How "I think" conclave should be fixed

[Hyperblast]

So right now Warframe is a very good PvE game with PvP in it but because this game is so focused on PvE, conclave is the lost and forgotten mode that DE will probably never fix.  Currently the conclave is plagued by bunny hoppers and OP weapons that make newer players stay away from this mod like their going to get aids just by going in for the first time.  Here is what "I think" would fix the conclave.

Practice Mode: Currently there is no way for new players to test out the conclave without being forced into another game with another player aside from lunaro.  With this change players will be able to learn the maps that are available to them so there will be little to no confusion and play against AI to understand how their weapons & abilities work when they feel they are ready to play against players.

Weapon selection Normal and Restricted mode: In normal mode, players will be able to bring in their weapons just like they currently can but in restricted mode, no one is allowed to bring any of their weapons and the only weapons available are the MK-1 weapons that the player can choose at the very beginning of the game and create load outs based on the select few weapons available.  Weapons skins, along with mods, can still be obtained from teshin for their PvE and/or PvP weapons.  Players will not need to purchase said weapons off of the MP, they will all be available to use in the conclave and can be modded at anytime but ONLY for the conclave unless purchased for use outside of the conclave like normal.  A warning will appear for newer players under MR5 that if they attempt to enter normal mode, they may go up against another player using a far stronger weapon then they currently have in their arsenal and will be unable to obtain for some time until their MR is higher.

Movement Normal & Restricted mode: Movement 1.0, the green stamina bar, will ONLY be available in the Restricted conclave, with some changes, and not in the main game.  Bullet jumping, rolling and sprinting will drain the stamina bar, once you run out of stamina, you can no longer perform any movement abilities until it has charged up to a minimum of 10%, the recharge speed is 3.5 stamina per second while moving and 8 stamina per second while standing still and the recharge delay is 1.5secs, bullet jumping will consume 35 stamina, rolling consumes 20 stamina unless combo'd with bullet jump within a 1.5sec time interval at the end of a bullet jump then its 15 stamina, jumping will consume 5, 0 if after a bullet jump, and sprinting consumes .75 stamina per second, sliding, wall climbing and falling does not consume stamina but cannot restore stamina during said action.  Mods that currently give you bonus mobility will be changed to increase stamina regeneration to prevent veteran players from going from 1 side of the map to the other within 5secs.  With this change new players will still be able to have time to learn the more advanced movement system while not having to be forced to go up against an arena master.

Warframe abilities and passives Normal and Restricted mode: Back in the day we used to be able to choose what abilities we wanted on our warframes.  In the Restricted conclave, we should be limited to 2 abilties of the players choosing whether it being 2 abilities or 1 ability & 1 passive.

The loading screen: This should be prevented until a minimum of 2 players are paired up and then the match can be loaded normally.  Its a waste of time to check to see if anyone is currently playing in the conclave and be forced to watch your ship fly through space and back because no one is inside the mode you choose and you don't want to wait until someone shows up.

More Modes: free4all, TDM, CTF and Lunaro are all great modes, but more is needed such as, "king of the hill", domination & free4all & TDM oddball.

King of the hill: 4v4 & 8ffa, Acts just like any other game that's introduced a king of the hill game mode, stays in 1 place for 1min and then moves to a new location.  The player/team with the highest score wins.

Domination: 5v5, 3 points on the arena are in a neutral state, players must capture these area's and defend them against the enemy team, the team with the highest score wins.

Oddball: 8 f4a or 4v4, The lunaro ball is placed in a random location that is revealed to all players after 10secs have passed.  When a player grabs the ball, said player is unable to use any of their weapons or abilities except for using the ball as a melee weapon.  Their mobility cost is reduced by 20% but the player is revealed on screen and mini-map and shield recharge is disabled but gives +3 hps.  After the ball has been held for more than 30secs, the ball explodes in the players hands and will teleport to another random location on the map and be revealed to everyone after another 10secs have passed.  The player/team who holds the ball the longest wins.

Kill-streaks: Currently there isn't anything useful for getting a kill-streak aside from affinity so if you get a 3KS, you receive 15% more conclave rep but take 5% more dmg, 5KS gives 20% more rep & 10% more dmg taken, 10KS gives 45% rep & 20% more dmg taken, & 20+KS gives 115% more rep & 40% more dmg taken.  Committing suicide does not stop the kill-streak until you have been killed by another player or have received any type of dmg within the last 4secs of receiving dmg.

 

With all of these changes, I think the conclave will be a much better mode that was designed for a fun side game outside of the constant grind for new and veteran players with the restricted mode catering to newer players or players seeking a slowed down & controlled version of conclave and the current normal version for veteran bunny hoppers & arena masters.

