Disposition Update

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

Just as the title says: Current Riven mod dispositions are in need of an update. Currently high-tier weapons like the Gram Prime, Tiberon Prime, and Pyrana Prime all have 5-4 tier dispositions. Meanwhile weapons that were formally considered good, but are now medium at best such as the Soma Prime, Broken War, and Lex Prime still retain a meager 1-2 tier disposition. I'm personally not sure when the last large-scale update on Rivens were, but it clearly seems to be from a while ago.

Of course not everyone may agree on this point, so I'm just gonna paraphrase DE here: "Rivens are designed to make all weapons usable. Weapons that are often ignored or overlooked will have a high disposition to promote their usage. Meanwhile weapons that are already popular will receive lower dispositions to prevent them from being too good." As of current this is simply not the case.

Feel free to discuss.

[lukinu_u]

The Rivens dispositions were great when they released them but now, they do insanely strong prime variant of 4-5 dispositions weapons and broke the idea of Riven.

A good change would be a reduced roll cost but a riven disposition adjustement every week/month depending on the most played weapons during the last week/month.
This would make people change their Riven more often but at reduced cost for less because the cheaper reroll, for an overall similar economy because people trade them more often, while keeping the intial idea of Riven, which was encouraging player to use less used weapons.

[BiancaRoughfin]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

Currently high-tier weapons like the Gram Prime, Tiberon Prime, and Pyrana Prime all have 5-4 tier dispositions.

Because their Dispositions are based on the Non-Primed variants. For [DE] to nerf disposition to those weapons, they will have to first Buff their non-primed counterparts.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Dispositions should be updated once, and only once to be based off of each individual weapon's base stats. Further updates can be made in the event that a weapon is buffed or nerfed, but trying to match them to popularity is meaningless without constant automated updates.

Rivens should be fully universal between ALL variants, with the mod's displayed Disposition based off of the original variant. When equipped on stronger variants, the Riven should get a stat multiplier (like RoF mods for bows) implemented as a penalty. For example, Tiberon gets 1x Riven stats, whereas Tiberon Prime only gets 0.4x the stats (numbers as examples only).

This would help stabilize Riven balance while also helping them achieve their stated goal of bringing less-used weapons into the limelight.

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

I think it'd be cool if Disposition updates didn't affect current rolls. Re-rolling an old riven would give it new disposition stats, but all the crazy god-rolls would remain the same as long as they were left alone. The plat market would go crazy. Revel in the chaos.

[Robolaser]

What would a disposition update really bring, when in 99% of the game's content:

1) weapons are already powerful enough without rivens for casual playing.

2) weapons can't compete with frames abilities for optimal performance.

Anyhow, if it's a one-time event, in terms of diversity of weapon usage we would soon be back to square one. And if it's recurring, people would likely not spend as much plat in top rivens as they do right now, which would result in a big loss of sales for DE. Another thing to consider, is that many weapons are underused because of their design, not their stats. A higher disposition would not change that.

Lastly, after reading innumerable threads about disposition changes, i suspect some people supporting the idea are less motivated by balancing considerations than they are by the satisfaction they would draw from the misfortune and disappointment of others.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Robolaser

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

9 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Because their Dispositions are based on the Non-Primed variants. For [DE] to nerf disposition to those weapons, they will have to first Buff their non-primed counterparts.

I don't think that plays a large part in Riven dispositions. As Primes are an all-round upgrade to their default counterpart, people are naturally going to switch to the Prime version of whatever they favor when they can. It doesn't make much sense to upgrade an upgrade simply because the base model is mediocre.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

9 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Dispositions should be updated once, and only once to be based off of each individual weapon's base stats. Further updates can be made in the event that a weapon is buffed or nerfed, but trying to match them to popularity is meaningless without constant automated updates.

Rivens should be fully universal between ALL variants, with the mod's displayed Disposition based off of the original variant. When equipped on stronger variants, the Riven should get a stat multiplier (like RoF mods for bows) implemented as a penalty. For example, Tiberon gets 1x Riven stats, whereas Tiberon Prime only gets 0.4x the stats (numbers as examples only).

This would help stabilize Riven balance while also helping them achieve their stated goal of bringing less-used weapons into the limelight.

That a good concept, but really goes against DE's "Fix it as we go" method. DE can't predict what the game will look like a few months from now and therefore what weapons will be favored then. Rivens are essentially designed to offset powercreep, which they cannot do if their bonuses are not updated to reflect a changed environment.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

4 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Lastly, after reading innumerable threads about disposition changes, i suspect some people supporting the idea are less motivated by balancing considerations than they are by the satisfaction they would draw from the misfortune and disappointment of others.

I'm honestly on both sides of the Riven argument. I love powering up underused weapons with a good Riven roll, but at the same time I'm annoyed all to heck that I can't make any use of my Soma Riven. That said, I got a Lanka Riven and enjoyed it since.

[MasterBurik]

4 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Anyhow, if it's a one-time event, in terms of diversity of weapon usage we would soon be back to square one. And if it's recurring, people would likely not spend as much plat in top rivens as they do right now, which would result in a big loss of sales for DE. Another thing to consider, is that many weapons are underused because of their design, not their stats. A higher disposition would not change that.

Lastly, after reading innumerable threads about disposition changes, i suspect some people supporting the idea are less motivated by balancing considerations than they are by the satisfaction they would draw from the misfortune and disappointment of others.

