Blocked Players Outbreak

[Haizom]

I hope most of Warframe players are aware that some players are purchasing Platinum, and trading them in illegal ways, because before trading those bought PL, they ask for a refund, so... Yeah, most of us know the results. Some players are being blocked because of this with no prior warning. This happens because that bought amount of PL is refunded, so it's removed from the game, leaving some players with negative PL, which leads to being blocked.

I have met with some that opened a ticket about it on support, but DE says there's nothing they can do. Actually they can, and that's why I came here today.

I wanna suggest a new Platinum system. Don't worry, it wouldn't change much. Except for the fact that instead of Platinum being purely a currency, it would also be an miscelanous item named "Platinum" with unlimited amount of stacks, so, if you currently have 59,154 Platinum, you would have 59,154 Platinum items. Would work the same way as before. For instance, imagine someone has 1,000PL. That would be 20 Free Platinum stacks, 230 Bought Platinum stacks from "Player X", 250 Bought Platinum from "Player Y", and 500 Bought Platinum from "Player Z". Once you wish to trade them, you would have to pick which one you would give for the trade (Keep in mind that those Free Platinum are untradeable).

Now I want to point out the main reason for this. Platinum would be split in two categories. Which are Free Platinum (Those 20PL every player starts with), and Bought Platinum. Now the bought platinum is the interesting thing, because once you buy Platinum, it would go to your inventory with your nickname on it, identifying you as the buyer. Once you trade it with someone, your name goes along with that Platinum, so everyone recognizes you as the original buyer of that PL. Some may think that might be invasion of privacy. If you think like that, you would have the option to "hide" your name on them, but DE will be able to see it.

Feel free to suggest any improvement or changes that would be more efficient. We need to get rid of cheaters, no matter what.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Haizom

[Voltage]

I think this is a very bad suggestion that promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming. The real solution is for DE to reverse trades, not ban the victims of credit card fraud or other illegal platinum methods.

[Haizom]

14 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I think this is a very bad suggestion that promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming. The real solution is for DE to reverse trades, not ban the victims of credit card fraud or other illegal platinum methods.

Don't you think they would have done it if they could? This is real money we're dealing with, and real fraud. Not banning those players would be forgiving stealing, and not dealing with it. Thus opening ways for even more cases like this. And who cares if this promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming? People are being blocked, and obligated to pay for something they have never asked for.
If they can, then they're lazy for not pursuing these cheaters.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Haizom

[Fishyflakes]

23 minutes ago, Haizom said:

>who cares if this promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming?
>then they're lazy

Indecision isn't laziness.

Your suggestion is.

[Yaidan]

55 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I think this is a very bad suggestion that promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming. The real solution is for DE to reverse trades, not ban the victims of credit card fraud or other illegal platinum methods.

1- I don't think its a practical solution to keep track of ALL trades JUST to reverse them IN CASE it envolves frauldulent plat and not even punish the cheaters.

2- Even if they could do that, why wouldn't they just use that to trace the plat trough trades to the original account the plat came from? They could at least take out the plat from the last owner to remove from the game but dont punish him for using the game's system.

3- The whole point of this new system would be exactly that, to be able to trace back the original account where the plat came from and get rid of the cheater.

4- If you think this really would promote naming and shaming (which btw wouldn't be an issue worse than the current one, considering the ones shamed would be just the cheaters) then make the name of the original owner only available to DE and make this whole system run in the background and then they just silently ban him and notify the victims that their plat was fake and had to be removed.

[Haizom]

1 hour ago, Fishyflakes said:

Indecision isn't laziness.

Your suggestion is.

If it's indecision, DE would have made a official statement that they're doing something about it, instead of replying "we can't do anything"
Explain how lazy my suggestion is, since it would trace down the cheaters, and deal with the real problem, sparing legit, and honest players. Please.
Yet, you didn't offer any other better solution or improvement. This, my lad, is lazy.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Haizom

[Fallen_Echo]

An easier solution would be a total rollback.

Anything you used up with the fradulent plat gets rolled back to the date where you didnt have it.

Got a 7 days long affinity booster today? All affinity is removed and rolled back to todays amount.

