Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Dragonofdarkness13]

Not sure If im just missing something. 

 

But the description says that if the target is Poisoned, Miasma does an extra 100% damage. (thats double damage for the number crunchers out there)

It also says if they're viralled, there's another 100% damage added (we're upto TRIPLE damage now)

 

So if Ive got toxic lash going, I spore someone.. then run in and hit them in melee... the toxic lash hits em with poison, bursts the spores, now everyone around is poisoned, AND viralled (which cuts HP in half, of course) and now susceptible to TRIPLE damage miasma, of which the base damage was supposed to have been buffed.

 

If that's the case, Saryn should be wrecking faces. From the testing I've done, that doesn't seem to be working out. Am I doing it wrong? I'm seeing a lot of negative feedback on this forum. 

 

Should be interesting for PrimeTime tonight - Reb/Meg will in all likelyhood be messing around with the Saryn rework. That's gonna be akward if they're running around NOT killing things. Unless they're playing on low level worlds.

 

I'll continue to test in the Simulacrum and try to figure this out.

The problem mainly sits on Spore is a single target attack, toxic lash is a single target (for most weapons) attack and miasma is an AOE attack. the Spores don't spread well enough and unless you are using a gas elemented weapon you can't spread toxic well enough to get that 200% extra damage ... And I don't think her passive is working to make the procs duration last longer as I've seen the targets shake off both procs before I could infect a group. The only way I've found to do this effectively is to Molt , coat it with spores and use miasma ( the molt seems to be auto dying when you cast miasma instead of absorbing the miasma like we were told it would function ) The molt well explode infecting a group with toxic and spread the spores , the spores well proc the viral and then the cast animation for miasma finishes and it does the extra damage ... BUT to do this is a lot of energy with duration build .. you can do it on a negative duration build but you have to have good timing .. and you HAVE TO HAVE RANGE MODS period as miasma and the molt's range are to small now to clear a room.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Next Steps:

The first round of tweaks are coming to Saryn in the next hotfix pending testing. 

1) Instead of just disappearing on enemy death, Saryn’s Spores will now detonate at a reduced spread distance if the target dies. You may have found yourself in the scenario where you Spore'd an enemy, didn't pop the spores, killed said enemy, only to see his Spores die with him instead of infecting nearby enemies.

2) Toxic Lash can now proc multiple times.

As always - things are subject to change. Keep an eye out for 17.10.1 in which the first round of tweaks will appear.

[CelticMoss]

Yeah posted on her video

nice video showing me two years ago

she was fighting flesh the easiest mob to kill

No test on high level corrupted gunners

 

I always go to shy's videos for funny videos not real info on how stuff works.

Edited November 5, 2015 by SarahApple

[Thelonious]

That's about 20% less  than the old negative duration Miasma's 6840 at 152% power strength

 

If you had only 152% power strength with the old negative duration build, then it was a bad build.

You could get 224% power strength with max range (235% power range), and even more strength if you decided to forgo overextended, for single ticks well over 10k damage.

 

Not implying that Miasma is now better or worse than before, but if you want to compare numbers, at least do it right.

[08DeCiBeL80]

DE some issues / bugs,

 

Contagion clouds augment seems to have visuals that only last for ~12 Sec. Then Disapear and last longer then 20 min!!! with only 27,5% increased duration (Transient and Primed Continuity) very weird to see enemies get hurt without visuals, it seems also that your own Toxic clouds can Damage you when under attack by Toxic ancients and healers. Toxic Clouds have same Visuals as the enemies Toxic Clouds so it is very hard to understand and localize which clouds are yours (no energy colour) also it seems only 50% of the enemies get double damage bonus multiplier when affeted by Toxic Lash and not all / some enemies affected by Contagion augment / Toxic clouds get the damage multiplier too (Don't know if this was intended, further it is understandable that Toxic ancients receives no damage on their HP / Shields from the Toxic Clouds

 

Armour buff is weak compared with nerf on health (we are never able to increase range, duration, health, effeciency, strength at great sizes with Steelfiber Rage Vitality and Regenerative Moult because this already cost 4 mod slots, great sizes are no debuff on range or increased range with a minimum of 85% strength and more then 100% duration which pays hard to have no or less defense)

