Banshee is pretty much... dead. Rework priority?

[-Gwyndolin]

Well as you can see, Banshee "rework" did not achieve its goal. Far from it. But the cast-forget resonating quake idea was good, it fit the playstyle so well. However.

It made the ability basicly useless. Why?

 

-The damage is so mediocre, 25 energy for 500 damage to the enemy who stands 10 meters away? No thanks, this can be done much more better with many other warframes.

-Maybe it was designed to be a crowd control ability? Still, this can be done much more better with many other warframes.

-Alright, what if we don't spam it and use it as a tactical- no this doesn't work. Nope. This is the fourth ability of a warframe. The case cannot be this bad.

 

Moving on to other abilities...

Her first is just never being used. I feel like I press "press this button to waste energy and knock down enemies. Yay, fun!" button all the time. This is just sad.

 

Sonar however. The ability people rely on and defend so much. Her bread and butter, the reason she exists for. Embrace your fate darling for your destiny is to spam this as hard as you can, whenever you can.

This ability is probably why you chose to play banshee. You want to see big numbers that can satiate you, and you are willing to die in this progress. Many times. Only to realize there was a safer & better way to achieve that. This can be done with many other warframes. However not so efficient.

 

Third ability. Silence, crowd control ability. The button you press when you really don't wanna get one shot from god knows where.

This ability and sonar are the only things a banshee player can rely on. Other than this? Nothing. You are pretty much forced to play this way, anything you tried, anything you wanted to do other than this has failed. Many times. This is the best way to play banshee, it seems. No augment or miracle can save you from this. Only empower it.

In sum, banshee is just worthless and overwritten by many other characters. 

Volt's fourth is the new banshee resonating quake in disguise. I want to picture this exactly in your mind:

Banshee fourth: Some sort of destructive scream. Imagine volt casting discharge with his range and strength build. Enemies act just same but instead of electricity, there are scream sounds you can barely hear. You deal massive damage over time, enemies are performing the electric proc animation and some of them performing the animation you see when you cast silence upon them. After a few seconds, all affected enemies collapse and there is nothing but silence. You used all of your energy in that while, channeling the scream. As the result you got a blissful silence. And a lot of affinity indeed!

This is my idea of the new banshee fourth, I don't know what you think of it but I would most definitely love doing that and dedicating an entire build for that. But what we got now is just a low-level map cleaner type of ability that basicly any other AoE ability can perform.

 

Thanks for reading and the attention. I'd love to see what others think about banshee's current boring state. Hope you have a great day, and see you again when I recklessly shame another underpowered warframe / weapon. Take care. <3 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by -Gwyndolin

[Aisu9]

Nyx first, she here since first hours of the game, and she doesn't receive any rework

[LSG501]

While I can't say I play my banshee as much as I used to there are plenty of options that aren't just about 'resonating quake'....now don't get me wrong, I feel RQ change was a nerf and at the very least needs to last longer but it doesn't mean banshee is useless.

[-Gwyndolin]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

there are plenty of options that aren't just about 'resonating quake'...

 They need to synergize with banshee's other abilities Her kit is way too limited, and it feels raher lacking :(

[Robotriso]

il y a 48 minutes, -Gwyndolin a dit :

Banshee fourth: Some sort of destructive scream. Imagine volt casting discharge with his range and strength build. Enemies act just same but instead of electricity, there are scream sounds you can barely hear. You deal massive damage over time, enemies are performing the electric proc animation and some of them performing the animation you see when you cast silence upon them. After a few seconds, all affected enemies collapse and there is nothing but silence. You used all of your energy in that while, channeling the scream. As the result you got a blissful silence. And a lot of affinity indeed!

Scream : ennemies affected by silence will receive damage and stun for a short duration (panic state refresh). Ennemies not affected by silence will be more agressive / run faster and be mark; if they run inside the silence area the mark will deal additional damage and be knockdown for a longer duration. The energy cost should be high enough to avoid people just bullet jumping with it.

[DrBorris]

Excuse me for just copy-pasting an old response, but when you look at Banshee you have to use a different lens than other Warframes.

