Vigor Please

[NinjaZeku]

 

As it is, Vigor's effect seems too low to be worth using to me,

and not least for a Nightmare Mod, that's kind of a shame.

 

[if you disagree / have awesome Vigor builds, please share.]

 

Would it be too much if it had 10 ranks, for a max boost of 2x 220%,

to mirror the 1x 440% of Redirection / Vitality?

 

[inb4 Primed Vigor ... which I wouldn't mind being a thing, heh,

but it'd make regular Vigor drops from Nightmare missions even worse so dunno.]

 

Or, what if it gave a straight, non-% boost,

to help below-100 base Shields and / or Health 'Frames?

 

[shut up Zephyr no one likes you.]

 

OCD me would like a nice even 200 max boost, so 33.3 Health per rank,

but I guess e.g. 25 per rank for 150 max also doesn't look too wrong :P

[AdunSaveMe]

Does it increase base health and shields? Because that's probably why it feels underwhelming.

 

If it had a lower % increase but applied after shields & hp (as in, not base amounts) I think it'd be a lot handier.

[PerishedFraud]

just wait for primed vigor. It WILL come out.

[YBD215]

If you look at the stats of Vigor, it gives a total of 220% increase for the cost. but as stated by AdunSaveMe It is split between health and shields so it feels meh

[Tatersail]

its an ADDITION, your thinking instead of.

 

its not 440% hp or 220% total, its 560% health ROAR!!!

 

I personally think all Health and shields in this game scale out too quickly, making them too strong at low levels, and pointless any any high levels, since things 1 shot regardless.

 

 

For people who use more than 1 defensive mod, I can understand it as it stacks on.

 

but really your complaining about vigor, where there are so many other "special mods" out there, like Critical delay or Warm Coat.

Warm coat would take up a mod slot, 9 points and gives you 12% more shields, on the off chance you get an ice level!

[Archangelzz]

It actually gives a 240% boost together, but it seems underwhelming because it is plit down the middle between health and shields, my guess is a primed version will come out at some point.

[KingIzek]

Heh heh heh.... I see what you did with the thread title....

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

[shut up Zephyr no one likes you.]

 

Shut up NinjaZeku no one likes you.

 

Zephyr being intentionally ignored by DE is a sad but true fact. You're right, but I just had to say that. This highlights a massive problem with the game.

[rockscl]

the flat bonus sounds good, also it would be interesting to have flat armor and energy mods

[Renkai141]

http://goo.gl/7X6ywc

Vigor build ayy.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Pre-overshields I used to slot Vigor for Paralysis shield Strength builds...using Sentinel Guardian or Raksa Protect to keep shields at max for full damage.

Currently I almost never use Vigor, because there is no room for an extraneousod as an Augment occupy's the slot.

(Also if I could only take 1 defensive mod it would be Vitality, because Life-Strike and having some health is better than none and that is after I most likely slotted Quick-Thinking....)

Before Life-Strike: Vigor was common to see in builds, but that was pre-GU13 and melee 2.0. Back then Shield builds were the norm aside from Valkyr.

[RealPandemonium]

Never ask for a rank 10 mod.  Balancing a mod's power with grind is abhorrent and increases the grind while also unbalancing the game with false progression.  Increasing Vigor to 200/200 would make it more competitive with augments and QT+Flow.  

[taiiat]

200%/200% would be alright i suppose.

a flat value increase is also possible, but note that Redirection or Vitality must still be a larger increase than Vigor's boost. due to investment and whatnot.

furthermore, this is definitely one of those really weird Dual Stat / Nightmare Mods that don't follow the norm. most are two stats at ~60% the power of the dedicated versions. but quite a few others and Vigor, are nowhere near that mark.

because it's Health & Shields however, 200%/200% is sufficient and gives a large enough boost to consider using depending on Playstyle.

-snip-

i hope you're capable of realizing the satire in that one liner remark that you're harping over.

Edit:

Vigor build ayy.

but Vitality instead of Vigor would still protect you better with the current stats of it. getting a ~16% increase in your Shields is not particularly significant when you could more than double your Health for a larger buffer against Damage. Edited May 1, 2015 by taiiat

[(PSN)MrNishi]

200%/200% would be alright i suppose.

a flat value increase is also possible, but note that Redirection or Vitality must still be a larger increase than Vigor's boost. due to investment and whatnot.

furthermore, this is definitely one of those really weird Dual Stat / Nightmare Mods that don't follow the norm. most are two stats at ~60% the power of the dedicated versions. but quite a few others and Vigor, are nowhere near that mark.

because it's Health & Shields however, 200%/200% is sufficient and gives a large enough boost to consider using depending on Playstyle.

What if the boost was 2/3 matching 60% Damage dual-stat mod in comparison to pure 90% damage?

2/3 of 440 is 293-ish let's round it down to 290.

So Vigor would be 290% Shields and 290% Health

That sounds better....

[RealPandemonium]

but Vitality instead of Vigor would still protect you better with the current stats of it. getting a ~16% increase in your Shields is not particularly significant when you could more than double your Health for a larger buffer against Damage.

Stacking shields used to be good because of Guardian doubling them once every 30 seconds, but now enemies do so much damage (accuracy increase and higher level caps) that it doesn't really matter anymore.  Also Life Strike became a thing.  

[aerosoul1337]

just wait for primed vigor. It WILL come out.

 

Not worth it at all...

