Analysis: The heavy inflation of rivens due to platinum economy and lack of disposition monitoring - leading to unsustainable prices and possible countermeasures

[Rakosta_Kai]

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The point is, what we have is not inflation, so people should stop calling it that.

Inflation is the rate of increase in price over a given period of time. So what we are seeing is, in fact, inflation.

What you go on to describe is a potential cause of inflation.

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Inflation always means that the currency gets weakened and things cost more as a result. That is simply not what we have here.

...see above.

18 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it isnt an inflation of the riven market either. It is just a bunch of entitled people crying because they cant afford it while also crying over a glimpse of the market without taking a better look at the actual sales made. It is an optional market with variable items, of course they will have an extreme difference in prices. We are also talking about peoples time and resources here when they wanna sell to you, not some static items you get and sell just like that.

...see above regarding inflation.

There's is certainly truth in stating that rivens (ignoring the strawman in the room) are so unique, even when compared to each other, that they tend to confound standard pricing expectations. Coupling that with low supply will always inflate value.

But since all big systems in this game are designed to encourage plat sales...That inflation actually makes Rivens potentially deviant by comparison.

FWIW, It's my opinion that the single largest curb to inflation among normally traded items has nothing to do with any system in-game but warframe.market instead.

It supplies a needed measure of transparency and competition to sellers which acts as a curb to inflation.

Likewise, Riven.Market is still relatively unknown but will supply the same curbing effect eventually.

 

[SneakyErvin]

46 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Inflation is the rate of increase in price over a given period of time. So what we are seeing is, in fact, inflation.

What you go on to describe is a potential cause of inflation.

...see above.

...see above regarding inflation.

There's is certainly truth in stating that rivens (ignoring the strawman in the room) are so unique, even when compared to each other, that they tend to confound standard pricing expectations. Coupling that with low supply will always inflate value.

But since all big systems in this game are designed to encourage plat sales...That inflation actually makes Rivens potentially deviant by comparison.

FWIW, It's my opinion that the single largest curb to inflation among normally traded items has nothing to do with any system in-game but warframe.market instead.

It supplies a needed measure of transparency and competition to sellers which acts as a curb to inflation.

Likewise, Riven.Market is still relatively unknown but will supply the same curbing effect eventually.

 

Inflation is always in relation to the value of the currency, raised prices is an effect of a weaker currency, a weaker currency is not an effect of raised prices. Lets say the majority of US stores decide to raise their prices for some odd reason, that doesnt result in the dollar getting weaker, it will still be as strong as it is in the rest of the world. But if the dollar gets weaker it will result in prices also increasing to compensate and more dollars are needed in international trades.

And here the plat is just as valueble now as it has been for the last year (atleast), so it really isnt an inflation. And with the unique nature of rivens you simply cant say it is an inflation of the riven market either and to add to that the "markets" arent seperate. And not only are rivens unique to eachother at first look, you then have the resources and time piled ontop of that when a player decides on a price. There is also no real way to farm rivens, which obviously also drives the prices up.

I mean you arent just paying for the item, you are paying for everything involved around said item being as good as it is when you buy it. It is the same as people wanting to buy other things in the game shamefully cheap. You yell out an item in trade, someone tries to get it 50% off, you tell them no and they go "but it isnt worth that much cos it is easy to farm". Well then, go #*!%ing farm your heart out for that item if it is so easy.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

From Greedy sellers thru Trusting buyers to the Businessmen from Wall Street. Nice.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Inflation is always in relation to the value of the currency, raised prices is an effect of a weaker currency, a weaker currency is not an effect of raised prices.

Inflation is literally rising price or cost... It has the effect of causing the dollar to not stretch as far as it did before (i.e. value). A dollar that doesn't stretch as far as it did is considered weaker.

Economics would tell us that causes and effects have the ability to exacerbate or feed into each other over time and, as such, a weakened currency can be both the cause and effect of raised prices over time.

But the effect of raised prices, itself, is inflation.