Bought credits? Rollback everything what included credit usage to before the initial buy.

De has data on everything they could easily roll back your account data to a before state and i much rather give up my gains i got this week than get banned with the need to shell out 50$.

[Fishyflakes]

Nvm I'm too lazy to search for staff replies on this.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Fishyflakes

[Meicoomon_Prime]

truthfully with all this plat issue should we buy plat insecure? (yeah i know it sounds dumb, but can work). you pay for coverage of plat, and just in case you get your hands on bad plat instead ban the insecure plan you bought would cover the amount and if neg plat happens, then you get discounted plat. 20% or so to cover the rest the plan didn't cover. or with it you don't get ban but locked down, as in you can log in, but can only go to dojo to sell items for plat. (this insecure is bought with real money only)

But here is my idea fix i think should happen. person that inputs fake plat gets lawsuit not only ban, any plat trade must be covered on their behalf. so no one gets plat removed, the hacker pays plat he traded for items.

but the real and middle fix. most real one would be to keep first owner of the plat I.D onto that plat. the person gets banned and items bought with this plat by another people has option given to them. pay for the plat or have items rolled back items that was given by using bad plat. bought slots with bad plat, have them removed after you sale the weapons needed and such.  best say i can think of give us the option of what we want to do instead of banhammer. the person that gets the bad plat is as much of the Victim as D.E. how much time we put into game is much to the point warframe is part of our life. seeing all that progress taken away instant because of the in game feature. most people will most likely work with D.E on options. Sale our items, can't buy or make anymore items till grind and get the plat by prime items sales and this plat go's to cover the bad plat.  

I can understand why, but seems bad to just say "your Ban from game from trading for plat! instead buy from us!" link to buy plat page. hope the victim numbers is low of this issue an real fix comes soon so the good traders working hard on sailing items is not punished.
 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Meicoomon_Prime

[Fallen_Echo]

17 minutes ago, Meicoomon_Prime said:

truthfully with all this plat issue should we buy plat insecure? (yeah i know it sounds dumb, but can work). you pay for coverage of plat, and just in case you get your hands on bad plat instead ban the insecure plan you bought would cover the amount and if neg plat happens, then you get discounted plat. 20% or so to cover the rest the plan didn't cover. or with it you don't get ban but locked down, as in you can log in, but can only go to dojo to sell items for plat. (this insecure is bought with real money only)

But here is my idea fix i think should happen. person that inputs fake plat gets lawsuit not only ban, any plat trade must be covered on their behalf. so no one gets plat removed, the hacker pays plat he traded for items.

but the real and middle fix. most real one would be to keep first owner of the plat I.D onto that plat. the person gets banned and items bought with this plat by another people has option given to them. pay for the plat or have items rolled back items that was given by using bad plat. bought slots with bad plat, have them removed after you sale the weapons needed and such.  best say i can think of give us the option of what we want to do instead of banhammer. the person that gets the bad plat is as much of the Victim as D.E. how much time we put into game is much to the point warframe is part of our life. seeing all that progress taken away instant because of the in game feature. most people will most likely work with D.E on options. Sale our items, can't buy or make anymore items till grind and get the plat by prime items sales and this plat go's to cover the bad plat.  

I can understand why, but seems bad to just say "your Ban from game from trading for plat! instead buy from us!" link to buy plat page. hope the victim numbers is low of this issue an real fix comes soon so the good traders working hard on sailing items is not punished.
 

Its already bad enough that you are auto treated as a criminal in this shady business.

I mean just think about it, you are not simply banned your account is also held as a hostage and they are asking for ramsom if you want to get it back.

I dont think its even possible to translate this into a real life sceniario where it wouldnt sound stupid, ridicolous and like somekind of scam.

Just introduce a rollback system and thats it.

