Pvp Feedback And Qol Megathread

[Cleesus]

----- New version of this thread will be posted tonight or tomorrow ------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The purpose of this thread is to have a central location to collect and show PVP feedback and ideas. This thread will be updated frequently.

 

Even if you have only played one or two matches and you feel like you don’t know enough to contribute, you opinion and ideas are still valuable. We need opinions from newer and older players alike!

 

It might be helpful to read this before posting: Warning Points and Code of Conduct

 

Feel free to leave frame/weapon/QoL feedback directly in this thread or to link to your thread. Example Of constructive feedback

1. Banshee

 Banshees soundquake is currently unusable due to the slow casting times/low damage/ and lack of damage migration while the skill is active. 

1. Ash

Ashs Blade storm is unbalanced because of the insane bleed procs/invurnability/able to cast from far away/no way to skillfully block/dodge the damage. The skill still tracks you if you move outside of its initial radius if you are marked.

Etc

 

Those are just examples I do not believe Banshee is actually the biggest problem out there lol.

 

Same format for weapons 

 

You don’t have to write more than a sentence or two the important thing is to constructively get your point across and identify the problem areas.

 

 

You may ask what the point of doing this?

 

Here is your answer; I believe it is a lot easier to have a thread which lists all the current problems with pvp in one central location. Instead of having to try and search through pages of feedback to find what you are looking for, or to see if an issue has already been posted about, you can look here. 

 

In this section I will list links to Balance and QoL topics. Feel free to PM me or comment below if you think your thread should be added.  

 

Changelog(Started Oct 4th) Added new links under:

Oct 4th

Attacker Vs Defender

Stunlocking

 

Oct 7th

Lobbies

General balance

Preset Loadouts

Dark Energy colors

Advanced Options in UI

 

Oct 9th

Overhauls

 

Oct 30th

Different game modes

Balance Feedback

 

Rage+QT and Reflex Guard(Fixed but Rage no longer works)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302412-qt-rage-broken/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298939-get-out-of-conclaive-op-mods/

 

Ash is still unbalanced (multiple threads)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/300438-pvp-agaist-ash/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299406-ash-master-race-more-op-dc-hijinks-video/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/292082-ash-too-op-in-dark-sector/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/309097-almost-impossible-ash-bladestorm/#entry3502029

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308445-ash-is-now-even-more-powerfull-in-pvp/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308463-ash-blade-storm-buffed-on-1461/

 

Nyx absorb knockback spam

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/301886-nyxs-absorb-pvp-nerf/

 

Forma Polarities not working

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293621-ranking-up-in-conflicts-polarities-are-heavily-broken/

 

Ammo Imbalance

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293100-ammo-on-solar-rails/

 

Health imbalance

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286426-basic-health-stats-are-unbalanced-for-pvp-warning-contains-math/

 

Black/dark Energy Colors

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/303698-black-energy-broke-in-pvp/#entry3444964

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/320359-invisibility-in-pvp-needs-to-go/

 

General Balance

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/309998-the-solar-rail-conflicts-pvp-balance/?p=3510826

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310110-balance-giving-all-warframe-powers-cooldown-times-to-balance-pvp-a-list-of-all-powers/#entry3511894

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290268-pvp-balance-feedback/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310605-ash-and-other-warframes-auto-targetingoverextendedspawn-killing/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321205-a-few-warframe-power-tweaks-for-pvp/

 

 

QoL/Improvements/Ideas

 

Archwing pvp

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305684-archwing-assault-on-rails/?p=3464514

Allies Blocking each others rails

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298355-info-all-secrets-of-pvp-and-dark-sectors/

 

Attackers rage quitting ending matches/Hosting problems

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302847-solar-rails-no-fun-when-all-attackers-quit-repeatedly/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/301617-dark-sector-pvp-abuse-with-experience/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286197-we-need-hosted-pvp-if-we-ever-want-it-to-work-properly/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/306819-why-competitive-pvp-in-warframe-is-objectively-terrible/#entry3476359

