24.0.4 Archwing changes.

[trndr]

In the past I prefered no momentum archwing, but momentum got added, and I adapted in the only place that had archwing worth running JV.

Going from a fast rollable archwing, with boost, to a skytractor isn't fun.

If k-drives were faster, and you somehow could use weapons on it, it we would be more of a competitor to archwing/skytractor.

If we're not supposed to go fast due to some lore reason, could a compromize be to take damage when you boost, but get the speed?

[Staunch84]

Rolling doesn't work, you used to be able to hold just shift + space to boost forward, now I just boost in place and have to hold forward as well.

Prior to the 'fix' it was pretty fluid, felt smooth, was a lot of fun barrel rolling around corners and giant mushrooms. Now it just feels horrible.

 

Please revert the change.

[Illumielle]

Why are you calling that a barrel roll? Just because of Star Fox?

[Plushy]

I can't believe people are complaining about one small change to archwing when it already sucked worse than anything else in the game.

[trndr]

6 minutes ago, Plushy said:

I can't believe people are complaining about one small change to archwing when it already sucked worse than anything else in the game.

Here's the thing, while the change isn't significant, the change does not improve gameplay, it won't make us use k-drive, the only thing it does is slow down the time it takes to go from "mission" A to "mission" B.

Imagine for a second, mission loading time was increased without any benefit.

[Brosef42]

16 minutes ago, Plushy said:

I can't believe people are complaining about one small change to archwing when it already sucked worse than anything else in the game.

Have you never heard the saying. It's the little things that count. Just because its small. Doesn't make it any less important to how fun the game is. 

[Guest]

till the change people whined about k-drive not being useful and saying Valis shouldn't allow arcwing... so... yeah

[Justin_Case001]

Please revert these sky archwing changes.  I honestly can't believe you did this.  Being able to fly upside down and do loops and barrel rolls was one of the most fun aspects of free roam missions for me.  Quite frankly, I am devastated by this change.  It was so much fun before.  Now it's total meh.  This is hands down the worst decision you've ever made, DE.  But you've always been great about listening to your players, and you've proven yourselves many times by doing the right thing.  I trust you to make the right decision again.  Please fix this.

The overwhelming consensus seems to be to revert the changes.  I'm seeing a couple of folks in here saying they like the new controls, and therefore the best option, it seems to me, would be to give us a toggle option.  If experimental flight is on, then we should be able to loop and roll in free roam missions as we always have.  Please give us that.  Please.

[lukaself]

14 hours ago, Amhiel said:

What do you even need barrel rolls for?

We'll never be friends

[MsChaotica]

I agree with a number of the points made so far. I use the Archwing to travel around Orb Vallis because the size of the map (plus the many mountains) makes using the K-Drive to get around cumbersome and slow. If I'm in a group trying to knock out bounties, I want to get things done expediently. K-Drives are too slow to get around the map directly from point to point.

If you want to see the K-Drives used more, speed them up, don't slow Archwings down.

K-Drives should feel like a snow board with rockets strapped to them anyway. Right now they don't feel like that at all compared to the overall speed of everything in the game.

[Amhiel]

hace 1 hora, lukaself dijo:

We'll never be friends

😂 I'm sure we can find other common ground. 

Just to be clear, what people call a barrel roll is actually and aileron roll that has absolutely no utility in air combat. A Barrel roll is a wide spiral you do to make an enemy behind you end up in front of you without losing speed. 

I'm sorry starfox fans. What archwing did in the plains was an aileron roll with no purpose other than looking cool and making movement less intuitive. 

Sorry, the Sturmovik fan in me got triggered 😅

[lukaself]

1 hour ago, Amhiel said:

😂 I'm sure we can find other common ground. 

No worries. 

Can we agree that  the current flight profile of the Archwing is completely messed up though? I'm sure the flight simulator buff in you noticed that how the Inertia is completely reversed. When doing turns, all your momentum is transferred immediately in the direction you're turning. 

For instance if you do a starboard turn then let go, you will be flying sideways towards starboard for a while. That's not how inertia works and it screws with my flying instinct.

Edit : because a short gif is better than a few hundred boring words. Just me turning right and letting go.

https://imgur.com/34YAa7H

I'm pretty sure that "invisible rubber bands" wasn't quite DE had in mind when developing the flight model 😅

Edited November 14, 2018 by lukaself

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

DE's soul purpose of making warframe was to make the archwing not fun? So sadistic 

[Amhiel]

Well gratz ya'll, you got what you wanted. Skywing is horrible again. 

[lukaself]

8 hours ago, Amhiel said:

Well gratz ya'll, you got what you wanted. Skywing is horrible again. 

I was hoping for a toggle myself... If space can have two co-existing flight models well sky should too. Oh well, I got SPEED back. (YES, I'm a Volt player and PROUD ^^)

Edited November 16, 2018 by lukaself

[moodster]

Actually sprint archwing more closely working like non sprint archwing is objectively better. All they would need to do is increase the sprint/boost speed.

