Official Necro Ability Discussion

[UberLevi]

Guys, I can't unsee this. Has anyone else noticed that Nekros has 6 fingers on his hand?

[aMsRaDau]

My opinion on changes that should be done on him:

 

1 Soul Punch: Give the Push higher aoe range and increase damage

Costs: 25 Energy

 

2  Terrify: Instead making the enemies run away (they don´t even really run away coz they instantly turn back...) you really "fear" them and make them unable to do anything for like 10~20 seconds.

Costs: 50 Energy

 

3 Desecrate: Remove/remake the skill. Actuatlly Nekros deals with the death and not with droprate of enemies^^ In my opinion it´s a useless skill coz you have released the new sentinel "Carrier".

I have thought of:

Nekros spawns a group of ghost knights (like in lord of the rings, just in black :P) who overrun everything in front of him (ofc not endless range).

Costs: 75 Energy

 

 

4 Shadows Of The Dead: Instead spawning the enemies (Grineer/Corpus/Infested) he killed before, he should spawn Ghosts of Tennos who died in battle(s). Alternatively he could spawn a kind of ghost knights with shield and sword (all got the same model) and black like the Stalker.

Costs: 100 Energy

 

That´s what i would expect when i hear that Nekros deals with the Death :P

[SnowyGreyish]

I'm about to max Nekros after 2 formas and at this point I still feel let down.

He is the HARDEST frame to obtain, (i may have bought him, but nevertheless done 20+ golem runs with people eagerly trying to get him)

He is slow, has really low survivability and the stamina regen like my grandpa in an urn. his abilities are lower mediocre at their prime.

 

1. Soul punch seems decent for a first ability, but he can't be justified by one mediocre ability out of 4 (especially ability1).

 

2. Terrify has so little area of effect it competes about space with vauban's vortex and some caught in it take little effect.

 

3. Desecrate is one weak utility ability. It doesn't add much even if cast on 10-15 corpses closely grouped.

 

 

4. Shadows of the dead... I got disappointed in a manner i haven't tried in this game before. This was supposed to be Nekros ULTIMATE trump card and being S#&$ty in most regards and hardest to obtain, it had to be a big one.

"You had ONE job Nekros, ONE JOB!!"

-.-

You have a LONG casting time where you likely get killed since the mobs have to be spawned NEAR THE ENEMY to attack them, since they dont look for enemies or semi follow you, they only snail move very slowly in their own direction, doing their normal sounds and moves if they react to an enemy and then they just start shooting at walls/floor/ceiling because an enemy is standing in that direction 4 rooms away. They were supposed to be like the real ones, then why dont they know how to shoot! They tend to run behind obstacles and start shooting at the obstacle. The shadow mobs spawned are less effective than the real ones. Then there's the double limiter, max shadows per use and cant be recast while one little shadow lives, even if he's nowhere in sight.

And the biggest nuisance of them all, the timer, often prevents you from casting all together even if its the first use in that mission (and ofcourse not referring to if a previous one was active) making sure you can't count on it, because you can't trust it will trigger.

Often the energy color texture ain't added so your team or even you have no idea who are your shadows and who are the real enemy and the actual effect, seems like the baby light edition of Nyx's Chaos. a 3rd ability is outperforming a 4th ability 4 to 1 or even 10 to 1. You have to "charge" the ability before you can get an effect, for what? chaos runs it over and the actual effect would have been instant done by a damage ability and the rest of the time (where they do pretty little damage no matter lvl, since they are fighting "themselves") you have to shoot around them to do damage to the enemies that STILL ain't going down.

[Haldos]

Unfortunately, Nekros will not be finished building until tomorrow but an idea came to me earlier.

 

I've seen Desecrate in action and heard quite a lot about it from players. Most of it being not so good. I do see a lot of potential in that you can spawn a bunch of health and energy orbs, making equilibrium an amazing mod to have but this is just an alternative idea.

 

What would you say to when casting Desecrate, instead of getting loot drops, you gain power strength to your other abilities for a limited amount of time? The numbers would have to be worked, of course, but I think gaining that kind of benefit would be more well received. To keep it from being spammed, once it's used, the chosen body is dissolved but it can be used again on another body to stack the effect.

