now with a few forma, but at the cost of potentially locking myself out of future content and irrevocably nerfing my Excal Umbra.

The only other option is to just go ahead and dump about 150k endo and 7.5 million credits on one frame.

No thanks DE, I still have some primed mods to max.

[FreeWilliam]

4 minutes ago, TectonicKnight said:

I'm 100% with you. I feel as though I'm in a position where I can make Excal Umbra usable now with a few forma, but at the cost of potentially locking myself out of future content and irrevocably nerfing my Excal Umbra.

Exactly this!  I suppose for someone who likes those mods then this is awesome, but even if you only like one of the three then you're best off with ZERO Umbra slots.

I think we need more mods, and a wider array of Umbral mods than just power strength, health, and armor.

[Misgenesis]

Theyre direct and pretty hefty upgrades to some of the most essential mods and this is how theyre balanced. Nobody is forcing you to build around them and if you decide to do so, you sacrifice build variety for a better focused build.

Took me 2 Forma to fit them in my Saryn build and i fully accept the loss of variety.

[Sliv]

Well, there is at least one cool thing about those mods : they actually works like true sets, unlike cetus ones.

Now, 48 sure is too much for any classic warframe, but if you put just two of them, it leaves you a capacity of 42 for 6 slots (exilus included), which makes 7 by slot (plus 4 free points with steel charge). So with a lot of formas, it works.

I am waiting to know if those polarities will stay impossible to get with formas before messing my stuff around, but with that much work needed to fit those in a build, i won't bother with anything i don't play much. It's a bit sad to know most of my loadouts are now suboptimal... 😕

Another concerning point is, if i remove my D polarities to make those fit, and primed vitality comes out later, it would have been a total waste... I remember someone asking for polarities to be stackable, and the sloted mod would use its if possible. It would be awesome to add something like this, if we are to heavily rethink our builds.

il y a 39 minutes, FreeWilliam a dit :

To make a proper Excalibur Umbra that I'll be using NOW I'm going to have to forma all three of those away...but of course if we end up with a wider array of mods (I LOVE the idea of a really cool set mod!) then I'll probably end up regretting that decision.

It would also solve this problem, just saying. 🙂

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

1 hour ago, BrianEvol said:

I'm more annoyed by the idea that Umbra, with maxed Umbral mods, is a direct upgrade to my Excal Prime that I'll never be able to replicate, even with Forma and extra effort on my part.

i cant explain how happy i am that this is the case :)

[TectonicKnight]

4 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Nobody is forcing you to build around them

Apart from the meta. And in fact, if I want to make optimal use of Excal Umbra I have to sink hundreds of thousands of endo into maxing all these mods. And it's not just that, I'll just go right ahead quote the very next response because it hits the nail on the head.

2 minutes ago, Sliv said:

It's a bit sad to know most of my loadouts are now suboptimal...

This.
Now when it comes to Primed mods I have far fewer issues, they release them slowly and when they do it's for a limited time. They use the same polarities as their non-primed versions, they're expensive to upgrade because they're end game. It still creates a situation of haves and have-nots and it is power creep, but it still feels fair.

But with these umbra mods, they're legendary, they have their own polarity and they dropped a load of them at once. If you want to get optimal use out of Excal Umbra there is no other way but to max all of these ludicrously expensive mods, only 3 of which have any application outside of Excal Umbra himself, these mods completely destroy any hope of flexibility with optimal builds, before you could make a decent end game build for most frames with 4 forma at most, but these mods will require every slot but the 1 or 2 being used by the umbral mods to be polarized.

It's power creep and a massive time and resource sink combined and packaged with a frame and mission that the community have been anticipating literally for years.

It's disgusting.

[Phyrak]

1 hour ago, BrianEvol said:

This is what I meant, sorry i should have said this better. My issue isn't with Umbra being equal, or even slightly better (his Exalted Blade does slightly more damage), my issue is those polarities being inaccessible.

Current buffs over prime:

- AI

- sentient armour removal

- umbra mods that set him head and shoulders above prime

- exalted blade damage

 

Founders got the short end of the stick

Loop hole definitively

My close friends who I play this with/who are also founders aren't too happy with umbra and how it seems we have been set aside

[Bambiiiiiiii]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)MJ-Cena7 said:

i cant explain how happy i am that this is the case :)

Warframe has always been about customization. From the mod system, to the weapons, to the frames. Options!