[Kainosh]

On 2018-11-14 at 9:58 PM, Amhiel said:

What archwing did in the plains was an aileron roll

 Do you know that both "Barrel roll" and "Aileron roll" use ROLL steering?  And barrel roll Is doable in AW when roll is enabled. 

 

Any proper aircraft have it.    If flyer cant "roll"....well....it sux.   Both in game and in real life.  Even Helis can roll these days.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Kainosh

[Amhiel]

hace 7 minutos, Kainosh dijo:

 Do you know that both "Barrel roll" and "Aileron roll" use ROLL steering?  And barrel roll Is doable in AW whe roll is enabled. 

 

Any proper aircraft have it.    If flyer cant "roll"....well....it sux.   Both in game and in real life.  Even Helis can roll these days.  

I guess our main difference in perspective is that I don't think about archwing as an aircraft but as a battle mech instead. The ability to strafe around a target at high speed while filling it with bullets is the most valuable maneuver archwing has in space. I prefer that to doing a cool roll. Barrel rolls, scissors, cobras and such are valuable maneuvers in a dogfight but warframe is not a flight Sim. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Amhiel

[Kainosh]

2 minutes ago, Amhiel said:

battle mech

You are talking about Hovering. 

AW can hover normally if you do not boost.    Roll is disabled in Hover mode ....so i don't know what kind of issue you foken have here.  You can always boost normally without rolling too.... Just use mouse for steering and never press A or D while boosting.

Your "issues" are nonexistent.  You already have all you need for "mech" gameplay.  I need my Rolls for "jet" gameplay.  If you dont do dogfights, doesn't mean I dont do em too.

 

Fucd up momentum is still an issue tho.

 

 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

DEAR DE..

Please use Strike Vector's flight model...in fact just hire RAGE QUIT to make Archwing I think they need the work....

 

 

 

Side Note: This Game would have made a excellent Warframe like game...but they just went PVP only and it died...

Edited November 16, 2018 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Amhiel]

hace 2 horas, Kainosh dijo:

You are talking about Hovering. 

AW can hover normally if you do not boost.    Roll is disabled in Hover mode ....so i don't know what kind of issue you foken have here.  You can always boost normally without rolling too.... Just use mouse for steering and never press A or D while boosting.

Your "issues" are nonexistent.  You already have all you need for "mech" gameplay.  I need my Rolls for "jet" gameplay.  If you dont do dogfights, doesn't mean I dont do em too.

 

Fucd up momentum is still an issue tho.

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I love dogfights, in flight Sims with a good joystick.

What you say is correct, the mech movement system is there. The problem is that it's extremely slow, you very well know that moving at that speed in Warframe is a guaranteed way to get yourself blown up to smithereens. I just loved being able to move that way at boosting speed and I honestly felt it was better gameplay. With a mouse and keyboard control and attacking mostly ground targets it was way better for me. 

You appear to think I know nothing about flight just because I don't like the archwing controls in atmosphere and if I did I would surely like it but that's not the case at all. In fact I love flying, I've played flight Sims extensively and even taken flying lessons IRL. Archwing looks and works nothing like a plane and I don't see any reason why it should behave like one at all. 

In any case the changes have been reverted so you've already won the argument. 

 

Edit: momentum is atrocious, on that much we're totally on the same side. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Amhiel

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I bet the change was made to help new players control the archwing better.

[Azield]

New Player here, I love the Experimental Flight space archwing controls after having learned about them, and while I haven't gotten to use my archwing in freeroam, I would very much want to be able to do rolls, fly upside down, and have the same experimental controls in the air if we're boost/sprinting, just a new player's opinion who really enjoys the archwing. (More archwing content plz!)

[Kainosh]

2 hours ago, Amhiel said:

The problem is that it's extremely slow

Its not.  I play AW vs ground enemies in hover mode no problem. 

  We have majestic sideways dodges that are pretty fast....and if dodges are not your style, use defensive abilities.  AW have plenty. From invisibility to shield.  Amesha can even turn damage dealt to you into energy, while making you invulnerable.

Sure you get blown up if you just hover in the open without dodging rockets or using abilities.  That is your fault actually. 

 

Besides, Rolls dont make Hover slow.    If your problem is Hover mode agility, then ask for Faster Hover mode instead of trying to ruin Jet mode. 

Jet mode was always meant for "mouse centered"  flight. For shooting fast moving enemies in a chase.  Its here not to imitate "mech fighting"

[ArcKnight9202]

3 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Its not.  I play AW vs ground enemies in hover mode no problem.

I don't want to speak for the poster, but the way I interpreted it was that the hover mode was too slow for normal movement speed. Not that it was necessarily unsatisfactory for taking down bad guys.

To be able to keep this control scheme and be able to travel faster is the desire. The psuedo-simulation controls are bizarre and non-intuitive and do not match up with regular space-archwing controls.

I tried the experimental controls once and that was enough for me to keep that turned off forever. The fact that this is even a toggle suggests that there are people who enjoy different things. I don't see why the planet-side archwing should be any different.