I would argue that a reduction in the price of "top rivens" could just as easily increase the flow of Plat, encouraging more market-based purchases. There is the potential that it could help dissuade the fear of "fake plat" that is often tied to trades with high value items. And a fluctuating disposition encourages more players to expand their Riven capacity, incentivizing DE to increase the Riven cap.

[DiabolusUrsus]

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Lastly, after reading innumerable threads about disposition changes, i suspect some people supporting the idea are less motivated by balancing considerations than they are by the satisfaction they would draw from the misfortune and disappointment of others.

😕

And it seems to me like people against it are more motivated by the plat they're making off of trading than the implications for balance. But that's just as much of a non-argument so let's stay away from that.

My favorite Riven is a Dragon Nikana +Crit Chance +Status Chance, which enables some beautiful hybrid builds. It would be severely affected by the changes I am proposing, but I can still see the need for balancing it.

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

What would a disposition update really bring, when in 99% of the game's content:

1) weapons are already powerful enough without rivens for casual playing.

Yet many are not. For example, one of my Rivens rescued my Paris from painfully early falloff. Sure, I could push it higher by default by running Banshee, but it's nicer not to need to run specific 'Frames to compensate for it.

High disposition can do weapons a lot of good when it affects the right weapons.

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

2) weapons can't compete with frames abilities for optimal performance.

So what? How many players do you see never use weapons while playing content where Rivens matter? Why do Rivens need to make weapons surpass Warframes?

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Anyhow, if it's a one-time event, in terms of diversity of weapon usage we would soon be back to square one.

Why? If it is properly adjusted so that Rivens benefit weaker weapons a lot while benefitting strong weapons less, how is that back to square one?

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

And if it's recurring, people would likely not spend as much plat in top rivens as they do right now, which would result in a big loss of sales for DE.

Conversely, the prices of Rivens would be less prohibitive to players who aren't heavily invested in the trading market and total sales of Rivens would likely increase.

6 hours ago, Robolaser said:

Another thing to consider, is that many weapons are underused because of their design, not their stats. A higher disposition would not change that.

Yet Rivens are supposed to reverse that, according to the officially stated intent. If you feel they can't make a difference, please explain why.

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 hours ago, (XB1)alchemPyro said:

That a good concept, but really goes against DE's "Fix it as we go" method. DE can't predict what the game will look like a few months from now and therefore what weapons will be favored then. Rivens are essentially designed to offset powercreep, which they cannot do if their bonuses are not updated to reflect a changed environment.

If we look past the thinly-veiled PR-speak, it should be fairly obvious that Rivens are designed to generate revenue without really giving two hoots about power creep.

DE got credit for removing the Kubrow slot machine, but they saw how profitable it was so they implemented a more indirect version (i.e., all the "gambling" is done with fake money - Kuva - but the rarity of "winning" still makes good Rivens expensive. Thus they allow people to buy "jackpots" directly).

I don't see how the release of new weapons really affects the balance of existing weapons. Rubico is still just as strong as it was before the Prime released. All DE would need to do is balance the Prime disposition correctly on (or shortly after) release. If the overall state of the game shifts significantly such that old weapons are underpowered, it's time for a set of buffs (and with them, possible disposition updates).

[Dabnician]

Low Disposition should be the result of players trying to  maximum reward for minimum effort to be honest.

What ever weapons everyone is gravitating towards dont need a riven buffs because obviously they work properly. 

They just need to update the disposition more often to be honest.

[(XBOX)Avant Solace]

7 hours ago, Dabnician said:

Low Disposition should be the result of players trying to  maximum reward for minimum effort to be honest.

What ever weapons everyone is gravitating towards dont need a riven buffs because obviously they work properly. 

They just need to update the disposition more often to be honest.

Basically, yes. Weapons that can readily kill en masse should have lower dispositions, so that they're lethality doesn't spring to "god tier". Meanwhile weapons that are mediocre no matter what traditional mods are used should have high dispositions, so that they can compete with the naturally higher tier weapons.

[Dabnician]

On 2018-10-31 at 9:57 PM, lukinu_u said:

they do insanely strong prime variant of 4-5 dispositions weapons and broke the idea of Riven.

A good change would be a reduced roll cost but a riven disposition adjustement every week/month depending on the most played weapons during the last week/month.

A week would be too often, It really should be a set date like the 1st of the month means all riven dispositions get changed, then you know you have till X date, then when people complain you can send them "Bone Thugs N Harmony - 1st of tha Month" song.

On 2018-11-01 at 3:42 AM, Robolaser said:

Lastly, after reading innumerable threads about disposition changes, i suspect some people supporting the idea are less motivated by balancing considerations than they are by the satisfaction they would draw from the misfortune and disappointment of others.

the issue is every player base has a group of players that only suggests changes that benefit themselves... most players have never taken a game design/theory course, most don't do story writing or have a basic understanding of how to formulate a plot.

how ever right now its really one big open secret that riven dispositions are in need of a more continuous update, and any player that says other wise is a liar and just want to perpetuate the imbalance so they can sell more rivens on the market.

its also no surprise that riven prices would tank if they were updated monthly, you wouldn't have any more 4.5k GOD TIER ROLLS cause next month it could turn into a mini idol tier roll.

[Sharkgoblin]

rivens were a mistake