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De, You Took What Should Have Been Fun And Just Turned It Into A Grind

And_Now_I_Dance

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And_Now_I_Dance

And_Now_I_Dance

Posted
Posted

I want to preface this by saying that I really love Warframe, and I think the people at DE have done a fantastic job on it.  I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

 

That said, I'm worried that DE has lost touch with its audience.

 

This update that you released isn't fun.  It should have been, but it isn't.  Melee 2.0 was supposed to bring us the next level of Warframe combat, but instead just turned into grinding for stance mods.  You took what was supposed to be a fun addition to the game, and hid it behind an absolutely massive RNG wall.

 

There was no reason for this.  You have a really fun game here, that people genuinely enjoy playing.  You could have just given us combos on our melee weapons, and people would have been happy.  You could have made stance mods common drops, and people would have been happy.  Nobody wanted this update for another grind.  People have not been eagerly awaiting this update for months and months because they wanted to farm the same stage over and over. People just wanted something fun.  Something that shook up game play and evolved it.

 

Instead of the next evolution of Warframe, we got the very worst of what Warframe has to offer.  Your game has always featured quite a bit of grinding, and that's fine, because it was only necessary if you wanted the best of the best stuff, such as the absurdly powerful mods and prime gear.

 

But this?  You've hidden what feels like a core game play mechanic behind one of these grinds, and that just isn't ok.  Sure, the hardcore players will still find them.  Some players will drop real money on the game and get them in a lottery, but for the majority of players the update they've been looking forward to all these months just turned out to be an exercise in frustration.

 

I had a friend who came back to Warframe after a several month break, excited for melee 2.0.  I showed him some of the teaser trailers and dev streams, and he got even more excited.  He stayed up until 11 PM, despite having work the next day, because he couldn't wait to try out this new system.  I had mentioned that we needed mods to unlock different stances, and he didn't have a problem with it; so we jumped in, eager to find some.

 

After an hour of playing, we still had nothing.  After a bit of research, I told him just about all of them were rare, and it could be a while before we found any.  He just laughed, saying, "Yeah, that sounds like Warframe," and told me he had to get some sleep.  We both ended the night feeling dejected and demoralized.  I don't know if he's coming back.

 

I hope you understand how frustrating this is.  How much we both wanted to enjoy this update, and instead ended up not only not enjoying ourselves, but frustrated and angry.  This can't possibly be what you intended.  There was so much potential here to just give players something fun, why did you feel you had to hide it from us like this?

 

This goes back to what I said originally, why I'm worried DE has lost touch with its audience.  More and more new stuff is being put behind a massive grind/RNG wall.  Weapons, Warframes, bosses, and now these stance mods.  You don't have to do this.  Sometimes it's ok to just give us cool stuff to play around with.  That's what made the game fun in the first place.  You used to put nearly everything up on the market, available for anyone to buy and make at their leisure, and people liked it!  I'm not saying everything should be available to everyone, but not every aspect of the game needs to be hidden behind a grind.  Sometimes, we just want a new toy to play with, without any strings attached.

 

In conclusion, please remember it's not the grind that keeps people playing, but the game itself.  You've made a genuinely enjoyable experience here, but when you hide even core game play mechanics behind RNG walls you actively hinder us from enjoying that experience.  I urge you to reconsider how you've chosen to implement this system, and to think back on what made Warframe so successful in the first place.  It was never the grind that attracted people to your game, it was being an awesome space ninja with a variety of tools that let you play the game however you wanted.  I would love to see more focus on that aspect, and less on how many hoops you can make us jump through.

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DMan

DMan

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Posted

Going to quote something I posted on a similar thread:

I don't get why are there even "stance mods". Isn't using a melee weapons should be something that us space ninjas are supposed to be familiar with? It's like removing all your warframe powers and forcing you to farm bosses / transmutes / general-RNG to get your powers.

It doesn't make any sense.

 

+1 for the op

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ThePrdator

ThePrdator

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You sir, have condensed what is otherwise whining from others (mind you the problem is real but whining is no way to help) into a concise, perfect and factually correct statement that is truly how I and many others in the community feel. Thank you.