 

Banshee is one of if not the best designed frame in the game. She, rather than being designed around a gimmick or theme, is designed around a style of play. She doesn't need forced in synergy like some other frames because all of her abilities naturally synergize as they all encourage the same thing, mid-long ranged gun-play. Let me rephrase that, she doesn't "encourage" mid-long ranged gun-play, she rewards it. She does not need some ability to do the work for you (cough*Mesa*cough), she takes what skill you have and gives you a reward for it along with further enabling you to maintain her playstyle.

Sonic Boom: What is the last thing you want as a mid-long range fighter? Someone in your face. Here comes Sonic Boom, in a quick action you can send any enemies that got past your initial line of defense (will get to that later) back to your optimal range.

Sonar: This is the reward for the effort, can you aim? Then everything is dead. Banshee does not do the aiming or shooting for you, she gives you the tools to make your ability to aim much (much) more potent.

Silence: This is honestly what ties together her main defense, especially when combined with Sonar. This pauses all enemies at what is, IMO, a perfect mid range for you to brutally murder. Due to Sonar, you should be able to rapidly take out enemies before their stun ends. People complain about Banshee's defense, but according to Banshee there is no need for a defense when everything is dead before it can get to you. Sure, the "Silence" part of silence is pretty useless, but the stun more than makes it a worthwhile ability.

Sound Quake: Sometimes sh!t hits the fan, and that is when you press 4. In the case that you are overrun by enemies, you can throw a temper tantrum and make everyone stop (... hammer time). Especially with a frame where her ability to keep tabs on the enemy is directly correlated to your skill, there needs to be something to do when you fail. Sound Quake takes you out of the fight, but in a way that is a punishment for failing your primary objective. It also does serve as a get out of jail free card in co-op as pretty much any competent team mate should be able to clean up the stunned enemies.

Ya know why people don't like Banshee? Because she is very different to play. Most if not all other frames play for you in some way, but Banshee is completely dependent on your playing. This isn't as much a "git-gud" as playing Banshee is not that hard, it is just that playing Banshee is so different from playing other frames. When I play as Banshee, I, the player, feel as though I am in more control over what is going on more so than any other frame. Sometimes when I play other frames I get a disconnect, like the frame is what is really in control rather than me.

Edited September 13, 2018 by DrBorris

[Leqesai]

Banshee is dead?

wut....

Sonar/Silence build is still viable, is it not?

Resonating soundquake sure as HECK is still viable. 

I just don't see her the same way as you do... I really like Banshee and she doesn't have any problem with 99% of the game's content. Sure she might falloff with the harder stuff but most frames do (and should). That's sort of the point of scaling... But unlike most other frames banshee actually has a fairly reliable way to stay relevant quite awhile. Sonar helps the whole team, as well. 

 

 

 

 

[SixDimensions]

Banshee is far from dead. I use her in all kinds of missions  at high level content no problem.  Sure I mostly use Sonar and Silence but her Scream is good for quick easy crowd control and Resonating Quick can lock down an area and do good damage.  I think your view on Sonar is a bit limited, especially with the augment.  A build focused on duration and range is great.  The weak spots created by Sonar can overlap, multiplying the damage.

[SillyPotatoes]

While i do agree with the OP about Banshee being "dead" ,it is not for his reasons,but DrBorris'es . The Warframe is Hard to play. To survive high level mobs efficiently,you have to do some mechanical bits which have a pretty high ceiling : Have you ever gone in with Silence,couldn't quite kill the lvl 120+ Heavy Gunner and,instead of sitting and shooting and praying you don't die , you went in Operator ,dashed backwards ,went into Banshee mode ,went Operator ,dashed back in just so you could re-apply the 2 second Stun ? The reason you and I don't see many Banshees out there except I and perhaps you (that's more than 95% of the games ,she's up there with Mag and Nyx ) is because you can just play Volt and press 4 to win. It is much easier. 