[Haizom]

The rollback is an interesting suggestion, for now, but not a fix for the real problem. It's just a temporary solution, since the cheaters will still be there spreading "fake plats". The best thing to do is a way to track the original buyer either by having the buyer name on them or with a trade history. The people behind this have to be stopped and banned until they pay their debt. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Haizom

[RedLila]

Most good solutions to this are going to create inconveniences. This simplest cleanest solution is to only allow trading of "verified plat". Plat would become verified after the refund term had expired. So for example, if you have 24 hours for a refund request, you can buy plat, have it and use it for plat market purchases immediately but you can't use it in a trade transaction until after that 24 hours. This would limit the "damage" of plat fraud to the purchaser and legitimate cases of fraud (where a credit card issuer is notifying DE of a fraudulent transaction on card) which would dramatically reduce the instance of this.

[DiosGX]

Reading this thread reminds me why I don't bother trading anymore. 

[Helljack84]

Rollback or only "verified" platinum in trades should be a thing. It's too easily exploitable right now.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

General problem on PC is kindfull policy with Refunds if there will be “No refund” after purchase there will be no problem.

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, Haizom said:

The rollback is an interesting suggestion, for now, but not a fix for the real problem. It's just a temporary solution, since the cheaters will still be there spreading "fake plats". The best thing to do is a way to track the original buyer either by having the buyer name on them or with a trade history. The people behind this have to be stopped and banned until they pay their debt. 

The cheaters are already getting perma banned but this way only the cheaters get caught in the banwave and since the party who received the fake plat is unable to profit from it this solution is the best.

If you ever seen the copy-paste message these banned players get it always says that the plat-reseller/stolen plat user is already banned and the player just got caught in the removal of the fake plat.

 

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

General problem on PC is kindfull policy with Refunds if there will be “No refund” after purchase there will be no problem.

The refund is initiated and enforced by the bank where the money comes from and DE is not powerful enough to fight against customer rights.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

10 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The refund is initiated and enforced by the bank where the money comes from and DE is not powerful enough to fight against customer rights.

Not exactly, this is reason why, we on PS4 haven’t this problem:

 

[el_chanis]

19 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I think this is a very bad suggestion that promotes witch hunting and/or naming and shaming. The real solution is for DE to reverse trades, not ban the victims of credit card fraud or other illegal platinum methods.

scammers deserve witch hunting, naming and shaming. What kind of excuse is this? The people who does this kind of stuff knows exactly what is doing, and should be removed from the community ASAP.

[NeithanDiniem]

8 hours ago, RedLila said:

Most good solutions to this are going to create inconveniences. This simplest cleanest solution is to only allow trading of "verified plat". Plat would become verified after the refund term had expired. So for example, if you have 24 hours for a refund request, you can buy plat, have it and use it for plat market purchases immediately but you can't use it in a trade transaction until after that 24 hours. This would limit the "damage" of plat fraud to the purchaser and legitimate cases of fraud (where a credit card issuer is notifying DE of a fraudulent transaction on card) which would dramatically reduce the instance of this.

 

5 hours ago, Helljack84 said:

Rollback or only "verified" platinum in trades should be a thing. It's too easily exploitable right now.

Unless you are willing to wait upwards of 120 days or more, the average charge back period, verified plat idea is a no go.

[LuckyCharm]

I know its not a fix..  But why are people rolling back plat purchases?  Because whatever theyre trying to buy is super rare or is a riven that they want.  Perhaps the solution then atleast partly is to address what rare items are really necessary to keep rare.  Imo things like artax rivens and primed chamber should never have been kept exclusive and extremely rare.  Theres literally no reason for it and people ive talked to dont even want to use primed chamber on their guns and others want to actually use artax rivens because they like the beam.  As for riven price inflation..  Perhaps the cause is the dispositions are rarely if ever updated. This needs to be changed as it just makes rivens power creep rather than what they were introduced as

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Not exactly, this is reason why, we on PS4 haven’t this problem:

 

Most fake plats here on pc appear by initiating rollbacks what can you make for up to 120 days or even more.

This is how it works:

Player A buys plat from the website->Player A goes on a trading spree and buys a lot of stuff from player B, C and D while also sends out some non-refundable gifts to Player E->Player A initiates a rollback with their bank->Everybody who got Player A's plat or got gifts from him is now holding "fake" plat and/or non refunable gifts.

What happens now?