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/319557-dedicated-servers-for-fair-pvp/#entry3609053

 

Coptering/parkour mechanics in pvp

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302958-melee-20-is-broken-within-a-pvp-setting/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/304355-how-about-more-pvp-parkour-maps-vid-of-a-bunch-of-current-parkour-moves/#entry3451439

 

 Stunlocking/CC

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302757-conclave-melee-is-worse-now/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/319674-please-change-slide-attacks/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/314024-knockback-spam-and-a-case-for-diminishing-returns/#entry3553162

 

Quitting Penalties

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289963-dark-sector-need-penalty-for-people-leaving/

 

Attacker Versus defender imbalance(Inside the match)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297613-dark-sectors-conflicts-can-the-attackers-win/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/298542-dark-sector-starting-defender-level/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/284708-dark-sector-conflicts-so-its-meant-to-be-one-sided/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/296843-host-disconnect-exploitation/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/296621-dark-sector-conflicts-spawn-kills-dafuq/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290461-some-suggestions-to-improve-dark-sectors-pvp-snowballing-solution/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/288837-darksector-feedback-too-much-snowballing-and-op/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/278842-dark-sector-conflicts-from-an-attacker-only-pov/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/319915-dark-sector-team-balance/

Remove Bleed out in conclave(when solo)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302447-bleed-out-mechanic-in-conclave/

 

Being able to practice on conflict map

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/301658-being-able-to-host-conclave-matches-solo/

 

Unable to join as party(defender)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/301259-defending-rail-wont-allow-squads-to-go-in-together/

 

Weekly Kills leaderboard suggestion

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297635-conclave-leader-board/

 

Different spectre types(attack/defend/support types)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293774-user-programmable-specter-ai-not-in-battle-commands/

Preset loadouts

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297255-how-to-make-pvp-fun/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295025-dark-sector-maybe-a-little-change-needed/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316627-another-change-how-dark-sector-conflicts-work-thread/#entry3578770

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321033-pvp-balance-as-a-choice-conclave-options/

 

Different way to rate gear for PVP

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/296813-conclave-rating-isnt-even-for-conclave/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295746-conclave-ratings-rework-for-mods-calculations-and-conclave-limits/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/319716-alternate-ways-to-balancing-only-conclave/

Add spectating

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287384-spectate-dark-sector-and-maybe-conclave-matches/

 

Conclave rating restriction in pvp

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/288904-why-arent-conclave-ratings-accounted-for-in-ds-conflicts/

 

Ability spam

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286028-ability-spams-un-fun-or-the-way-it-should-be/

 

PVP/PVE mod split

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/288113-a-new-conclave-or-dark-sector-conflict-mod-system/

 

Overhauls

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286916-dark-sector-pvp-a-simple-overhaul/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/280810-dark-sector-conflicts-a-major-overhaul/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/267170-the-dark-sectors-lets-get-it-done-right/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/313863-standard-to-warframe-pvp/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321926-feed-back-for-solar-rails-conflict/#entry3633755

 

Attack/defend (rails)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285577-option-to-defend-or-attack/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285199-conflict-battlepay-locked-for-defenders-if-theres-no-attackers/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/275943-dark-sectors-suggestion-for-attacker-command-center-a-solution/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/304350-dark-sector-conflict-new-system-idea/#entry3451373

 

Terminals immune to abilities

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285636-terminals-should-have-a-dispelanti-explosive-aura/

 

Add PVP Cosmetic gear

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/304365-pvp-feedback-and-qol-megathread/#entry3452785

 

Different game modes

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/304318-anyone-want-to-have-pvp-with-multiple-modes-with-12-16-players/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/336544-suggestions-for-pvp-balance-against/

 

Lack of reward

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310192-dark-sector-pvp-is-rendered-pointless-by-lack-of-reward-or-payment-from-clans/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310492-open-suggestion-for-a-pvp-overhaul-direct-pvp-game-rewards/

