Melee 3.0 (we need to talk)

[(PSN)Samnizal_Plays]

Ever since the announced changes to melee 3.0 we have received basicly no info on weapon or mod changes. BUT, then to ALL of our disappointment during devstream yesterday, while Reb was fighting the corpus and enemy dropped the new Reach mod for melee and on it was a + range as normal but also PUNCHTHROUGH?????. So, what does this leave us with? It leaves us with that the Devs nerfed melee to not go through walls. BUT , then return now to give us modable punch through on Melee???

I'd like to give an example of over nerfing something. Wukong with iron vault was nerfed when used with glaives, patches later melee no longer goes through walls. What this leaves is a combo nerfed for no reason because you can't even hit enemies through the walls, this also includes the Arca Titron passive being pointless cuz it no longer works either.

What I want from the Devs is simply give us #numbers and information to any rework so that info can be looked and reviewed by players for side by side comparison, instead of y'all consistly never giving numbers or info so we can't fact check your work.

[Spartan336]

In due time, my friend. In due time.

I'm almost 100% sure they'll showcase it before they release it. DE is like that, and listens to their fans. They just need to be ready to show it first. 

[GinKenshin]

Wait for the dev workshop

[DevMicco]

They didnt show any core numbers for the nezah rework at all before it came out, only remarked about the 90% damage reduction but none of the other numbers (like the multi scaling shield etc.) Just being fair here.

Edited September 15, 2018 by DevMicco

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Samnizal_Plays said:

Ever since the announced changes to melee 3.0 we have received basicly no info on weapon or mod changes.

Why don't you wait for the actual dev workshop on the balance pass for melee weapons. What does the WIP system changes have to do with the melee balance pass? I don't see the point in giving numbers that are heavily subject to change.

 

 

[seprent]

17 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Wait for the dev workshop

^ what he said

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Samnizal_Plays said:

-snip-

yeah the devstream is a good way to get a idea of where the game is heading and sometimes you see stuff like this and of course its understandable to talk about it it was there for 40-50k people to see but yeah if you try to read into every little detail about how something will be before its even out yet or even in a draft to be explained ya might go mad the dev build how i see it is like a ball within a room where every wall is a paddle it just bounces around nonstop till it decides to stick (imagine full forcing a super-ball in a small room) and around that point is when the dev workshop is shown and then the ball is reset with feedback and the bouncing continues just more calmly some times sticking and then starting back up again

also its rude to generalize just saying 

Edited September 15, 2018 by seprent
forgot to quote

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

The only mods I worry about right now are blood rush and weeping wounds, they haven't mentioned them at all.  Are they or are they not going to be complete garbage?  I know a lot of us would like to know if melee is going back to to how it was/useful for coptering and nothing else, but without the coptering as that hasn't been in the game for a long while.  We all want to know if critical builds will be viable at all or if it will be purely just condition overload melee's and no critical builds will be viable in comparison to condition overload status builds.  

[(XBOX)IllRWBY RosellI]

Also the combo system.  People complain left and right but it's the same people that can't learn how to time the presses for a combo. We are losing combo multiplier, stances, and long time use for melee. Melee 3.0 is going to be the biggest mistake ever. I may as well quit Warframe because of it. And I have over 1k hours. 

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, (XB1)IllRWBY RosellI said:

Also the combo system.  People complain left and right but it's the same people that can't learn how to time the presses for a combo. We are losing combo multiplier, stances, and long time use for melee. Melee 3.0 is going to be the biggest mistake ever. I may as well quit Warframe because of it. And I have over 1k hours. 

Seems like you read nothing on melee 3.0 if you think stances are going away. And I don't see how long time use for melee is diminishing. The new system looks promising but it's impossible to make a final verdict based on what is shown now.

[petrinosg3]

Lets all be realistic here 

The dev workshop will come after atleast 5 years by my [DE]Lay clock

[(PSN)Crixus044]

44 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

Wait for the dev workshop

I'd agree with ya, except despite bitter disappointment in workshops, meant to get feedback, they just go through with it anyways. Posts that are for it generally don't understand what is really happening, and when you explain it to them, then they get it. Otherwise, the factual rebuttals are all but ignored.

[(XBOX)IllRWBY RosellI]

21 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Seems like you read nothing on melee 3.0 if you think stances are going away. And I don't see how long time use for melee is diminishing. The new system looks promising but it's impossible to make a final verdict based on what is shown now.

I do agree. But what I've heard it's not worth staying for. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You forgot the big part is that reach in that dev build apparently would only affect heavy attacks. Which basically removes all incentive to use the mod to begin with.

[AgentSkye]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You forgot the big part is that reach in that dev build apparently would only affect heavy attacks. Which basically removes all incentive to use the mod to begin with.

