Umbral Polarity?

[Agatorion]

2 Month brake and i am back.
Still nothing done or info on Umbral Polarities?

[GnarlsDarkley]

What infos do you want?

We neither have "The new War" nor the Tau System nor any new Umbra related content

 

If you are ALSO (like the hundred other threads) asking about being able to forma them, DE said they will not give us this possibilty (yet)

Edited September 2, 2018 by GnarlsDarkley

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

Yeah sadly no option to forma them yet, I don't see why you would introduce mods like this that are only worthwhile when used together, then punish players for using them, doesn't make any sense, if they're too powerful then why add them at all?

[Zi-Sui]

What? You're saying there's no point having them on tank frames to make them even tankier, or on Frost and Volt? There is, max speed beefy Volt and higher value bubble on beefier Frost. And tank frames that can facetank 10 level 90+ enemies at once. It limits the build, can't fit stuff like Enemy Sense which is useful at the index, but it's worth it.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

Umbral Mods aren't designed to be used freely. They are designed to be used primarily for the new "Umbra" line of Warframes and weapons. They give exceptional Prime-like buffs, at the cost of only being economically viable on Umbras.

Really the only balanced way around this is to either introduce a sort of "Umbra Forma" that is rarer than regular Forma, or simply ask DE to release more viable Primed Mods.

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

I don't like the idea "Umbra line"

There doesn't need to be a 3rd variant of anymore frames until all the warframes are in good standing and without the need of a rework.

(I'm looking at you Nehza, Vauban and Wukong)

Edited September 2, 2018 by (XB1)GhostofaMessiah

[rapt0rman]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Equinox21697 said:

Yeah sadly no option to forma them yet, I don't see why you would introduce mods like this that are only worthwhile when used together, then punish players for using them, doesn't make any sense, if they're too powerful then why add them at all?

There's not really anything punishing about it, each one of them still has stats above their base version when used alone, and Sacrificial Pressure being slightly weaker then Primed Pressure Point isn't the end of the world either.

It's also totally possible to fit them on many builds if you just use your forma wisely.

They're just designed to be optimal on umbral frames, they don't reward you outright for using them on non-umbral frames, but that isn't the same thing as punishing.

Whoops, correction: Sacrificial Pressure by itself is weaker than regular Pressure Point.

Edited September 2, 2018 by rapt0rman

[(PSN)OriginalEquinox]

7 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

There's not really anything punishing about it, each one of them still has stats above their base version when used alone, and Sacrificial Pressure being slightly weaker then Primed Pressure Point isn't the end of the world either.

It's also totally possible to fit them on many builds if you just use your forma wisely.

They're just designed to be optimal on umbral frames, they don't reward you outright for using them on non-umbral frames, but that isn't the same thing as punishing.

Whoops, correction: Sacrificial Pressure by itself is weaker than regular Pressure Point.

By punishing I mean you have to leave a slot or two empty if you want to use those mods which if you spent plat on exilus adapters and such can sting a teeny tiny bit. Right now I use them on Rhino, Trinity and Valkyr only though because I'm all out of forma and lazy to farm more lol

[Agatorion]

On 2018-09-02 at 9:57 PM, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Umbral Mods aren't designed to be used freely. They are designed to be used primarily for the new "Umbra" line of Warframes and weapons. They give exceptional Prime-like buffs, at the cost of only being economically viable on Umbras.

Really the only balanced way around this is to either introduce a sort of "Umbra Forma" that is rarer than regular Forma, or simply ask DE to release more viable Primed Mods.

If they wanted it to be umbra exclusive why have they included it to normal frames.

Also i do agree on rare umbral forma. I would agree if it was obtainable once a week like maro and ayatan.

[Agatorion]

On 2018-09-03 at 1:10 AM, rapt0rman said:

There's not really anything punishing about it, each one of them still has stats above their base version when used alone, and Sacrificial Pressure being slightly weaker then Primed Pressure Point isn't the end of the world either.

It's also totally possible to fit them on many builds if you just use your forma wisely.

They're just designed to be optimal on umbral frames, they don't reward you outright for using them on non-umbral frames, but that isn't the same thing as punishing.