Inflation can be due to any number of different things...Production costs,Scarcity, Speculation, Tariffs (this'll be a fun one in the coming years),Taxes (yours or the item sellers), lack of competition,item popularity allowed for revenue/dividend generation increases, and currency value are all potential culprits.

In this game, inflation is almost always going to be tied to scarcity, lack of competition, and speculation...We have no clue on plat value due to no relevant information.

The biggest reason why we see so much of it with Rivens is due to their individual uniqueness, the lack of relevant competition that will create, and speculation.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And here the plat is just as valueble now as it has been for the last year (atleast), so it really isnt an inflation.

Agreed... Plat has no intrinsic, or real,(To us...I'm sure it does to DE) value..it's implied. This game has no relevant sinks to give plat a value to players.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And with the unique nature of rivens you simply cant say it is an inflation of the riven market either and to add to that the "markets" arent seperate.

Yes, I can...In fact, I did.

The prices for Rivens (even trash rivens) have obviously risen over the last 2 years...That's inflation. 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I mean you arent just paying for the item, you are paying for everything involved around said item being as good as it is when you buy it. It is the same as people wanting to buy other things in the game shamefully cheap. You yell out an item in trade, someone tries to get it 50% off, you tell them no and they go "but it isnt worth that much cos it is easy to farm". Well then, go #*!%ing farm your heart out for that item if it is so easy.

• Price of resource boosters has remained static
• Kuva is generally easier to get in larger quantities
• People want to barter in trade and always have and, as such, that presents no new hardships.

If anything, using your current argument suggests that the price of Rivens should have dropped...not risen.

Of course, since you are admitting that production costs affect riven price... You are also admitting that inflation exists too.

[HeartPurity]

You can play sortie everyday and have a chance to earn a riven for free. Totally free. If you are unlucky, you may get a riven in 1 whole week or 2 weeks. This is also one of the reasons why some popular rivens are expensive. I see no reason of complaining rivens in this game. It offers a lot more variety of builds we can have for a weapon and giving more end-game contents to veterans to pursue. No one is asking a newcomer to buy 5K plat worth of riven. It is something for players who are familiar to the weapons and perfecting their favourite weapons. 

Moreover, it is a free market, you can buy a bad roll one which is a lot cheaper if you cant afford the god roll. Top roll is expensive for a reason as it is rare, you can't expect a player to sell his top roll riven for 10p. The price of gear/ rivens will and always be determined by the market itself, supply and demand. 

[(PSN)nating51]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

From Greedy sellers thru Trusting buyers to the Businessmen from Wall Street. Nice.

Even to me this is a weird rising of the bar in terms of economy opinionists in a forum about a videogame (vi-deo-ga-me). That's internet magic, my friend...an holy place where you can be whatever you want just googling around 😉

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by (PS4)nating51

[(PSN)nating51]

8 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

If anything, using your current argument suggests that the price of Rivens should have dropped...not risen.

Of course, since you are admitting that production costs affect riven price... You are also admitting that inflation exists too.

This is pretty logic to me ^

[SneakyErvin]

7 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

The prices for Rivens (even trash rivens) have obviously risen over the last 2 years...That's inflation. 

Actually no that isnt inflation. Inflation is when it hits all across the market. It does not apply when it comes to seperate products, which in this case would be the rivens. Tax as you mention is also not a cause of inflation, unless it keeps rising, otherwise it is a simple one time price increase.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

10 minutes ago, HeartPurity said:

You can play sortie everyday and have a chance to earn a riven for free. Totally free. If you are unlucky, you may get a riven in 1 whole week or 2 weeks. This is also one of the reasons why some popular rivens are expensive. I see no reason of complaining rivens in this game. It offers a lot more variety of builds we can have for a weapon and giving more end-game contents to veterans to pursue. No one is asking a newcomer to buy 5K plat worth of riven. It is something for players who are familiar to the weapons and perfecting their favourite weapons. 

Moreover, it is a free market, you can buy a bad roll one which is a lot cheaper if you cant afford the god roll. Top roll is expensive for a reason as it is rare, you can't expect a player to sell his top roll riven for 10p. The price of gear/ rivens will and always be determined by the market itself, supply and demand. 

