75% discount should be baseline

[CalmClouds]

2 minutes ago, Valmarr said:

I'd honestly go for the used car.

I'd spend 1500$ on a good pc, then another 500$ when the 75% discount was up, for the same value as I'd get for spending 2000$ without the discount.

Edited July 15, 2018 by CalmClouds

[Thrymm]

Plat at base price is not a very good value.  Even if someone has more money than brains spends and spends thousands on it, that doesn't suddenly make it a good thing. 

As I'm sure folks are quite aware, the lack of discounts on these platforms is the sole province of the console manufacturers----just remember, every time you overspend on a microtransaction on one of these, you're perpetuating the problem for yourself---sony and microsoft COULD give developers much more ability to offer you nice things if they didn't gouge them for a cut they scarcely deserve, if at all.

Plat at the 75% discount is, quite possibly, one of the better values in gaming today.  You can get serious mileage with a modest 75% discount purchase, placing the actual cost well below a AAA title and subscription costs for the same time period that it'll last you through.

And yet Prime Access is substantially more costly than the 75% discount(and also sells well, I might add).  Dropping the price to that level as normal would grossly devalue the prime access packages, as well as nearly eliminate their marketing value.  Because of the rest of the price structure, an all encompassing 75% price reduction would be difficult to make work.

I do wish I'd see it come up a bit more often, though.  I also would like to see the log in rewards actually be random---choose to not log in for three weeks and I'd all but guarantee that you'll see a discount coupon come up, probably on the first or second day.  Log in daily, be a good, loyal customer that stays tight with the game and you'll see them trickle down to nearly none.  These discounts are not offered for customer retention, they're tossed out to rope in "new".  Ok for growth, but not great for long term game health.

[CalmClouds]

@Thrymm You're right. I never considered that the prime access packs are a part of this. I knew that taking a break from the game guarantees a discount coupon, but I didn't know that discounts coupons become more rare the more you stick with the game. Knowing that now, I might actually put down the game for a while if I don't get a discount soon, and come back later when I'm guaranteed to have one. It really is an odd system, if this is really how it operates.

Perhaps a better system would be to give players a discount every 2 or 3 weeks, regardless of them being active or inactive in the game.

Edited July 15, 2018 by CalmClouds

[Omega-Shadowblade]

7 minutes ago, CalmClouds said:

 

Perhaps a better system would be to give players a discount every 2 or 3 weeks, regardless of them being active or inactive in the game.

That's pretty tricky, If you know you are guaranteed to get a discount at certain times on a timer, you are certainly not going to buy off the discount. That's a very direct influence towards sales in general. Could tilt things heavily. Also means if you don't get the discount you want you'd keep waiting till you did get the one you want.

[CalmClouds]

@Omega-Shadowblade You can already do that, except you need to actually quit the game for a while from the looks of it. Honestly, I'm now more interested in knowing who buys platinum without any discount and what their reasons are. As for me, buying off the discount never once crossed my mind. It's just not worth it.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

If a person is staying away long enough to get the guaranteed coupon, they probably aren't really interested in the game. 3 weeks is not exactly a short time. (still not 100% sure that you're guaranteed a coupon even).

I imagine a person buying with no discount either really wants to support the game, or has more money than they really need.

[CalmClouds]

Using the same weapons and frames, or grinding the same thing over and over isn't that interesting to me. So yeah, I suppose I'd reach the point where I'm just not that interested in the game anymore. Fast forward three weeks later, and I'll probably be delighted that I can get my hands on some new weapons, which should spark my interest again.

I just don't feel like going through that cycle over and over anymore. It's somewhat tiring.

Edited July 15, 2018 by CalmClouds

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Sounds like burnout. That can happen. Best cure for that is to take a break and get some variety.

[TheJagji]

6 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

That being said, I almost never buy platinum when I don't have a 75% discount coupon, because why the hell would I?