 

my build is: Corrosive Projection / Primed Flow / Vitality / Primed Continuity / Stretch / Streamline / Contagion Cloud and Regenerative Moult Augments Rank 10 Rush on Exilius slot

 

she looks great she still rocks only more over time

additional: Molt could get a range upgrade or could be affected by range (toxic blast damage)

and power costs of spores could be lowerd with ~5 energy (at max rank)

[Xarteros]

I think a lot of people are overreacting a bit. This won't take too much to fix, and DE has slapped on some pretty quick fixes in the past.

Base changes: Saryn needs more base damage & base range so that the mods sacrificed to power efficiency/duration aren't as much as a loss, so just a basic stat change (Notably damage bonus increase to Toxic Lash). Personally, I think they should completely revert the armour/health situation. I'd much rather be a health tank than a meagre armour tank.

Ability wise; 

Spore needs soft-targeting, and to detonate on enemy death automatically with a chance to spread to nearby enemies. Spores that are popped by shooting or with Toxic Lash need to have 100% chance to spread, with extra range to reward skilled attackers (like 50% more spread range). All spores popped by weapons or Toxic Lash should also drop health orbs, making Saryn more of a team player and also a bit more self sufficient (also negates the risk of closing in melee and helps reduce the impact of the health reduction).

~This means you can cast spore on a few enemies around the room quickly, and just focus on killing if you like. Once you get the ball rolling, the only time your 'plague' will die off is when there aren't enough enemies to sustain the infection, which also prevents it from being OP (since there are plenty of natural lulls in enemies on any mission)

Toxic Lash should affect nearby allies like War Cry, and be re-castable so you can add another ally by re-casting at any point. This helps Saryn be even more of a team player, by not only boosting overall team damage, but helping the team to spread more toxin procs around and pop spores, so Saryn can use the team to boost her Miasma damage

Miasma can be fixed almost entirely by making it leave a static cloud effect behind. Enemies who walk into the cloud should be immediately stunned, as it used to be (and leaving/re-entering stuns again, as most of those effects work). Once an enemy has been inside the Miasma zone, they should continue taking damage for the remaining duration, even if they leave the zone, otherwise the damage would be too insignificant. Multiple Miasma zones need to stack, allowing you to create powerful overlapping choke points, and utilizing spore/molt/toxic lash to spread procs around and make those (now long-lasting) Miasma zones all the more deadly. It also needs its corrosive proc back.

We're already dealing with DoT instead of burst DPS, which is detrimental enough, so it should still be fair, considering the preposterous amount of burst DPS other frames can very easily/cheaply rack up.


With these changes, Saryn would become much more team-friendly (with team damage buffs and the ability to generate health orbs). Using her spores to spread around would become inherently much easier, but still more rewarding to people utilising the other skills (and rewarding team efforts too). Base buffs to her strength/range would compensate for the overall lack of effectiveness for a "DoT" class at high level, and would allow a greater diversity for mod builds (allowing players to reasonably sacrifice certain stats to boost others). The ability to leave behind Miasma zones fits perfectly with the DoT caster nature that DE seem to want for Saryn, and would become a very effective tool at blocking choke points and protecting targets against close-range units. 

With these changes, a Saryn would be able to run around, leaving clouds of Miasma everywhere while spreading plagues left and right. You can still argue that "WF isn't made for Damage over Time", but with all the damage bonuses you'd be getting from stacked Miasmas, plus the extra Miasma damage from Viral/Toxin procs (from your spore plague) you would be melting enemies behind you before you had time to turn around. Taking out an entire room in 30 seconds of DoT is just as effective as taking 30 seconds to run-and-gun to clear it

[Xentia-Damascus]

 

Next Steps:

The first round of tweaks are coming to Saryn in the next hotfix pending testing. 

1) Instead of just disappearing on enemy death, Saryn’s Spores will now detonate at a reduced spread distance if the target dies. You may have found yourself in the scenario where you Spore'd an enemy, didn't pop the spores, killed said enemy, only to see his Spores die with him instead of infecting nearby enemies.