All true... But the truth is kinda broken in this case too.

Free markets rely on competition to moderate them... There is typically little to no competition for a specific riven at the time of it's offer because of RNG.

So every Riven is varying degrees of Willy Wonka's golden ticket and there is no moderating influence in game.

...The results speak for themselves.

I don't even see that as a bad thing really except for the possibility that the prices (for even trash rivens on underused weapons) are rising at a speed that it can eventually cut out segments of the playerbase.

Even if 9 out of 10 people don't buy plat ...You need that 1 person encouraged to purchase some or you have no game.

[(PSN)nating51]

That's also quite strange that some people are still struggling to argument odd comparisons between real life economy (work, calculations, investmnet, risk, people, and bilions of other relevant factors) with riven market economy in warframe (farming kuva + a huge slot machine). This is pretty ridiculous, to me.

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

22 hours ago, LSG501 said:

 

PMSL No I didn't miss your point, it was pretty obvious that it was nothing more than you trying to make out you're not 'broke' and trying to make yourself look superior to others but the bit below shows the type of person you are better than any response I can give.   Unfortunately for you I'm not broke, either financially or in game with it's virtual currencies so your attempt failed miserably.

 

 

Not at all. I'm allowing your own assumptions do the talking for you. Keep it up...

Edited September 28, 2018 by (PS4)KnowLedge

[LSG501]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)KnowLedge said:

Not at all. I'm allowing your own assumptions do the talking for you. Keep it up...

Once again, trying to divert the fact that you actually failed at your original attempt to come across as 'better' than other players, but feel free to continue trying it's actually quite funny.

Edited September 28, 2018 by LSG501

[LupisV0lk]

At this point the only way for DE to win the game is to not play.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

This is pretty logic to me ^

That would only be logical if it was true to the definition (used by national banks) of inflation. I'm also not sure where in my reasoning it would imply that rivens would become cheaper. Every riven is more or less unique, this means there wont be an abundance of them, so there is no reason for the value to drop. These arent static mods like Maiming Strike, Argon Scope and other rare/event locked mods (including primes), few rivens are exactly the same.

So each riven is really a seperate product because almost each and every one of them have differences in their stats, including MR requirements, polarity, along with X amounts of rerolls and Kuva investments.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would only be logical if it was true to the definition (used by national banks) of inflation. I'm also not sure where in my reasoning it would imply that rivens would become cheaper. Every riven is more or less unique, this means there wont be an abundance of them, so there is no reason for the value to drop. These arent static mods like Maiming Strike, Argon Scope and other rare/event locked mods (including primes), few rivens are exactly the same.

So each riven is really a seperate product because almost each and every one of them have differences in their stats, including MR requirements, polarity, along with X amounts of rerolls and Kuva investments.

Cite that definition please.

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Cite that definition please.

https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/monetary-policy/the-inflation-target/what-is-inflation/

That is about as official as it gets.

[(PSN)nating51]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would only be logical if it was true to the definition (used by national banks) of inflation. I'm also not sure where in my reasoning it would imply that rivens would become cheaper. Every riven is more or less unique, this means there wont be an abundance of them, so there is no reason for the value to drop. These arent static mods like Maiming Strike, Argon Scope and other rare/event locked mods (including primes), few rivens are exactly the same.

So each riven is really a seperate product because almost each and every one of them have differences in their stats, including MR requirements, polarity, along with X amounts of rerolls and Kuva investments.

Ok, thank you my guru. Why are you still here to talk about a game? Why don't you write for The Economist? 

My real life work is flea market dealer (not joking, lol) and I have to face real life prices of things every day (a shelf, a record collection, a table, an rare book, and so on...). I can't simply compete with your deepest knowledge about how a "market" (slot machine???) works. LMAO.

Edited September 28, 2018 by (PS4)nating51

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, (PS4)nating51 said:

Ok, thank you my guru. Why are you still here to talk about a game? Why don't you write for The Economist? 