 

Battlepay

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/316304-battle-pay-ticket-problem/#entry3575907

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/319148-solar-rail-conflict-battle-pay-suggestion/

 

Lobbies

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321262-lobby-system-for-pvp/#entry3626553

 

Advanced Options in UI

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/321286-dark-sector-needs-ui-improvements/#entry3626785

 

Any help is appreciated

Edited March 22, 2015 by theclinton
General update

[Petersheikah]

I've seen a Nyx using Quick Thinking, Rage, Reflex Guard, a immortal Sahasa Kubrow to get infinite energy. He was spamming Absorb.

I'd love to see ALL the abilities banned in Conclaves, and these mods that give you immortality such as QT+Rage+Flow combo shouldn't be allowed.

[.Talia.]

Excellent list of PvP issues i must say!

 

I will contribute with a balance feedback, about a problem that's been around since the addition of Black Energy...

 

Black Energy Invisibility and Smoke Screen

 

Providing pics of black energy invisibility vs. blue energy invisibility.  It's obvious that they intended for invisibility to be slightly visible, black energy is the ONLY color that is COMPLETELY invisible.

 

Black Energy Invisibility:

 

Blue Energy Invisibility:

 

Black energy is broken for invisibility. 

 

Edited September 4, 2014 by RexSol

[Cleesus]

I've seen a Nyx using Quick Thinking, Rage, Reflex Guard, a immortal Sahasa Kubrow to get infinite energy. He was spamming Absorb.

I'd love to see ALL the abilities banned in Conclaves, and these mods that give you immortality such as QT+Rage+Flow combo shouldn't be allowed.

What exactly made the kubrow immortal?

 

Black Energy Invisibility and Smoke Screen

 

added

[Cleesus]

I also would like to hear how new weapons/buffs are working in PVP (Like the glaxion/Nukor, havent had a chance to try them yet)

[dadaddadada]

EDIT: i realised the thread was already listed in the OP post. This post here is useless and can be removed :3

 

This is not strictly for weapons/frame balance, but in conflicts polarities are not being calculated correctly while ranking up, as i myself tested and reported in the this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293621-ranking-up-in-conflicts-polarities-are-heavily-broken/

 

The point that touches balance issues is that at this moment weapons that have an innate V polarity in the top-left corner have an unfair advantage over all the other weapons, because they can pump out much earlier the Serrations/ Hornet strikes.

 

Many people have raised nice arguments about balance in that same thread totally worth checking out.

Edited September 4, 2014 by dadaddadada

[Fraank]

I also would like to hear how new weapons/buffs are working in PVP (Like the glaxion/Nukor, havent had a chance to try them yet)

The Glaxion works quite well. If the enemy is in range and he gets a cold proc he ll be an easy target.

cold as base element offers other secondary elements which are quite usefull. magnetic, blast, viral.

It's definitely worth a try.

 

I havn't tried the nukor yet.

[Cleesus]

This is not strictly for weapons/frame balance, but in conflicts polarities are not being calculated correctly while ranking up, as i myself tested and reported in the this thread:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293621-ranking-up-in-conflicts-polarities-are-heavily-broken/

 

The point that touches balance issues is that at this moment weapons that have an innate V polarity in the top-left corner have an unfair advantage over all the other weapons, because they can pump out much earlier the Serrations/ Hornet strikes.

 

Many people have raised nice arguments about balance in that same thread totally worth checking out.

oh yeah i already included that under the balance section

 

 

The Glaxion works quite well. If the enemy is in range and he gets a cold proc he ll be an easy target.

cold as base element offers other secondary elements which are quite usefull. magnetic, blast, viral.

It's definitely worth a try.

 

I havn't tried the nukor yet.

Ahh cool hehe, but an on deman slow sounds good, how long does it last

[Rakshal]

Oh wow, thanks for show off some of my post ^_^ , but for "Different way to rate gear for PVP" I think you should use this post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295746-conclave-ratings-rework-for-mods-calculations-and-conclave-limits/ This post may not be specifically for conclave but it does a good job on how to balance it.