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Hyperblast
Spelling errors, clarified some missing details

[Wevi]

20 minutes ago, Hyperblast said:

Movement Normal & Restricted mode: Movement 1.0, the green stamina bar, will ONLY be available in the conclave, with some changes, and not in the main game.  Bullet jumping, rolling and sprinting will drain the stamina bar, once you run out of stamina, you can no longer perform any movement abilities until it has charged up to a minimum of 10%, the recharge speed is 3.5 stamina per second while moving and 8 stamina per second while standing still and the recharge delay is 1.5secs, bullet jumping will consume 35 stamina, rolling consumes 20 stamina unless combo'd with bullet jump within a 1.5sec time interval at the end of a bullet jump then its 15 stamina, jumping will consume 5, 0 if after a bullet jump, and sprinting consumes .75 stamina per second, sliding, wall climbing and falling does not consume stamina but cannot restore stamina during said action.  Mods that currently give you bonus mobility will be changed to increase stamina regeneration to prevent veteran players from going from 1 side of the map to the other within 5secs.  With this change new players will still be able to have time to learn the more advanced movement while not having to be forced to go up against an arena master.  Only available in Restricted mode.

remove bullet jumping entirely or have it cost energy

[Hyperblast]

2 minutes ago, Wevi said:

remove bullet jumping entirely or have it cost energy

That's kinda to restrictive but the community would have to decide on that 1...idc whichever 1 really 😛

[ant99999]

(If anyone wondering like 'why does this strange dude keep answering in Conclave forums like 10 times in a row?' know, that I just have nothing to do and bored af)

So, the answer.

1 час назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Currently the conclave is plagued by bunny hoppers

It is called mobility focused gameplay, and is not a problem, but a feature of an arena shooter which the Conclave is.

1 час назад, Hyperblast сказал:

OP weapons that make newer players stay away from this mod like their going to get aids just by going in for the first time.

Can you name a sertain weapon(s) you have issues with because since I started playing Conclave back in 2015 I had only one: it was Latron Prime and it was nerfed since then. Now as I can see everything is pretty balanced.

 

1 час назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Practice Mode: Currently there is no way for new players to test out the conclave without being forced into another game with another player aside from lunaro.  With this change players will be able to learn the maps that are available to them so there will be little to no confusion and play against AI to understand how their weapons & abilities work when they feel they are ready to play against players.

This a very good idea. And quite obvious, isn't it. Why wasn't it implemenred then. Well, because AI that we have in Warframe is like really bad. Almost like there is no such a thing as AI. Have you ever wondered why grineer soldiers just go straight to the nearest obstacle to take cover or even just stop right there and start shooting at you? It's because they can't do anything else (well they can also charge at you like a drunk spacemarine but this is a chargers' script). No evasion tactics, no squad coordination, no situation awareness, they can barely move without being stuck (well, most of the time they are just killed sooner). And we all know how much of an idiot-fest are bots like syndicate operatives who are able to bullet jump. DE needed literally a couple of weeks to fix Umbra AI. So let's just accept that we can't have good AI in this game. But a training course featuring Teshin is still a good idea.

 

1 час назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Weapon selection Normal and Restricted mode: In normal mode, players will be able to bring in their weapons just like they currently can but in restricted mode, no one is allowed to bring any of their weapons and the only weapons available are the MK-1 weapons that the player can choose at the very beginning of the game and create load outs based on the select few weapons available.  Weapons skins, along with mods, can still be obtained from teshin for their PvE and/or PvP weapons.  Players will not need to purchase said weapons off of the MP, they will all be available to use in the conclave and can be modded at anytime but ONLY for the conclave unless purchased for use outside of the conclave like normal.  A warning will appear for newer players under MR5 that if they attempt to enter normal mode, they may go up against another player using a far stronger weapon then they currently have in their arsenal and will be unable to obtain for some time until their MR is higher.

Well, this would be a nice little mutator if we had a more adequate player count in Conclave. And by the way I think I need to clarify that not only are Mk-1 weapons not worse than regular ones, they are actually often considered too strong in comparison to regular counterparts.