[taiiat]

0.666666 instead of 0.6

i'm trying to avoid Statcrepe.

having a survivability Mod that high is encroaching into Statcrepe territory.

Edited May 1, 2015 by taiiat

[RealPandemonium]

i'm trying to avoid Statcrepe.

having a survivability Mod that high is encroaching into Statcrepe territory.

Doesn't even matter since enemy scaling is so screwy now that we need even bigger numbers if we want to keep the ratios that we had when level 30-40 was the standard for lategame enemies.  They have to fix that before they can fix mods in a meaningful way.  

[taiiat]

we need even bigger numbers

rather than piling more statcrepe on Players, we could actually address the source of the problem. this sounds like a better solution to me. the only solution, infact.

games that try to deal with 'scaling problems' by throwing more numbers at them always end up collapsing under their own weight and everything falls apart because the numbers got too big to handle anymore.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

i'm trying to avoid Statcrepe.

having a survivability Mod that high is encroaching into Statcrepe territory.

Why change my quote?

440*.6 =294

440*.66666=293.33333

I said it was 293-ish in my quote.

Then I said round it down to 290.

How did I imply that the math for 2/3rds would be a flat 60%???

As for Statcrepe isn't that what Prime Flow and Quick-Thinking fall under?

[taiiat]

terrible math

440 * 0.6 == 264

440 * 0.66666 == 293.33304

and note that the 200/200 i chose is 45.4545%.

60% is a maybe perhaps possibly - 66.6666% is not.

if 45.4545% doesn't feel like enough to make it a competitive choice, then 220/220, which is 50%.

As for Statcrepe isn't that what Prime Flow and Quick-Thinking fall under?

yes and no.

it's more survivability for most Warframes than basic Survivability Mods - but your sacrifice there is that your Energy availability is directly tied to your Survival. if you start getting rekt you also can't cast Abilities.

specializing in certain things and getting more of something but trading off something else - is called balance.

binding Health, Shield, and Energy Restores to W / Thumbstick forwards is not.

[RealPandemonium]

 

we need even bigger numbers

rather than piling more statcrepe on Players, we could actually address the source of the problem. this sounds like a better solution to me. the only solution, infact.

games that try to deal with 'scaling problems' by throwing more numbers at them always end up collapsing under their own weight and everything falls apart because the numbers got too big to handle anymore.

 

The problem is that weapon powercreep and the proliferation of corrupted mods and the knowledge of how to exploit them have made DE make the game scale to unbalanced numbers.  Defensive statcreep would actually be a fair bandaid fix for this to some extent, but the better, more sustainable option would be to tone everything down to more reasonable levels.  

 

You've read enough of my posts to know that I of all people wouldn't support powercreep.  

[(PSN)MrNishi]

What if the boost was 2/3 matching 60% Damage dual-stat mod in comparison to pure 90% damage?

2/3 of 440 is 293-ish let's round it down to 290.

So Vigor would be 290% Shields and 290% Health

That sounds better....

  

i'm trying to avoid Statcrepe.

having a survivability Mod that high is encroaching into Statcrepe territory.

440 * 0.6 == 264

440 * 0.66666 == 293.33304

and note that the 200/200 i chose is 45.4545%.

60% is a maybe perhaps possibly - 66.6666% is not.

if 45.4545% doesn't feel like enough to make it a competitive choice, then 220/220, which is 50%.

yes and no.

it's more survivability for most Warframes than basic Survivability Mods - but your sacrifice there is that your Energy availability is directly tied to your Survival. if you start getting rekt you also can't cast Abilities.

specializing in certain things and getting more of something but trading off something else - is called balance.

binding Health, Shield, and Energy Restores to W / Thumbstick forwards is not.

So 60/90 is 60%?

I was under the impression it would be 2/3rds.

I said 2/3rds like how the (60% damge on Dual-stat mods) are in comparison to the 90% elemental damage mods.

I never said 2/3rds was 60%.

Yes I did do bad math for my 440*.6

But (440*2)/3 is not 293.333304

I don't understand why 2/3rds (66.6666666666%) is not feasible for defensive mods when Offensive weapon mods that are dual-stat are 2/3rds damage being 60% instead of 90% for most dual-stat damage mods in comparison to pure damage mods.

-I thought we were trying to bring balance between our Health Survivability and our much more powerful weapons.

Most of the time weapon s seem to be able to still kill much longer than a Tenno can stay alive to kill enemies.

I suppose Vigor having a matching 2/3rds like a dual stat event weapon mod is too much.

[taiiat]

I don't understand why 2/3rds (66.6666666666%) is not feasible for defensive mods when Offensive weapon mods that are dual-stat are 2/3rds damage being 60% instead of 90% for most dual-stat damage mods in comparison to pure damage mods.

Weapons are way out of hand with Damage in the first place. 2/3 is okay for the time being for Damage Mods because of how out of hand all of the Damage is already.

the problem there isn't that ratio itself, but again, that the overall numbers are so way out of hand. Warframes certainly don't get 55-110x Multipliers to their stats, so why do Weapons get multipliers so ridiculous?

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Weapons are way out of hand with Damage in the first place. 2/3 is okay for the time being for Damage Mods because of how out of hand all of the Damage is already.

the problem there isn't that ratio itself, but again, that the overall numbers are so way out of hand. Warframes certainly don't get 55-110x Multipliers to their stats, so why do Weapons get multipliers so ridiculous?

I fully agree with that, I've never understood why weapons to power damage was disproportionate.

Has me nonplussed.