Let's talk about the Ghouls

[Arxfiend]

Remove them. Just, remove them.

Maybe when the event is going on, it's fine. THEN maybe I can stand seeing those stupid things. But outside the events?

 

Just remove them. They don't add anything positive to the plains. All they do is act as a nuisance when trying to complete tasks in the plains. Even worse is that outside the event, they seem to be popping up almost as much as during such. 

 

Just, get rid of them.

[GinKenshin]

What if I like them and want them to stay? They’re cute, especially the chubby one

[kyori]

24 minutes ago, Arxfiend said:

All they do is act as a nuisance when trying to complete tasks in the plains. Even worse is that outside the event, they seem to be popping up almost as much as during such. 

That... is exactly why they’re still there outside of the event. DE wants them to be like that. 

[Xaero]

Don't remove them. Just, don't remove them.

When the event is going, it's fine. I can always stand seeing those smart things. And outside the events too.

Don't remove them. They add something positive to the plains. All they do is act like a boon when trying to complete tasks in the plains. Even better is that outside the event, they seem to be popping up almost as much as during such.

Just, don't get rid of them.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Arxfiend said:

Just remove them. They don't add anything positive to the plains. All they do is act as a nuisance when trying to complete tasks in the plains. Even worse is that outside the event, they seem to be popping up almost as much as during such. 

That's the point of ambush troop style enemies? To be a nuisance? Keep your eyes open during combat, don't forget that they're around.  Frankly we need MORE of this kind of stuff, not less. Way too many 'vanilla' enemies. We need some more fancily designed enemy units in this game that take a little mental effort to beat. Not much, we're not playing DMC here, but more stuff that can make us think twice would be nice.

[Kalvorax]

honestly, im fine with the ghouls....what I'm NOT fine with is the damn messages every single ghoul invasion..before AND after....moreso because i really dont care about it

[W3zeer]

idk they are apparently the coolest enemy type in the game. Literally because they always freeze you when they die, such fun 😉

[Arxfiend]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

That's the point of ambush troop style enemies? To be a nuisance? Keep your eyes open during combat, don't forget that they're around.  Frankly we need MORE of this kind of stuff, not less. Way too many 'vanilla' enemies. We need some more fancily designed enemy units in this game that take a little mental effort to beat. Not much, we're not playing DMC here, but more stuff that can make us think twice would be nice.

There's no more mental effort involved with them though. The only difference is that they're random spawns throughout any spot in the map except the immediate area around the gate. They're handled no different than any other enemy other than the sheer annoyance they cause when trying to do plains involved bounties, especially with the "undetected" modifier.

4 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Don't remove them. They add something positive to the plains. All they do is act like a boon when trying to complete tasks in the plains.

I don't quite understand how a random spawn that will interrupt undetected modifiers on rivens, aren't even handled that different than normal enemies, and make me listen to Vey Hek's voice, is a boon.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Arxfiend said:

There's no more mental effort involved with them though. The only difference is that they're random spawns throughout any spot in the map except the immediate area around the gate. They're handled no different than any other enemy other than the sheer annoyance they cause when trying to do plains involved bounties, especially with the "undetected" modifier.

I don't quite understand how a random spawn that will interrupt undetected modifiers on rivens, aren't even handled that different than normal enemies, and make me listen to Vey Hek's voice, is a boon.

(I tend to go on when I get started on game design thoughts, so I've compacted it into the Spoiler tab. The Tl;Dr is pretty much the conclusion. Open the Spoiler if you want more detail.)

Spoiler

When I say a 'vanilla' enemy, I don't mean an enemy that you need to jump through a hoop to defeat or gets a special announcement for it' arrival (as a matter of fact, I consider Prosecutors Vanilla enemies despite fitting both of those, although they aren't a 'main' unit type according to the Wiki). I mean an enemy that isn't almost identical to the majority of others in its faction outside of model and colour. Of the 23 Main Grineer units on the wiki, four are melee units copy-pasted with slight stat variations, six have functionally identical AI except for some token ability at best and another six are only not in the previous two catagories because their abilities do necessitate a slight tactical change, but otherwise possess the same AI. Specifically, these enemies are Butchers, Baliffs, Powerfists and Guardsmen for Melee; Lancers, Elite Lancers, Scorches, Troopers, Seekers and Heavy gunners for the second, and Scorpions, Flameblades,  Eviscerators, Napalms, Bombards and Commanders. In the best cases, the latter six, they do either have some tactical difference or AI difference because of their special ability. For example you can dodge Bombard and Eviscerator fire, and they tend to hang back a bit more. But otherwise, they're petty much identical.