 

1 час назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Movement Normal & Restricted mode: Movement 1.0, the green stamina bar, will ONLY be available in the conclave, with some changes, and not in the main game.  Bullet jumping, rolling and sprinting will drain the stamina bar, once you run out of stamina, you can no longer perform any movement abilities until it has charged up to a minimum of 10%, the recharge speed is 3.5 stamina per second while moving and 8 stamina per second while standing still and the recharge delay is 1.5secs, bullet jumping will consume 35 stamina, rolling consumes 20 stamina unless combo'd with bullet jump within a 1.5sec time interval at the end of a bullet jump then its 15 stamina, jumping will consume 5, 0 if after a bullet jump, and sprinting consumes .75 stamina per second, sliding, wall climbing and falling does not consume stamina but cannot restore stamina during said action.  Mods that currently give you bonus mobility will be changed to increase stamina regeneration to prevent veteran players from going from 1 side of the map to the other within 5secs.  With this change new players will still be able to have time to learn the more advanced movement while not having to be forced to go up against an arena master.  Only available in Restricted mode.

Stamina bar and everything you described here will make the gameplay too slow, over-complicated, more clunky and less fluid. It would be just inconvenient to play (guess why the stamina was removed in the first place). If it was introduced as a mutator, it would be insta-dead, and if as a change to regular conclave, well, this would be an overkill more massive than Battlefront 2's lootboxes. So, not recommend this.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Warframe abilities and passives Normal and Restricted mode: Back in the day we used to be able to choose what abilities we wanted on our warframes.  In the conclave, we should be limited to 2 abilties of the players choosing whether it being 2 abilities or 1 ability & 1 passive. Only available in restricted mode.

An interseting idea for a mutator, I'll play that.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

The loading screen: This should be prevented until a minimum of 2 players are paired up and then the match can be loaded normally.  Its a waste of time to check to see if anyone is currently playing in the conclave and be forced to watch your ship fly through space and back because no one is inside the mode you choose and you don't want to wait until someone shows up.

One hundred percent for this. Do this ASAP.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

More Modes: free4all, TDM, CTF and Lunaro are all great modes, but more is needed such as, "king of the hill", domination & free4all & TDM oddball.

More modes is good when you have enough players for them. If the Conclave somehow manages to increase it's player count, then it's totally worth adding. If it is added in the current Conclave, it will just split its tiny playerbase making it even more of a challenge to find a lobby.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

King of the hill: 4v4, Acts just like any other game that's introduced a king of the hill game mode, stays in 1 place for 1min and then moves to a new location.  The team with the highest score wins.

Great one and btw can be added also in ffa mode.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Free4all & TDM oddball: 8 f4a or 4v4, The lunaro ball is placed in a random location that is revealed to all the players after 10secs have passed.  When a player grabs the ball, said player is unable to use any of their weapons or abilities except for using the ball as a melee weapon.  Their mobility cost is reduced by 20% but the player is revealed on screen and mini-map and shield recharge is disabled but gives +3 hps.  After the ball has been held for more than 30secs, the ball explodes in the players hands and will teleport to another random location on the map and be revealed to everyone after another 10secs have passed.  The player/team with the highest score wins.

That is a great idea except I didn't understand how one would score a point in this. Reminds me of Bombing Run mode from Unreal Tournament 2004.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Kill-streaks: Currently there isn't anything useful for getting a kill-streak aside from affinity so if you get a 3KS, you receive 15% more conclave rep but take 5% more dmg, 5KS gives 20% more rep & 10% more dmg taken, 10KS gives 45% rep & 20% more dmg taken, & 20+KS gives 115% more rep & 40% more dmg taken.  Committing suicide does not stop the kill-streak until you have been killed by another player.

Good but only as a mutator for public matches. The only questionable part is about suicide. Why is it like that? Shouldn't a player be punnished for killing himself? And also this openes up some cheesy strategies like killing yourself before being killed by an enemy to keep killstreak.

 

2 часа назад, Hyperblast сказал:

With all of these changes, I think the conclave will be a much better mode that was designed for a fun side game outside of the constant grind for new and veteran players with the restricted mode catering to newer players or players seeking a slowed down & controlled version of conclave and the current normal version for veteran bunny hoppers & arena masters.

Yeah, being a good mode for having fun is great, but will we ever see a competitive part in it? I hope so.

[Hyperblast]

4 hours ago, Dazle said:

I would take this post seriously but after you called the veldt 'op', I just can't. 

I dont think i named a single weapon in that entire post.

3 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Can you name a sertain weapon(s) you have issues with because since I started playing Conclave back in 2015 I had only one: it was Latron Prime and it was nerfed since then. Now as I can see everything is pretty balanced.

The only 2 weapons i have a real problem with is the sybaris prime & Daikyu...im so tired of playing against someone using that stupid bow, doesnt matter what range im at or what frame im using i get 1 shotted by it, the only frame i havent been 1 shotted by this bow was when i was using frost prime but it brought my health all the way down to 11 health in a single hit.  The sybaris also gets on my nerves, before I can even blink all of my health is removed within 2-3 pulls of the trigger, doesnt matter how mobile you are, getting hit by this thing is very annoying.

