Ivara Changes/Rework discussion before her eventual Prime

[MagPrime]

5 minutes ago, DanteYoda said:

Disagree, i'm sure you love Ivara, shes great fun for spy missions but outside of that there are so many better suited warframes for all the other content.. way way better..

She does to a point make the other stealth frames obsolete though, like Loki and Ash, they both could use overhauls.

...yeah, just love me that Ivara, can't get enough.  Even named my account after her.  Play her alllll the time. 

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, DanteYoda said:

Disagree, i'm sure you love Ivara, shes great fun for spy missions but outside of that there are so many better suited warframes for all the other content.. way way better..

I can tell you right now from over 1300 hours playing just Ivara that you are wrong.  Very wrong as well as shortsighted to just your narrow view.  

There is not one mission or mission type with the possible exception of Defection missions that I have not been able to complete by myself solo with Ivara.  

You must be very new to the game to have that view of Ivara.  Either that or you really have ignored a lot of things listening to the bad advice of some others.  

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

20 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Ivara is arguably the 2nd strongest frame in the game right now.  I'm having an extremely difficult time not erupting in laughter that this is even a subject.

Strength and flexibility are separate things though. Throughout Warframe's history some of the strongest frames have been the least flexible with only 1 or 2 skills worth using. This doesn't mean that they could not be improved however. So while I understand the humor in asking for Ivara to get stronger, I still see the merit in asking for her abilities to provide more utility, which is exactly what the OP is doing.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 hour ago, DanteYoda said:

Her invis needs to be permanent like lokis so she can bullet jump.

 

Her skill where she tracks her arrow is kinda garbage though.

FYI she can bullet jump, you just cannot be sliding when you do it.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Strength and flexibility are separate things though. Throughout Warframe's history some of the strongest frames have been the least flexible with only 1 or 2 skills worth using. This doesn't mean that they could not be improved however. So while I understand the humor in asking for Ivara to get stronger, I still see the merit in asking for her abilities to provide more utility, which is exactly what the OP is doing.

She already has dedicated CC builds, Artie Bow nuke builds, Stealth survival/spy builds, and even an Eidolon hunting build.  

If that's not flexibility, I want to copy some of your loadouts.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

She already has dedicated CC builds, Artie Bow nuke builds, Stealth survival/spy builds, and even an Eidolon hunting build.  

If that's not flexibility, I want to copy some of your loadouts.

This isn't my thread but what the OP stated was fine. I'm not here to discuss what she can do, only to state that she still has room for improvement without making her stronger.

[-NightmareMoon-]

Ivara kit is almost perfect the only problem is Noise and Navigator, everything else its just great, if they tweak only those two I will be completely happy.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

This isn't my thread but what the OP stated was fine. I'm not here to discuss what she can do, only to state that she still has room for improvement without making her stronger.

Fair enough.  I was just of the opinion that she was pretty much perfect, but that's just me.

[Aldain]

Even counting Noise Arrow she still has a better toolkit skill than Vauban's Minelayer.

Navigation could be changed into an auto-homing skill, like the next shot homes in on enemies, combine this with a punch though arrow for a fun time. It would also remove the clunk factor of having to drive the shot yourself.

Noise arrow is kinda just there, two of the other three arrows are very good as-is and dashwire is useful for making vantage points if you want to snipe, so I think noise arrow remaining as a basic utility skill isn't hurting Ivara that much.

Navigation is the only awkward skill and I can see why people don't particularly care for it.

[Nicojff]

Love Ivara, I think she is my 2nd most used wf, she is the perfect frame for the ppl who likes to play alone as well (like me) self capable doing spy, assassination, survival (specially without to even sweat a drop from fear to be killed) kuva, u name it.

hace 2 horas, DanteYoda dijo:

Disagree, i'm sure you love Ivara, shes great fun for spy missions but outside of that there are so many better suited warframes for all the other content.. way way better..

She does to a point make the other stealth frames obsolete though, like Loki and Ash, they both could use overhauls.

And dude u clearly didn't used Ivara enough or u need to learn how to use her, she is one of the most powerful frames, thing is that ppl goes for the most popular ones.

I don't think she needs a rework at all, no need that every single ability she has needs to be super useful 100% of the time, that what makes her cool, she has the perfect abilities just when u need them, I can't ask for more.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

This isn't my thread but what the OP stated was fine. I'm not here to discuss what she can do, only to state that she still has room for improvement without making her stronger.

This is why I watch topics like this in regards to Ivara.  My main purpose in each of them is to make it so DE doesn't get to the point where they feel the need to nerf her.   Which giving her any kind of tweaks might just send her to OP levels leading to possible nerf.  

Currently the only things protecting her are that her OPness mostly only appears in Solo mode, and that I'm pretty sure that she's one of DE's darling frames like Octavia.  😄 

[KnossosTNC]

3 hours ago, DanteYoda said:

Disagree, i'm sure you love Ivara, shes great fun for spy missions but outside of that there are so many better suited warframes for all the other content.. way way better..

She does to a point make the other stealth frames obsolete though, like Loki and Ash, they both could use overhauls.

Just soloed Sortie Vay Hek with her today. Soloed Sortie Ambulas with her the other day. She made them both very, very easy. She's also my first choice for Mot runs. In fact, she excels at most mission types. She one-shots level 100 Corrupted Bombard with her 4.

"Only for Spy missions." Right...

As for Loki, he's for doing quick missions when I'm in a rush, such as Capture alerts and Spy missions. Ivara is better for long haul stealth.

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

She's begging for a nerf. She one shots Edilon limbs. Sure you want a rework?

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

She's begging for a nerf. She one shots Edilon limbs. Sure you want a rework?