2) Toxic Lash can now proc multiple times.

As always - things are subject to change. Keep an eye out for 17.10.1 in which the first round of tweaks will appear.

 

Promising start. Hopefully accompanied by a few number changes. 

[NinjaShotGunGuy]

I like the rework, but it is a nerf if you simply look at the numbers.

I think Drinniol from reddit said it best
"The problem is, even looking at the entire package, at everything Saryn brings now... she's just lacking. What does she do? Her damage is now inferior, her utility is still lacking, and her survivability is not nearly good enough to compensate.

Miasma? Miasma got nerfed into the dirt. Even WITH the 100% damage bonuses (both of them!) from viral and toxin, it's STILL weaker than comparable abilities from other warframes which require no setup. Yeah, we all knew DE wouldn't let the old 'press 4 to win' negative duration supernuke stand, but come on. This is ridiculous.

Spores is a joke too. And it's the best part of her new kit! 20 damage base, 25 damage when you pop em? Really? Yeah, you get 3 spores, but crap multiplied by 3 is still... It's basically just an AoE viral proc. You know what else is an AoE viral proc? Any red veil proccing weapon. It's nice, but it's not THAT nice. Even if Saryn just, you know, automatically viralled everything always... that would mean everything had half health. That's equivalent to a 100% damage buff. That's... just not good enough to carry a kit. Mirage brings 500+% to the table. Nova brings exactly the same damage buff in molecular prime, while also slowing things 75% and adding an AoE explosion to their deaths which is RATHER A LOT STRONGER than the 25 per spore explosion of Saryn's...

And again, I'm not trying to take these abilities out of their warframe dependent context. But when you add in the context, it doesn't help Saryn's case at all. Mirage also has ANOTHER multiplicative damage/protection/utility buff in hall of mirrors, and one of the best CC ults in the game. Nova's other abilities are admittedly overshadowed by Mprime. But Mprime is exactly the sort of ability Miasma used to be - an ultimate so strong it could carry an otherwise underwhelming kit.

And then you look at Saryn's other abilities. Molt is nice, but it's simply not nearly as good as other defensive options available to other warframes. That used to be OK when Saryn had more killing power to compensate, but those days are gone... The synergy with Miasma and Spores isn't enough, because the base damages are so pathetic.

Similarly, Toxic Lash. What's the deal here? A 30% damage buff that only scales multiplicatively (that is, 100% extra power strength gets you to 60% damage buff, not 130% like some warframes get). That's reallllly not worth the hassle of, you know, going into melee on a not especially defensive frame (and how many defensive mods can you fit onto saryn now that she, like ember, needs EVERY WARFRAME STAT to function?!). And 40% extra melee blocking damage. Come on. DE even went to the trouble of capping the possible melee block bonus at 90%. 90%! As if being able to block more than 90% of incoming damage with your melee was some sort of gamebreaking balance threat.

Silva and Aegis used to be able to block 100% of incoming damage even without stamina before stamina was removed. You know what people thought of Silva and Aegis? They thought it sucked.

I mean - and again I feel here is a point where actually comparing across frames is super salient - the damage reduction buffs of other frames (e.g. Mesa, Mirage) are capped at 95% (Trinity can go even higher! But that's her specialty). 95%, and you don't even have to be melee blocking while oriented toward the damage source. And you know how much power strength you need to hit that 95% cap on those frames? Around 20%. You know how much power strength you need to hit the 90% block cap on this ability? Around 225%.

So yeah.

The numbers here just don't make any sense. They literally don't add up.

Saryn's new kit is a mishmash of ideas we've already seen in other warframe's kits, but with worse numbers, higher costs, and ridiculous constraints on use.

And it's really sad.

I think the overall idea - the flavor - of the rework is sound. I think the kit is salvageable. But it needs a massive, massive and immediate Atlas style emergency buff and retuning of almost every single number and scaling factor.

tl;dr: Saryn's rework in a nutshell: Crap multiplied by 3 is still crap. Synergies are worthless without anything worth synergizing with"

[CrimsonSkies00]

You can't deny this time DE is take the pants off then fark.

