Ivara Changes/Rework discussion before her eventual Prime

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

@DatDarkOne

I want to try this with a Magnetize build. 

I've wanted to try things like this in missions previously. The only problem was that generally the other players in the group would either be all over the place or just aggro the hell out of the enemies to the point it couldn't be set up.  Because of the way most players play in groups is the main reason I just have Quiver set to only Sleep Arrow and only use the others when needed.  

Edited January 26, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Renginus]

when i first time log in - go to market read about frames etc. ivara was my favorite from that moment 

my "problems" w her

first passive its REALY ussefull but its stupid its just like mod nothing more not even loot + enemy radar ,u cant see enemy through the walls or something special 

1

all arrows except for noise are good your idea of cypher arrow is great i lowe that but that may be so op it need some time to hack like 10 sec etc.

consoles are big part of game 

i also think she can have a more Quivers for mission types cuz noise is pretty usseles in exterimate or survival ...

2 is hard to master but i give my self a chalenge to exterminate just with navigator it was fun but energy hungry af

3 IS ONE BALANCED INVISIBILITY with shade sentinel in this game perfect example of not balance is loki

4 that bow is op but only in melee range u cant melee or single shot just w augment no combo with 2 like if you hit 2 before shoot from artemis bow you shoot 7times +/- stronger arrow that concentrate damage from spread to one

 

i love her but she can be better - not more OP just better

Edited January 26, 2019 by Renginus

[OvisCaedo]

I never use her 4th, at all, but I know it's not actually bad. Noise arrow's niche, but still has uses, and I think that's a pretty okay place for one fourth of an ability to be. Dashwires are fun.

So... I feel like if anything could use a tweak, it'd be Navigator, but I'm not sure WHAT I'd want to see changed on it. It's a cool ability. Maybe just better interaction with multishot, and a slower travel speed for extremely fast projectiles when in slowed-down mode? My favorite gun is the Lanka, and even navigated that projectile is nigh-uncontrollable from its speed.

edit: and maybe just slightly different interaction with ability stats, since if I remember right, positive duration makes navigator take longer to charge.

OH. And it'd be nice if noise arrow into sleep arrow actually worked for stealth kills and trying to do it didn't give still-unalerted enemies the inexplicable ability to become alerted in their sleep.

Edited January 26, 2019 by OvisCaedo

[Titanxo]

1 hour ago, Renginus said:

i love her but she can be better - not more OP just better

and that is my point I love her too I honestly would be just fine if they decided to leave her as is when her prime comes out my ideas are just personal preferences on what I would like to see being an Ivara player if any changes were to happen.

[Renginus]

2 hours ago, OvisCaedo said:

I never use her 4th, at all, but I know it's not actually bad. Noise arrow's niche, but still has uses, and I think that's a pretty okay place for one fourth of an ability to be. Dashwires are fun.

4 is super strong but in melee when u shot all arrows in enemy´s face thats for bow stupid even if you need to be melee range for full dmg and you cant use melee this is like qol change  

in wf is realy a lot of things but I did not see many completed

skills that work stupid or bugs ? - Momentally, I remember revenant 3 hes fog or what and does not pass through the railing

or ivara and her 1+2 why it can´t cost no energy its not damaging arrow (on 2)

skills that are not so usseful from  lvl 1 to 111

like chroma 1 when i read what it does -> 😮 but in game its usseles like Clem  😄  -_- 

[Blatantfool]

8 hours ago, MagPrime said:

@DatDarkOne

I want to try this with a Magnetize build. 

 It is alright. Noise Arrow would be sufficient in walking more enemies into the range of being pulled into Magnetize. I've had a handful of opportunities to fire my noise into or near a bubble.

8 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I've wanted to try things like this in missions previously. The only problem was that generally the other players in the group would either be all over the place or just aggro the hell out of the enemies to the point it couldn't be set up.  Because of the way most players play in groups is the main reason I just have Quiver set to only Sleep Arrow and only use the others when needed.  

 The situations in which you can take advantage of noise arrows are almost always very obvious. Magetize bubble going? Pop one onto the ground inside that. Cataclysm shrunk small enough the Grineer have stopped walking into it to be killed? Fire on inside that. Ember leaving a wonderful cluster of damaging rings of fire? Make some Noise.