   The one thing I strongly agree with the OP is that Banshee needs a new ultimate . I never use it , it costs too much energy and it doesn't fit the playstyle . You're supposed to be fast,elusive and deadly and the ultimate makes you a sitting duck. You will die from 2 bullets no matter the build.

Cheers !

[Helljack84]

Not dead, just in a not that great spot. 

Her first ability is garbage. Quick CC because enemies are close? Nope, the slight delay will kill you 100% guaranteed. Better just kill the enemies or use melee. Faster, stronger and doesn't cost energy. The augment is a waste of space.

Her 2 is great but largely redundant. Outside of very long endless runs you'll never meet any enemies where you need the damage buff. Early or midgame squads might benefit more but players won't have the mods to make it work. Also you could just pick Rhino/Nova/Octavia...you probably get the point.

Paperlike armor, above average speed and her 3 want you to move around, no problem here. 

So...we have this mobile, squishy, gunplay frame...with a channeled ultimate that locks you into place. Worse yet, it locks everyone into place. The only reason for this ability to exist seems to be spreading misery. Either get rid of it or run a quick check at mission start, if damage/efficiency/range are good give autowin or a timer that runs down and shows "you win" after a set amount of time.

 

[felixsylvaris]

We dont hear too much about Banshee, but she is not that bad, there is just not much content for her to shine, since for your everyday missions you need tanky nuker (like Excalibur), and some support buffer cc is just not needed unless you go endless missions, or some specific farm.

I have some problems with Soundquake One thing is aesthetic, that it is drop the bass, not a scream. It is lost of opportunity, that Banshees scream or wail, howl, that is a signature move. The other thing is that it roots us in place, without godlike damage. I would rather take some form of sound miasma (from Saryn)  as base and then augment to make it channel root. Since for normal content shorter scream is better, but i may need sustain quake for some special modes.

Augment tax is not fun.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Lmao, still one of the most mentioned frames cause of how "strong" she is.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

Heh, as has been said before on this thread, Banshee is incredibly powerful in potential.

She has no actual direct 'damage' aside from the damage over time that her Quake puts out (and let me tell you, I think that should be redesigned, yeah, but lots of frames have an ability that's less useful than their others, so it can wait), but the damage Banshee is capable of dealing is certifiably insane.

Banshee is a Weapons Platform that creates incredible openings for damage. If you're into Primary and Secondary weapons, then grab a precision weapon, like a hitscan rifle or a pistol, and let's talk about Sonar. As far as damage buffs go, being able to use just 2 Forma build to throw on Intensify, Augur Secrets, Power Drift and Transient Fortitude to get you to 224% Power Strength (balance that with Vitality, Primed Continuity, Augur Message, Streamline and Stretch for your other stats) means you get 1120% damage for hitting a Sonar target, and you can even add Growing Power to that to make it 1245% damage boosting.

Better than that, if you re-cast it a few times, then you don't even have to aim, you can even overlap Sonar spots to multiply the damage again, so that 12.45x multiplier on your damage becomes a 155x multiplier, meaning if you would normally deal around 1000 damage in a single shot, a Sonar Target could deal 12,450 damage for just one, or if you overlapped them, you would hit for 155,000 damage instead.

This simple fact alone makes Banshee, in potential, the most damage buffing capable frame in the game. If you play her right.

And what if you like Melee? Well then fine, grab your best and let's talk about Silence.

Silence is, at first glance, not amazing. But it does something on its outside edge that's incredibly rare in this game. It provides a zone that can apply a complete 'unaware state' stagger instantly on contact, and re-apply it as many times as you want simply by walking towards and away from the enemy.

This mechanic is the most amazing Melee booster in the world. Grab a crit-scaling status weapon, one that you know you can kill with quickly and easily the moment you get the multiplier going, and mod Silence for Neutral or a little lower Range. 20m is the perfect distance to see an enemy, cause the stagger, and engage them in the time it takes them to recover.

Your first hit on that staggering enemy will always be multiplied by the Stealth Multiplier, which is a very simple function, it multiplies your hit by up to 8x depending on the level of your melee weapon, with a rank 30 melee weapon dealing that full 8x damage on the first hit.