 

The rest of your post was voided by this. You are asking for DE to make the 75% off the price the stood, and yet, for you, it is as you never buy with anything less. What are you complaining about? Nothing. DE is making a video game, and you are asking for there currency to be cheaper. And then what? You gonna wait till that's on 75% too and then ask for that price to be the new standed because never buy it when it's not on sale? 😛

[CalmClouds]

@TheJagji No. You know you're being silly now, come on. I mean, why would i wait for an additional 75% when I'm comfortable with spending money with the current discounts. That would be so low that it would devalue any efforts the players make to farm things. 

I think you should understand a proposition first before you attempt to argue against it.

[TheJagji]

28 minutes ago, CalmClouds said:

@TheJagji No. You know you're being silly now, come on. I mean, why would i wait for an additional 75% when I'm comfortable with spending money with the current discounts. That would be so low that it would devalue any efforts the players make to farm things. 

I think you should understand a proposition first before you attempt to argue against it.

Because you are in the habit of doing it now. Are you seriously telling me that if they dropped the price, they also had the discounts in place, that you would not hold out for that magic number? Humans are creators of habit. You would still do it due to habit.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

I've been playing it for a few years now and I've probably spent over 400€ on it during this period.

 

8 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

I mean, 179.99€ is by no stretch of the imagination a "micro" transaction. Maybe I'm too old school. Maybe I'm too stuck in the old days when you would pay 40 to 60 € for an entire game that was worth months of entertainment. Perhaps that is why I think it is absolutely absurd that a game would ask for so much money, yet here I am, having spent at least 5 times that amount already, and still planning on spending even more in the future.

400 isn't 5 times 180.

180 isn't 5 times 40 to 60.

400 isn't 5 times 40 to 60.

 

I can't figure out what's supposed to be 5 times what at this point, but the numbers don't seem to work at all in that first post. 

 

BTW, back in the actual old days, there was shareware and 60€ didn't even exist yet. 😅

 

Gosh I'm old. 😞

[motorfirebox]

Chill, guys, it's just economics. Well, economics and human psychology.

If humans were rational creatures, then we'd rationally pick a price point that we were comfortable with and it wouldn't matter if we had to wait for a 75% discount out not—we'd buy the thing if the price point is right, and we wouldn't if it isn't.

Humans are not rational creatures. We consistently overvalue discounts. If the regular price were at the 75% off price point, there's a pretty high likelihood that DE would not get enough more sales to make up for the discount, because statistically a lot of people who buy at the 75% off price point wouldn't buy if that were the regular price. They buy because 75% off seems like too great a deal to pass up. People are more likely to buy something they don't actually want if they think they're getting a deal. The % off coupons are doing their job: bringing in sales that probably wouldn't happen otherwise.

[CalmClouds]

1 hour ago, TheJagji said:

Because you are in the habit of doing it now. Are you seriously telling me that if they dropped the price, they also had the discounts in place, that you would not hold out for that magic number? Humans are creators of habit. You would still do it due to habit.

What?

[Fallen_Echo]

12 hours ago, bluepheonix13 said:

But why would they? This would probably increase the number of plat sales by a little bit, but due to the many people who would have bought it even at current normal price, this would also massively hurt them in terms of money income. Your proposition is basically guaranteed to lose them money with no benefit, while the current system on the other hand works fine. 

But are you sure that people regularly spend cash buying plat for normal prices?

The plat is hella expensive normally and i doubt that many players choose to spend thousands for it (except the poor console tenno).

Edited July 16, 2018 by Fallen_Echo

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Chill, guys, it's just economics. Well, economics and human psychology.

If humans were rational creatures, then we'd rationally pick a price point that we were comfortable with and it wouldn't matter if we had to wait for a 75% discount out not—we'd buy the thing if the price point is right, and we wouldn't if it isn't.

Humans are not rational creatures. We consistently overvalue discounts. If the regular price were at the 75% off price point, there's a pretty high likelihood that DE would not get enough more sales to make up for the discount, because statistically a lot of people who buy at the 75% off price point wouldn't buy if that were the regular price. They buy because 75% off seems like too great a deal to pass up. People are more likely to buy something they don't actually want if they think they're getting a deal. The % off coupons are doing their job: bringing in sales that probably wouldn't happen otherwise.

