Official Necro Ability Discussion

[Silver_Villian]

So this does work only on enemies that get counted as you killing them?

 

I guess this frame is going to be the shotgun frame, put up Strun and Broncos with a bunch of multishot and just start spraying and praying.

 

Yes, my understanding for Nekros last ability is that you must deliver the final blow that kills the target. shotgun isn't a bad way to go especially for infected great for bring down those ancients. But I also like a sniper rifle for corpus and grineer.

[Bad_Dog69]

So what I have noticed playing Nekros is Nova (AKA kill theif) kind of screws up Nekros's ulti. If Nova primes the area then all deaths resulting effectively go to her. Makes it a little hard to form a possy of the dead.

Secondly, even with major health and shield mods he's still pretty weak.

Last but not least I ran a defense mission with him and the whole mission was unable to use his ulti as it said was already in use when it actually wasn't

 

Like most new warframes his abilities take a little time and patience to figure out how best to use them in different missions. Not all are suitable for every type of mission or scenario (IMO). But all have their use

 

He's possibly the best frame asthetically straight out of the box. So all in all I am happy with this frame. Be even happier if ya can fix the above mentioned tho :P

[Archwizard]

I've gotten some reports from some clan members who have been testing him out:

 

Shadow Shockwave Moas will knockback and stun both Tennos and enemies alike with their stomp, but only damage enemies with it.

Shadow Shield Ospreys will only grant shields to other Shadows. However, just to confuse you, Shadow Ancient Healers will heal Tenno.

Shadow Corpus Techs/Fusion Moa can spawn Ospreys. Shadow Osprey mines can be triggered by allies, but will only damage enemies. Granted, it's difficult to tell they can even be spawned because all Corpus/Grineer artillery units just fire endlessly into walls.

You cannot make Shadow bosses, even though it would only be useful on a grand total of two encounters anyway (Phobos and Golem).

You cannot clone one enemy more than once, even if you recast the ability.

 

Barring the AI problems (shooting walls when an enemy is behind it), they're actually stated to be incredibly powerful pets.

Their biggest complaint is that, in his current state, Nekros scales almost exclusively with the strength of his equipped weapons; the effectiveness of his skills are based on how many enemies he can kill without them.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Archwizard

[Relish]

So, Nekro does need something, after throwing a forma in him and playing him for ~ 4 hours total, he feels weaker than he should.

 

1. Soul punch is a great skill, its satisfying to use and rewards good play, but it has the target requirement, remove this so it can fire like fireball and increase the casting speed of the skill and it would be even better, rapid firing soul punches would just be amazing.

2. Terrify, this skill is really weak, like really really weak, since you have to kill all affected by it to cast it again, it doesn't function as a "get off my nuts" ability that it seems like it should. Make it constantly castable, or more like energy vampire where it makes an enemy into a totem, or have it summon a tombstone like structure from the ground to terrify enemies, similar to bastille but with its current fear mechanic.

3. Desecrate is good in theory, but, like people have said, bodies disappear to fast to get it off in time. Change this skill to a roar-like buff skill that heals allies when they kill enemies, the ability is more satisfying and can be a clutch. 

4. Shadows of the dead, this skill sucks, if you can get it off, your clones can deal good damage, and distract enemies for you, but they behave so erratically. This skill is broken from the visual bugs to the non-despawn glitch that happens in kappa. The timing of the skill, and the fact that your so vulnerable during its cast makes it so much more weaker than it could be. Have the clones take your damage for you, in a link style effect. have a short cast, but the clones should come out over time slightly slower, from weakest to strongest, Eg, crawlers before chargers before ancients. This would make you feel quick less squishy, since you wont be a target for all enemies.

 

All in all, Nekros doesn't have the oomph that other frames have, while certain skills(soul punch) feel great, the under performance and lackluster alternate abilities don't flow well enough to warrant taking him up over a mag, or trinity.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Relish

[DSMK2]

My main gripes with Nekros is with Terrify and Desecrate:

 

Terrify: The range of this ability is too short for it to be a ‘powerful’ one-shot ability; that and the “ability in use” limit really kills it’s usage as a crowd control tool.