Whoops, correction: Sacrificial Pressure by itself is weaker than regular Pressure Point.

You have to specificaly polorize to use a build you want to. So ye punishing on flexability.

Also you can not remove umbral polarities from umbral exc as it can not be restored, yet again punishing.

[Agatorion]

On 2018-09-02 at 10:38 AM, GnarlsDarkley said:

What infos do you want?

We neither have "The new War" nor the Tau System nor any new Umbra related content

 

If you are ALSO (like the hundred other threads) asking about being able to forma them, DE said they will not give us this possibilty (yet)

ALSO means people want it. And i do believe giving what a lot of people ask for is not that CRAZY!

I need any info.

We get tona of teasers and info on new content like updated UI, new warframe, Fortuna info, but not a single word on umbral polarities.

You mentioned yet. Where did you find that info.

[Nephalem]

You all miss the point of the mods and quest itself,its not called The Sacrefice for nothing. Im actualy glad what they did with the umbra mods even tho i would have liked a new type of resource to upgrade them.

[Veridian]

22 minutes ago, Agatorion said:

ALSO means people want it. And i do believe giving what a lot of people ask for is not that CRAZY!

I need any info. 

We get tona of teasers and info on new content like updated UI, new warframe, Fortuna info, but not a single word on umbral polarities.

You mentioned yet. Where did you find that info.

Everybody want everything, people wanting the polarity doesn't validate your point.

The most obvious reason not to get the polarity is simple. If they do it, they may as well remove 3 mod slots and just add the bonuses of the umbra mods, since there wouldn't be a single frame that wouldn't be equipped with them and this is bad for the game in general.

Even worse, you'll have frames like Trinity running Umbral Fiber, just because of the set bonus...

Edited September 4, 2018 by Ver1dian

[(PSN)deadbeef001]

17 minutes ago, Nephalem said:

You all miss the point of the mods and quest itself,its not called The Sacrefice for nothing. Im actualy glad what they did with the umbra mods even tho i would have liked a new type of resource to upgrade them.

^^^

This guy gets it..

[Agatorion]

30 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Everybody want everything, people wanting the polarity doesn't validate your point.

The most obvious reason not to get the polarity is simple. If they do it, they may as well remove 3 mod slots and just add the bonuses of the umbra mods, since there wouldn't be a single frame that wouldn't be equipped with them and this is bad for the game in general.

Even worse, you'll have frames like Trinity running Umbral Fiber, just because of the set bonus...

You can say the same about prime mods.

If there is a better mod why not use it?

Also i doubt people would use umbral fiber on warframes with low armor. 2 mods already give you more than their normal counter part and iatead of those extra 15~20% she woyld probably use blind rage or something. Feels like you build you stuff to have a collection not most efficiency.

Example is the mod that enchances crit, but i doubt everyone use full set of those mods.

So it comes down to how people build. And i build for effectivnes and viability.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

On 2018-09-02 at 11:05 PM, BoarWarrior said:

What? You're saying there's no point having them on tank frames to make them even tankier, or on Frost and Volt? There is, max speed beefy Volt and higher value bubble on beefier Frost. And tank frames that can facetank 10 level 90+ enemies at once. It limits the build, can't fit stuff like Enemy Sense which is useful at the index, but it's worth it.

Higher value bubble lol. If you're just doing Sortie level enemies you don't need Umbral intensify to have a strong enough globe. If you're going beyond that, say 100 waves of defense, then you don't want any power strength, only efficiency matters.

[Veridian]

4 minutes ago, Agatorion said:

You can say the same about prime mods.

If there is a better mod why not use it?

Also i doubt people would use umbral fiber on warframes with low armor. 2 mods already give you more than their normal counter part and iatead of those extra 15~20% she woyld probably use blind rage or something. Feels like you build you stuff to have a collection not most efficiency.

Example is the mod that enchances crit, but i doubt everyone use full set of those mods.

So it comes down to how people build. And i build for effectivnes and viability.

No you can't say the same about prime mods, neither continuity nor flow are used on every single frame and vigor is no better.