 

Just as an example, lets say you get a 3% power strength increase for 10 seconds per body, with a cap at 15-25%. Each percent boost would be on it's own timer so you slowly lose them as time goes on without losing them all at once. I'm not sure what would be considered too much when combined with Focus increasing Soul Punch's damage as well as possibly increasing the number of potential shadows but the thought is there. The main problem here is what would leveling the mod do? My suggestion would be to increase the time limit, not the power strength. I think that would keep it from getting out of hand, but still make it useful.

I had thought about making it an AOE as a quicker method if single targeting becomes too energy draining to be useful.The reward could even be more power duration as it would benefit Terrorize and Shadows of the Dead equally, though I like Power strength more.

 

The main point would be that Nekros is directly using the dead to fuel his source of power.

There's my 2 cents.

[jackalthehyde]

Thank you for the warframe. I have my questions about the third ability, but even then I like it all. Especially the ult.

[Vaskadar]

Shadows of the Dead should have a corpse explosion effect upon expiration. They should also last longer if the player has to kill them to resurrect them.

 

Desecrate needs to be swapped with something like the Diablo 3 Witch Doctor's Grasp of the Dead.

 

Soul Punch should have a larger target radius due to the difficulty of aiming it.

 

Terrify doesn't need changing as far as I can tell.

 

I don't have the warframe myself, but this seems to be the general consensus.

[SilverBones]

Welp, I am officially sold on Desecrate. I take back all I said.

 

T3 Defense missions and T2 Mobile Defense runs were not only incredibly profitable, but vial ammo and health drops came at the right times, giving sustainability to the team as well as occasionally providing materials and mods.

 

This power is great for any defense players, no joke.

[Aggh]

I tried this and it doesn't really work.  Even though the health orbs would give you energy you still can't pick them up unless you are missing health.  So even with Equilibrium on, there was still a sea of red orbs everywhere.  I promptly took the mod back off.

Not like it matters.  In the modes where you can really abuse desecrate, streamline+flow are more than enough to let you keep spamming for the whole mission.  The handful of extra mods and resources you get are plenty worth it imo.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Aggh

[Redscyte]

The Warframe looks amazing however its skills are the dumbest I've seen. Terrify and Spadow clones seems like they just took Nyx's Chaos and split them up. Looting Ability... ok i can overlook it and may just not equipment it, everyone frame so far seems to have one ability I truely never use, but because the two abilities mentioned above this would be the third. ONLY ability I can see that has a amazing use/cost is Soul Punch, its very cheap and creates alot of utility with knock down/away multiple enemies. 

 

In short these abilities wont last if your a late game player (Im talking 60+ on Outer Terminus, Not Io at wave 25) 

 

What I would do. Make soul punch and clones connect. Since the Clones needs actual kills to even get it to work. Make soul punch's kills collect those souls that can in returned be spawned as your shadows. That way I know how many I have and of what. Idk if anyone notices but if your that guy killing all the shield drones, all you spawn are shield drones that oh btw dont shield you or your team. make fear just a small aoe that fears or even petrifies enemies in place, Simple and effected. And then you can just keep Looting ability for those people who think its soooo cool.

[RekoHunter]

I should be underwhelmed. I really should. Soulpunch is decent. but the next two are fighting to be the most useless powers ever but then his ult.... his ult.... 

 

 

That is all

[GTG3000]

Well, in the theme of necromancy, would be interesting if Mordecai (I'm calling him that until he is released) had these abilities - 

 

Ability A : Rotting Touch

 

Mordecai shoots out a projectile, that explodes in a small AoE, affecting the nearby enemies and allies alike, with added bonus of exploding again at the end of it's duration, with the next effect applied having progressively smaller lasting time and effect, along with not being applied to the host himself, to prevent exploits on bosses and alike. 

 

Upon impact, every enemy in the AoE takes damage to their armour (meaning reducing their armour). Allies, on the other hand, get a stacking armour buff for the duration.

 

This would make it a very nice buff/debuff utility, along with it's strength growing on huge crowds. Especially on the second pulse.

 

If you so wish to have a scilencey explanation, Mordecai would shoot out a small cloud of nanites, who would be able to either use their energy to reinforce a friedly nanite assemble, or to violently reuse their hosts' matter to create more of themselves.

 

Ability B : Mass Curse

 

Mordecai projects a field around him, doubling the damage to foes in it, while reducing damage their attacks deal, with a chance of their weapon exploding in their hands. Enemies affected have a high chance of attempting to flee in terror, with Mordecai appearing in a dark aura.

 

Effect moves with him, like WoF, giving an AoE damage buff similar to Molecular Prime, it's tradeoffs being lower range and need of frame to stay in the heat of things, while having the plus of medium CC and applying to every enemy who enters the range.