 In every single situation in which there is a big cluster of damage or CC just sitting in a spot you can use Noise arrow to get enemies to rub their face on it. Herding enemies can be easily underrated but it is quite powerful. Especially considering Ivara can also share invis with allies AND dole out the sleep status on enemies all in the same kit. You are able to dictate where and how enemy attention is divided. Tons of weapons and warframe benefit from clustering enemies.

[DatDarkOne]

Hehe.  @Blatantfool   It has only been very recent that Noise Arrow has even worked on alerted enemies when the last 3 years have been considered.   

[Blatantfool]

10 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Hehe.  @Blatantfool   It has only been very recent that Noise Arrow has even worked on alerted enemies when the last 3 years have been considered.   

 True enough, though when I called the effect of herding underrated I meant in a larger sense too. Nyx's Chaos is capable of pretty effective enemy stalling plays too and people generally still feel pretty down on Nyx's kit. Classically the community has been more welcoming of hard CC like stuns or staggers than stall CC that'd hold enemies up or move them around.

[BlindStalker]

To OP,

Sorry, I'm with others about noise arrow, it doesn't need to be replaced since it has its specific uses. However, it having some functionally with alerted enemies would be a welcomed changed (so long as it retains its original functionality). I'll come back to noise arrows later in this.

On 2019-01-24 at 9:19 PM, Titanxo said:

Second, prowl needs to pickpocket from multiple targets at once

I would potentially like this, but

 

On 2019-01-24 at 9:19 PM, Titanxo said:

If DE added a flat cost per target

not at that expense. However,

 

On 2019-01-24 at 9:19 PM, Titanxo said:

increased the time overall

Maybe I'd be okay with that, depends on how much time it would be adjusted for. I have mixed feelings about changing prowl. On the one hand, I'd like to see prowl be changed or adjusted so that people genuinely take DE up on their "offer" when way back they said in hotfix Update 22.13 this comment "Ivara’s Prowl will now only steal from each enemy once total, instead of once per Ivara. Our intent is to mirror how Nekros’ Desecrate also functions, considering the recent movement of Sentient Cores to certain Sentient variants. It’s rewarding to be the warmly welcomed Nekros in an Argon Crystal run, and we hope Ivara will now be welcomed equivalently." BUT NOT, at the expense of Ivara losing her survival endurance status, of which she's known for. In short, change for prowl where it helps the former situation more and doesn't affect the latter situation, or no change for prowl at all. Or, DE could just allow Ivara to now finally pickpocket VIP targets like the silver grove specters now that she's been "fixed" since 22.13. For those types of special single VIP target farms, Ivara would be an excellent candidate to bring to and she would genuinely receive warm welcomes in those types of farms and I'd like that to see that happen. If DE's concern was that previously 4 Ivara's being able to pickpocket a silver grove specter for 4 extra times for rare mods, well hotfix 22.13 ensures that only one Ivara in the squad can do it now. Those types of farms currently only involve Hydroid and Nekros (and last time I did a silver grove farm, I had 2 Nekros in my squad and we got desecrate to proc twice resulting in an extra mod drop, even though that's not meant to be intended by DE. But that was several months ago, maybe they actually fixed that). It would be nice if Ivara could be welcomed into those types of farms since it's quite ideal for her, single VIP target with more emphasis on control of the farm in a coordinated team that isn't going to hassle her for not farming fast enough. I'd like to try and take her out to material farms if possible without people complaining, as long as she doesn't lose anything for her existing setups. She can be setup for materials farming, I just can't get a gauge of how accepting the warframe community is on this view. I have used her for toroids farming, but only in solo or in a small group of friends who know me well enough that I practically only use Ivara 95% of the time.

I do genuinely want to see changes or tweaks or updates for Ivara, even if those things are minor and as long as they don't disrupt/break her existing setups. Based off of reading this thread, I feel like we have two camps of views in all of this.

1. Ivara's kit is fine as is, don't change anything about her.

2. Change things about/or remove things from quiver (noise, dashwire specifically it seems), navigator, and prowl (since these ones seem to be the most pressing things voiced).