• Player B, C and D loses the plat they got entirely, if they spent more plat in that time than what they got they will get banned.
• Player E gets to keep whatever gift he got but he has to pay for it, if he goes negative balance because of this he will get banned.
• Player F is someone who doesnt got in touch with the original scammer but got some plats throught trading from Player D. He bought Nidus from the market and as such DE first removes the plat he received lets say its 225 plat just enough for nidus then because he bought him DE removes additional 225 plat to offset the purchase. In total thats -450 plat.

 

The fake plat issue as in hacked game program randomly generates plat is almost non-existant, every person caught in banwaves were either bought plat stolen from people or got chargeback plat.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

47 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Most fake plats here on pc appear by initiating rollbacks what can you make for up to 120 days or even more.

This is how it works:

Player A buys plat from the website->Player A goes on a trading spree and buys a lot of stuff from player B, C and D while also sends out some non-refundable gifts to Player E->Player A initiates a rollback with their bank->Everybody who got Player A's plat or got gifts from him is now holding "fake" plat and/or non refunable gifts.

What happens now?

• Player B, C and D loses the plat they got entirely, if they spent more plat in that time than what they got they will get banned.
• Player E gets to keep whatever gift he got but he has to pay for it, if he goes negative balance because of this he will get banned.
• Player F is someone who doesnt got in touch with the original scammer but got some plats throught trading from Player D. He bought Nidus from the market and as such DE first removes the plat he received lets say its 225 plat just enough for nidus then because he bought him DE removes additional 225 plat to offset the purchase. In total thats -450 plat.

 

The fake plat issue as in hacked game program randomly generates plat is almost non-existant, every person caught in banwaves were either bought plat stolen from people or got chargeback plat.

I know exactly how it works, like SONY, so I would like to put in attention this: “Your children or any member of family” because this is, IMO, 99% of causes, because if I got access with any illegal ways to other account my first and probably last purchase will not be buying electronic currency from video game. So, I guess, SONY locked player A account without affecting players B,C,D etc. and start act like stated in Policy.

Absolutly agree with Plat generators because I can’t imagine that enclosed virtual currency system which knows where the single Plat is will not be able to detect fake Plat in split second.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I know exactly how it works, like SONY, so I would like to put in attention this: “Your children or any member of family” because this is, IMO, 99% of causes, because if I got access with any illegal ways to other account my first and probably last purchase will not be buying electronic currency from video game. So, I guess, SONY locked player A account without affecting players B,C,D etc. and start act like stated in Policy.

Absolutly agree with Plat generators because I can’t imagine that enclosed virtual currency system which knows where the single Plat is will not be able to detect fake Plat in split second.

Okay i think you still miss a key point here, the plat has entered the system and its fake.

If i bought 4000 plat and gave you 2000 while you had none, you will have 2K plat. If you buy anything from the market with that you will have less than 2K plat what means when they go to remove the fake plat from the system after banning me you will too get that plat removed and since you now have less than the original amount you get into negative balance and get banned.

DE simply cannot go and ignore Player B, C and D because they might have been allies in this crime with A and even if they were not they cant let fake plat circulate in the system. They also cant let the fake plat by negated out with trading since that would still mean that legit plat gets removed from the system thanks to some scammer.

[ScribbleClash]

Guilty unless proven innocent.
The current situation is not acceptable. The trade of digital goods can and will become a big legal issue for DE, if they show no will to implement counter-measures.

What could be done?
DE could lock newly aquired platinum to become untradable for a set time depending on the chargeback option (e.g. two weeks). Items may be bought, traded or gifted, however this only applies if you have enough tradable platinum to back up the purchase of the item in question.

Yes, this would be inconvenient, but security often means that you have to wait a bit longer.

[krc473]

Just now, ScribbleClash said:

DE could lock newly aquired platinum to become untradable for a set time depending on the chargeback option

The longest chargeback time I believe is around 6 months. Why would you buy platinum if you could not trade it for that long?

• You get one month to start a dispute where I live. This could go on for a few weeks (being pessimistic)

This goes far beyond just being a little inconvenient. 

 

I agree, something really needs to be done about it.

• Why should I pay for platinum when my account might get locked if I sell items? (assuming I buy some items from the market)