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Let's have a chat..... about Chat!


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hace 3 minutos, (XB1)watsonAJA dijo:

Your right, not being able to do the main objective of literally most warframe players (FashionFrame) is super fun and exciting. It’s good for “the soul”. Because we play video games to cleanse our mind and learn the value of real life, not get away from it.

Amen my dude, you are about to ascend

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On 2018-08-23 at 1:28 PM, (XB1)watsonAJA said:

Because everybody that plays warframe is 20 million years old and their brains are fully developed to the point where they know not to say things that region chat tell you to say. There’s no such things as younger people with less developed brains that don’t understand what internet slang is and aren’t speaking to anyone SPECIFICALLY. Nope, none at all. And I’m not attacking anybody, I just mean. Why don’t they just censor words like that so nobody sees them instead of not letting them speak at all? It makes cases where offensive things are accidentally said not too bad and people intentionally trying to be a jerk can’t say the bad offensive thing? It just makes too much sense!

Simply censoring the word doesn't help for 2 reasons.  1.  The word could be used in a different context that is non-offensive.  2.  When it is used offensively, the context can often be inferred and the effect is the same as simply saying it.  It's simply not a viable solution to the issue of slurs in chat.

Also, people, regardless of age, are responsible for what they put into chat.  I get that some people are still developing, but that can't be an excuse for allowing slurs in chat that harm other people.  When one shows they are not ready for the responsibility of having chat privileges, then they are removed from chat.  It's that simple.

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I understand how people can defend slurs against minorities, it's easy when you and your close ones dont belong to the minority. It just shows you have some empathy to be learned yet. I know because I was like you at one time, and I was so sure I was right, like the most of us I guess. Not anymore though.

Its not okay to insult minorities because they have struggled and suffered for their cause and still do in too many places. You should get away from all that when you play video games, instead of having to feel bad about it by facing it here too.

Its not even that much to ask, you can still say whatever you want in your clan's discord server unless they have similiar rules, like we do in my clan because Im the leader. I get it people come from places like Russia where it's officially ok to hate minorities and show it, but you have different rules here. And I really doubt everyone being on the other side of this issue is from those countries.

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21 hours ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

This thread was starting to die a natural death.. and it actually (astonishingly) ended on a good note...

why am I not surprised you brought it back..

Why do you have such a problem with me?  What is so wrong about me defending the removal of slurs from chat?

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12 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Why do you have such a problem with me?  What is so wrong about me defending the removal of slurs from chat?

It's not just strictly about chat itself but you have a very "zero tolerance" extremist point of view when it comes to subjects like speech and humor in general, and people who challenge your views become heinous individuals because things like context and intent are "no excuse". When these topics are brought up you equate "words" with "violence" and your responses have been so very black and white, either-or, this or that, etc.. that it prevents any further discussion.

 

 

But for all I know, you could just simply be a troll that doesn't actually believe a word you're posting.. honestly, I don't know what's more preferable. The more I type this and think about it, the more I realize how much energy i'm wasting on this. You are you, i'm me, and I can't help but think about an old meme about "arguing on the internet"... 

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12 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Why do you have such a problem with me?  What is so wrong about me defending the removal of slurs from chat?

 

11 minutes ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

It's not just strictly about chat itself but you have a very "zero tolerance" extremist point of view when it comes to subjects like speech and humor in general, and people who challenge your views become heinous individuals because things like context and intent are "no excuse". When these topics are brought up you equate "words" with "violence" and your responses have been so very black and white, either-or, this or that, etc.. that it prevents any further discussion.

 

 

But for all I know, you could just simply be a troll that doesn't actually believe a word you're posting.. honestly, I don't know what's more preferable. The more I type this and think about it, the more I realize how much energy i'm wasting on this. You are you, i'm me, and I can't help but think about an old meme about "arguing on the internet"... 

Okay, but one of you need to change your glyph, because right now it looks like one guy arguing with himself on the internet.

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10 hours ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

It's not just strictly about chat itself but you have a very "zero tolerance" extremist point of view when it comes to subjects like speech and humor in general, and people who challenge your views become heinous individuals because things like context and intent are "no excuse".

So, which slurs should we tolerate?  Which slurs are humorous?  Is it funny to call someone a name that is meant to dehumanize them?

10 hours ago, (PS4)the-creeperman said:

When these topics are brought up you equate "words" with "violence" and your responses have been so very black and white, either-or, this or that, etc.. that it prevents any further discussion.

Because words lead to violence and people are hurt by words.  I'm glad that you can be so cavalier about violence perpetrated against people, but I can't.

