Warframe needs to rework their AI

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, Escapements said:

everyone and they're dog

I'm not a dog, mate. Stop insulting me.

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, Escapements said:

its pretty sad when you see your fellow tenno making fun of you like this instead of discussing your feedback fairly , but all the power to you man , if you want to gang up on my

integrity like this , then you're more than welcome to do it , i have no power over you 😞

Nah, I'm making fun of another guy, in another thread. Good times were had by all.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Escapements said:

why are you making it seems like everyone and they're dog are using nukes and wall hacks and map clearing tactics in every single mode in this game ? 

some people enjoy using they're weapons that only shot bullets you know ? so smarter Ai will give them better enjoyment .

 

Because:

1) That's generally what happens.

2) Even if it isn't map clearing, we're still so powerful that smarter AI doesn't make a difference. I specifically mentioned Tank frames earlier, as well as ridiculously strong defensive abilities.

What's the point in smarter AI when so many of us are immortal? What's the point in smarter AI when a Frost can spam bubbles over the objective for infinity.

Hell, if the enemy were smart they'd just leave us to it, because they obviously can't beat us.

3) It does not matter if some people would enjoy it. It still would not make a substantial difference to the game because even if there's 3 people in a match enjoying shooting things, it just takes one person ability spamming for that smarter AI (and all the time, money and effort that went into it) to become redundant.

2 minutes ago, Escapements said:

its pretty sad when you see your fellow tenno making fun of you like this instead of discussing your feedback fairly

No, you're not discussing fairly. You tell others what to do, you refuse to listen, you misconstrue and you refuse to use common sense.

You do not argue fairly.

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, Escapements said:

my fellow tennos obstruct me

If we didn't criticise your ideas, this thread would be long gone deep in the catalog.

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Hell, if the enemy were smart they'd just leave us to it, because they obviously can't beat us.

This is kinda true, lmao.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Escapements said:

-DE-moneky

That's Sir DeMonkey to you, squire.

[aspeedninja]

@Escapements why are u even here is it is only to spread negativity then just leave, i dont get why u are against the game getting better, insted of being agains everyone that trying to give constructive feedback try to give some yourself and help make the game better, we all lift together 

[nokinoks]

I want to show this again to anyone interested

It's a basic idea, a new set of enemies within the Grineer called the Grineer Graduates. They are the elite because they are immensely smart. This is not going to be deployed all throughout the game, rather it is a separate map or a separate game mode. Again, these enemies are immensely smart, they learn from the community depending on how the community plays. Apart from this, a balance mechanic will be placed, they cannot one shot you, you cannot one shot them. They also employ positional tactics, they flank gung ho players who doesn't care about environmental awareness. They will have units that can mark invisible frames so that while they are marked, they can be seen, among other capabilities making each run a challenge but not changing the rest of the game. 

[844448]

so, you want better AI but what is the change in the game? Most of the time you use skills that covers an area ignoring cover or use weapons that deal massive damage and ignore cover using punch through. This won't really change anything other than slightly responsive AI that won't be different at all other than on new players where they don't use skills and movements often. If you say destiny has better AI, I don't think so, majority of them still shoot you on the open while moving slowly. You want the AI to have the better feeling? DE need to remove all the skills that cover area and change the core to be similar to destiny where you can't kill enemies with one shot even at level 1, then you can have a better AI that surround and flank and have the difference

[-Bv-Qrow_the_Hokage]

On 2018-10-06 at 8:20 AM, Escapements said:

did you ever play Borderlands 2 ? please do it and comeback to understand my point of view , even if you're a god , Ai is still so important to feel the satisfying power

you have 

let me give you an example :

imagine if you're a torturer , you have complete power over your chained and powerless victim , what kind of satisfaction would you feel if you scope a teeth from his

moth without hiring as much as a moan let alone a scream ? now lets try the other side 

imaging if your powerless torture victim started hurling abuse at you and spiting in your face whenever you come close , dont you think you will find slapping him till

tomorrow so freaking good ? especially when he moan and cry like the girl that he is .

can you see what i mean now ? 

The #*!%?

Alright, even beyond your twisted analogy, what does an improved AI mean for you? Is it just better pathing, because that is the only example I've seen brought up? Is it the enemy being more accurate when hitting you? 

Making blind demands for 'better AI' is meaningless, because you aren't defining what better AI means. How will this be implemented? What will the AI do differently? What are some examples of what the enemeis will do in a given situation?

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, -Bv-Qrow_Wraith said:

The #*!%?

Alright, even beyond your twisted analogy, what does an improved AI mean for you? Is it just better pathing, because that is the only example I've seen brought up? Is it the enemy being more accurate when hitting you? 

Making blind demands for 'better AI' is meaningless, because you aren't defining what better AI means. How will this be implemented? What will the AI do differently? What are some examples of what the enemeis will do in a given situation?

I want an AI that stops shooting at me, challenges me to a game of chess and thoroughly beats me in it.

Also, that would solve the whole "powers" issue, because Warframe invulnerability and CC won't help you in chess.

