Analysis: The heavy inflation of rivens due to platinum economy and lack of disposition monitoring - leading to unsustainable prices and possible countermeasures

[Yatazanami]

4 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Considering they are rolling out the melee update they should also think about the balance of the whole game. I'd say a cautious every few months, maybe less if there was a large balance update for the disposition changes.

The thing is I'm pretty sure a lot of DE's problems come from mismanagement of time and resources (I think it was during a recent QuietteShy stream with Rebecca and Steve as guests where he answered a question about studio management with: I have no idea how to manage people and I think it's easy to see.)

As much as DE seems to have good atmosphere in the team, they also seem kinda unable to focus on the right issues. I know I might be getting a little off topic, but I'd say if they had a better management, they could totally find time to fix up the problems with rivens.

For me it's less of an issue how to do it, more about when they going to put in the effort already.

i almost want to cry for real , i finally made someone understand what i meant from my whole rant , and yes when i was calling this current riven system cancer 

i meant a literal one on some sense and we all know what happen when you leave a cancer to his devices , he will metastasis and claim more area until it become 

impossible for a reasonable fix and that is what i am fearing for this game , i know DE heart is in the right place by taking on big ambitious projects like fortuna etc 

but if they ignore this growing nasty tremor , it may take everything down with it .

[Zimzala]

Gamers are hilarious.

Players decided to attribute emotion-based platinum prices to in-game items and now blame the developers on those mistakes.

And to top it all off, some think it is a conspiracy by DE.

Too funny.

[sleepychewbacca]

7 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

shame to see you come to this conclusion but i hope you read this :

once upon the time DE released kubrow to the game , the most sought after fur pattern was the lotus one

but instead of farming eggs for a very long time there was a slot machine handle that you can flip to roll your kubrow fur pattern 

i wont deny it i used it a few times but i didnt see it as big problem to the game at the time (i was younger and had less wisdom lol) do you know what DE did ?

they removed that system in almost no time without any clash back from the community and the they're reasoning was ( we didnt want create a slot machine)

after a guy rolled 200 times , keep in mind you could trade fur patterns at that time and you still do now and here is the source of my claim 

now compare this to the current Riven system and tell me where did DE go wrong . 

I don't see the point you're making. 

This in itself is just how the system works, but it is not mandatory. 

If we paid DE directly for Rivens that may have the stats we want, I could follow. But say RNG is good to me, or I grind for an amount of time to get a good Riven. The transaction is what I worth my time or my item. 

For example;


^ That isn't DE. That is me, and a person who agrees to my price. So, I can understand where you're coming from, but respectfully, I disagree. Free market isn't something DE controls, unlike the Kubrow example. 

 

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

Its out of control.

Its gambling.

Disposition changes cause dissapointment when they happen.

If you want to spend your wages on them fair enough, but think of all the real money being taken from the family budget everywhere.

Problem: Rubbish rolls. Nobody uses a terrible riven.

A solution: Remove the negatives. Easier to roll a decent riven, market gets plenty supply. Abundance is good. 

Just my opinion people.

[Zimzala]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WeeMalk5 said:

Its out of control.

Its gambling.

Disposition changes cause dissapointment when they happen.

If you want to spend your wages on them fair enough, but think of all the real money being taken from the family budget everywhere.

Problem: Rubbish rolls. Nobody uses a terrible riven.

A solution: Remove the negatives. Easier to roll a decent riven, market gets plenty supply. Abundance is good. 

Just my opinion people.

You sound like DE is robbing people of food. What FUD.

Just because there are people who exist that cannot properly budget money means that things like Rivens are allowing 'real money being taken from family budgets'?

That is laughable FUD from a PoV that screams 'game makers should starve'.

Just my opinion.

[Dreadwire]

A guy in pug ask me how much i pay for lanka riven. 

I told him i didn't buy mine. I was lucky enough to get one.

Then he ask if he should pay 2.6k plat for a riven a guy sell un trade chat.

I told him dude.. i dont mind you leach eidolon hunt. Just don't be stupid.  Just use whatever you got. Its not worth it.

 

[Yatazanami]

44 minutes ago, Peter said:

You're comparing a system that used platinum (real money) to reroll statuses with one that uses Kuva, a feature that can be adquired ingame by anyone and without the need to pay real money.