I personally don't know which camp I sit in myself. If anything, I'd be okay with starting small and just suggesting slight tweaks to just her base stats, and then seeing if there is room for functionality change without disrupting existing setups for her. I don't want to see her prime coming without some review/updates being made for her at the very least. Modest tweaks or changes are okay to me, not entire reworks for her.

I'm sorry that I can't come up with an actual functionality change atm, I was coming into this thread because I wanted to see the view of what my other huntress sisters felt about her kit and improvements would be desired. 

Coming back to noise arrows:

On 2019-01-26 at 11:21 AM, Blatantfool said:

Yeah, you get it. Basically, the worst part of her 4-in-1 is still great. Hell the Infested basically get bullied by the existence of Noise Arrow. Since enemies caught in range are always compelled to walk directly up to the impact point of noise arrow you can use it to force mobs of enemies to walk directly into a meat grinder AoE or into a Limbo's Catacylsm ect, ect. 

You're going to have to outline the specific mission modes where this is actually possible. I don't think this is at all remotely possible to do in something like defense because I'm pretty sure the AI is programmed to directly go for the defense objective since they're fully set on alerted state. They will ignore the noise arrow and not go in that direction at all from what I've seen. Mobile defense is sort of weird, last time I tried messing around. If you move the mobs away from complete line of sight of the console before you put the datamass in, then they'll actually stay where they are (on enemy radar it will show them as alerted, but not moving). But the game will force spawn a few enemies to attack the console so they must be dealt with. (I am uncertain if mob-def has a spawn cap like interception or has to force spawn something to attack the console. It does recycle the same enemies though from what I can tell, as it will just move them closer to you, if you decided to skip killing them on your way to the console.) Interception and exterminate, maybe different story since enemies don't spawn in alerted state and those missions have slightly different settings for enemy AI behaviour. Please outline which missions and situations where this works as I would like to see this in action.

 

And out of all my fellow huntresses in this thread: @DatDarkOne your opinion was the most I was interested in hearing from. I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted it, but from what I gather Dark, you would actually be fine if our beloved huntress didn't receive any changes upon her eventual priming? Tell me I'm wrong and I've misinterpreted your response. I'm not saying big rework changes, minor tweaks/minor buffs at the very least you might agree on? Ivara prime is still a bit far off, she's expected to come at:

On 2019-01-24 at 9:43 PM, KnossosTNC said:

And if my little prediction calender is right, Ivara Prime is due this December. Can't wait.

As KnossosTNC said. So we have time to mull over this, but I was hoping to see more responses in this thread. I precariously hate this time slot too, it's the holiday time slot which means things can change. If DE thinks some other frame will be more popular at holiday time, then Ivara will be bumped out to March of 2020. I can't gauge this, and I'm hoping she gets to retain her holiday slot, less time waiting for us.

 

Side note: I keep meaning to create threads asking for help on builds or some input from my fellow huntresses:

On 2019-01-25 at 7:13 PM, DatDarkOne said:

 

There is not one mission or mission type with the possible exception of Defection missions that I have not been able to complete by myself solo with Ivara.   

 

Please chat with me later about defense builds suited for her (and other builds), since I've been meaning to figure out what I need to update for her. Also, wouldn't cloak arrow theoretically be pretty good for defection? I'll admit I haven't tried with her on a solo defection, just asking and throwing an idea out. Sorry, I'll need to make a proper thread to prevent derailment some time later.

Edited January 29, 2019 by BlindStalker

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

I'll say it again:

This frame is about as good as you can get as far as versatility and power in terms of gameplay.  When your only superior is Octavia, you can feel pretty good about yourself.

Ask yourselves, do you really want to put your frame's well being on the line with DE and there's nothing wrong with it?

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

And out of all my fellow huntresses in this thread: @DatDarkOne your opinion was the most I was interested in hearing from. I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted it, but from what I gather Dark, you would actually be fine if our beloved huntress didn't receive any changes upon her eventual priming? Tell me I'm wrong and I've misinterpreted your response. I'm not saying big rework changes, minor tweaks/minor buffs at the very least you might agree on? Ivara prime is still a bit far off, she's expected to come at:

Here's my answer to that very question that was nicely summed up in the following quote.