3 hours ago, ant99999 said:

That is a great idea except I didn't understand how one would score a point in this. Reminds me of Bombing Run mode from Unreal Tournament 2004.

You just hold the ball to score points, the longer you hold it, the more points you get.  I got this idea from the days I used to play halo.

3 hours ago, ant99999 said:

Good but only as a mutator for public matches. The only questionable part is about suicide. Why is it like that? Shouldn't a player be punnished for killing himself? And also this openes up some cheesy strategies like killing yourself before being killed by an enemy to keep killstreak.

I'm sorry i should have clarified this before making the post...i made this at 3-4am in the morning so once i got towards the bottom my brain started to slow down.  But yes i should have said the KS is removed if you have taken dmg within the last 4 seconds from an enemy player if you jump off the cliff.

3 hours ago, ant99999 said:

(If anyone wondering like 'why does this strange dude keep answering in Conclave forums like 10 times in a row?' know, that I just have nothing to do and bored af)

Ya your everywhere lol! XD

Edited August 8, 2018 by Hyperblast

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

For me, what they need to do is get dedicated servers for it so I can actually play without disconnecting every other game.

[Hyperblast]

Just now, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

For me, what they need to do is get dedicated servers for it so I can actually play without disconnecting every other game.

THIS!!! 100% THIS!!! Im so tired of this crap!!!

[Stormdragon]

1 hour ago, Hyperblast said:

THIS!!! 100% THIS!!! Im so tired of this crap!!!

I'd argue for a server browser instead, PC players already have access to community hosted servers (I'm not sure of what would DE do in lrder to give servers to console players), leaving us with some amazing servers but also with others that seem to be hosted in toasters. Having dedicated servers with no way to find where are the matches going on, allow us to choose which one of those to join or the ability to avoid those we dislike cuts some of the benefits of having servers. 

[Hyperblast]

8 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

I'd argue for a server browser instead, PC players already have access to community hosted servers (I'm not sure of what would DE do in lrder to give servers to console players), leaving us with some amazing servers but also with others that seem to be hosted in toasters. Having dedicated servers with no way to find where are the matches going on, allow us to choose which one of those to join or the ability to avoid those we dislike cuts some of the benefits of having servers. 

Oh ya that actually would be more cost efficient for DE than having dedicated servers although we may still have the "host migration" problem that no one likes. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

8 hours ago, Hyperblast said:

Practice Mode: Currently there is no way for new players to test out the conclave without being forced into another game with another player aside from lunaro.  With this change players will be able to learn the maps that are available to them so there will be little to no confusion and play against AI to understand how their weapons & abilities work when they feel they are ready to play against players.

Currently this info is only made available through a loading screen tip, which you may or may not come across, but setting your matchmaing to solo would basically give you Practice mode. It does need to be made more well known, ya.

Oh and obviously it has no AI, just a way to learn maps and melee combos but that's still useful.

Edited August 8, 2018 by AlphaPHENIX

[ant99999]

So, now this is some really constructive Conclave discussion. A rare thing in our PvE-focused community.

5 часов назад, Hyperblast сказал:

Daikyu

So, unfortunately I have almost no experience with this bow, however from using it I've learned that it is pretty damn hard to hit with and from some montages I've learned that killing with it looks epic af. So I can conclude Daikyu being a rather high risk - high reward type of thing, and these are always getting on players nerves should it be handled by a really experienced opponent. It is like Warframe's Railgun or something of this kind. Not risking to suggesting nerfing though.

 

5 часов назад, Hyperblast сказал:

sybaris prime

Never faced but used myself. Hared it, too hard for me, better use Corinth. So can say nothing.

 

5 часов назад, Hyperblast сказал:

You just hold the ball to score points, the longer you hold it, the more points you get.  I got this idea from the days I used to play halo.

Oh, I get this now. So, this is a mobile-king-of-the-hill kind of a gametype. Interesting. I mean, I'd play that.

 

6 часов назад, Hyperblast сказал:

But yes i should have said the KS is removed if you have taken dmg within the last 4 seconds from an enemy player if you jump off the cliff.

Still not sure why suicide must be so special. But this way it seems more ok. I assume it just needs testing.