This is the removal of options. What about when Rhino Umbra comes out and makes Rhino and Rhino Prime suboptimal? Will you still be as happy? I doubt it.

Edited June 15, 2018 by BrianEvol

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

5 minutes ago, BrianEvol said:

Warframe has always been about customization. From the mod system, to the weapons, to the frames. Options.

This is the removal of options. Don't let your bitterness cloud your judgment.

i am on ps4 so there is not a single excal prime in the game to me so it doesnt affect me but i like that umbra is better than prime warframes his is unique and requrie alot of investment to be better also its for that one frame since you cant use his mods effectively on other frames which is a good thing, but the best part is that its FREE i am a free to play player i paied 0$ in this game and i wont pay 60$ for excal prime even if they brought him back nothing should be locked behind a pay wall in a free to play game. people had the prime for 5 years now i think its time to move on and you can still show him off in you orbiter icon or relays he is just a prime sayndana now and thats a good thing

[---UsU---]

The current solution makes no sense. Either those mods become Umbra Exclusive (in which case, their legendary status is pure nonsense) or the ability to polarize any slots to Tau polarity is quickly introduced. Having maxed all 5 new mods, spending a few legendary cores in the process, I'd prefer the latter solution.

However, I'd like to know asap which path DE is going do take on this issue, before starting to spend forma to remove polarities on my other favourite frames and melee weapons.

 

Edit: the OP's proposal of matching the Tau mods with current polarities seems a bit overkill. I think its fair that we need to apply new forma to older frames and weapons to use those mods, as we had to every time a new prime was added to the game. But make that possible at least.

Edited June 15, 2018 by ---Usu---

[Tenno_Cobra]

Don't really enjoy the changes either.

First there's the exalted weapon changes, which on paper sounds ok, but in reality forces you to spend quite a few forma to remove bad polarities and get the build you want in there. Doesn't help most of the frames with exalted weapons are frames that do not have primes yet, meaning the formas spending tweaking them will be wasted once we get the primed variants. Also, we went from having to put on average one or two frames on most new frames to having to put like five or more... Which sucks both in terms of farming (can only make one forma per da after all) or buying (imagine paying hundred of plat of prebuilt formas just to fit that in.

Then there's the umbra mods, which have numerous similar problems. They are legendary mods, meaning they cost a gazillion endo and credits to level up. This is a huge sink, I've seen people destroy their whole collection of endo statues in minutes since the next update came out... Then there's the fact new umbra frames will have these new polarities, and I'm assuming we'll get the "chance" to add them to our existing frames eventually ,which means reformaing tons of existing slots and reveling , just to be able to tackle the new Sentient heavy content.

[Misgenesis]

1 hour ago, TectonicKnight said:

Spoiler

 

Apart from the meta. And in fact, if I want to make optimal use of Excal Umbra I have to sink hundreds of thousands of endo into maxing all these mods. And it's not just that, I'll just go right ahead quote the very next response because it hits the nail on the head.

This.
Now when it comes to Primed mods I have far fewer issues, they release them slowly and when they do it's for a limited time. They use the same polarities as their non-primed versions, they're expensive to upgrade because they're end game. It still creates a situation of haves and have-nots and it is power creep, but it still feels fair.

But with these umbra mods, they're legendary, they have their own polarity and they dropped a load of them at once. If you want to get optimal use out of Excal Umbra there is no other way but to max all of these ludicrously expensive mods, only 3 of which have any application outside of Excal Umbra himself, these mods completely destroy any hope of flexibility with optimal builds, before you could make a decent end game build for most frames with 4 forma at most, but these mods will require every slot but the 1 or 2 being used by the umbral mods to be polarized.

It's power creep and a massive time and resource sink combined and packaged with a frame and mission that the community have been anticipating literally for years.

It's disgusting.

 

 

So would you rather they didnt release Umbra mods?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Misgenesis

[FreeWilliam]

12 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

So would you rather they didnt release Umbra mods?

I'm not who you asked...but I'd have preferred either that not be added or else we get a proper variety of Umbral mods right off the bat.

Right now we have five mods and five formaed slots to work with and none of us know what to do with those slots if we don't play Excal in a specific way.

[TectonicKnight]

38 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

So would you rather they didnt release Umbra mods?