Because why? using 1st skill and 2nd skill to make 4th skill more dmg,this mean 1st and 2nd skill still useless,DE has change 4th skill to coordinate these 2 skill.

to conceal this weak point,DE make the 4th skill strong a bit, ya just abit,and said combine all these skill can kill 40++

compare before,now without 1st and 2nd skill miasma is weak,4th skill is nerfed.

You can scold me whatever you want,i just tell the truth.

[Pro3Display]

oh well, guy convinced me to post my thoughts here for DE to see so here it goes

 

first off, sry for my bad explaining skills

 

This rework reminded me why i never liked to play Saryn despite being completely in love with her design.

Her kit was always felt awkward to use and made me ask why would i use this or that ability

 

her abilitiy mechanics make perfect logical sense on paper but leave a shallow feeling of 'why do i bother'

 

Old Saryn                                                                                          New Saryn

1) Places DoT that feel like no damage,                                            1)Places DoT that feel like no damage,

   fulfill x condition to deal                                                                      fulfill x condition to halve multiple enemy's Hp and deal

   what feels like no damage to multiple targets                                  what feels like no damage to multiple targets

 

2) Leave behind a clone that draw aggro                                         2)Leave behind a clone that draw aggro or go to a place 

fragile one and feel like almost useless                                                you want enemies to gather and return

                                                                                                                      Leave behind a clone that draw aggro and use 1 on it to (look 1)

 

3) Imbue your melee weapon                                                             3) Imbue your melee weapon with damage amplification 

with damage that feels like it make no difference                                 that is now at least noticable

 

4) Ability that requires specific build to be good/great,                  4) Ability that requires specific build AND 2 specific debuffs

to make this frame be used as a top notch nuker                                 to be usefull

it doesn't deal remotely enough damage in any other case                it doesn't deal any noticable damage in any other case

 

 

so what i am intending to say that 

 

Reworked Saryn is an improvement to what it was

 

BUT

 

She had bad kit to begin with because it FELT BAD/AWKWARD and had only ability that felt fine

and with minmaxed build felt OUTSTANDING

 

p.s to clear this out to those who might not understand: I played Saryn, maxed and potatoed her

 

TL;DR Saryn was a pile of dirt with a cherry on top, now the cherry is gone and we all clearly see that she is pile of dirt

Edited November 5, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Chhkt]

Wait what? I have to pay attention and push buttons other than 4?

 

Time to slobber rabidly all over my friggin keyboard!

 

On a more serious note, telling people her health stats are going to be positively changed then slashing her HP is...umm...does not compute.

[AutumnBramble]

Promising start. Hopefully accompanied by a few number changes. 

 

Yeah it's cool they're gonna tweak her but like. Why the EHP decrease now that she's being pushed further into combat? Like. The Spore thing is the obvious change at least.

 

And again, this isn't about having to push things other than 4. This is that we now have to push 3-1-e-4. It's just more button presses, and more energy than she has.

Edited November 5, 2015 by AutumnBramble

[Heatnix.]

People mistake synergy with dependency. Miasma is *dependent* of Venom and Molt to be somewhat as effective as other frame's one key moves. Synergy would be a completely different concept.

 

Her stats overall are worse since she can't take on damage anymore for lack of proper HP and her energy "buff" was a pittance.

 

But hey, DE is perfect and they never make mistakes, right?

[RyanGo]

It seems like when people are calculating Saryn's current max damage, don't we also have to consider that Saryn reaches max damage only enemies are virally proc'd? As in when they will have their health already cut in half?

 

Also if you have a molt clone up with spores when you cast miasma, that will also explode with extra damage.

 

If we add these factors in then what does it look like?

[Meneliki]

Ok, just did some more testing.

 

@Dragonofdarkness:

 

1) You're right - Miasma appears to be detonating Molt instead of feeding potential damage into it.

2) As you said, getting viral spread onto the whole group is a real pain now. It doesn't spread like it used to. I have no idea why they would change that.