 

Personally, I’d change it into an active buff that allows shrewd players to herd enemies that come within range (off a cliff, once Nekros is too close, and the enemy has no where to run), or at least repel enemies away from Nekros’s position while the buff lasts; it’ll synergize with Shadows of the Dead by allowing Nekros to single out their desired target easily.

 

Desecrate: It doesn’t appear to work (for me) and it’s tough to use; dead bodies needed for it to work disappear too quickly. It should be replaced with a ability with a more concrete functionality, not requiring a very specific target for it to work.

 

Other than those, I wish minions summoned from Shadows of the Dead have some degree of no-clip for themselves and allies; blocking only enemies, but allowing allies to pass through them. A crowd if them becomes somewhat annoying to traverse during combat.

Edited September 15, 2013 by DSMK2

[Urbanx]

2 hotfixes and no nekros buff. Sadface

[dukelego]

...Or they could just buff desecrate...(and everything else)

[Naugus]

okay, after giving desecrate a second chance, i have discovered that it is AWESOME... so long as you dont have a nova or sayrn around.

but it definitely needs a decrease in energy cost since you often need to cast it multiple times. 10-25 cost and i'd say it's definitly worth slotting.

[Naugus]

soul punch is awesome but needs faster cast. DEFINITLY love it's audio. THOOMP!!! <3

[GOWAN]

shadows of the dead ability constantly shows power in use after using it a couple of times in mission it is literally hit and miss whether this ability works or not !! and faster cast time needed for ALL !!! necro abilities ,and soul punch need larger area of effect and more damage to really make this even worth using .

 

[TheCometCE]

Falling in love with Desecrate, just a little touchy with the bodies so I can up with an idea:

 

When an enemy dies, have them leave behind a small wisp (their "Soul" if you will) that lasts for about 10 seconds that only Nekros can see. Instead of relying on a body to desecrate, you desecrate the wisps instead so there's no trouble with certain damage types preventing you from using it. (poison, cryo, shock convulsions, all make problems right now)

[G3m1n1]

shadows of the dead ability constantly shows power in use after using it a couple of times in mission it is literally hit and miss whether this ability works or not

 

 

I have been having this same issue on almost every mission.

[dukelego]

Falling in love with Desecrate, just a little touchy with the bodies so I can up with an idea:

When an enemy dies, have them leave behind a small wisp (their "Soul" if you will) that lasts for about 10 seconds that only Nekros can see. Instead of relying on a body to desecrate, you desecrate the wisps instead so there's no trouble with certain damage types preventing you from using it. (poison, cryo, shock convulsions, all make problems right now)

Or a passive aoe that prevents bodies within it that prevents them from dissolving.

And for the soul shards, it would be for his 4 as well, maybe the enemies he reanimates have a loot drop but use up the soul shards they are reanimated from

Perhaps a chain effect with the number 3 each activated shards sets off its own aoe activation effect to other shards in range

Edited September 15, 2013 by dukelego

[Arkfall]

Greeting Fellow Tennos, Lotus, and the People behind the black curtain.

 

Having mucked about with Nekros for a bit, I'd figured I'd toss my chicken in the ring, just to add to the pool.

 

Soul Punch(Or Soul Poouf! as I like to call it): Great Skill so far, 500 damage at max rank, Ragdolls (Which is funnier then one would think.), 25 energy. A Great Tool to make sure Nekros get the last hit in for #4 to work, unless Nova is around.. but If everything is dead, no need to use #4 yet then!

 

Terrify: Haven't used this much myself, Always found just killing the bad men easier.

 

Desecrate: Every time I use this skill, one of my Clan-mates suffers a small stroke (Which is half the reason I use this skill). Bodies don't last long enough (And they shouldn't, Don't want a mountain of bodies to have to shoot though.) Some times it works as a PBAoE and others, just a Cone. Energy Cost is a little to high to use efficiently for my play style (Typically more concerned with stuff still trying to kill me and less about the guys I just dealt with.)

 

Interesting Skill... Needs some work to allow for the agile game-play we have all come to love (Stamina Rage anyone?)

 

Shadows of the Dead: The Clones... send in the clones... Here comes the list!

 

1: The Clones don't seem as tough as the Originals, but that could just be my perception.