My real life work is flea market dealer (this is for true, not joking)...I can't compete with your deepest knowledge about how a "market" (slot machine???) works. LMAO.

We arent talking about the mechanics to reroll rivens, we are talking about the item, cost and the term people throw around regarding the riven market.

Using the "slot machine" is free for everyone.

[JarodDempsey]

people who spend ridic amounts of plat on those rivens are the problem. Here's a solution just limit the price of a riven to a maximum amount like 1-3k platt and ban people if theyre found to be circumventing the rule. Problem solved economy stabilized, rivens will never go above the 3k then and you dont have to worry about inflation. 6 months ago you could get a garbage lanka riven for 300-450p depending on rolls, now i see people selling garbage lankas for upwards of 1100p which is crazy when you think about how that used to be the going price of a nearly godtier riven.

Alternatively de needs to institute a plat sync into the game for these super vets who have 10s or 100s of ks of plat. Something that is just dumb enough to trick them into dumping their plat out of the economy while not disenfranchising the average player. Like let them guild pieces of frames with plat for an exorbitant amount, that way they can check their "im special" box while the rest of us can go on having fun without having to worry about being completely unable to purchase any viable rivens in a year or two due to hyperinflation.

[Peter]

1 minute ago, JarodDempsey said:

people who spend ridic amounts of plat on those rivens are the problem. Here's a solution just limit the price of a riven to a maximum amount like 1-3k platt and ban people if theyre found to be circumventing the rule. Problem solved economy stabilized, rivens will never go above the 3k then and you dont have to worry about inflation. 6 months ago you could get a garbage lanka riven for 300-450p depending on rolls, now i see people selling garbage lankas for upwards of 1100p which is crazy when you think about how that used to be the going price of a nearly godtier riven.

Alternatively de needs to institute a plat sync into the game for these super vets who have 10s or 100s of ks of plat. Something that is just dumb enough to trick them into dumping their plat out of the economy while not disenfranchising the average player. Like let them guild pieces of frames with plat for an exorbitant amount, that way they can check their "im special" box while the rest of us can go on having fun without having to worry about being completely unable to purchase any viable rivens in a year or two due to hyperinflation.

It's not their fault if you're poor.

Soon you will ask Ferrari to sell his cars for the price of a popular one.

[JarodDempsey]

Just now, Peter said:

It's not their fault if you're poor.

Soon you will ask Ferrari to sell his cars for the price of a popular one.

lol simply because they have the ability to spend so much doesnt mean they should. Theyre the ones causing the game to become less fun for others, it's their choices that are doing this.

[Peter]

1 minute ago, JarodDempsey said:

lol simply because they have the ability to spend so much doesnt mean they should. Theyre the ones causing the game to become less fun for others, it's their choices that are doing this.

And who are you to decide what others can or can not do?

Edited September 28, 2018 by Peter

[JarodDempsey]

Just now, Peter said:

And who are you to decide what others can and can not do?

someone who - unlike them - understands that inflation is bad for the game economy 

[Peter]

5 minutes ago, JarodDempsey said:

someone who - unlike them - understands that inflation is bad for the game economy 

We have the solution of capitalism here!

Edited September 28, 2018 by Peter

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/monetary-policy/the-inflation-target/what-is-inflation/

That is about as official as it gets.

Your source is ok (mostly)...Your comprehension is just terrible.

First...

Your source completely refutes what you had called inflation up to this point.

"Inflation is always in relation to the value of the currency, raised prices is an effect of a weaker currency, a weaker currency is not an effect of raised prices.".-You.

You're backwards...even your own source says so.

Second...

What else is in the Riven market? Think hard....What other items is it comprised of?

...If the prices on Rivens are inflated then that market is experiencing inflation...Because it's the only item in it.

Your source is wrong here regardless though because it doesn't have to be an entire market to be inflated...The imbalance just has to be able to be large enough to inflate prices.

Housing has caused financial crisis in at least two countries and one sector certainly should  not be able to do that according to your source.

 

You should ask your national bank to consider updating it's reasoning on relative price increases because it's also half explained.