That could be fixed with having a monthly period starting from 5-15 where plat is always 75% off. This would be enough to boost the sales while it still keeps the illusion that you are making a great deal.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

That could be fixed with having a monthly period starting from 5-15 where plat is always 75% off. This would be enough to boost the sales while it still keeps the illusion that you are making a great deal.

 

12 hours ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

That's pretty tricky, If you know you are guaranteed to get a discount at certain times on a timer, you are certainly not going to buy off the discount. That's a very direct influence towards sales in general. Could tilt things heavily. Also means if you don't get the discount you want you'd keep waiting till you did get the one you want.

What he said. 

[Darkuhn]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb CalmClouds:

Who in their right mind wouldn't want to buy a product for a lower price?

Players who supported the game from the Start and want to keep getting Updates for the Game.

Also your Idea would heavily devalue Prime Access and Prime Vault Packages because their Plat would have a much higher Price.

And PA is DEs main source of income.

[ikkabotz]

Then there'd be no 75% off discount to hook into a sale. Baseline, would just lead to people wanting discounts in it. So if we had something like 1.25 baseline it'd drop down to like .32 cents. Plus it'd flood the market with more plat, wouldn't that affect the value of trades?

[NeithanDiniem]

21 hours ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Also, do you realise that his proposition would make your life on consoles better too? 

Do you realise that console wouldn't get a price change because the platform companies would not agree to it? Why do you think they don't get a 75% off already? Because they don't want their cut dropping too much. This type of change would only work on PC, which is why it won't change.

[CalmClouds]

1 hour ago, Darkuhn said:

Players who supported the game from the Start and want to keep getting Updates for the Game.

Also your Idea would heavily devalue Prime Access and Prime Vault Packages because their Plat would have a much higher Price.

And PA is DEs main source of income.

So players who supported the game from the start and want to keep getting updates are, according to you, are the only people who would willingly give the company money for very little value in return. 

First of all, why would you assume that only those players would be willing to do that. You also seem to imply that players who want to support the game do it out of their goodness of their heart, which simply isn't the case. Moreover, you seem to be under the impression that if those players could get more value for their money, that they would necessarily spend less money as a direct result. They could, in fact, be spending the same amounts of money for more value, which is absolutely the most sensible thing to do.

That brings us to a full circle, to which point i need to ask the same question again. Why would a player who wants to support the game and keep the updates coming, spend an amount of money for goods, when he could be spending the exact same amount of money to support the game and keep the updates coming but get 4 times the goods in return.

 

Yes, the Prime Access packs would be devalued... so just increase the platinum they contain to match the new price.

Lastly, no. You can't know what DE's main source of income is, just as much as I can't know what their main source of income is. I don't claim to know more than I do, and neither should you. That is a baseless assertion, and if i'm wrong about it then please present your evidence.

Edited July 16, 2018 by CalmClouds

[ikkabotz]

13 minutes ago, CalmClouds said:

So players who supported the game from the start and want to keep getting updates are, according to you, are the only people who would willingly give the company money for very little value in return. 

First of all, why would you assume that only those players would be willing to do that. You also seem to imply that players who want to support the game do it out of their goodness of their heart, which simply isn't the case. Moreover, you seem to be under the impression that if those players could get more value for their money, that they would necessarily spend less money as a direct result. They could, in fact, be spending the same amounts of money for more value, which is absolutely the most sensible thing to do.

They're called whales, it's actually a big part of a gaming market that spends the most money, basically those "hooked" and loyal to a game are the biggest contributors with their wallets. I'm talking overall sales.

They aren't the only ones who would, but they are the ones proven to do it significantly. It's not a Warframe phenomenon either, this is like "video game analytics". Google "whales video games" or something.

Whales fork over the most dough, that's why you see Prime stuff selling at 130 bucks, because people pay it

Edited July 16, 2018 by komoriblues

[(XBOX)SickWicked]

There was a company here in the states that did something like this, if not exactly this and they lost tons of money that they reverted the pricing and brought back coupons.  The company constantly had coupons going out to their customers at different times every month or every other month.  They figured just selling at the lower price the customer would pay with the coupons would bring in more customers and/or have people buying more stuff... it did the reverse.  People only went there to spend money because they felt that they were getting a deal.