Hi again, sorry for the redundancy. But for the other people who read this thread: no, we don't actually know this. The wording on the placeholder Reach text we saw is ambiguous. There is no way to know from that text whether the added range applies to all melee, or only heavy attacks. However, the added punch-through is definitely heavy only.

The text reads "[PH] +0.3m Range and Punch Through on Heavy Attacks".

The thing is, there's two ways to read that. One is "(+range & +punch-through) on heavy attacks", in which case the range is also heavy-only. But you could also read it as "+range & (+punch-through on heavy attacks)", in which case it gives range for all melee attacks AND gives punch-through for heavy attacks.

It's ambiguous. From that text alone, there is no way for any of us to know which way DE intended it.

 

Also, IMO, punch-through as a mod and not an inherent quality of all melee is exactly how it should be. I agree with DE's decision to remove it from melee, and I'm glad they're following through by adding it on mods. Just, y'know, hopefully there's a punch-through mod that isn't heavy only.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, AgentSkye said:

Hi again, sorry for the redundancy. But for the other people who read this thread: no, we don't actually know this. The wording on the placeholder Reach text we saw is ambiguous. There is no way to know from that text whether the added range applies to all melee, or only heavy attacks. However, the added punch-through is definitely heavy only.

The text reads "[PH] +0.3m Range and Punch Through on Heavy Attacks".

The thing is, there's two ways to read that. One is "(+range & +punch-through) on heavy attacks", in which case the range is also heavy-only. But you could also read it as "+range & (+punch-through on heavy attacks)", in which case it gives range for all melee attacks AND gives punch-through for heavy attacks.

It's ambiguous. From that text alone, there is no way for any of us to know which way DE intended it.

 

Also, IMO, punch-through as a mod and not an inherent quality of all melee is exactly how it should be. I agree with DE's decision to remove it from melee, and I'm glad they're following through by adding it on mods. Just, y'know, hopefully there's a punch-through mod that isn't heavy only.

Hinging your opinion on this topic on the fact that you think there’s supposed to be a coma when there isn’t implying that the mod only affects heavy attacks it’s not a wise move.

[AgentSkye]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Hinging your opinion on this topic on the fact that you think there’s supposed to be a coma when there isn’t implying that the mod only affects heavy attacks it’s not a wise move.

I never mentioned commas and I'm not really sure what you're getting at, but if you're trying to say that the lack of a comma means there's no ambiguity, you have it backward.

If I thought there was supposed to be a comma, I wouldn't be telling you it's ambiguous.

With a comma, it could only mean one thing. However, even if that one thing is what they intended, that comma is optional.

Because that comma is optional, they could write it without the comma and still have the same meaning.

The problem there is that there's another meaning that is only possible without a comma.

Again: one meaning is only possible without a comma, while the other meaning works either way.

The description doesn't have a comma, so there are two possible meanings.

 

If the comma were mandatory, you'd be right, because the lack of a comma would indicate that it isn't the same meaning as you'd have with the comma. But the comma is optional, so that's not the case.

[Vox_Preliator]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Hinging your opinion on this topic on the fact that you think there’s supposed to be a coma when there isn’t implying that the mod only affects heavy attacks it’s not a wise move.

There isn't a comma in Argon Scope, and yet its bonus applies despite not aiming for nine seconds straight.

So yeah there's precedent to suggest that it adds range, and also adds punch through on heavy attacks.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

There isn't a comma in Argon Scope, and yet its bonus applies despite not aiming for nine seconds straight.

So yeah there's precedent to suggest that it adds range, and also adds punch through on heavy attacks.

Ok dude, you argon scope argument is really stretching it. 

[Vox_Preliator]

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok dude, you argon scope argument is really stretching it. 

In what way?  It clearly reads:  "ON HEADSHOT: +135% Crit Chance while aiming for 9 seconds"

So, does it grant its bonus for nine seconds after a headshot, but only while aiming?  Or after aiming for nine seconds and then getting a headshot?  Now the second interpretation sounds stupid, right?  Thus we can make a guess that the former is correct. 

They have stated in the past that Range mods would likely become flat additions rather than multipliers, which is what we see here, and also that Melee 3.0 will predominantly buff melee across the board with a few outliers being reigned in.  But it also says that it adds punch-through on heavy attacks.  So, does it add punch through on heavy attacks and also range?  Or range and punch-though on heavy attacks only?  Based on what we know has been said about the system, the latter interpretation sounds absurd, and the former reasonable.  Therefore, without further information, it is safe to conclude that the mod adds range, and also adds punch-though on heavy attacks.

For that matter, they are not yet at the point where they are searching for community feedback, so spending our time speculating and fearmongering ain't gonna help anyone, us as players least of all.

[DroopingPuppy]

Well, no punch through at all results the melee attacks are easily stopped by even a single small obstacle. Some punch through seems necessary on the melee weapons I think.