 

2: The Clones also like to try and fire though walls at all times, making them nearly useless if spawned behind cover. Oddly enough the Infested Clones are the best right now, due to the fact they HAVE to move into Melee Range... Ranged Clones do no move. Possible bug? I hope!

 

3: Not enough Clones. I would like to see 12 with Mods, and 9 without? Needs Moar Clone.

 

4: Power Strength should affect Clones, making them Stronger then the Originals. Mostly because the Clones Load in "Un-Alerted" meaning the bad guys get a chance to lay into them pretty well, before they start fighting back.

 

5: Clones not loading in to everyone's game as "Clones". I'm know this is not intended, but it is big problem, How much ammo has been spent already shooting Clones because the "Clone" effect doesn't register?

 

And that is my Top 5 with #4.

 

I would like to also point out TheCometCE's suggestion, I think it is a good change for #3, would make playing with the other blaster frames easier!

Edited September 15, 2013 by Arkfall

[dukelego]

Perhaps less clones but they last a loooooot longer and are more powerful then the originals. Oh yeah AND SMARTER

[Vashramire]

I guess I have some of the same issues as most people.

 

Soul Punch - Not too bad. Don't rely on the aoe damage for groups because it's minimal really. I like that it requires a target because it allows you to sort of snipe with it. Damage on it is about par with other "1" abilities at 500 but the best part is the force of it. Ragdolling enemies does more damage and wont kill a heavy unit but will send them flying and have to get back up. It's a cheap, single target CC with decent damage and funny ragdoll.

 

Terrify - A little short in everything we'd hoped for. The effect isn't bad just the implementation. Should be something that is persistent like Bastille or radiates from you. And you can only have 1 application up at 1 time. Only good for emergencies and even then not that good. Should be like how it was originally described as Terror Totem. Drop a totem and paralyzes enemies in range with fear and any that enter the radius run in terror. Even if you could only have 1 of those up it would still be more useful than it currently is.

 

Desecrate - I haven't ranked it up at all but for the cost and it only having a chance to give you stuff, I'd rather save my energy. Most of the time I use it I get nothing and that's if I can find bodies. For it's cost it should be aoe and work on already vanished corpses. And that would be to justify the cost. I'd rather another skill replace it honestly. Life Drain or Corpse Explosion, have hands come from the ground and root enemies, anything really.

 

Shadows of the Dead - I really don't have too much of a problem with this. Suffers from long cast animation and server/client issues(so people can't tell shadow from real thing). With duration mods it can last quite a bit and Focus gives more shadows. Sometimes enemies aren't very effective against each other though. Summoning a bunch of infected that swarm an Ancient at higher levels will barely bring it down but will keep it busy. If you want to kill it you have a ton of shadows in the way. Fares a bit better with other factions. Just don't kill a bunch of rollers before you pop it. I hate when I kill stuff that's weak and it makes me want to hold off using this. AI isn't too bad. They function pretty much as the normal unit would but sometimes units with guns will derp and try and shoot though walls and not move, though this is somewhat rare. Maybe  make them decompose when they die and leave poison clouds behind or just straight up explode and/or slow enemies they hit while alive so it's not just an expensive Chaos.

 

Overall he's a 2.5 ability wonder. Mild CC at best, average mobility, pretty average stats(armor seems to have dropped to 25 in game from 50, bug or nerf?), weak utility skill based on corpses, cheap hard single target CC, and an Ult that leaves you vulnerable. I really want to like him more than I do but he's sort of broken in some ways. The stronger and higher level the enemies you can kill, the better his Ult is. That alone allows him to be a contributing teammate since he scales with enemies there but as I'm sure others have pointed out, so can Nyx and for less energy. So far he does almost nothing that someone can't do better. Unless I'm unaware of some glaring awesome use of his abilities, he is due for either a buff or rebalance/rework to make him not a harder to get and less useful Nyx/Vauban.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Vashramire

[NoWhereManX]

If they  have to have desecrate as a looting ability

 

 

Atleats make it AoE and cheap, because it seems they still kept it apart from ALL the complaints.

I think either or would be good. AoE or make it cheap.

[dukelego]

If they make it cheap it cant be as good as people will want it

[XDeathCoreX]

It would be better to combine Terror and Desecrate and add a third ability.