Compare these to Ghouls. Right off the bat, they have a exclusive special ability - they spawn from special points in the ground that are camouflaged somewhat, meaning the unaware eye can miss them, and they spawn in an unpredictable order. Already, there is a tactical difference - you have to be aware of your surroundings in PoE otherwise you'll get ambushed. Secondly, each Ghoul uses distinct AI which means that the player is rarely presented with all the enemies pathfinding to the same location because they all have the same AI saying that's the best spot to go. Expired use the Infested Leaper AI, which is copy-pasting yes, but across factions, so they aren't identical to other enemies in that faction. This means they will always gang up around you. Augers have mid-range weapons, meaning they'll stick at mid range and use their special ability of tunneling to make the exact positioning and timing of their attack ambiguous, meaning you can't stay in one spot and lay waste to the area as easily. Rictus are the only ones with actual long-range capabilities, meaning they'll often wind up much further away than the others, taking occasional potshots. They'll then charge in when an opening is provided. Devourers are the most similar, either lumbering towards you slowly like an Expired or suddenly dashing like a Rictus. However, they'll also trip you like Scorpions, which along with larger health pools and being a big, round and obvious means that they're tactically and visually a bigger target than other Ghouls meaning you're more likely to focus on them and miss other Ghouls, letting them get the drop on you, meaning they function as meat shields for the others. Then, finally, Ghouls have a second exclusive ability that's similar (but not identical) to Noxes - they leave a small cloud briefly after death that does chip damage and slows you. Meaning that you need to watch where you step.

See what I mean? Sure, each of them are as easy to dispose of as any other enemy in the game. Absolutely. But each one is different in more than a few token ways. And this does mean that overall, fighting Ghouls DOES take more thought than a squad of other Grineer. As I alluded to, the shared AI means that regular Grineer Gun mooks have a tendency to bunch up because the AI of two different enemies is telling them to go to the same place. Which means that you point, shoot, and barely readjust your aim and every single enemy is dead regardless of what type they were. They differed in stats only, as does everything else surrounding you. There's not even a hint of strategy. But with Ghouls, the only enemies that do this consistently and stay grouped are Expired. Devourers, Augurs and Rictus can group up if conditions are right (usually that they're close by), but will either split off somehow or not have been a part of the Group to begin with under different circumstances. It's hardly a grand strategy, of course. And Ghouls only having four enemies in the class means the number of possibilities is extremely limited. But I'm sure you get the picture at this point.

Basically, Ghouls are a change of pace from regular Plains Grineer. Getting rid of them would make the plains worse by homogenising the encounters even more than they already are. A 'nuisance' that changes the rules in certain circumstances makes fighting the Plains Grineer more Interesting. If you went to four Grineer camps without Ghouls in PoE, each encounter would be fundamentally the same, and that would be true of all the encounters on the plains that day. But add the Ghouls now. Now, traveling between camps (assuming this is on foot) becomes more interesting, either because you're watching out for Ghouls, or get suddenly ambushed. Moreover, if you encountered Ghouls at all, not only was there an extra combat encounter, but this 20% of the combat was different than the other 80% Psychologically, that makes a lot of difference.

[peterc3]

22 hours ago, Arxfiend said:

Remove them. Just, remove them.

Maybe when the event is going on, it's fine. THEN maybe I can stand seeing those stupid things. But outside the events?

 

Just remove them. They don't add anything positive to the plains. All they do is act as a nuisance when trying to complete tasks in the plains. Even worse is that outside the event, they seem to be popping up almost as much as during such. 

 

Just, get rid of them.

I mean, you could just get gud. That would help with fighting enemies.

In a sense, every enemy is a nuisance on the Plains, so DE should just get rid of any enemies and let us freely loot everything.

[SilverRook]

Then where are you going to farm nitain? (outside of alerts)