Links:

Spoiler

 

http://business.time.com/2012/05/17/why-jcpenneys-no-more-coupons-experiment-is-failing/

https://consumerist.com/2013/01/28/that-didnt-last-long-jcpenney-brings-back-sales/index.html

 

I know your not suggesting getting rid of coupons... but that would be a logical thing to do if it was always sold at the 75% discounted rate price point.  but if the coupons where left intact...  what is it to stop people from just waiting to get 75% off coupon at the new lowered cost... which is what people would do anyways. Because of the feeling of getting the best bang for their money. 

TL:DR  It most likely will not increase any kind of sales...  people buying on discounts are only buying because it's discounted and they feel they are getting a great deal and maximizing the money spent regardless of what the starting price point is.

 

 

[CalmClouds]

15 minutes ago, komoriblues said:

They're called whales, it's actually a big part of a gaming market that spends the most money, basically those "hooked" and loyal to a game are the biggest contributors with their wallets. I'm talking overall sales.

They aren't the only ones who would, but they are the ones proven to do it significantly. It's not a Warframe phenomenon either, this is like "video game analytics". Google "whales video games" or something.

Whales fork over the most dough, that's why you see Prime stuff selling at 130 bucks, because people pay it

I know perfectly well what whales are. It's quite possibly the most predatory and unethical practice in the video game industry, and it has absolutely no place in a supposedly shinning example of how free-to-play games should be, which is how the community often describes Warframe. 

 

4 minutes ago, (XB1)SickWicked said:

There was a company here in the states that did something like this, if not exactly this and they lost tons of money that they reverted the pricing and brought back coupons.  The company constantly had coupons going out to their customers at different times every month or every other month.  They figured just selling at the lower price the customer would pay with the coupons would bring in more customers and/or have people buying more stuff... it did the reverse.  People only went there to spend money because they felt that they were getting a deal.

Links:

  Hide contents

 

http://business.time.com/2012/05/17/why-jcpenneys-no-more-coupons-experiment-is-failing/

https://consumerist.com/2013/01/28/that-didnt-last-long-jcpenney-brings-back-sales/index.html

 

I know your not suggesting getting rid of coupons... but that would be a logical thing to do if it was always sold at the 75% discounted rate price point.  but if the coupons where left intact...  what is it to stop people from just waiting to get 75% off coupon at the new lowered cost... which is what people would do anyways. Because of the feeling of getting the best bang for their money. 

TL:DR  It most likely will not increase any kind of sales...  people buying on discounts are only buying because it's discounted and they feel they are getting a great deal and maximizing the money spent regardless of what the starting price point is.

 

 

Nowhere in that article was there any evidence that the reason why they had that net loss was directly linked with their change in policy.The figure that it is given on that article is the total loss in sales for the entire year including the side effects that this change in policy could have. There are also many variable to take into account for that case, for example, did they use marketing tools to attract new costumers that might have liked that change? Were their prices competitive? Did they have exclusive products only available at their brand? The author of the article is also a journalist, not an economist, so he is in no position to make an analysis himself. Lastly, the article doesn't give a reason as to why this change has been made to begin with. Companies aren't too keen on taking unnecessary risks unless there is a reason to do so, so I'll have to assume that there was already an issue with their sales.

On the contrary, DE is a company that does take a lot of risks and has benefited from that behavior, hence why i even bothered expressing my opinion on this matter to begin with.

Bottom line, I think it would be better to compare a video game to another video game, if a comparison must be made.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Darkuhn said:

Also your Idea would heavily devalue Prime Access and Prime Vault Packages because their Plat would have a much higher Price.

And PA is DEs main source of income.

I might be wrong here but im pretty sure people would still buy prime access if it wouldnt have any plat in it because the main reason to buy prime access is to get the gear in it and not the plat what comes with it.

I mean if the maim reason for getting prime access would be to get "discount" plat that would also mean that no one buys accessory packs as those dont have plat.