When the enemy units run away, they drop stuff.

Drop rate for goods can be adjusted accordingly.

Or killing the affected ones can make them drop more stuff.

Or going near a corpse that was affected an pressing loot button yields more goods.

[SethSamson]

 

 

SOUL PUNCH: Direct X% damage that knocks the soul out of them, 5% armor debuff, stacking.

 

TERROR TOTEM: Necro deploys a totem of terror, causing X number of enemies within radius to

freeze in fear; the rest will flee.

 

SEARCH THE DEAD: Generates loot from corpses (health, energy, ammo, etc).

 

CLONE THE DEAD: Necro creates friendly nano bot clones of the last X enemies he has killed.

 

 

 

Soul Punch 

thats is good  

 

Terrify 

it is nice to scare off enemy's when u reviving someone 

some buff  to it would be nice and animation  something kinda  BOOO i scare you ...  for exp   Nekros emits ether bigger version of him self 

something like 

http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2012/09/torchlight-2-berserker.jpg

 

but NO TOTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!  NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!! TOTEM  BAD !!!!!!

 

 

Desecrate   / SEARCH THE DEAD

More loot ... hmm useless skill for me ...

 

it should be something like  Soul Tear  / RIP .. with animation like in  The Chronicles of Rid&#036;&amp;*^

http://imageshack.us/a/img818/3073/0m2t.jpg

 

or ripping  souls from surrounding enemy's  with animation  like in  Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within movie  when blue souls leaving the body and vanishes 

.. regenerating  energy, health, shield  etc  to Nekors hims self of giving buff to whole team  

 

 

Rising of the Dead 

Awesome skill  no need for change

 

but minions should be as well as in animation and model  as in stars more shadowy.... like  Ether ... objects like bullets  (especially miter)  and players  should pass though them 

 

or make them  completely  different ... like  some kinda rotted  zombies 

Edited September 15, 2013 by SethSamson

[AkunoAyanokoji]

#1 and #4 are good so far. I find #2 and #3 rather pointless. As someone stated earlier, it would be handy if you need to revive someone, but really, your team mates should be able to keep bullets distracted long enough to revive someone.

 

Looting dead bodies...bodies don't really last long enough to make use of this, and throw in its power cost at that. Also, as pointed out earlier, Nova/Saryn  killing stuff usually doesn't leave a body.

 

#4 is good, but it's bugged in the sense that it'll still say it's in use even after long you have used the skill. I got out of a kappa run earlier and had use Shadows of the Dead on the first terminal, wasn't able to use it again afterwards due to it saying it was still in use.

[NoWhereManX]

If they make it cheap it cant be as good as people will want it

It's not that good right now at 50 energy for one shot. So anything that's either cheaper or AoE would be an improvement. 

 

#2 Terrify - I don't have a problem with. I think an added graphic or something that signals to other players that you're doing it, would be great. The Torchlight picture was a great example.

[Siubijeni]

Desecrate doesn't seem to be very popular, and I can see why. The bodies don't last long enough, but more than that there are too many effects that vaporize or shatter them. While it could be switched to an effect cast on enemies BEFORE death to increase drops and many of us (including myself) would be content, I think that with Nekros, we could be so much more than content. My friends and I have come up with three potential alternatives that I think are worth sharing:
 

Death's Toll: Lasts X seconds, and notes the health of Nekros when activated. If Nekros is killed while active, he is revived with said health and full shields, and radial damage (radius X/X/X/X meters) based upon the noted health total (150%/200%/250%/300%) is applied to nearby enemies. If Nekros instead survives the full duration, he is reduced to 1% health for having failed to pay the toll.

 

Nekros does death and despair, not life. To that end, this ability does not heal you and actually requires your death. I'm thinking the duration will have to be fairly short. This is less a supportive ability than some others, but it has it's uses.

Main Contributor: LegionVangaurd

 

Transfusion: Nekros swaps health totals with target (Tenno or enemy). Health above and beyond his normal maximum can be gained but drains over time similar to energy in the appropriate nightmare mode effect. Range: X/X/X/X. Rate of Drain: X/X/X/X.