55 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Ask yourselves, do you really want to put your frame's well being on the line with DE and there's nothing wrong with it?

^^This.  My fear is that DE could potentially screw her up by trying to change something that's already rock solid.  Would I like some tweaks, yes but not at the risk of everything else.

3 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Please chat with me later about defense builds suited for her (and other builds), since I've been meaning to figure out what I need to update for her. Also, wouldn't cloak arrow theoretically be pretty good for defection? I'll admit I haven't tried with her on a solo defection, just asking and throwing an idea out. Sorry, I'll need to make a proper thread to prevent derailment some time later.

I have one build that I use for mostly everything.  I call it my Tenchu Assassin build.  I've tweaked this very build over the last 3 years to what I'm showing today.  

Spoiler

Some might look at this build and think it's just for Artemis, but they would be very wrong.  This is because I understand how much power strength effects all her abilities except for Quiver.  Especially when the Infiltrate augment is there it gives her more speed.  😄 Duration is only at 95% because I've found through actual play that even in groups or solo I just don't need more than 11-13 seconds of Quiver Arrow time.  Which has my Prowl drain at .42 and still good enough for long survivals.  Again, this build is meant for use of all of her abilities.  

You probably noticed I have a build slot labeled "Experimental".  Which is just that. It's used to test different build ideas or new mods that might change my main build. 

I have build similar to this on a second Ivara but with enemy/loot radar at 100+ meters for PoE and Orb Vallis.  

4 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Also, wouldn't cloak arrow theoretically be pretty good for defection? I'll admit I haven't tried with her on a solo defection, just asking and throwing an idea out.

Yes it would.  It would require a build with more range and duration for the Cloak Arrow.  That's just an investment I don't feel worth the trouble for a mission type that I dislike because it's boring/annoying as hell.  😄  I just use either Ember Prime for those times I'm forced to do those missions. 

[BlindStalker]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Ask yourselves, do you really want to put your frame's well being on the line with DE and there's nothing wrong with it?

I did say I'm having mixed feelings and in general, I'm on the fence about making functionally different changes to her. But I also think there could be room for improvement. What is that improvement? I'm not quite sure myself. But I want to start off with what I hope to be small minor buffs that could help her and make her not a forgotten choice in future content among other players.

I would like to see buffs like these (not necessarily all of them, some of these I'm just throwing at the wall), ignoring functional changes for now since I don't want to prioritize them. Tell me what starts sounding like it's getting "OP" levels for her. And you too @DatDarkOne and well anyone else reading as well.

1. Quiver:
   • Sleep Arrow
     • Change duration from 10 seconds to 12 seconds - 2 extra seconds of sleep time to mod off of would be greatly appreciated and would give more breathing room to builds of hers that only have a marginal increase in duration or those that dip heavily into negative territory. There are times when you might need to spam sleep arrows like crazy to hard lock-down an area (or times when your team genuinely can't keep up with the pace of clearing enemies, I know from experience).  Sometimes, even in solo, when I truly need an area to be locked-down with sleep arrows, I find that sleep duration is a bit too short at times. This I would genuinely want to see buffed for her.
     • Change duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds -  I'm just throwing this out there as a 'would be nice scenario' and not really supportive about it.
     • Change sleep radius from 6m to 7m - this would help greatly because one of the major issues I find is, an enemy still keeps being missed sometimes due to not having a good idea of how wide the sleep radius is (or just blindly firing into a group and hoping for the best, because you need soft-cc now, rather than later). Slight radius increase would be nice.
   • Cloak Arrow
     • Change cloak bubble radius from 2.5m to 3.5m - Unfortunately I don't recall the amount of negative range in which you can dip under for her where cloak bubble starts becoming not really viable. But my current perspective is that, even trying to dip under 100% will expose your sentinel to enemy fire, which in turn, attracts random bullets in Ivara's direction. A pet is naturally annoying because it will have to stay near you anyways, drawing fire towards Ivara, but you can shoot a cloak arrow at a pet's location at the very least (assuming it wants to stay in one position not bugger off on its own). Base range of 2.5m was a bit tight to work with, an increase would be nice. I'm not just not sure by how much though, I only write 3.5m as a random number.
     • Only increase duration of cloak arrow, if sleep arrow duration was increased - shrugs, not sure about this one. If sleep arrows got 12 seconds of duration, then cloak could remain at its base 12 seconds or maybe bump it up to 13 or 14 seconds (since it seemed like the original intent was that cloak arrows were more important for Ivara's and teammates' survival and so their base duration was higher than sleep). Would be more of a consistency thing from original inception. (the other arrows can remain unchanged).
2. Navigator:
   • Decrease the energy drain to ?? - I don't have a specific rate on my mind because I don't know what would be considered too small of a rate. Less than the current at least, but I don't know by how much, even a minor decrease would be appreciated.
3. Prowl:
   • Increase steal range from 2/2/3/4 m to 2/3/4/5 m  - this would make farming slightly (key emphasis slightly) less dangerous (think orb vallis nullifiers, eximus with DoT etc). To be honest, it might not even register as being less dangerous, but not having to be insanely close would be desirable, even just by a little.
   • Increase steal range from 2/2/3/4 m to 4/5/6/7 m - would be nice scenario again, just throwing out there and not really supportive of it.
   • Reduce steal time from 4 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5s to 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 / 2s - a major crux of prowl is the steal time which is painfully slow and to be actually effective in groups, you practically have to hit up to 282% or higher duration. Which leaves little wiggle room in the builds, (I'm personally not a fan of completely throwing off all survivability mods). Just some form of reduction in the steal time would be appreciated. Maybe offset it instead to 2.25s instead so for example 3.75 / 3.25 / 2.75 / 2.25s.