The bottom line is this.  I'm arguing against the use of slurs in the chat.  I'm arguing to keep the chat clean of references made to demean, degrade, and dehumanize other people.  You, on the other hand, seem to be arguing against me and making it personal - I figure it's because you have no other argument to make, so you've decided to use ad hominem and personal attacks.  Bravo.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

So, which slurs should we tolerate?  Which slurs are humorous?  Is it funny to call someone a name that is meant to dehumanize them?

Because words lead to violence and people are hurt by words.  I'm glad that you can be so cavalier about violence perpetrated against people, but I can't.

The bottom line is this.  I'm arguing against the use of slurs in the chat.  I'm arguing to keep the chat clean of references made to demean, degrade, and dehumanize other people.  You, on the other hand, seem to be arguing against me and making it personal - I figure it's because you have no other argument to make, so you've decided to use ad hominem and personal attacks.  Bravo.

Yeah yeah, shame on me, I know.. i'm working on it. Good luck with your issues too, btw.

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But when you ban someone from chat, the other people in chat don’t see the word anyways! It’s censoring words like I wanted that to happen because nobody should bully people, but it just adds the extra step of banning them from chat! Censoring it won’t cause problems. They already censor words. But the problem is banning them even if it was a mistake! I understand that people are responsible for their actions most of the time, but there are always exceptions

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On 2018-08-27 at 6:27 AM, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Simply censoring the word doesn't help for 2 reasons.  1.  The word could be used in a different context that is non-offensive.  2.  When it is used offensively, the context can often be inferred and the effect is the same as simply saying it.  It's simply not a viable solution to the issue of slurs in chat.

Also, people, regardless of age, are responsible for what they put into chat.  I get that some people are still developing, but that can't be an excuse for allowing slurs in chat that harm other people.  When one shows they are not ready for the responsibility of having chat privileges, then they are removed from chat.  It's that simple.

 

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My thing is, words are not created equally on levels of offensive out of the box, but you can use words correctly to make a simple word FAR more impolite then a curse word, or a racial slur, having words that get you in trouble is stupid system, because it does not fix any issues with toxicity, it just limits the fun you can have with other people, look at rainbow 6 siege, when they  banned the N word and the variants, it didn't improve how people treated each other, all it did was have people try to bait the other team into saying it, and hurt people who were using the word in a jovial manner. 

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31 minutes ago, DeathsDayOff said:

My thing is, words are not created equally on levels of offensive out of the box, but you can use words correctly to make a simple word FAR more impolite then a curse word, or a racial slur, having words that get you in trouble is stupid system, because it does not fix any issues with toxicity, it just limits the fun you can have with other people, look at rainbow 6 siege, when they  banned the N word and the variants, it didn't improve how people treated each other, all it did was have people try to bait the other team into saying it, and hurt people who were using the word in a jovial manner. 

Almost every multiplayer game there is has banned the N word, though. Including Warframe's region chat, where it'll net you a 7 days instaban.

I don't know. Of course you can still offend people without using the N word. But I don't exactly miss it in chat either.

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On 2018-09-02 at 10:41 AM, (XB1)watsonAJA said:

But when you ban someone from chat, the other people in chat don’t see the word anyways! It’s censoring words like I wanted that to happen because nobody should bully people, but it just adds the extra step of banning them from chat! Censoring it won’t cause problems. They already censor words. But the problem is banning them even if it was a mistake! I understand that people are responsible for their actions most of the time, but there are always exceptions

I'm not seeing the problem with the "extra step" that is taken with a ban.  When people show they can't use chat responsibly, DE revokes their chat privileges.  Chatting is a privilege, not a right.

On 2018-09-02 at 5:35 PM, DeathsDayOff said:

My thing is, words are not created equally on levels of offensive out of the box, but you can use words correctly to make a simple word FAR more impolite then a curse word, or a racial slur, having words that get you in trouble is stupid system, because it does not fix any issues with toxicity, it just limits the fun you can have with other people, look at rainbow 6 siege, when they  banned the N word and the variants, it didn't improve how people treated each other, all it did was have people try to bait the other team into saying it, and hurt people who were using the word in a jovial manner.

So, there are many types of illness, of which flu is one.  People get flu shots in order to stave off the flu.  They could, however, still get a different strain of flu or another illness entirely.  So, does that mean the flu shot is useless or that people should forgo it?  That's pretty much your argument here.  Because the tool is not 100% effective - we should remove it?  That makes no sense.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I'm not seeing the problem with the "extra step" that is taken with a ban.  When people show they can't use chat responsibly, DE revokes their chat privileges.  Chatting is a privilege, not a right.

Alas the internet is unable to figure out what is a right and a privilege.

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