3) As for proc'ing toxin on everyone - Im arming Toxic Lash and running in with a sliding twirl-attack on a weapon with lots of range. Orthos would work. I'm currently messing around with Atterax. (both would work - both are long range, slash weapons)

 

I'll probably make a quick video showcasing it, but its basically molt + spore.. run in, slide-attack.. hitting both the molt and the enemies... now everyone's viralled and toxin'ed... Miasma, go melee crazy. Everything dies except me.

 

In general, Saryn is an infested killing MACHINE. 20 level 100 corrupted ancients? Ezpz. They drop like flies to the new Saryn. Seriously - all dead in a matter of seconds. 

 

Corpus/Grineer units............. not so much. I would've thought Corpus would've been susceptible because of course toxin penetrates shields and so on... but yeah. no. they tank pretty good. Same with Grineer.

 

We will see what the tweaks bring. (Looking forward to PrimeTime tonight. This should be interesting.)

Edited November 5, 2015 by Meneliki

[Gregoriez]

This was a step in the right direction, synergy is good but all her stats don't live up to this. We will be using more of her abilities so we need efficiency yes? But we also need duration to deal damage but by maximising both we won't have any range compensate for that and we won't do damage. She's a bit problematic to build if you ask me. Assuming you do get to mod for everything somehow you won't have space for hp mods and with less ehp, things won't be looking good for the poor frame

[Burq]

As someone who hates playing Draco and hated using Saryn as a 1 trick pony... she's STILL a 1 trick pony, just harder to manage and still not viable for high level missions.

 

While the stat changes kinda make sense, less health for more armor and energy pool, the hp reduction hurts Saryn more then other frames since she was supposed to be an hp tank. Still manageable but not that good.

 

Now, the skill synergies feel less like synergy and more like they are required for her ultimate skill to be any good:

 

*Spore on its own is ok but being able to cast on an enemy then have that enemy die for whatever and not trigger the spreads leave the skill feeling very unreliable unless you are using a precise weapon or use it on molt and not on your enemies.

 

*Molt is in a good place but it feels like you need to spam it to feed to miasma and not so much as an escape mechanism even thou it can still be used like that... at mid levels max, at high levels it just takes too much damage too quickly to be able to use it to escape or set up Miasma's combo. Regenerative Molt is even better now thanks to the negative duration aspect of Saryn being  pounded into the ground but its still hard to use at high levels unless you put it in a place that's hard to hit by enemies, an in consequence they'll focus more on you.

 

*Toxic Lash is still almost pointless, with Saryn having less survivablity and forcing you to use melee to benefit from the damage and damage resistance it kinda invites you to get killed, specially in higher level maps (35+ lv) and the fact that blocking doesnt protect you from the back it just means a Gunner or Bombard or Ancient healer knocking you from behind is all it takes to go down. Now normally that wouldnt be a thing you'd do but the added effect of beign able to trigger Spore on hit would be nice but it still pretty unreliable; I have only manage to make Spores spread with Toxic Lash on a couple of times.

 

*Miasma is pretty much where I expected it to be post nerf, neutered, but the fact that it still has horrible range and that you NEED to use the Molt>Spore>Miasma to get something close to the old damage is very troublesome; not only is it a huge chunk of energy to match her old damage output, the range means that the time you spent setting up the combo is wasted on very few enemies while their buddies outside the range were free to syill shoot at you with impunity. Increase the range with mods? Prepare to lose A LOT of damage, unless you want to take a big hit to efficiency, which you DESPERATELY NEED to use the combo often. Slot in Rage to mitigate energy usage doesnt mean you can just spam Regenerative Molt to survive and it's a dicey gamble at high levels and you need a slot you already are running out of to keep the damage tolerable. Add Quickthinking ? congratulation, now you only have 5 slots to juggle efficiency, range, duration and power strength.

 

The fact that all her abilities benefit from everything and you NEED to spam them to be anywhere near effective kinda leaves her with only a cookie cutter all-around build as her only real build at the moment.

 

All in all, I dont mind her changes but they REALLY underdone them to a ridiculous degree to the point that there is not much point to the frame: Want damage/nuking? Go for Nova, Equinox or even Oberon have it better and with much more utility. Want crowd control? Frost has that and damage AND armor reduction while not beign OP thanks to not having much on all 3 categories, Nyx, Nova and Loki do it much better. Damage overtime? Ember does it better with world on fire and her status effect. 