Those kinds of buffs, to start off. At least for review by the time her prime comes around. I'm not saying all of those things (again, some I just threw at the wall), but to start off discussion about. Nothing functionally being changed and I don't want to rock the boat for her, just base stat numbers being tweaked. Thoughts? What might seem good and what might seem too broken for her?

6 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Octavia

I don't understand Octavia. I was under the impression that DE actually wanted players to have some sort of engagement when playing, not create the perfect AFK frame. I don't want this to devolve into a frame comparison thread, because it will lead to a whole, "if X frame is better than Y frame, than why should you ever use Y frame?" and would start going off in some other direction. Mastery fodder starts to become even less important as players get higher in rank since the points stop being important after a certain level. The more important thing is, what would be good incentive for people to want to get an 'Artemis' tier level, or at the very least, some tier of Ivara's prime access whenever it comes? What would be good to ensure Ivara prime has shored up enough support when she finally debuts? I'm not suggesting that Ivara go to whatever level that Octavia is on in terms of kits. But I'd like to believe slight tweaking (like the above) might help in getting people to think more about Ivara, come time her prime and to make sure that she is a choice, worthy of their time, instead of being passably inferior. Yes, I understand there are far more factors that would affect her prime access come review time and it's still a long way off (hopefully remaining in December). I want to see Ivara's prime access succeed and I will be here to support her at Artemis tier level, when she finally arrives later. 

5 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Tenchu Assassin build

Okay, I'm wondering why you have steel charge as the aura. There's more depth to this build I get that. This is your "general" build? I'd like to continue this conversation, probably in PMs so as not to derail the original main thread. I am curious about the Speed Ivara and what your Experimenting as well.

5 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I have build similar to this on a second Ivara but with enemy/loot radar at 100+ meters for PoE and Orb Vallis.  

Same with her, expect some PMs later from me (it's late). Thanks and cheers.

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by BlindStalker

[Makunogo]

maplestory fan boy here and was a bow user main. so i gotta mention. ARROW RAIN/Hurricaine* (a hurricaine ability would be kind of OP tho). i would just love to see that however replacing her 4 with that might piss people off but i still think its hella cool.

 

*Hurricaine ability is basically the same a shooting an automatic weapon, just with the arrows in this case

Edited January 30, 2019 by Makunogo

[Titanxo]

16 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Sorry, I'm with others about noise arrow, it doesn't need to be replaced since it has its specific uses.

I really regret saying useless I see people use it for a variety of uses my issue with it is I feel it is way outclassed by sleep arrow in most situations to the point I feel it is unnecessary. 