Because if they let you use it, you'll get to the situation you have with weapons, a crit and a status build with maybe 1, max 2 mod difference. MAIN REASON. BAD.

People will, because they'll see that others do it and follow suit, often without much thought into it. As they do in every other game.

Your almighty efficiency boils down to sticking umbral mods in everything? Efficiency varies in builds, some benefit from umbral mods, while others would see a bigger loss than gain. I suppose you have Sacrificial pressure on every melee because its an umbra mod?

You're comparing a flat 30% stat increase to a condition gated marginal bonus?

You seem to be the only person who does that in your opinion? What else is there to build for?

[-picklesthedrummer]

On 2018-09-02 at 2:48 PM, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

I don't like the idea "Umbra line"

There doesn't need to be a 3rd variant of anymore frames until all the warframes are in good standing and without the need of a rework.

(I'm looking at you Nehza, Vauban and Wukong)

You forgot nyx

[Zi-Sui]

Why do you even want umbral forma or such? To make the game even easier? Take that to everyone who wants harder content to the game, you find plenty of them, especially veterans but new players like me too.

As said before, the name of the quest is SACRIFICE. Let that sink in. It's a SACRIFICE to use umbral mods on non-umbra frames, sacrifice of 1-2 mods and inflexible formaing. It wouldn't be a sacrifice if you had umbral forma, just grind. It wouldn't be sacrifice if only umbra could use them, then it would just be umbra.

Do you think DE did it like this so they could later change it because some people asked? I think it was calculated from them, and why not?

Umbral mods are a big thing, I'd use them even on Limbo if I had umbral forma. Hell, the only frame I might not use them is Loki. I'm glad the DE didn't make the same mistake as with rivens and didn't make power creep worse, not much at least.

The way umbral mods work now is perfect, people can have their fun and forma around it on other frames too, without making the power creep as bad as it would be with umbral forma. Every Rhino in the index with enough grinding or money behind them would have both umbral mods maxed and enemy sense on top of the tanking mods. It would make index even easier than it already is, and a lot of people would whine about how there used to be at least a hint of challenge before the umbral forma. Same with other game modes.

Edited September 4, 2018 by BoarWarrior

[Agatorion]

23 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

No you can't say the same about prime mods, neither continuity nor flow are used on every single frame and vigor is no better.

Because if they let you use it, you'll get to the situation you have with weapons, a crit and a status build with maybe 1, max 2 mod difference. MAIN REASON. BAD.

People will, because they'll see that others do it and follow suit, often without much thought into it. As they do in every other game.

Your almighty efficiency boils down to sticking umbral mods in everything? Efficiency varies in builds, some benefit from umbral mods, while others would see a bigger loss than gain. I suppose you have Sacrificial pressure on every melee because its an umbra mod?

You're comparing a flat 30% stat increase to a condition gated marginal bonus?

You seem to be the only person who does that in your opinion? What else is there to build for?

Why would eveyone do the same they see others do?

Will you jump from a bridge if everyone starts to?

And you just said the opposite of what you said before. Not everyone uses prime flow, same applies to umbral fiber. Using umbral fiber on a frame with 15 armor.

[Veridian]

57 minutes ago, Agatorion said:

Why would eveyone do the same they see others do?

Will you jump from a bridge if everyone starts to?

And you just said the opposite of what you said before. Not everyone uses prime flow, same applies to umbral fiber. Using umbral fiber on a frame with 15 armor.

Because they do, your second question exists because of that fact.

Umbral fiber was an example of how inefficient builds will exist, because people saw "set bonus" and remembered their diablo 2 days or saw someone else using it on a different frame stating "best mods".

Point is, if the polarity goes out of Umbra, 90% of frames will be stuck with all 3 and the other 10 with at least 2 and that's nothing like primed mods. You also get less diversity, which is bad for the game.

Moreover, your request is not based on your desire for efficiency, it's because you want more power. It would be the same as me saying I want Unairu wisp to be made unbound, so I can stack it with Void Strike and be more efficient.

In conclusion, you don't need more power creep and that's what the polarity will produce. Currently its more of a trade, less general power, for more emphasized strengths and that's fine as it is, after all, what fun will it be if there's only one viable build.