 

I realize that Transfusion could be use to troll, but similar to switch teleport, we'll just have to hope people are more mature than that. It's utility as a support ability is amazing though. You could give a tank that is suffering your health before they die, or snatch an ancient's health to give your team an easier time. More, because it depends upon your life total what uses and where/when/how you'll use it, it encourages a number of different playstyles and clever tactics. Obviously, it would not work on bosses, perhaps simply stunning them similar to Nyx's chaos.

Main Contributor: Siubijeni

 

Dessicate/Soul Prison: Nekros corrodes the flesh and soul of target enemy, applying a damage amplification, slowness, and a small amount of initial damage to the enemy. The cruelties of Dessicate are such that the ability can be recast to cause further harm to the enemies of Nekros and the Tenno.

Initial Cast on an Enemy: Duration of X seconds. Damage Amp X%, Slowness X%, Initial Damage X/X/X/X.

Recast: Increases the Damage Amp affecting the target by X/X/X/X%. Increases the Slowness affecting the target by X/X/X/X%. Reapplies initial damage. Adds X/X/X/X seconds to duration of target's Dessication.

 

Don't let the damage values fool you, Dessicate is supportive, not damage-based. The initial damage value is meant to be low (albeit increasing with the effects of the Damage Amp), with severe slowness effects and moderate damage amplification. As an ability that can be recast to increase its effects, it is meant to be an ability with which Nekros can weaken both heavy units and bosses, as the need arises.

Alternatively, the ability could be renamed something like Soul Prison, and affect a targeted area instead, with much the same if slightly reduced effects. Soul Prison could be potentially the more widely useful, while Dessicate would excel as a boss and heavy killer.

Main Contributors: Chapodeguezmen, BoomBoomHaHa

 

I have to say that I love the idea of Transfusion, and that's not just because it's my brainchild. It seems like a PERFECT support ability with a great many uses, and I'd love to see what people would do with it. Although Dessicate/Soul Prison could be harder to balance, I'm fond if it too. And Death's Toll is an interesting idea, sort of a death-counterpart of Trin's Link (which I like, but that might make it less exciting or novel to some).

Edited September 16, 2013 by Siubijeni

[Tannaros]

Overall Nekros feels somewhat lackluster to play with in my opinion.

 

However, I believe some changes to the ways skills function for him could alleviate that.

 

Soul Punch - It's a good skill that's fun to use, and visually rewarding.

 

Terrify - This is his best skill in current state in my opinion. It works as an amazing deterrent in Defense missions - though the running away of enemies is somewhat of an annoyance. I think a move speed reduction, however slight, might make this an enjoyable skill. Additionally, the energy cost seems somewhat severe. The duration is also incredibly long.

 

Desecrate - This is a very fun skill. However, the requirement of corpses drastically limits its potential and often times leads Nekros into entirely undesirable (in some cases suicidal) positioning to use it. Perhaps there should be a grace period of which the skill is usable after a corpse has disappeared. It seems odd to me this is his 3rd skill, and not the 2nd.

 

Shadows of the Dead - This is overall an enjoyable skill that is very, very awkward to use. In its current state more often than not you're better served using Terrify for the CC/Damage. However, if a rework of the skill were to happen it could come to par with the rest of the pantheon of Warframes 4th abilities.

 

Suggestion: Change Shadows of the Dead - The ability affects an area, cursing enemies within (this can also be flavored by infecting them with nanobots or whatever is desired to fit lore). Enemies are affected by X debuff (X being whatever is deemed fit, ex. slow, damage debuff, DoT, etc.) for Y seconds. Whenever an enemy dies under the effects of Shadows of the Dead the curse (nanobots) revive(s) the fallen enemy to fight alongside Nekros.

 

Now obviously this could get out of hand, thus the current duration would need to be altered. You could also add additional modifiers such as enemies slain by The Cursed (animated enemies) are raised as cursed themselves, perpetuating the whole apocalypse type idea and in turn could extend the effect of the skill. It could also have the restriction that enemies who have been obliterated (Nova, Saryn, etc.) cannot be revived as their body has been destroyed, and so on and so forth.

 

I feel this fits the lore of the game better, and would be a more effective and more fun skill to use as a whole.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Tannaros

[Phoenix86]

Desecrate is kinda meh... reasons well stated by others already, change it