 

I would like to add one. PvP badge. I would like to see a PvP related badge, maybe for doing some thing like getting 1k player kills. We could maybe have them crossed dual Skanas as the badge.

 

Okay so I'm gonna put my opinion on things now. :P

 

Balance Feedback

 

Rage+QT and Reflex Guard: I now have no opinion of Rage+QT at the moment since QT got a ninja nerf and Rage doesn't seem to work.

 

Ash is still unbalanced: I think Blade Storm need to have a counter and Shuriken should not home in, it should have a longer travel time, and do the damage that it did before.

 

Nyx absorb knockdown spam: I agree with the poster on how to fix that.

 

Forma Polarities not working: Yeah, I think the polarized slots should work how we polarized them.

 

Ammo Imbalance: I suppose ammo piles similar to conclave would be pretty nice.

 

Health Imbalance: This is a huge issues with how the new damage is. Right now there is very little variety in frames (and weapons), and the culprit is the new damage system.

 

Black/dark Energy Colors: This is problem with invisibility more than anything else. You need to be at least be slightly visible when using invisibility.

 

QoL/Improvements/Ideas

 

Allies Blocking each others rails: I have no opinion on this because I don't care who owns the rails.

 

Attackers rage quitting ending matches/Host problems: There are some pretty bad host problems due to PvP being peer to peer, and I only "rage quit" (putting in quotation because I don't really rage when I quit) when the other team is using cheap tactics. There needs to be less reason to rage quit before adding penalties.

 

Coptering/parkour mechanics in pvp: In terms of parkour, I would either like to see sling shot parkour back or a more fluid parkour system (maybe something similar to Overgrowth). Coptering weapons are kinda overused in PvP. We need a way to make non-coptering weapons useful (didn't but any examples because I don't have any ideas on how to go about it).

 

Melee stunlocking: Just needs to be removed.

 

Quitting Penalties: Again, we don't need these until we have less of a reason to quit.

 

Attacker Versus defender imbalance: Right now both sides have some imbalances. Attackers can start without defenders which means they can get levels before the defenders even join. Defenders however can spawn camp. We need a queue system so the game can't start without having all 8 players. Attackers however need a shield similar to the defending side, perhaps a bubble shields similar to Halo, but it last forever.

 

Being able to practice on conflict map: I would kinda like this, it would allow me to practice my parkour while waiting for (a)n opponent(s).

 

Unable to join as party: Again, a queue system could fix this.

 

Different spectre types: I'm not apposed to this.

 

Present loadouts: No. This removes all variety and just makes the game another bland shooter.

 

Add spectating: This would be nice. I wouldn't get much use out of it though but others might.

 

Conclave rating restriction in pvp: This would allow players to play with people with similar gear so I'm not apposed to this.

 

Ability spam: Yep, this is a problem. Maybe a 20 second cool down for 1st abilities, a 40 second cool down for 2nd abilities, a minute long cool down for 3rd abilities, and a 2 minute long cool down for 4th abilities.

 

Terminals immune to abilities: Yeah, there should be a small ring where your immune to explosives and powers.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Rakshal

[Cleesus]

I add the thread you posted under Qol and a little section for cosmetic gear. Thanks for the feedback i like that you went through and left little bits of feedback on each idea, I hope more people does so because it helps.

[Cleesus]

Anyone think we could use a power resist mod exclusively for pvp? like 45% chance to resist the effects of certain powers  and/or reduces the effect/damage of other powers like basitle/snow globe?

[Hueminator]

Anyone think we could use a power resist mod exclusively for pvp? like 45% chance to resist the effects of certain powers  and/or reduces the effect/damage of other powers like basitle/snow globe?

I think this would end up being like RG/R/QT.  I rather see frame power that could be used as counter one another.  