 

Sciensy explanation? Nanites! More nanites! ALL THE NANITES! Sprayed into the air around Mordecai to affect his enemies. And it looks scary.

 

Ability C : Bone Armour/Bone Golem

 

Actually a bone armour would better fit as ability B, but since I've seen that awesome art, no simple bone armour can do.

 

Bone golem is above it! Created by Mordecai from the corpses of his foes, golem provides an absorb shield and a melee damage buff as long as the kills go on. But hey, whatever makes the killing stop?

 

The golem is created with lower-than-IronSkin health, but has one difference - it grows with each kill. Until reaching the cap (determined by the mods level), each kill Mordecai scores adds to it's health and it's health max, with, of course, visual indication of each level. When the cap is reached, each kill just restores golem's health. Golem prevents stagger and disruption, completely absorbs all damage and explodes upon death for a mild CC to help it's wearer survive. 

 

Only tradeoff would be that you can't use ranged weapons while in it, but who needs those?

 

Sciensy explanation? Nanites, that use organic matter they come in contact with to build and reinforce the structure of golem, provided the matter stays in contact long enough.

 

Ability D : Deadman Mark

 

Mordecai emits an AoE pulse, that marks enemies, applying no effect. That is, until enemies go down. Upon death, each marked enemy respawns into an undead drone, that fights alongside tenno. I'm not too sure it would be that good to let Mordecai rise exact copies, but eh, DE's okay with it.

 

Each copy draws aggro and, if their count is above the cap, at the cost of it's health projects a small pulse of AoE fear, that makes enemies too close run. The more enemies Mordecai has under his control, the stronger and the more often the pulse is, at the price of expiring faster. (that is, rising an entire wave killed by Nova will probably make the next wave hide in spawn points, provided it lives until the timer goes out)

 

Sciensy explanation? Nanites again. Can't make a step without those guys. Specifically now, they are projected to try and hijack neural networks of the targets. A shame they can't do that while brain is alive. Bigger shame they get so clumsy an unrealistic when there's not enough power.

 

Still stand by each one of my suggestions.

[RekoHunter]

Ok. In all seriousness. How I'd fix nekros. This is going to be TLDR as I explain and explore some options. WARNING MAY CONTAIN OPINIONS

 

Soul Punch - Ehhh. We are pretty good here. It nukes, it cc's, and ragdolls a lot of bad dudes.  I would like a better visual after the primary target. A winged specter would go a long way to playing up his theme. 

 

 

Terrify - I like the concept but I think it may need a few tweaks. Some more range would be a major buff, but I'd like to see it do just a tab bit more. I think it needs a % chance to make affected enemies cower in fear. Giving it a bit more CC potential. There is also something I would like to see this do. I want it to summons a specter that latches on and causes the terror and also dealing a small dot. 

 

Desecrate - I LOVE this as a concept. Something to be done with fallen bodies is a must and I think this can be very useful, more so in survival modes. I think we need to step away from elemental damage being something that just disintegrates bodies right out. Fire needs to let them hit the ground and smolder and flame, electricity needs to have them hit the ground and twitch spasmodically, and ice just needs to have them shatter to pieces on the ground. 

 

It needs it's own loot table as well. With a little something.... special. Needs to have a chance per body to summon an angry specter that will fly off and attack an enemy. Something to make it worth the cost. Doesn't need to last long so as not to steal from it's ult.

 

Shadows of the Dead - I like it. 8 guys at full Focus feels like a good number and they last for a while. Double bonus that I can desecrate them for MORE LOOT.  

 

But really I think there needs to be some at least thematic tweaks to nekros in all aspects. Up the creepy factor. Yes. I really like the idea of specters and him manipulating the dead via bizarre techno sorcery. I think he's got a good initial direction but can use some touch up. 

[Niinjiitsu]

Survival depends on Nekros desecrate. For high lvl survival any who don't run for he exit in 5 mins.... This skill needs to stay cause I love survival and Nekros shines in this game mode. He loots much needed air packs when the air tanks dont drop to keep you going in that dead zone of air tanks. brilliant if you ask me. so good.This skill takes timing to work correctly, its meant for a multi kill of 5 to 6 people .. try using throwing stars without elements on them and then use it as they fall to the ground. I have no problems with this skill what so ever, even in 20 multi kills. This needs to stay Nekros out there who's with me?