 

But the thing that makes me dislike this rework so much is that it feels that an Ignis with no range added and a Radiation/Viral build does so much better then all her abilities combined AND confuses in a much larger area while still having ok damage since you dont need to waste time setting up a combo.

[Wakda]

While reading one of posts with suggested improvements something strucked me.

 

Why not forget about old miasma and not create something that in mine option should work better with her new kit.

 

Lets call it 4th for time begin. How about creating cloud AoE which moves with, her, deal gas damage, ticks like old miasma with same maybe even less damage that use same maybe bit different energy draining mechanics as Hysteria, ticks every 1second maybe every 2 seconds(for not to be too op) and gains bonuses from her other abilities +75% from viral, +75% from toxic maybe even add +75% from corrosive.

 

For example:

Spore

When target afected by spore enters area of 4th spell spore explode on next tick and spread viral on enemies in some proximty.

 

Molt

It should be woking almost same as Spore, melting in area of cloud on next tick from 4th and create puddle that apply corrosive on entering.

 

Toxic Lash

With that idea of AoE cloud it shouldnt be much tweeked, just  procing toxic on melee hits as it was.

 

In mine opinion it might be cool to forget about old miasma and move to new toxic era with again in mine opinion more enjoyable gameplay for her.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Wakda

[Creamed]

In general, Saryn is an infested killing MACHINE. 20 level 100 corrupted ancients? Ezpz. They drop like flies to the new Saryn. Seriously - all dead in a matter of seconds. 

 

My thoughts exactly however not in a good way. It basically just screams mag and corpus & i may be wrong but isn't she getting reworked b/c that's the only thing she's good at?

Edited November 5, 2015 by Creamed

[IronWolfKnight]

 

Next Steps:

The first round of tweaks are coming to Saryn in the next hotfix pending testing. 

1) Instead of just disappearing on enemy death, Saryn’s Spores will now detonate at a reduced spread distance if the target dies. You may have found yourself in the scenario where you Spore'd an enemy, didn't pop the spores, killed said enemy, only to see his Spores die with him instead of infecting nearby enemies.

2) Toxic Lash can now proc multiple times.

As always - things are subject to change. Keep an eye out for 17.10.1 in which the first round of tweaks will appear.

 

 

Will there be a fix for enemies like Bombard or Napalms being able to trigger spores on other enemies with their own weapon?

Edited November 5, 2015 by IronWolfKnight

[OverlordMcGeek]

Can someone please tell me if her 4th has a full ability CC "blind" or the regular half second like last time.

[RHuckebein]

Exactly.

 

It plays EXACTLY the same as the builds anyone who was actually taking saryn into late-game content did.  Spread spore, hit miasma.  It's just weaker now.

 

 

My thoughts exactly however not in a good way. It basically just screams mag and corpus & i may be wrong but isn't she getting reworked b/c that's the only thing she's good at?

 

The problem there is that mag is, hands down, the BEST frame at killing corpus.

 

Saryn isn't any better at killing infested than the other nuke frames.  Equinox makes her look bad at it.  She just 'seems' good at it because ancients have a severe corrosive weakness and everything else has low HP.

 

Given that you're already factoring in weapon attacks for getting your status out there to multiply your weak ultimate, Equinox can walk up, push 4, kill two ancients in a couple of seconds, and then immediately obliterate all of the others.  Faster and less energy expenditure than saryn while also being better at everything else.

Edited November 5, 2015 by RHuckebein

[taiiat]

i'm somewhat partial to Molt granting 4 Seconds of Invisibility upon cast.

 

some other thoughts i had today:

 

also, why doesn't Power Strength increase the Health Regen of Molt as well as it's Health. it still doesn't do that :|

and... Spores should have the 'repeated cast Cost Reduction' feature IMO. ala Landslide, Ripline, Et Cetera. could reduce the Energy Cost a bit, but this is probably a more elegant approach.

 

 

and Saryn having less Health (and EHP) now doesn't really make sense. i see no reason for it. Saryn is a relatively Close Range Warframe, durability is somewhat important.