What this means, until DE decides to introduce Melee 3.0 as they're planning, is that Banshee is dealing 8x damage from the moment she casts Silence... if you play her right.

Thanks to this ability, and the way it instantly staggers enemies without her having to press the button (just run into range), Banshee is able to survive up to insane levels of the game anyway, but conbined with actual scaling damage from the Melee Combo Counter, she can continue to kill enemies at those levels too.

Again, in potential, if you play Banshee right, she has the capability to deal the most incredible damage without even taking a hit in exchange herself.

And that's not even getting into the very simple fact that ragdolling enemies off cliffs with her 1 is an insta-kill at any level.

So yeah.

Soundquake needs a redesign. It's not exactly a good ability because it takes a highly mobile frame, with the reliance on casting, recasting and staying active, and drops her prone in the middle of the map to try and get enemies out of her face. It doesn't affect any enemy that can fly (Ospreys get more and more of a threat as you scale up the levels, like Infested Gas clouds and Corpus Sapping Grenades) and it actually counters itself with its own status effects.

Currently it deals Impact and Blast damage, which means that it should ragdoll enemies too, but since the Stagger animation takes priority over the ragdoll... enemies just stand around flinching. Kind of stupid.

Soundquake should probably be an area clearing pulse, like the animation from her Prime Trailer, where each pulse is a wave of damage (not much, keep it the same DPS as the current, let's not break things by re-introducing the old Resonating Quake) but also displaces enemies away from her whether they're flying or not. It changes the effect from little pings of damage that stagger enemies a little way, to a wave every second that takes each enemy away from her by a short distance with each impact, that will actually give players both breathing room and a rhythm to be able to judge when to stop casting.

But Banshee herself? With her 3 abilities as they are now?

Absolutely amazing. A completely different way to play the game than 90% of the rest of the Warframes we have, but incredibly satisfying when you out-play other frames because of her.

[Christopaz]

As others have said, Banshee is THE run-and-gun frame with the nearest relative being Harrow(for me imo). A good banshee player means a player that can aim decently well and move well. Normal range or neg range silence for sweet staggerlocks and melee multiplier and sonar being sonar. If one could survive with her during endless runs where CC and sonar spots start to matter, that's a pretty damn good player.

Yeah her ult sucks and deserves to be removed for staining her reputation cough soundquake banshees cough

[-Gwyndolin]

I'm happy we all agree that she needs a little change in her kit. Thanks! <3

[(PSN)ALTBOULI]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Lmao, still one of the most mentioned frames cause of how "strong" she is.

 

This in a nutshell she is still very powerful. OP Calling her worthless is quite frankly moronic

[-Gwyndolin]

The problem here is not her being worthless or absolutely garbage. It's that she gets boring eventually and realizing you can do what you were doing 3 times better with another character AND in an entertaining way. Sure you can still speak of how good the sonar & silence is but, as I mentioned, that's all you have. That's literally all you have. You are forced to play that way and that kills the experince. I'm sorry but the mechanic "One shot everyone and get one shot by everyone, the better you are..." just does not fit this game. Not a bit.

If she is designed to be THE glass cannon of this game, it cannot go unnoticed, can it? I haven't seen a banshee player in like, 2 months and I play this game at least 4 hours a day. This is a problem that will be eventually fixed. Telling others to "git gud" does not help increase banshee pick rate. Neither does it fix her unsynergized, spammy kit.

I hope we see banshee as the character type it was designed to be in the first place. Thanks for your time everyone :)

[Scar.Heart]

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

Her first is just never being used. I feel like I press "press this button to waste energy and knock down enemies. Yay, fun!" button all the time. This is just sad. 

It's used as a quick-cast crowd control. After cast, you can choose to murder everyone who has to get up, or retreat a few steps back.

Mod with augment for quicker Grineer deaths.

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

Sonar however. The ability people rely on and defend so much. Her bread and butter, the reason she exists for. Embrace your fate darling for your destiny is to spam this as hard as you can, whenever you can.