DE, listen to this you pooped on a birthday cake, and worst of all you did it in front of our eyes, just dropped your pants and pooped.

The anecdote is very true and how most changes increasing the RNH end up tearing some loyal people away.

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Vahlak

Vahlak

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Posted

Valid, and true feedback, is not considered taking shots at the developer, GalliumGD.

 

I spent 6 hours playing today, and have gotten no stance mods, at all. I'm tired, and I may not even get to try again tomorrow. So when do people like me get to experience update 13?  After I scale the rng wall?

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Katakuna

Katakuna

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Posted

It's exactly as I feared, since months ago.  Sucks being right, sometimes.

 

I like Melee 2.0.  I'd propose to her with a diamond ring if I could actually experience everything she has to offer without wasting my days away grinding for stances.

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Dtexas

Dtexas

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Posted

I agree. I am also pretty sure that in the preview livestream they said that all melee weapons would come with a default stance mod that had about 2 different combos and you would have to search for better stance mods.

 

That would have been fine, but instead we got nothing but more rng walls. I have liked everything DE has done to this point, but there could have been a better way to go about U13. They should have delayed the solar rails and dark sectors to a later date imo.

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koolen

koolen

Posted
Posted

I want to preface this by saying that I really love Warframe, and I think the people at DE have done a fantastic job on it.  I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

 

That said, I'm worried that DE has lost touch with its audience.

 

This update that you released isn't fun.  It should have been, but it isn't.  Melee 2.0 was supposed to bring us the next level of Warframe combat, but instead just turned into grinding for stance mods.  You took what was supposed to be a fun addition to the game, and hid it behind an absolutely massive RNG wall.

 

There was no reason for this.  You have a really fun game here, that people genuinely enjoy playing.  You could have just given us combos on our melee weapons, and people would have been happy.  You could have made stance mods common drops, and people would have been happy.  Nobody wanted this update for another grind.  People have not been eagerly awaiting this update for months and months because they wanted to farm the same stage over and over. People just wanted something fun.  Something that shook up game play and evolved it.

 

Instead of the next evolution of Warframe, we got the very worst of what Warframe has to offer.  Your game has always featured quite a bit of grinding, and that's fine, because it was only necessary if you wanted the best of the best stuff, such as the absurdly powerful mods and prime gear.

 

But this?  You've hidden what feels like a core game play mechanic behind one of these grinds, and that just isn't ok.  Sure, the hardcore players will still find them.  Some players will drop real money on the game and get them in a lottery, but for the majority of players the update they've been looking forward to all these months just turned out to be an exercise in frustration.

 

I had a friend who came back to Warframe after a several month break, excited for melee 2.0.  I showed him some of the teaser trailers and dev streams, and he got even more excited.  He stayed up until 11 PM, despite having work the next day, because he couldn't wait to try out this new system.  I had mentioned that we needed mods to unlock different stances, and he didn't have a problem with it; so we jumped in, eager to find some.

 

After an hour of playing, we still had nothing.  After a bit of research, I told him just about all of them were rare, and it could be a while before we found any.  He just laughed, saying, "Yeah, that sounds like Warframe," and told me he had to get some sleep.  We both ended the night feeling dejected and demoralized.  I don't know if he's coming back.

 

I hope you understand how frustrating this is.  How much we both wanted to enjoy this update, and instead ended up not only not enjoying ourselves, but frustrated and angry.  This can't possibly be what you intended.  There was so much potential here to just give players something fun, why did you feel you had to hide it from us like this?

 

This goes back to what I said originally, why I'm worried DE has lost touch with its audience.  More and more new stuff is being put behind a massive grind/RNG wall.  Weapons, Warframes, bosses, and now these stance mods.  You don't have to do this.  Sometimes it's ok to just give us cool stuff to play around with.  That's what made the game fun in the first place.  You used to put nearly everything up on the market, available for anyone to buy and make at their leisure, and people liked it!  I'm not saying everything should be available to everyone, but not every aspect of the game needs to be hidden behind a grind.  Sometimes, we just want a new toy to play with, without any strings attached.