 

Ex:  Freeze works on hysteria.  Hallowed ground zone will reduce/cancel out the slow zone from snow globe or bastile. Sonar knock out invisibility effect.  Accelerant cancel freeze effect.  Sonic Boom blow away Turbulence.  Shield Polarized dispel Electric Shield.  Silence block casting Warcry.  Blessing can cure blind.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Hueminator

[Cleesus]

I think this would end up being like RG/R/QT.  I rather see frame power that could be used as soft counter one another.  

 

Ex:  Freeze works on hysteria.  Hallowed ground zone will reduce/cancel out the slow zone from snow globe or bastile.  Accelerant/Sonar will knock out invisibility effect.  Sonic boom blow away Turbulence.  

Hmm yea i agree i would like to see more abilities have built in counters like that.

[Cleesus]

Alrighty has anyone used Oberon after his recent buffs in pvp?

 

I finally got to test him now that his skills work properly and i have to say he is pretty useful in pvp now. Smite is a pretty good knockdown that does cool dmg and the extra projects definitely help. Its more or less a better verison of necros 1st skill.

 

Reckoning does good damage and an on damage aoe knockdown with blind helped set up many kills.

 

Renewal allowed me to help carry my team and keep them alive, only downside is people started rushing enemies like they were superman when they knew i was healing.

 

Hallowedground is iffy, it works great if you set it up right if you know a fight is coming up.

[Hueminator]

Put Hallowed Ground at the Terminals in DS conflict and the safezone of the defender side.  Players will jump but specter will run through it.  Painful when 3 of them stack I guess.

 

Renewal helped me survive blade storm (but you kinda screwed when they use another one and waste lots of energy since you stand there and just looking at ash torturing you.)

Edited September 6, 2014 by Hueminator

[Cleesus]

Put Hallowed Ground at the Terminals in DS conflict and the safezone of the defender side.  Players will jump but specter will run through it.  Painful when 3 of them stack I guess.

 

Renewal helped me survive blade storm (but you kinda screwed when they use another one and waste lots of energy since you stand there and just looking at ash torturing you.)

Yeah that hallow ground idea would be useful but it costs too much energy. I wish renewals energy drain in pvp was lower by default or remove the initial energy cost

[Auramaru]

My general feedback for weapons in Conclave PVP is:

 

With the overall nerf to damage (on shields to 50% of the previous damage and on health to 25% of the previous damage) is that the result was more devastating to newer players than what the developers intended.  

 

I believe - although it was never directly stated - that the nerf to damage in PVP was put in place so that it appealed to newer and older players alike.  However, that was not the case whatsoever.  

 

Older PVP players were frustrated with the damage nerf because it limited the variety of weapons to Marelok and Vectis and <insert 4+ forma requirement weapon here>.

 

Newer PVP players were frustrated with the even greater amount of damage required to kill the Conclave Veterans...

 

See, the problem doesn't lie in the fact that certain weapons are better than others... DE can nerf weapons all they want.

But there will always, always, ALWAYS be a MASSIVE gap between Hardcore/Regular Conclavers and the casual "Try-it-once-then-quit" Conclavers simply because the Hardcore/Regular Conclavers build their weapons (with 3+ forma, usually) SPECIFICALLY FOR THE "TENNO" armor type.

 

People don't seem to understand that you can't just bring any old weapon with any mod set into conclave.  It needs to be specific weapons with specific builds, hitting at a certain proc percentage with the correct proc.  Conclavers will mod and forma weapons many times to get the right effects, while casual players just don't revolve their gear around Conclave.

 

All in all, I have to say that the damage nerf limited the weapon variety to single-shot, high damage weapons, it increased the gap between newer and older players in terms of "ability to kill", and it caused a frustration-to-adapt that no one asked for.

 

Just my two cents on the general big problem(s) with "balance" in conclave.