This ability is probably why you chose to play banshee. You want to see big numbers that can satiate you, and you are willing to die in this progress. Many times. Only to realize there was a safer & better way to achieve that. This can be done with many other warframes. However not so efficient.

This sounds like you believe there aren't any other frames who have an ability they spam the ever-loving-crap out of. Perhaps not all frames have one, but Banshee is not the only one.

That aside, Sonar is essentially fine as is.

Mod with augment for continuous Sonars. Use +/- Range mods to better suit your scenario.

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

Third ability. Silence, crowd control ability. The button you press when you really don't wanna get one shot from god knows where.

This ability and sonar are the only things a banshee player can rely on. Other than this? Nothing. You are pretty much forced to play this way, anything you tried, anything you wanted to do other than this has failed. Many times. This is the best way to play banshee, it seems.

You're partially correct with your first sentence. It's a great way to enter areas (or reach downed teammates) without sustaining damage yourself.

Mod with Savage Silence for the poor man's Maiming Strike. It's quite effective with long-reaching weapons. Again, mod Silence with +/- Range mods to better suit the build's needs.

 

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

No augment or miracle can save you from this. Only empower it.

I would argue that you either haven't played Banshee enough/at all, or do not mod her properly.

 

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

Banshee fourth: Some sort of destructive scream. Imagine volt casting discharge with his range and strength build. Enemies act just same but instead of electricity, there are scream sounds you can barely hear. You deal massive damage over time, enemies are performing the electric proc animation and some of them performing the animation you see when you cast silence upon them. After a few seconds, all affected enemies collapse and there is nothing but silence. You used all of your energy in that while, channeling the scream. As the result you got a blissful silence. And a lot of affinity indeed!

Wailing skills have been suggested throughout the times Banshee was brought up.

I wouldn't mind one, as it'd be sweet to see. However, what you're suggesting lacks detail other than "a lot of damage."

 

16 hours ago, -Gwyndolin said:

In sum, banshee is just worthless and overwritten by many other characters.

9 minutes ago, -Gwyndolin said:

The problem here is not her being worthless or absolutely garbage.

???

 

10 minutes ago, -Gwyndolin said:

that she gets boring eventually

That's entirely up to the individual.

I get bored playing frames that can nuke planets with one or two button presses, or frames that have perpetual invincibility/invisibility. Too easy.

12 minutes ago, -Gwyndolin said:

Sure you can still speak of how good the sonar & silence is but, as I mentioned, that's all you have. That's literally all you have. You are forced to play that way and that kills the experince.

I'd like to ask if you'd mind listing all the warframes that consistently use all four of their abilities in any given build?

Seeing a frame/build centered around one or two abilities is common. Unless the better half of warframes have been reworked to constantly use all 4 skills since my last stay, I don't see an issue with Banshee having 2 frequently used skills, and 1 occasionally used skill.

14 minutes ago, -Gwyndolin said:

If she is designed to be THE glass cannon of this game

Is she?

I'm almost certain Banshee was some form of CC/Support frame.

_____

The only thing I can agree with is that her current 4, Sound Quake, needs to go.

[Birdframe_Prime]

4 minutes ago, -Gwyndolin said:

I'm sorry but the mechanic "One shot everyone and get one shot by everyone, the better you are..." just does not fit this game. Not a bit.

Heh, sorry, but... what? This is the literal mechanic of every single frame that doesn't have an Invincibility function (such as Limbo, Valkyr, and so on).

This game is meant to scale beyond Sortie level, and there are plenty of points before that where enemies are capable of one-shotting you if you're not using a defense ability. I guarantee you, go say high to a Corrupted Crewman at level 40 without some kind of defense skill on, just let him take his shot on any frame that's not receiving 90% damage reduction from an ability, not using Iron Skin or having boosted Armour from Iron Renewal... without any of that, a level 60 Scorch can take out around 30 of the 36 frames.

I've reached stages of this game where the old Chroma, with the broken EHP scaling, used to get one-shot by those Corrupted Crewmen, and there are plenty of players that do even more. There's even the good-old LifeofRio channel, devoted to the idea that 3 hours in survival is chump-change and reaching level 1700 enemies is where any good player should cap out due to how the mechanics of this game work.