It can distort things as much as you want, but you know this comparison is invalid.

first lets compare them more thoroughly shall we ? 

lets say you want to get a lanka riven for eidolon hunt without spending any real money  :

first you need to sacrifice a black goat to rngesus (duh) and pray for ---->

a riven to drop from sortie (rng on the reward + rng on the class of the veiled riven)

for your unlock to be a lanka riven [rng again]

and then you need to farm the most boring resource in the game to use it in a lottery for the perfect stats (another whole level of rng 🤪]

and then you stop for a moment and realize ...you're using the riven system in the opposite way DE intended for it 

now go ahead and tell me how throwing 10p to pull a handle for instant result is more scummy (keep in mind this kubrow system was not intended to fix a core mechanic in the game)

so no i would rather spend 2k plat to get my lanka riven directly than going through that hellish layers of rng (yes it makes spending money that alluring) wish is 

bad and not healthy system by DE own standards .  

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Yatazanami]

6 minutes ago, Dreadwire said:

A guy in pug ask me how much i pay for lanka riven. 

I told him i didn't buy mine. I was lucky enough to get one.

Then he ask if he should pay 2.6k plat for a riven a guy sell un trade chat.

I told him dude.. i dont mind you leach eidolon hunt. Just don't be stupid.  Just use whatever you got. Its not worth it.

 

i see what you mean ... but not everyone in your neighbor wins the lottery everyday (or weeks , or maybe months for some...) so its a flawed system .

[Peter]

15 minutes ago, Yatazanami said:

first lets compare them more thoroughly shale we ? 

lets say you want to get a lanka riven for eidolon hunt without spending any real money  :

first you need to sacrifice a black goat to rngesus (duh) and pray for ---->

a riven to drop from sortie (rng on the reward + rng on the class of the veiled riven)

for your unlock to be a lanka riven [rng again]

and then you need to farm the most boring resource in the game to use it in a lottery for the perfect stats (another whole level of rng 🤪]

and then you stop for a moment and realize ...you're using the riven system in the opposite way DE intended for it 

now go ahead and tell me how throwing 10p to pull a handle for instant result is more scummy (keep in mind this kubrow system was not intended to fix a core mechanic in the game)

so no i would rather spend 2k plat to get my lanka riven directly than going through that hellish layers of rng (yes it makes spending money that alluring) wish is 

bad and not healthy system by DE own standards .  

The market is free, everyone has the right to put the price they want, the Rivens are based on RNG, they were not made for your satisfaction, much less to be easy, stop fantasizing your head with "DE intentions", is clear the intention of this system and it is clear that there is nothing wrong, otherwise the DE itself would have already changed.

You do not have to use it if you do not want to, simple. You're just a guy who wants everything easy, if I tell you how many people in the Forum have already complained about this, it does not reach 0.01% of the players, and is only complaining because he does not have the balls to try to get one and stays here complaining in the same circles a lot of people showing that you are wrong.

I'm out until someone comes up with a less fictitious comment.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Peter

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

In general, its your money if u want to spend it but overall we know in the back of our heads at some point that riven disposition will get a rework and I'm just waiting patiently for that day to laugh at people who spent thousands and thousands of plat for their God Roll rivens lol. Dont get me wrong, I support rivens but I myself have never spent more then 550p (which was on a God Roll Twin Gremlins riven imo which I was surprised he only wanted that much) on a single riven as I always either buy trash roll or unrolled. It jus doesn't feel satisfying bragging bout a riven u bought vs a riven u rolled the stats for if you know wat i mean.

Edited September 24, 2018 by (PS4)AZN_RH

[Yatazanami]

24 minutes ago, Peter said:

The market is free, everyone has the right to put the price they want, the Rivens are based on RNG, they were not made for your satisfaction, much less to be easy, stop fantasizing your head with "DE intentions", is clear the intention of this system and it is clear that there is nothing wrong, otherwise the DE itself would have already changed.

You do not have to use it if you do not want to, simple. You're just a guy who wants everything easy, if I tell you how many people in the Forum have already complained about this, it does not reach 0.01% of the players, and is only complaining because he does not have the balls to try to get one and stays here complaining in the same circles a lot of people showing that you are wrong.

I'm out until someone comes up with a less fictitious comment.

just wow , i tough maybe you're serious about this so i put my effort to make some valid points (on my opinion) but you glide all over them and gone straight

into defending the cancer :

its Free Market'' (they can buff/nerf/prime and tweak the riven deposition anytime they want so dont worry guys they wont abuse it ----------------------->

[Tiberon prime/Pyrana prime/Gram prime/Rubico prime]  🤣 🤣 🤣 .