I'd prefer no mods to what we got. What we got with these Umbra mods is:

Excal Umbra being a straight upgrade from Excal and even Excal Prime, which pissed off the founders

Umbra mods costing a metric S#&$ tonne of endo, credits and forma to achieve an optimal build for Excal Umbra, pissing off anyone not sitting on a giant pile of the aforementioned resources

Power creep in the form of mods that are a straight upgrade to their counterparts, with the trade off being the price of maxing more legendary mods and their $&*&*#(%&ed polarity, forcing any build using even one to be extremely forma intensive

I was expecting a cool new version of one of my favorite frames, instead we received power creep, resource sinks and a new system that completely shakes up every build in the game. I would have preferred the tired old system of "buy a blueprint from the market, grind a boss, wait 3 days for it to build" to this half baked garbage. 

[FreeWilliam]

3 hours ago, Sliv said:

t would also solve this problem, just saying. 🙂

I'm actually fully on board with a wider variety of mods for those slots.  

I mean, what if they come up with a high-mobility set that combines a bullet jumping mod, a sprint speed mod, and gives a bigger superhero landing with a faster recovery?  Or a vampire tank set that combines rage, quick thinking, and adds a bit of healing return on melee (with a set bonus that reduces the quick thinking stagger perhaps)?

DE's got a super creative team and honestly the only thing I'm complaining about is having exactly five mods for five slots.  The temptation to forma them away shouldn't be this strong.

[CanIbiteU]

Quote

Warframe has always been about customization. From the mod system, to the weapons, to the frames. Options!

This is the removal of options. What about when Rhino Umbra comes out and makes Rhino and Rhino Prime suboptimal? Will you still be as happy? I doubt it.

Totally agreed with you, I think there are two solutions for the new mod, first strength the original frame and make them balance, or provide a umbra forma which aloud other frame put umbra mod on it!    

[-_Flex_-]

Im reading some of the comments on the umbra mods for a few minute.

I dont see mutch appreciation of the fact that the whole thing frame/weapons came in a package that was so refreshing to experience.

Yes there are some missing links here and there , and also yes it is hard to place the umbra mods anywhere else than the supposed slots.

I think there is a reason why the devs call thise mods...uhmm UMBRA mods..

Me personally... JUST LOVE IT.  even after i saw that the pressure point on the umbra version is quite weak comapared to the primed pressure point.

I know there is some sentient damage on the mod.. but seriously, why would you make every other umbra mod way superior but leave out pressure point?. 

Not complaining just an observation. Not to mention we cant make any umbra slots so why not at least same as a primed pressure pont?

This is less than a suggestions from me ,cause i want to still appreciate the fact that we finally got something that can match if not outmatch the prestige of the 

excalibur prime. And i also understand that some excal. prime owners are a little bit upset...but dude .... you got umbra to... and you dont even need to craft it 🙂

I think it is a hmmm moment even for the most hardcore...

( And i hope that the sentient damage on those mods hideing a great future raid or some new enemies that will justify the existence and the main dmaage difference )

 

My opinion on the Excalibur Umbra

Best solution ever.

Fair ammount of hype and also live up to it in my opinion. (and that is rare...) 

Great new exalted weapon system. (i dont know your opinion guys but i love it)

9.9/10  (only because that great looking syandana can't be customized individualy :DD) 

 

Peace out Tenno

[ShadowFel]

I like the new Umbra mods (well, the Warframe Umbra mods, since all 3 of them are upgrades to the base version), but I expect that I won't use them on anything besides Excal Umbra (and potential future Umbras) unless changes are made to the way that their polarity works.  Which I hate.  Really hope they're planning on letting us use the Umbra polarity in forma'ing, or making the Umbra Polarity mods also work with the same polarities as their base mods, since otherwise, these mods will be gathering dust, since I don't enjoy playing Excal.  It's also bad if Umbras are easier to get than Primes, since this will mean that Umbras are objectively better than Primes, which will make Prime Access sell worse and make farming for Primes not at all worth it.  Players and DE both lose in this scenario.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

9 hours ago, TectonicKnight said:

Hello insane person.

No. Power creep is bad, especially when it serves no purpose but to make us play through the same content for a 3rd #*!%ing time.

Im so hoping we get umbra for everything... Especially wukong and nidus!

[TectonicKnight]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Im so hoping we get umbra for everything... Especially wukong and nidus!

I'd like to say I'm completely surprised by your preference for braindead frames but it'd be a lie.