[Hueminator]

Ahh cool hehe, but an on deman slow sounds good, how long does it last

Like any other proc, 6s.  Now I found specter with Glaxion are more dangerous than players, especially you got slow and there are 2-3 turrets pointing at you.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Hueminator

[Rakshal]

Oh I forgot one. The new damage system. Right now we have little variety in frame and weapon choices because of the new damage system. Hell, we have little choice in elemental damage because you need corrosive to compete where as before I could run viral on my weapons. Also the bleed and poison DoT got nerfed to oblivion. Bleed procs do literally nothing and poison does so little damage that it isn't even worth it.

[Cleesus]

My general feedback for weapons in Conclave PVP is:

 

With the overall nerf to damage (on shields to 50% of the previous damage and on health to 25% of the previous damage) is that the result was more devastating to newer players than what the developers intended.  

 

I believe - although it was never directly stated - that the nerf to damage in PVP was put in place so that it appealed to newer and older players alike.  However, that was not the case whatsoever.  

 

Older PVP players were frustrated with the damage nerf because it limited the variety of weapons to Marelok and Vectis and <insert 4+ forma requirement weapon here>.

 

Newer PVP players were frustrated with the even greater amount of damage required to kill the Conclave Veterans...

 

See, the problem doesn't lie in the fact that certain weapons are better than others... DE can nerf weapons all they want.

But there will always, always, ALWAYS be a MASSIVE gap between Hardcore/Regular Conclavers and the casual "Try-it-once-then-quit" Conclavers simply because the Hardcore/Regular Conclavers build their weapons (with 3+ forma, usually) SPECIFICALLY FOR THE "TENNO" armor type.

 

People don't seem to understand that you can't just bring any old weapon with any mod set into conclave.  It needs to be specific weapons with specific builds, hitting at a certain proc percentage with the correct proc.  Conclavers will mod and forma weapons many times to get the right effects, while casual players just don't revolve their gear around Conclave.

 

All in all, I have to say that the damage nerf limited the weapon variety to single-shot, high damage weapons, it increased the gap between newer and older players in terms of "ability to kill", and it caused a frustration-to-adapt that no one asked for.

 

Just my two cents on the general big problem(s) with "balance" in conclave.

 

Oh I forgot one. The new damage system. Right now we have little variety in frame and weapon choices because of the new damage system. Hell, we have little choice in elemental damage because you need corrosive to compete where as before I could run viral on my weapons. Also the bleed and poison DoT got nerfed to oblivion. Bleed procs do literally nothing and poison does so little damage that it isn't even worth it.

 

So how do you guys think it should be fixed? by removing the damage nerf or by some other method.

 

 

Like any other proc, 6s.  Now I found specter with Glaxion are more dangerous than players, especially you got slow and there are 2-3 turrets pointing at you.

 

Oh I bet that would be annoying

[Rakshal]

So how do you guys think it should be fixed? by removing the damage nerf or by some other method.

 

 

 

Oh I bet that would be annoying

I think they should bring the damage back to the way it was.

[Cleesus]

I think they should bring the damage back to the way it was.

But how does that solve the problem of having to use a limited set of optimal weapons?

 

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the main problem you guys are trying to get across is the fact that the health/shield dmg nerf limited weapon choices to a small set of gear that still performed well enough after the nerf. Before the nerf the same set of gear was used because people will almost always go for the best gear that gives them the biggest advantage.

 

 

Before nerf people would use Marelok and same more or less after the nerf. Removing the nerf wouldnt encourage pvpers to use weapons like the bolto.

 

Now I understand that the nerf made frames with more hp/armor even more powerful than they were before the nerf but that is a problem in itself that doesnt get fixed by reducing/boosting damage.

[Hueminator]

I think Corrosive is the "need", since only Valkyr have that much armor and little shield.  Viral I found works on pretty much all other frames.  I think the reason you found Corrosive work best because Shield takes 50% dmg and Health only takes 25%.  Therefore you found it easier to destroy shield and move on to health.  If both health and shield takes only 25% dmg then I think you would found corrosive ineffective.  It is Irony that "Tank" Frame such as Rhino and Frost have more shield than health, making Saryn the second most effective HP frames.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Hueminator

[Auramaru]

But how does that solve the problem of having to use a limited set of optimal weapons?