Riven are based on RNG.  (nothing beats RNG Crutches right ?)

i see nothing wrong with it so DE might also see nothing wrong with it other wise they would have change it.  (i cant even ....)

its only 0.01% of the player base. ( you have insider official statistics and you didnt share with us ? how cruel! LOL)

and the best of them all : ( nobody force you to use it) except ! 

DE themselves said this system was meant for weak and underused guns and it was a temporary crutches instead of the long awaited Damage 3.0 

aaaand hes out .

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[Yatazanami]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)AZN_RH said:

In general, its your money if u want to spend it but overall we know in the back of our heads at some point that riven disposition will get a rework and I'm just waiting patiently for that day to laugh at people who spent thousands and thousands of plat for their God Roll rivens lol. Dont get me wrong, I support rivens but I myself have never spent more then 550p (which was on a God Roll Twin Gremlins riven imo which I was surprised he only wanted that much) on a single riven as I always either buy trash roll or unrolled. It jus doesn't feel satisfying bragging bout a riven u bought vs a riven u rolled the stats for if you know wat i mean.

and this is the hurtful truth about all of this , DE is letting this cancer provoke into full blown tragedy, if you want a proof then a quick look the in-game trading channel +

the online riven markets and you will see people panting and lusting after the next power-creep and the inevitable result of ----> (broken feelings and wallet)

[ElKayJae]

Rivens are in such a bad state because DE went back on their intended design, which is to balance unpopular weapons. They have shown on the devstream how they could easily collect data on Warframe usage, im sure the same can be done for weapons and would not take much of an effort to automate it. Ranking the weapons from most popular to least popular and automatically assigning a disposition that changes with popularity shouldnt be that hard since it can be automatically updated as well.

 

I dont agree that the people with godtier rivens with high disposition on popular weapons should be grandfathered it is still unbalanced and should be brought down to their proper disposition. I just dont understand why DE choose to not talk about this and spend afew manpower to manage riven dispositions.

 

additional info:

Remember when maiming strike was the hot topic and news of melee 3.0 came? thats whats gonna happen with the riven market and its gonna be much much worse but a needed reset to get us on a good start again.

Edited September 24, 2018 by ElKayJae

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

10 minutes ago, ElKayJae said:

Rivens are in such a bad state because DE went back on their intended design, which is to balance unpopular weapons. They have shown on the devstream how they could easily collect data on Warframe usage, im sure the same can be done for weapons and would not take much of an effort to automate it. Ranking the weapons from most popular to least popular and automatically assigning a disposition that changes with popularity shouldnt be that hard since it can be automatically updated as well.

 

I dont agree that the people with godtier rivens with high disposition on popular weapons should be grandfathered it is still unbalanced and should be brought down to their proper disposition. I just dont understand why DE choose to not talk about this and spend afew manpower to manage riven dispositions.

 

additional info:

Remember when maiming strike was the hot topic and news of melee 3.0 came? thats whats gonna happen with the riven market and its gonna be much much worse but a needed reset to get us on a good start again.

They didnt really go back on their design, its jus that they havent updated the dispositions yet. Remember we got a weapons rebalance for primaries and secondaries so in most part the riven dispositions are jus outdated. For instance, tiberon was straight trash but got buffed then tiberon prime came out and the riven dispostion wasnt touched. Also i agree that a automated rievn dispositoon system would be great but I remember Steve saying something how that an automated system would be quite complex (I think it was on one of DE_Badhorse's weekend streams in chat if I recall).

Edited September 24, 2018 by (PS4)AZN_RH

[Aluzhun]

The question you failed to ask is: are these highly-priced rivens actually selling for 20,000p?

When I see people pricing their rivens for such amounts, I automatically assume that they're ego-stroking. They want everyone to see their pride and joy. Their pricing is unrealistic because they don't want to let it go.

[ElKayJae]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)AZN_RH said:

They didnt really go back on their design, its jus that they havent updated the dispositions yet

 

The main design point is it being frequently updated. Not updating it means going back on the design since it is CRITICAL for the design on rivens. it should be weekly or monthly updates not only every once in awhile when they take a look at balance passes.

[Yatazanami]

Just now, Aluzhun said:

The question you failed to ask is: are these highly-priced rivens actually selling for 20,000p?

When I see people pricing their rivens for such amounts, I automatically assume that they're ego-stroking. They want everyone to see their pride and joy. Their pricing is unrealistic because they don't want to let it go.

to be honest with you there is.. , and they're so rare at that , they usually involve devilish specific status that you might win the lottery 10 times than getting one in your entire gameplay

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, Aluzhun said:

The question you failed to ask is: are these highly-priced rivens actually selling for 20,000p?