That function of 'one shot or get one shot' is literally a built-in, as designed, completely supported by the creators of the game feature. It's why we go into missions in teams of four, why we are encouraged to make teams of frames for best effect, because we only get limited Revives and getting one-shot is so common at higher level

Just because I can see that one of Banshee's abilities does need a fix doesn't mean that she's a boring frame.

To me, and I'm certainly not alone, what's boring is going as Octavia, sitting invisible with Metronome and throwing down a Mallet and Amp every time you remember to, letting enemies kill themselves on your ability.

That's what other people are saying is 'the frame playing for you', where mechanics are doing that they do without your actual input. It's just downright sad.

Banshee is not Nidus, she is not Octavia or Saryn, but she's easily as viable and, in our opinion, more fun to play than most of the others in the game.

I mean, in reality, I'm a Zephyr player, my idea of fun is to stand there completely immune to Ranged Damage while I line up shots, with the ability to float around corners at sprinting speed while everyone else is left in the dust, and if anything gets a little tough, I smack everything with Airburst and jet away to the other side of the map.

I like frames that have high ability synergy, like Nidus and Saryn and Harrow and Octavia, but I also like frames that have literally no ability synergy, like Rhino or Loki, maybe a bit of Nyx or Nova. (Frames don't have to have ability synergy to work.)

But when I want to get serious, or power level a melee weapon using the Stealth mechanics, or really hit a solo high time on Survival? Banshee does it. Banshee makes it work.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb (PS4)ALTBOULI:

This in a nutshell she is still very powerful. OP Calling her worthless is quite frankly moronic

Well, both perspectives are frankly her in a nutshell.

On one side, she's got the strongest damage dbuff in the game, what makes her an excellent damage dealer in both singletarget and AoE (if used in moderation).

On the other side, her defenses are really, really low in terms of Cc and stats. Damage reductions are nonexistant... this makes her difficult to play, even in midlevels.

I found my sweet spot by playing her how many people have allready suggested way before Resonating Quake was in the game, by using it to quick-stun enemies (many have asked for silence to be recastable at the time. The augument was a result of that to the same end) but she's a glass cannon trough and trough even like that. She's godly to the same extend she's utter trash so you can't really blame op.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Helljack84]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

This game is meant to scale beyond Sortie level.

No it isn't. Devs have stated that anything beyond sortie level is pretty much uncharted territory. The game mechanics just fall apart beyond that. Anything that's not hard CC or complete invulnerability ceases to function. 

There's even the good-old LifeofRio channel, devoted to the idea that 3 hours in survival is chump-change and reaching level 1700 enemies is where any good player should cap out due to how the mechanics of this game work.

Definition of a "good" player: Stays in mission for 8 hours straight pumping damage into defenseless bullet sponges while invulnerable/invisible, ok.

That function of 'one shot or get one shot' is literally a built-in, as designed, completely supported by the creators of the game feature. It's why we go into missions in teams of four, why we are encouraged to make teams of frames for best effect, because we only get limited Revives and getting one-shot is so common at higher level.

One shot kills from players are because of powercreep. If enemies killing players in one hit is a feature, why do we even have hp/shields/defensive mods and enemies hit scan weapons?

To me, and I'm certainly not alone, what's boring is going as Octavia, sitting invisible with Metronome and throwing down a Mallet and Amp every time you remember to, letting enemies kill themselves on your ability.

But...you need to do that for 8 hours straight to be a "good" player, remember?

 

[felixsylvaris]

There is a situacion that you need level 100 for her multiplier start being important. And for normal content you may prefer general tanky nuker like Excalibur.

There are minor issues, like her energy pool could be max possible (300 on prime) so she could use her abillities in more generous way.

Sonic Boom could deal more damage, in the name of justice. It will probably never be primary dps abillity, however it could be on pair with other 25e blasts. The main thing with sonic boom is to gain space, so we can shoot that hot spots.