 

Correct me if im wrong but I believe the main problem you guys are trying to get across is the fact that the health/shield dmg nerf limited weapon choices to a small set of gear that still performed well enough after the nerf. Before the nerf the same set of gear was used because people will almost always go for the best gear that gives them the biggest advantage.

 

 

Before nerf people would use Marelok and same more or less after the nerf. Removing the nerf wouldnt encourage pvpers to use weapons like the bolto.

 

Now I understand that the nerf made frames with more hp/armor even more powerful than they were before the nerf but that is a problem in itself that doesnt get fixed by reducing/boosting damage.

Like I said, no matter what weapon nerfs/buffs DE does, PVP regulars will use the strongest, most powerful crap they can find and use NOTHING else.

 

However, the same thing can be said about other games like League of Legends... if you deviate from the meta, you'll get your @$$ handed to you 9/10 times.

 

Same thing with warframe PVP: try and run dual heat swords with a Strun, you will get SHREDDED. 

 

What is the fix? There is none.  You can't fix players or maps or damage... just make weapons generally more viable in a high-mobility, single-shot meta.

 

In other words, the developers can't apply their own S#&$ty meta to the players.  They need to apply their weapons to the meta that the players created.

To continue the analogy: you don't see Riot Games making a champion for League of Legends that completely stands out against the meta.  No, each champion has a preferable spot in the community-created metagame prior to release.

 

 

EDIT: I will elaborate further: The new Latron Wraith has a spot in the meta because it has high status along with high fire rate along with near-perfect accuracy.  

 

It's Latron Prime counter-part doesn't have the status or the fire rate, although slightly more accurate (it seems), to keep up with the Lat W. The Latron Prime additionally doesn't have a high enough crit chance for it to be considerred viable.  So an easy fix would be to increase the crit chance and crit multiplier of the Latron Prime so that it fits in with some list of viable "crit weapons" (Sybaris, Vectis, etc.)

Edited September 7, 2014 by Auramau

[Cleesus]

Like I said, no matter what weapon nerfs/buffs DE does, PVP regulars will use the strongest, most powerful crap they can find and use NOTHING else.

 

However, the same thing can be said about other games like League of Legends... if you deviate from the meta, you'll get your @$$ handed to you 9/10 times.

 

Same thing with warframe PVP: try and run dual heat swords with a Strun, you will get SHREDDED. 

 

What is the fix? There is none.  You can't fix players or maps or damage... just make weapons generally more viable in a high-mobility, single-shot meta.

 

In other words, the developers can't apply their own S#&$ty meta to the players.  They need to apply their weapons to the meta that the players created.

To continue the analogy: you don't see Riot Games making a champion for League of Legends that completely stands out against the meta.  No, each champion has a preferable spot in the community-created metagame prior to release.

 

 

EDIT: I will elaborate further: The new Latron Wraith has a spot in the meta because it has high status along with high fire rate along with near-perfect accuracy.  

 

It's Latron Prime counter-part doesn't have the status or the fire rate, although slightly more accurate (it seems), to keep up with the Lat W. The Latron Prime additionally doesn't have a high enough crit chance for it to be considerred viable.  So an easy fix would be to increase the crit chance and crit multiplier of the Latron Prime so that it fits in with some list of viable "crit weapons" (Sybaris, Vectis, etc.)

So you propose a way for weapons to have different stats in and out of PVE/PVE. Interesting idea and one that I agree needs to happen to some extent. A lot of weapons could use a pvp buff to make them stand a chance.

 

I dont agree that devs should or maybe better yet dont have a hand in the meta of pvp games. Players make the meta based on what they are given and not the other way around most of the time. Balance/new gear shakes up and makes players change the meta. So dev cant make changes to just fit stuff in the the current meta, but make changes to work towards balance which will of course change the meta(But of course changes should be made with the current meta in mind).