When I see people pricing their rivens for such amounts, I automatically assume that they're ego-stroking. They want everyone to see their pride and joy. Their pricing is unrealistic because they don't want to let it go.

Some will be for certain but all would happily sell that Riven for that amount.

The real question that many simply don't ask is: Why would someone buy it for that amount.

Anyone selling a riven for that amount should be scared to death the check bounces... If the buyer posts a CC return it's game over for that seller.

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

TBH i dont really see that high of a price range on PS4 since our economy is way cheaper than PC but there was a time I saw a guy post a groll roll Kohm riven which was funny cuz it had damage multishot status chance but the negative was flight speed lol which basically makes the gun unusable and he wanted like 30k or something

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

17 hours ago, Yatazanami said:

except the 50k car is a final and guaranteed product 

now compare this to a product that was intended as a band-aids not to mention it can be taken and tweaked anytime against your will AND 

you can do nothing about it 😂 .

 

true developers dose the hard thing , even if it means to piss people off

DE in the other hand is stacking green fat benjies from this mess .

I dont see any argument from you that proves what "the right thing" is. I would argue the "right thing" is being fair to your customers.

Also, value is subjective. My point stands. Some people are willing to pay more for nice things.

 

By the way, you realize you benefit from this "mess", right? People spending money on this = more money for de = more resources for them to develop game content. Even if you never touch rivens.

[Yatazanami]

44 minutes ago, ElKayJae said:

The main design point is it being frequently updated. Not updating it means going back on the design since it is CRITICAL for the design on rivens. it should be weekly or monthly updates not only every once in awhile when they take a look at balance passes.

exactly the point !  and DE have gone even further with it 🤑

they broke the bank out of this broken mess. just take a look at the leaked Gram Prime stats ... people are investing by the 1k and up on them and DE have total control over

its riven disposition and stats , but they're easy to predict now , they have nothing to show for Chroma prime rework so power-creep would be a perfect distraction from that.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[(PSN)Valar_Morgoolis]

In general, DE has not been doing a good job in overall gameplay aspects. Rivens dispositions are a problem, lack of endgame (raids) are nonexistant since they took it out but even then the raids really didnt look that fun to begin with, and their constant catering to new players for instance lowering of elite alert levels from proposed 100 to 60 is jus goddam sad at this point. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 hour ago, Yatazanami said:

shame to see you come to this conclusion but i hope you read this :

once upon the time DE released kubrow to the game , the most sought after fur pattern was the lotus one

but instead of farming eggs for a very long time there was a slot machine handle that you can flip to roll your kubrow fur pattern 

i wont deny it i used it a few times but i didnt see it as big problem to the game at the time (i was younger and had less wisdom lol) do you know what DE did ?

they removed that system in almost no time without any clash back from the community and the they're reasoning was ( we didnt want create a slot machine)

after a guy rolled 200 times , keep in mind you could trade fur patterns at that time and you still do now and here is the source of my claim 

now compare this to the current Riven system and tell me where did DE go wrong . 

False equivalency. It doesn't cost platinum/money to reroll a riven. It did cost platinum/money to reroll fur patterns 

[Yatazanami]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I dont see any argument from you that proves what "the right thing" is. I would argue the "right thing" is being fair to your customers.

Also, value is subjective. My point stands. Some people are willing to pay more for nice things.

 

By the way, you realize you benefit from this "mess", right? People spending money on this = more money for de = more resources for them to develop game content. Even if you never touch rivens.

my argument for the ''right thing was'' what DE did with the kubrow slot machine , they eradicated the cancer before its spread and made its roots deep into the game 

but with the riven system it was never intended as permanent solution to begin with , it was a placeholder for Damage 3.0 and other related overhauls ''obviously we never get that ... yet.''

and how many years do you think i spent with this game ? i want it to succeed , i wanna see my favorite game known by all the world for the rare gem that is ''along

with DE''----> wonderful people .

but since i love it, i am gonna be harder on it, and i cant just setback and relax will the cancer eating it raw, i dont mind more money for DE but money that make the

cancer spread and flourish ? hell no .

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Yatazanami

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

You sound like DE is robbing people of food. What FUD.

Just because there are people who exist that cannot properly budget money means that things like Rivens are allowing 'real money being taken from family budgets'?

That is laughable FUD from a PoV that screams 'game makers should starve'.

Just my opinion.

No. Its we the people that play the game that have created the high cost riven trade.

Nothing to do with the makers. Its gamers costing gamers.

Not laughable, have a go at me if you wish, its just the way it is unless the makers choose to intervene.