[Hyperblast]

50 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Never faced but used myself. Hared it, too hard for me, better use Corinth. So can say nothing.

ya i just finished cooking this puppy in the oven, cant wait to start using it, looks very strong and very fun to use for a pump-action shotgun 🙂

[Highhats]

i thought i've mastered parkour 2.0 until i started getting into conclave , i also thought my aim was good enough and oooh i was so wrong , and i  guess that's the reason why the conclave sigils called that way . the mobility in warframe is what makes it special and taking that away would turn it into a regular third person shooter . conclave players have taken parkour 2.0 to the next level showing us what is possible once you master the game mechanics . I mostly play PVE but i consider conclave to be "end game" just because it has the highest skill curve and the most difficult grind out of all the game modes , at least for me. 

i really hope DE adds more conclave exclusive rewards

with that said . check these guys out 

 

[Hyperblast]

56 minutes ago, Dazle said:

Not in the post, but in the match you were in right before you made this post, where you were so sure that my gun (veldt) was 3 shotting you, despite it being 5 bullets.

i didn't come here to complain about your weapon, i made this post to address issues that are plaguing the conclave...nice to see you immediately jump on the forums and search up peoples names and wait to see if they complain or not...idc tho, these issues need to be fixed for new players and veteran players who don't want to be mentally taxed on trying to take down a single player for the next 3mins due to the high mobility that warframe is...conclave needs to have both normal and restricted mobility game modes to cater to both audiences.  Normal for players who are mentally able to aim at something moving at the speed of sound and jerk in any direction while airborne while restricted movement allows for a more controlled environment, you are still able to do the high mobility but you cannot do it forever.

 

54 minutes ago, seantagonist said:

i thought i've mastered parkour 2.0 until i started getting into conclave , i also thought my aim was good enough and oooh i was so wrong , and i  guess that's the reason why the conclave sigils called that way . the mobility in warframe is what makes it special and taking that away would turn it into a regular third person shooter . conclave players have taken parkour 2.0 to the next level showing us what is possible once you master the game mechanics . I mostly play PVE but i consider conclave to be "end game" just because it has the highest skill curve and the most difficult grind out of all the game modes , at least for me.

Yes all 3 of those vids is why i think normal and restricted modes needs to be in place for conclave...if you have the time of day to be chasing after someone at that speed then you should be playing against others of a similiar skill level, not put up against others who do not have the time of day to learn that level of wall kicking and 180 degree multi-turns and still get a headshot kill across the map.

[Hyperblast]

4 minutes ago, Dazle said:

I know you didn't come here to complain about my weapons lol, thats not my point, the point is, if you actually thought that weapon was somewhat op, then that tells me you have no experience in conclave, hence why would I or anyone here want to take your considerations on 'balance' when you've merely played it?

1st off, If I have no experience in conclave then how did i reach T3 in it?  2nd, people would considerate it if they wanted to play against players of a similar skill level under a set of rules that prevents arena masters and insane bunny hoppers with high mobility, that is warframe, completely dominating everyone before they can even blink.  Those 3 video's showing a player jumping from 1 side of the map all the way to the other within 3 secs is a clear indication that there needs to be a mode that restricts this level of mobility down to a more manageable level because not everyone has god tier aim or mobility.  Every time i join a match and its a 1v1 and the player is already in my spawn location before i can even move, i immediately leave.  Its not that I do not have the skill level to do so but because I do not have the patients to be spending the next several mins bunny hopping and flying all over the course to get 1 kill so with restricted modes, players can actually play the game for fun instead of getting a headache trying to fight against someone flying everywhere.  I dont count PvP in dojo's because you can use your PvE mods and you might as well slam the ground with your atterax or orthos prime with primed reach and a riven with range to kill them.

So yes I do know what i'm talking about when it comes to games that include PvP in them.

[Highhats]

17 minutes ago, Hyperblast said:

Yes all 3 of those vids is why i think normal and restricted modes needs to be in place for conclave...if you have the time of day to be chasing after someone at that speed then you should be playing against others of a similiar skill level, not put up against others who do not have the time of day to learn that level of wall kicking and 180 degree multi-turns and still get a headshot kill across the map.

i guess a pvp mode where everyone is equipped with a hobbled dragon key would be interesting and i agree that matchmaking in conclave is just awful, getting matched up with  advanced player sucks, but that just might because nobody from lower skill brackets play it and they just end matching anyone who's playing together, i could be wrong about that though.

the only way to have an actual "practice mode" is to play it with friends.  at the end of the day it is a space ninja game , if you can't move like one then you're probably better off playing PUBG or something .   

[Hyperblast]

6 minutes ago, Dazle said:

Always fun when players think their 'rank' matters regarding skill or in this case, experience. I've played conclave on and off for 2+ years, whilst I do agree with the requirement of a matchmaking system, your other points just seems like you want the gamemode to be easier for you. 

Im done trying to explain myself to you nor do i have the patients to argue, you are just 1 player out of many, i cannot appeal to everyone.