 

In conclusion, please remember it's not the grind that keeps people playing, but the game itself.  You've made a genuinely enjoyable experience here, but when you hide even core game play mechanics behind RNG walls you actively hinder us from enjoying that experience.  I urge you to reconsider how you've chosen to implement this system, and to think back on what made Warframe so successful in the first place.  It was never the grind that attracted people to your game, it was being an awesome space ninja with a variety of tools that let you play the game however you wanted.  I would love to see more focus on that aspect, and less on how many hoops you can make us jump through.

Wise words, I hope you hear them DE, you have both my respect

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egregiousRac

egregiousRac

Posted
Posted

I agree with the thread. I thought DE learned after the release of Nekros that grinding is bad, but seems like I have been dead wrong.

 

With Nekros it only takes one to two runs to get the golem navs required for a key. Here I am seeing one guy per run, no matter what mode it is, and each drops 1-2/24 required pieces. Even with a Nekros it will still take around 8 runs to get enough for one key.

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Hybridon

Hybridon

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Posted

I feel as if De baked a a delicious cake, but in order for us to taste the cake we have to work at the bakery for several hours, in order to taste one piece of the cake... and it might not even be the piece we wanted.

 

And before anybody says the cake is a lie... it seems so atm.

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Kickboxing_Banana

Kickboxing_Banana

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Posted

With Nekros it only takes one to two runs to get the golem navs required for a key. Here I am seeing one guy per run, no matter what mode it is, and each drops 1-2/24 required pieces. Even with a Nekros it will still take around 8 runs to get enough for one key.

 

Despite that, people complained more than ever before because of the grind back then. Hydroid isn't even worth all the damn grind, I bought it with 300 plat and I already regret it.

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Lunamaniac

Lunamaniac

Posted
Posted
 

It's exactly as I feared, since months ago.  Sucks being right, sometimes.

 

I like Melee 2.0.  I'd propose to her with a diamond ring if I could actually experience everything she has to offer without wasting my days away grinding for stances.

Same, I love melee 2.0.  Even just the little bit of it I have access to right now, but why should I have to run the same mission more than 40 times and be no closer to getting my first stance mod?  I wouldn't mind grinding if the grind was just a little less extreme.

 

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Hybridon

Hybridon

Posted
Posted

Despite that, people complained more than ever before because of the grind back then. Hydroid isn't even worth all the damn grind, I bought it with 300 plat and I already regret it.

 

I almost bought him, cause I did that with Zephyr and it was worth it...

 

But after seeing some feedback on him I ditched the idea and Im gona slowly grind for him, if I get in the mood.

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testwizard

testwizard

Posted
Posted

omg , guys u get angry over everything.

THIS IS A EASY GRIND.

ill tell u why :

1.play extermination on ceres.

2. play until u have LOTS of everything.

3. make keys.

4. kill boss 3-6 times and DONE.

 

isnt that simple ?,

its easier than nekros......

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unknow99

unknow99

Posted
Posted

omg , guys u get angry over everything.

THIS IS A EASY GRIND.

ill tell u why :

1.play extermination on ceres.

2. play until u have LOTS of everything.

3. make keys.

4. kill boss 3-6 times and DONE.

 

isnt that simple ?,

its easier than nekros......

 

Further addition : When you're solo playing, have each weapon its own elemental type (and your sentinel too if you can) !

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Cpl_Facehugger

Cpl_Facehugger

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Posted

its easier than nekros......

No it isn't. Nekros needs, at minimum, 5 missions to farm.

1 mission to get the coordinates. One mission in the derelict to get golem coordinates. From there you can easily luck out and get enough golem nav coordinates in your ODA mission to sustainably farm Nekros, which takes a minimum of 3 runs.

Meanwhile, Hek keys take twenty something beacons just to make, with many of those beacons being rare and uncommon. On top of that, the beacons in in the possession of an enemy type which pretty much exists to screw over solo players.

So no, it's by no means easier than Nekros.

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