[DatDarkOne]

32 minutes ago, Titanxo said:

I really regret saying useless I see people use it for a variety of uses my issue with it is I feel it is way outclassed by sleep arrow in most situations to the point I feel it is unnecessary. 

Try this out.  Get the Orvius and use it's channeled throw attack.  Then use Noise Arrow to set all the enemies up for Orvius channeled throw.  Trust me that you will start seeing uses for noise arrow a lot more with other things after trying this.  😁 

[Titanxo]

So I forgot to mention with Navigator that I do think it needs some work done in how it interacts with certain projectiles and the properties of the projectile in flight such as 1. better control over the projectile overall including how fast it turns overall speed controls and camera work. 2.rework how navigator works with glaives auto flight mechanic. 3. rework projectiles that disappear in a short distance such as plasmor or fluctus maybe tie into increase flight duration with +range or +duration to balance it out. 

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Titanxo said:

So I forgot to mention with Navigator that I do think it needs some work done in how it interacts with certain projectiles and the properties of the projectile in flight such as 1. better control over the projectile overall including how fast it turns overall speed controls and camera work. 2.rework how navigator works with glaives auto flight mechanic. 3. rework projectiles that disappear in a short distance such as plasmor or fluctus maybe tie into increase flight duration with +range or +duration to balance it out. 

I agree to these. 

Only number 3 was done intentionally by DE as the previous interaction with Arca Plasmor and similar was extremely powerful to a game breaking level and nerfed to it's present state.  So I don't see that one being reversed at all.  

[Midas]

On 2019-01-24 at 10:19 PM, Titanxo said:

I'd like to discuss potential changes should Ivara have a rework before her prime released. She's my favorite frame, so I'm biased. But having over 700+ hours, I like to think I know a bit about this topic.

Sentry:
A fine mid-ground passive. Knowing where enemies are located is always good, especially for squishy, sneaky frames.

Quiver:
Ivara has four arrows that she can use. Each has a decent starting AOE and duration, making this my personal favorite ability to build around.

Cloak
Ivara's arrow that makes an AOE invisibility sphere.  This arrow is arguably her best support ability because it allows the players to revive allies, rescue targets, and pets in peace. It also provides cover for hacking consoles too. It gets more useful with the 100% status resist augment as well.

Sleep:
Ivara's arrow that causes enemies to fall asleep within the AOE area. This is her second best support ability, and with the right build, one can easily put a large room to sleep with 3-4 arrows. And we all know a CC'd enemy is almost as good as a dead one.

Dashwire:
Ivara's arrow that creates a dashwire between two surfaces. There are a few rooms this ability is useful. Otherwise, it's faster just to use parkour. The 100% crit damage from the augment is nice for some builds.

Noise:
Ivara's arrow that is probably the most useless, both in squads and in solo play. It makes a sound that the enemies slowly walk towards. While it doesn't fully alert enemies (only putting them in minor alert), it might as well make the enemies in full alert with how easily they can spot players in this state. Minor alert is only useful if everyone in a squad is invisible because they will ignore the sound if they see one player. Her cloak arrow and her prowl ability are more useful for getting around enemies.

Navigator:
Ivara takes control of a single projectile. This ability is fun for a niche build. Projectile speeds can make it hard to use, however. Energy use is extremely high.

Prowl:
Ivara goes invisible and can steal items out of enemy pools. While the slow movement of this ability is a drawback, the pros definitely outweigh the cons. The extra headshot damage can make any gun stronger. Her ability to walk through laser tripwires with the augment makes spy missions trivial compared to her base invisibility. While invisible, she also has a pickpocket mechanic. While it is a fun mechanic, it currently has some issues. Although, I like the fact that Ivara has to stay near an enemy to steal an item, the time it takes to steal anything is too long. Also, if another enemy walks too close while she is pick pocketing, her tether can switch to the new enemy stopping her current progress in favor of the new enemy. Although this can partially be mitigated by building for steal speed, I believe fixing the speed and the tethering of this ability is much needed and will help put her on the same playing field as Nekros or Hydroid.

Artemis Bow:
Ivara calls her exalted bow, Artemis. It has extremely high damage per use and has the ability to use her quiver arrows from it as a secondary fire. It doesn't get much better than a bow that fires either a single nuke arrow (with an augment) or up to ~15 arrows per shot. It is a great ability when built for damage even in sortie levels. Even when it isn't build for damage, it is a great weapon for pre-sortie enemies.