150 Health and 175 Armor? sure, go ahead. 20 points of Armor doesn't cover the health difference though. not even close.

again, no reason to have reduced her Health. there isn't even any practical source for CC, despite needing to be close to Enemies.

Saryn even has below average Sprint Speed / general Animation Speed because of a Health Pool that... no longer exists.

 

which on that note, dear lord, halve the Damage per Tick, double the Duration of Miasma. and ALSO make the Stun a 1100ms Stun, applied on every Damage Tick, so that more Ticks actually helps the Stun so you have practical CC.

i've been asking for this for a long time, as the only source of CC being untouchable by Mods is poo.

 

 

some other things of note...

- Toxic Lash being a Melee only Ability is poor. Saryn interfaces with Guns and Melee.

instead, global Damage Reduction + Blocking Bonus would be appropriate. less Blocking Bonus, but general Damage Reduction added. still benefits Melee the most, but doesn't leave the button useless if you're a Skilled Player and mixing the use of all 3 of your Weapons, rather than only using one.

and the additional Toxin shouldn't be limited to only Melee. Guns should get it too. hell, even if it's a reduced +Toxin Multiplier and doesn't guarantee Status - but you could just duplicate the Effect on all of your Weapons. Guns can spread it around and pop Spores by aiming at them, Melee spreads it around too and autopops to compensate for Melee being unaimable.

additionally - Toxic Lash should share with Allies! :) 15m Range for sharing.

- Molt immediately detonates when you cast Miasma. it does seem to actually increase the Damage of Miasma, but it feels quite strange.

furthermore, i thought Molt was going to be a 'Battery Totem' for Miasma, holding Damage to be released upon it's death. somewhat disappoint that it isn't.

- Spores still don't detonate on Enemy Death.

- i see a reasonable note somewhere in this Thread that the Damage Multipliers for Viral and Toxin Status can't be modified. no comment on whether they should or shouldn't.

- i would prefer if Nullifiers would only Nullify Molt if I walk into the Nullifier Shield. not if they walk into Molt. note, Damage and whatnot coming from it i expect to be nullified while it's inside the Nullifier Shield. i just don't expect it to be deprecated unless i myself walk inside. this is fair IMO.

- i'm somewhat fond of Toxic Lash being a Toggle, which only drains when you Attack. unlike Channeling though, would like it to be every Strike that connects, not every Enemy hit. every Enemy hit is part of what makes Channeling almost completely useless unless you're a Trinity. nobody can afford to use that.

- i see a good point that Poisonous Flower and Venomous Snake can/should do more than DoT, including debuffing.

Spores slowing Enemies say, 10% per Spore (per visual one? hard to tell if casting it 50 times stacks Spores or not. i'm assuming per visual one, so that you can't make Enemies completely pause in time, that's Frost's job! :D).

Molt can Knockdown with the Explosion.

Melee Strikes while Toxic Lash is active causing Stagger?

earlier mentioned Stunning on Miasma.

 

with everything that's been mentioned in mind, Miasma might as well cost 75E, Molt 35E.

 

 

i will note, that i don't feel like a slimeball casting Miasma anymore. still could use some adjustments i've already stated, but it works with other Abilities and feels good, rather than "i don't want to press this button unless i absolutely need to".

however now, spreading the two Status Effects works well with Miasma. and while not as instantaneous as the Abusive Loadouts before were, the Damage is still quite good. i only use +45% Power Strength and the Damage can easily reach in the general vicinity of the Damage that Miasma did on average before with Abusive Loadouts. + the Viral Status you already got as well.

as a Warframe already about DoT, i'll gladly take more of it! i like DoT and Poison if anyone couldn't tell.

 

i think the best part about all of this, is that i have an Ocean of DoT Numbers in front of me using Saryn - and that's exactly what i want! an Ocean of DoT. that Ocean of Poison is sexy.

 

 

at the end of the day, Saryn fits the two Themes being mixed in her a lot better. even less CC than before however(feels like the Stun is slightly shorter, it's hard to tell as the Stun previously didn't seem to be ending on full second counts), which is meh. didn't have much as it was.

as i knew it would be from what was listed as adjustments overall - bettER. doesn't address a few of the problems but it's certainly better now.