[-Bv-Qrow_the_Hokage]

Just now, rune_me said:

I want an AI that stops shooting at me, challenges me to a game of chess and thoroughly beats me in it.

Also, that would solve the whole "powers" issue, because Warframe invulnerability and CC won't help you in chess.

That's to much power for a grineer lancer. You've gone to far with this, RNGesus will strike you down!

jk

[Defion]

Each time I see a forum topic like this I wonder, does warframe needs better AI enemys? I think not, for these reasons;

Warframe makes up lack of good AI enemys with "none-hollywood movie-shooting enemys".

Warframe makes the player feel overpower'd because thats simpley wat you are in the game universe, smarter AI or not.

If I wanted smarter AI thats in other games I would play those game.

Now I would like to see some AI/pathfinding improvements on smaller npc's like those guys you rescue in rescue missions (seeing them just teleport near you as run/jump/sprint across the map at great ease, makes me wonder why they wouldnt just teleport out their cell) But on the grand scale of things thats a minor thing.  Dont forget Warframe is not designed like Borderlands or Destiny, Warframe is designed to drop in, do a few missions, get out and do it again tomorrow and with that in mind it doesnt "need" smart AI enemys for that. Nor will Warframe "Die" or 'not last long" without smarter AI, Warframe AI works for wat it needs to do 98% and proven fact it works well enough for wat it needs to do or the player base would be pretty much empty.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Defion

[TARINunit9]

On 2018-10-06 at 2:06 AM, Corvid said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

It doesn't matter how smart the AI is when we can shut them down with the push of a button.

On 2018-10-06 at 1:59 AM, Methanoid said:

considering the average lifespan of these mobs the AI we have is still pretty good.

I don't feel this is an excuse. If anything it exacerbates the real issue at play

DE are stuck in a loop of us making a mockery of their enemy design and trying to bring us down from mount Olympus infini-gods to just really strong demigods but it never works because they're afraid to touch the factors that matter. And "why bother with better AI?" is an enormous symptom of that. They keep making cool smaller changes to the game like making Nullifiers and Scrambuses fair, making Commanders not total BS, and making the Nox exist, but it doesn't matter because of all the Maimquinox players or the map-clearing Ignus builds. They give us Amps that no one cares about for more than five minutes because nothing the Quills could ever give us is even half as powerful as a decent Soma Prime. They're stuck nerfing Ember and reworking Saryn to try and curb us because they're afraid of too drastic a shift.

As much as I don't like the Spores 3.0 having decay and not being able to store them on Molt, I can see why they did it from a game design perspective: you build up to a period of high damage, followed by a lull that lets the new enemies spawn. That's why I say let's just do it. Nerf the Tenno. Rework Equinox big time, nerf our AoE weapons, and rework the AI so that they can really shine. Take the "mindless" out of "mindless horde shooter"; maybe then we'll stop getting people unironically asking "why do I have to pick up life support in Survival missions? Why can't I farm infinite high-density mobs in a Capture mission?"

[Lost_Cartographer]

It would actually make more sense to revamp some current enemies and continue introducing new enemies with bull S#&$ immunities/resistances to damage and CC.  Like, Bombards should be big hulking scarab-looking things that toss homing missiles our way and only take full damage from hitting an exposed weak spot while a missile is airborne, not just merely a bigger Grineer.  And Napalms could probably take a page from DOOM's cacodemon - just a big damn floating sphere that lobs toxic goo and eats other Grineer for lunch (health.)  Go for the eye/mouth.

Until Warframe's PvE gameplay is balanced by the PvP balancing team, better AI won't amount to jack.  We need better dumb enemies, and not just the same mook recolored and resized with beefed up stats and handed a different gun.  In other words, it's time for DE to revamp the factions in a meaningful way.  The most visually varied faction is the infested, which is ironic since it's also the least varied combat wise ("RUSH TO THE TENNO!")

Edited October 7, 2018 by Littleman88

[midtarget]

Don't compare it to destiny, destiny has a lot less enemies, so they can afford to have special AI, the more enemies on screen the dumber they are, just look at other horde games like Hyrule Warriors.

[Corvid]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

-snip-

Believe me, I'm certainly in favour of nerfing our capabilities to provide a more engaging gameplay experience. I'm just rather resigned at this point, considering the massive pushback that most nerfs receive.

[(XBOX)GmanM1]

I would much rather the enemy movement speed be faster.

It takes 5min for a butcher to run down a hall

[(PSN)Gibberish-Jack]

I dont think we need smarter AI, our powers are too powerful.  I dont think it matters how smart they were.  In fact if we made them smarter, theyd just stay at home and never even bother trying to stop us... That would be the "smart" thing to do.

 

We should be making them tougher and faster, not smarter.  Just full on pour them onto us.

 

[ArchXDiablo]

A sort of advanced AI could make even the most OP frame less mindless. 

Say, make Nullifiers rush to the player. Allow NPCs to pop health recovery. Give them a way to mildly resist status effects on demand. Have ranged enemies back off and take long shots, have melee enemies rush to you from different angles. Have melee enemies block bullets/swings as we can. 

But then we'll have a flood of "This game is a bit harder waaaaaaaaaaaaaa".