Overall, I think Ivara is one of the best well-rounded frames. While she has never been the best in any category in terms of what she can do, Ivara is definitely good in every category (except tanking) and every mission type available. With that in mind, I believe there are only a few changes to her noise arrow and prowl that would be welcome.

First, remove the noise arrow or change the arrow to something more useful. My suggestions would either be a silencing arrow or a cypher arrow. The silencer arrow could silence enemies and guns within the area of effect. The cypher arrow could hack terminals or doors from a distance when you shoot it. Either option makes more sense for a stealth/sneaking frame that doesn't make much noise anyway. Personally, I would like to see the cypher arrow that hacks terminals from a distance as it would mesh well with navigator. It would be fun running that in spy missions as well. Making the timer decrease at a quicker pace or having less time at the start might be a way to balance this arrow.

Second, prowl needs to pickpocket from multiple targets at once. The ability is too slow to be on par with Nekros or Hydroid. Even if Ivara is built for speed pick pocketing, she will never keep up with the other two. Also this would fully mitigate the tethering issue that she currently experiences. If DE added a flat cost per target or increased the time overall to accommodate this change, Ivara would be much more useful for farming resources.

Just as a bell and whistle change, it would be nice to have an effect to see the range of Sleep Arrows and have better speed control on her Navigator even at the cost of more energy.

Relook at that dash wire crit augment would ya...

[Midas]

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Empowered_Quiver

 

potential for 400% crit damage boost. With the status protection on top of that plus a Banshee or Rhino damage support... Ivara is easily a great cone dps with her bow, or any weapon for that matter. This is nice for survivals because enemies come to you and are not killed off screen by big aoe frames.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Vladimir

[Titanxo]

On 2019-02-05 at 3:24 AM, DatDarkOne said:

I agree to these. 

Only number 3 was done intentionally by DE as the previous interaction with Arca Plasmor and similar was extremely powerful to a game breaking level and nerfed to it's present state.  So I don't see that one being reversed at all.  

Yea I got to mess around with pre nerf navigator and arca plasmor and I understand fully the nerf. I just think that instead of making it unusable with navigator for any realistically usable time maybe adding a bonus to flight time when using navigator is all.

22 hours ago, Vladimir said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Empowered_Quiver

 

potential for 400% crit damage boost. With the status protection on top of that plus a Banshee or Rhino damage support... Ivara is easily a great cone dps with her bow, or any weapon for that matter. This is nice for survivals because enemies come to you and are not killed off screen by big aoe frames.

I honestly had no idea it scaled with power which is insane and makes more sense why my power build is as effective as it is thank you.

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, Titanxo said:

I honestly had no idea it scaled with power which is insane and makes more sense why my power build is as effective as it is thank you.

See that's the thing that most either ignore or look over when building her.  All of her powers scale from Power Strength except for Quiver.  That's 3 out of 4 powers/abilities.  So it somewhat amazes me when I see all those negative power strength Ivara builds.  😈 

Edited February 6, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Titanxo]

I do mostly do a neg build because I find quiver is the most efficient for most mission types but I love my only power build for disgusting damage 😛

[BlindStalker]

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

See that's the thing that most either ignore or look over when building her.  All of her powers scale from Power Strength except for Quiver.  That's 3 out of 4 powers/abilities.  So it somewhat amazes me when I see all those negative power strength Ivara builds.  😈 

I would say negative strength builds for Ivara are mostly meant for setting her up for a more utility based/support based, depending on context. They have purpose, they just set Ivara up in a different direction.

Example of this build that I long borrowed from VoidForged:

Spoiler

 

(Slightly adjusted for my own playstyle)

Yes, it's largely built around quiver's utility/support potential and you're right that ultimately Navigator, Prowl and Artemis Bow will suffer as a result of this. But this type of build (or off-shoots of it) is built with the intention of using Ivara's quiver more for its utility/support potential where in some situations, killing is less important in the context or not even required at all (and with likely assumption you'll kit Ivara out with capable guns/melee to deal with enemies if need be).