[SethSamson]

Change  name Desecrate  to   Soul Harvest .. and ...  skill function ...  

 

when u use it  u harvest  energy , heath etc    from surrounding  bodies  in 5/10/20/30  meters area  from u ...  without aiming at the dead body directly  ... 

 

[Polak224]

Give the name descrate to touch of death.

Nekros turns into a demon and kills everyone who touches one hit.

Duration 3 - 5 seconds

Edited September 18, 2013 by Polak224

[Grailchaser]

^

Can't tell if joking, or...

[shinydunsparce]

Survival depends on Nekros desecrate. For high lvl survival any who don't run for he exit in 5 mins.... This skill needs to stay cause I love survival and Nekros shines in this game mode. He loots much needed air packs when the air tanks dont drop to keep you going in that dead zone of air tanks. brilliant if you ask me. so good.This skill takes timing to work correctly, its meant for a multi kill of 5 to 6 people .. try using throwing stars without elements on them and then use it as they fall to the ground. I have no problems with this skill what so ever, even in 20 multi kills. This needs to stay Nekros out there who's with me?

 

Nobody, nobody is with you. Keeping 1 frame's lackluster skill for 1 mission type that any other frame can do just as fine since they can kill faster than nekros is asinine. 

[Tesselect]

It's not really lackluster though.  It's only real downside is the quick despawn, but even that isn't so bad if you time things right.  It's also incredibly useful in Mobile Defense and high level defense, when those health orbs are actually helpful.

[shinydunsparce]

Welp, Scott just said he isn't replacing desecrate. 80 pages with <10% of people wanting to keep it isn't enough feedback. Anyone hoping for useful reworks on any other frames should probably give up as well.

[RekoHunter]

Welp, Scott just said he isn't replacing desecrate. 80 pages with <10% of people wanting to keep it isn't enough feedback. Anyone hoping for useful reworks on any other frames should probably give up as well.

Yeah I just watched the live stream before work and was all on board till that point. I'm mildly concerned  by their lack of willing to discuss it. They weren't even willing to mention tweaks or any changes buff or nerf to it. Sooooooooooo, I'm mildly concerned. 

 

It just.... isn't good. To many bodies vaporize thanks to the elemental damages, and then the ones that don't go away so fast... The ability is borderline useless due to it's opportunity to be used being so limited and way to over costed for what you get. The concept I like. I really really do... but so far the execution is poor and needs some tuning. The problem is it needs a lot of tuning in a lot of places that aren't just the ability it's self. MAYBE it'll be better with the damage overhaul and elementals going to procs and not on every shot, but I don't know. Right now it just feels meh at best. 

[shinydunsparce]

Yeah I just watched the live stream before work and was all on board till that point. I'm mildly concerned  by their lack of willing to discuss it. They weren't even willing to mention tweaks or any changes buff or nerf to it. Sooooooooooo, I'm mildly concerned. 

 

It just.... isn't good. To many bodies vaporize thanks to the elemental damages, and then the ones that don't go away so fast... The ability is borderline useless due to it's opportunity to be used being so limited and way to over costed for what you get. The concept I like. I really really do... but so far the execution is poor and needs some tuning. The problem is it needs a lot of tuning in a lot of places that aren't just the ability it's self. MAYBE it'll be better with the damage overhaul and elementals going to procs and not on every shot, but I don't know. Right now it just feels meh at best. 

 

I think the concept is terrible. We don't need some meta-grinding ability. We need interesting combat / control utilities.

[RekoHunter]

I think the concept is terrible. We don't need some meta-grinding ability. We need interesting combat / control utilities.

You think of it as a grind ability. Think of it as a chance for a health orb, energy, ammo, or oxygen. It's not so much a farming aid as a support ability. Any matts you get are a bonus. It's a support tool. I like it. It's scope is just so limited. 

[shinydunsparce]

You think of it as a grind ability. Think of it as a chance for a health orb, energy, ammo, or oxygen. It's not so much a farming aid as a support ability. Any matts you get are a bonus. It's a support tool. I like it. It's scope is just so limited. 

 

I should emphasize the interesting bit instead. Just getting more drops is boring.

[RekoHunter]

I should emphasize the interesting bit instead. Just getting more drops is boring.

That we can agree on. Can't we have some specters or something devour the corpses and fly the loot back to us?

[Siubijeni]

I haven't actually watched the livestream yet, but if it's as bad as everyone is saying, I may have just lost all faith in Warframe.