 

 

 

finally, i had a good time eating metaphorical popcorn, skimming through a dozen pages, and seeing 3/4 or more of people not knowing how the Abilities worked previously or currently, then denouncing them now and praising what they were before.

including many that claim to use Saryn heavily. clearly didn't.

i even think that she should have 175 health and 150-175 armor to be a counterpack to frost: 150-175 shield + defensive spots vs evading fire and more health

that makes a lot of sense. we have a defensive, Shield based Warframe, Saryn could be an Offensive, (hopefully in near future as per description and part of the theme) Elusive Health based Warframe.

 

 

- - - - - 

 

 

"performance reasons"

yes, Performance reasons.

because Hall of Mirrors is the worst performing Ability in the game. it's performance is despicable, even now.

it's gotten a lot better over the months, but it's still alone more demanding than most of the game is all bundled together.

 

I heard that if you inflict a high damage toxin proc on Spore host, spreading the spores will actually inflict the same toxin damage to infected enemies.

that's the functionality, yes. Spore will transfer Toxin on an Enemy to any Enemies within Range of the Spore spreading.

 

you have to run 4 cp to get the guaranteed viral proc though

Armor has no effect on Status Chance. Status Chances being weighted by the Damage you deal isn't even relevant here, as it's comprised of only one Damage Type.

 

my gun does more Damage than that DoT does per Tick

well, not only does it apply Damage more than once - but such DoT's are also hitting any Enemies in the room at the same time.

 

your Spike Damage Weapon certainly Kills one Enemy instantly - but you clear all of the Enemies faster with say, a Penta or w/e. even if you are dealing about 1/5 of the Damage to each Enemy as the Spike Damage Weapon.

 

Replace Saryn bullet jump animation with a farting animation with innate gas damage pls.

noty :v

[Darzk]

 

Saryn Changes

• Instead of just disappearing on enemy death, Saryn’s Spores will now detonate at a reduced spread distance if the target dies.
• Toxic Lash can now proc multiple times.

Woot, we're getting there.

 

Just need something energy-related and I'd be pretty happy.

[Educated_Beast]

I'm so happy the rework (nuke nerf, change, whatever you wanna call it) came with the new armor. Not because I like it, but because I hate the armor with a passion. The armor is so ugly I'm not even tempted to make the new skills work and re-forma for duration.

I'm sure the Saryn can still kill, but you cant compare these changes with the frost or excal rework. Those are fun changes that were an obvious improvement, not a side grade. I wouldn't even say a side grade, that would imply Saryn still have a unique niche. Now it's just another frame with nothing outstanding and no reason to play it, unless your into flowers...

Saryn was one of my go-to frames when I wanted to nuke an area and quickly finish a mission (like an invasion). I was excited to get a rework because I thought the skills would be different. They are all the same except it takes a lot longer to kill. It's a bad cc frame, bad nuke frame, and the increased damage you get takes to long to go into effect. DOT does not belong in warframe. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue about the skills, I'm sure some people will enjoy the frame; my feedback is the ugly armor.

I always though sayrn looked like a cat and was excited to get a new armor in line with the theme. I like the immortal skin, but I was thinking we were going to get something along the lines of a serpent or scorpion, but we get a very large flower...

This coming from a guy that bought almost all the skins, day of dead, immortals, excal, valk, etc. and was excited to see a rework on part with previous frame alterations. These just feel rushed. Why make a skin for the 3-5% woman population in this game?

Of all the women that went into battle throughout history along side men, did any of them wear giant flowers?

No, because it's absurd. Sayrn is just going to go on ice for awhile and hang with the Kubrows.

TLDR: DE - you would have to pay me plat to wear this garbage. This is the worst art design I've seen come out of this game. You should have at least made the flower a separate piece of armor like volt, frost, mag, etc.

Come on, not even tribes that used flowers to make poison wore the flowers to battle.


TLDR 2: Disappointed and the new skills adequately match the flower.

Edited November 6, 2015 by -Himari-
Edited out remark.