Some situations would be like for example:

• Orb vallis animal conservation - direct usage of sleep arrow for perfect captures, since killing is the opposite of what is desired (unless you're clearing the corpus mobs around your call point). Although the tranq rifle has been greatly improved now, even seeing the most recent hotfix buff. Kubrodons are a special case where (sleep arrows are still bugged), short answer you have quarter duration instead of half your duration. But this would still give you roughly around 5 seconds to reasonably capture one of them.
• Sleep crowd controlling - desirable in situations where you don't want to kill everybody you see and instead, just try to herd manage them as best as possible. I've used this on sortie 3 solo mobile defenses a few times in the past. Not her forte for sure, but with this build it becomes barely manageable, but possible. Gets extremely spicy if we have to contend with something like 'enemy elemental enhancement' and I kind of like doing those with this type of build because it becomes really dicey, (difficult but interesting). It can sort of be used for interception (because ultimately noise arrow will get some range), but interception build is different and heavily emphasis range instead. Largely to improve CC-ing in groups, when you find that your team can't realistically keep up and that they genuinely need 20 seconds of sleep time to recover (I've been in situations where this was needed). Depending on what melee you give to Ivara, it will ultimately give you breathing room as well.
• Simaris rep farming - this is more of advanced technique (not sure if it's still doable, but I would hope so) that VoidForged originally showed off. QoL adjustments just for being able to herd a giant crowd with generous amounts of sleep time.
• Cloak arrow support - When you want to actually support your team with long and big cloaks that will help in survivability overall in hot situations. Better if you can also land the cloak arrow on them. Even if you miss, this build will give at least some wiggle room in the bubble for them to slightly move about.

I'll admit, even I think it's funny that strength would be considered the 'dump stat' on her, even though 3 / 4 abilities are largely affected by this. But this probably makes the assumption that others have built their primaries, secondaries and melees to a considerable degree that her quiver utility becomes more important to them. It is built for high specialization of quiver, but for largely specific situations but also greatly improves the utility of quiver itself as Titanxo has stated. Note, don't be like me and accidentally forget negative strength affects empowered quiver's ability to reduce status chance on cloak arrows.

Of course, there are plenty of times where I don't want to dump stat strength on her, so this build is of course situational.

Edited February 6, 2019 by BlindStalker

[DatDarkOne]

24 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

• Simaris rep farming - this is more of advanced technique (not sure if it's still doable, but I would hope so) that VoidForged originally showed off. QoL adjustments just for being able to herd a giant crowd with generous amounts of sleep time.
•  

Not sure if you know this or not, but you can build massive amounts of Simaris rep just by stealth scanning enemies in Prowl.  They don't even need to be put asleep.  This does require solo mode and preferably no pets to alert enemies.  This is possibly the fastest method out to get Simaris rep extremely fast.  😁

24 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

so this build is of course situational.

That is the real problem I have with those types of builds the lack of flexibility.  I had previously made a build just like that for Sortie Defense.  

It more a personal philosophy of mine to be flexible/adaptable in tactics mid mission.  Hence why most of my builds for frames rarely ever are for just one ability.  😎 

Edited February 6, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[BlindStalker]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Not sure if you know this or not, but you can build massive amounts of Simaris rep just by stealth scanning enemies in Prowl.  They don't even need to be put asleep.  This does require solo mode and preferably no pets to alert enemies.  This is possibly the fastest method out to get Simaris rep extremely fast.  😁

You're correct about that. It's my preferred way to build simaris rep, casual strolls with the huntress. Apologies on how I worded that. It was poorly conveyed as I was trying to reference VoidForge's original video, where he demoed this on an exterminate at Kuva fortress. The AI behave very oddly where, if you just head to the exit, they'll all start funnelling their way to extract. Once you're done scanning, you'll want to be discrete about body disposal (so as not to alert the rest of the base), so sleeping everyone in huge groups with generous amount of time is desirable. So the build is meant to help with easier farming in that situation. Apologies for being vague on what I typed.

Sorry, it's easier if I link his video where he explains it better: (I'm not sure if it still works as I haven't done simaris scanning in a while, but casual prowl stealth scanning will always work).

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by BlindStalker