What could really help is to swap Soundquake, and Resonatin quake, maybe with some extra stun due to shock. Being rooted is not very fun. 200 base damage is nothing special. There is also risk of being shoot outside the range which could be dealy. There could be instances when long lasting quake is good (some defensive missions) but normally you want some nuke damage, some stun (could be just 10sec) and keep shoting.

Can equip resonating quake, however i think that resonating quake is more suitable, and normal soundquake is for special cases.

Nevertheless, nyx, atlas, titania, wukong, Vauban deserve more attencion much quicker, so Banshee need to remain silent.

[Birdframe_Prime]

32 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

No it isn't. Devs have stated that anything beyond sortie level is pretty much uncharted territory. The game mechanics just fall apart beyond that. Anything that's not hard CC or complete invulnerability ceases to function. 

Four years of playing this game, with DE introducing things like John Prodman (a sub boss at level 300), with Tower Void farms for Prime Parts, with the actual Leaderboards made for posting long duration Survival and Defense times says different my friend.

Mechanics don't fall apart until around level 600 or so, and the enemy scaling only stops incrementally scaling with the level you're on after around 1000 (where it doesn't matter what mission you started on, the enemies scale by 14 levels every round regardless).

Some of our weapons are still capable of one-shotting enemies up until level 200, and we don't lose kills-per-second on survivals until long after that, or never.

36 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

Definition of a "good" player: Stays in mission for 8 hours straight pumping damage into defenseless bullet sponges while invulnerable/invisible, ok.

That's his definition of a good player, mine's different. My definition of a good player is being able to pick up any frame, regardless of whether it's good, bad or indifferent, and be able to take on any challenge with it and the right gear setup.

Going beyond Sortie level is not hard, and used to be encouraged with rewards, the only reason that people think it's not encouraged anymore is that the rewards were made available at an earlier point, in bite-sized play, meaning the only encouragement for continuing beyond that is personal goals. Or competition with others ^^

38 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

One shot kills from players are because of powercreep. If enemies killing players in one hit is a feature, why do we even have hp/shields/defensive mods and enemies hit scan weapons?

Better question; if we're not meant to get one-shot, why are the most powerful abilities in the game not the Damage or Defense abilities, but the Crowd Control ones, that prevent us from getting shot in the first place?

A better question is; if we're not meant to get one-shot, why does sniper fire or shotgun fire, or actual fire scale to the point it can one-shot us before we get to sortie level if we don't use CC and Defense casts?

A better question is; if we're not meant to get one-shot, why does every Warframe come with a maximum Effective Health even with modding? Where even frames that have massive Damage Reduction like Mesa, Chroma and Trinity are still only capable of reaching 90-97% DR in a game where that still means damage comes in values in the hundreds after those reductions have been applied?

If we're not meant to die at high level, why give us revives? Why make it a core team-work mechanic in this game that players enter a bleed-out state and can be revived by others?

Being killed, and thus as an extension, potentially being killed in one-shot, is the ever-present reality of this game, and why we go in teams, and why it's not defense, or EHP, or even our ability to one-shot that defines whether we survive, but how much we can stop enemies from killing us. And that, my friend, is why there are two key states of an enemy; dead, or completely unable to attack, and these are sought after by everyone.

45 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

But...you need to do that for 8 hours straight to be a "good" player, remember?

Ah, the taunt. No, I never said that, I pointed out LifeofRio. I happened to use him as an example to show that there are players who specifically document how the game scales, what levels are possible and where the actual mechanics start to break. And that, because it's possible for somebody like him, I also believe that a good player should be able to do the same, not because you 'have to do that to be good', but because you are good you can do that.

Knowing how the game works is more important than just equipping a build and some meta weapons.

Now, do you actually want to discuss making Banshee better, or do you want to keep trying to contradict me on other topics?

[Leqesai]

Way off topic but IMO a good player can take unmodded frames + weapons and clear starchart. 

 

It is actually pretty fun playing "low level" content with some major restrictions to loadout. 

[-Gwyndolin]

I just made a battlefield

I don't know what to feel but I can't resist taking a back step and let out that irresistable giggle inside me