Shhhhhh.  Hush up about that.  We don't need DE looking at her that way.  

[AltheusV]

I think ivara could do with an arrow that allows her to hack consoles remotely. that would give her a real edge in spy missions.

[Blatantfool]

16 hours ago, DanteYoda said:

Disagree, i'm sure you love Ivara, shes great fun for spy missions but outside of that there are so many better suited warframes for all the other content.. way way better..

She does to a point make the other stealth frames obsolete though, like Loki and Ash, they both could use overhauls.

 You are at least partially under the impression that all Warframes need to be balanced to be good at most of the available content. This is a misconception and not how Warframes are balanced in practice. If you make her fantastic at everything it just makes game balance worse. On some level this game is ALSO about knowing when to use a different Warframe and which Warframe is best at what. If you want to have Invis that is meant to be used for general combat or speedy gameplay you play as Loki or Ash instead.

 Ivara's sluggishness during Prowl is intentionally designed to make her suck at extended fights in her invis state. She's meant to be most comfortable when posting up and firing from a single position that gives her a good line of sight.

 Loki is your Warframe for a sneaky boy who runs and guns. Ivara is your Warfame for slipping in and out of vaults without trouble. They don't have to be good at the same things, they just have to be good at the gameplay style they represent.

 Warframes are equipment. Part of mastering the game is about knowing which one is best for what problem. You wouldn't take Ivara into ESO thinking you're gonna carry because you know she isn't the right toolset for that. That doesn't make Ivara bad, it just means she's not FOR that.

[Blatantfool]

48 minutes ago, AltheusV said:

I think ivara could do with an arrow that allows her to hack consoles remotely. that would give her a real edge in spy missions.

 With the Infiltrate mod and at worst handful of Ciphers it is already virtually impossible to lose a Spy mission as Ivara.

[MagPrime]

4 minutes ago, Blatantfool said:

-snip-

On some level this game is ALSO about knowing when to use a different Warframe and which Warframe is best at what. 

-snip-

I don't get it. 

Other...Warframes...?

[Methanoid]

Ivara i find is relegated to the likes of Vauban, she is great for defence/spy and very little else, again like vauban and many other frames tho she has 1-2 useful abilities and the rest can be ignored, i doubt any major rework would work or even be implimented, if anything did change i would bet its for her 4in1 abilities like vauban, she will probably get those tweaked from mostly pointless to still just as pointless but "changed" none the less.

[Blatantfool]

Just now, MagPrime said:

I don't get it. 

Other...Warframes...?

 It's not my job to give you the talk. Ask your parents.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Blatantfool said:

 It's not my job to give you the talk. Ask your parents.

I haven't been given new parents after the last set ran off together. 

[Blatantfool]

8 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

Ivara i find is relegated to the likes of Vauban, she is great for defence/spy and very little else, again like vauban and many other frames tho she has 1-2 useful abilities and the rest can be ignored, i doubt any major rework would work or even be implimented, if anything did change i would bet its for her 4in1 abilities like vauban, she will probably get those tweaked from mostly pointless to still just as pointless but "changed" none the less.

 Her 4-in-1 is fantastic, actually. She is significantly more powerful than a Vauban. The absolute worst part of her 1 skill is Dashwire which still has a handful of interesting uses, I use it to make puzzles easier on new guys. Sleep arrow, Noise arrow and Cloak arrow are all ridiculously good even outside of Spy missions.

 During solo interception there is a max capacity of total enemies that spawn at once. Ivara can use a max range and duration noise arrow to herd them all into a group and basically keep them in a corner where they can't interfere with her capture points. This costs virtually no energy and can be done nearly indefinitely.

 She's also a goddess of conservation hunts on Vallis due to possessing both the ability to turn invisible and the ability to use sleep arrow to knock animals out. With a little range she can consistently perfect catch three pobbers. You can basically sleepwalk to rep cap every day.

 Prowl + Infiltrate mod means you should never fail a vault in spy again. Artemis bow also does a substantial amount of damage.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Blatantfool

[Methanoid]

Just now, Blatantfool said:

 Her 4-in-1 is fantastic, actually. She is significantly more powerful than a Vauban. The absolute worst part of her 1 skill is Dashwire which still has a handful of interesting useful. Sleep arrow, Noise arrow and Cloak arrow are all ridiculously good even outside of Spy missions.

 During solo interception there is a max capacity of total enemies that spawn at once. Ivara can use a max range and duration noise arrow to herd them all into a group and basically keep them in a corner where they can't interfere with her capture points. This costs virtually no energy and can be done virtually indefinitely.

 She's also a goddess of conservation hunts on Vallis due to possessing both the ability to turn invisible and the ability to use sleep arrow to knock animals out. With a little range she can consistently perfect catch three pobbers. You can basically sleepwalk to rep cap every day.

 Prowl + Infiltrate mod means you should never fail a vault in spy again. Artemis bow also does a substantial amount of damage.

Dashwire lets her basically outperform any other frame on infested defence, she can jump up and make high tripwires on the maps like Akkad totally out of reach and just shoot everything in total safety with OP/efficient weapons, the only limit being bored to death sitting on a dashwire for eternity, pair her with the crit/dashwire syndicate mod and shes even more easymode.

[Blatantfool]

Just now, Methanoid said:

Dashwire lets her basically outperform any other frame on infested defence, she can jump up and make high tripwires on the maps like Akkad totally out of reach and just shoot everything in total safety with OP/efficient weapons, the only limit being bored to death sitting on a dashwire for eternity, pair her with the crit/dashwire syndicate mod and shes even more easymode.

Yeah, you get it. Basically, the worst part of her 4-in-1 is still great. Hell the Infested basically get bullied by the existence of Noise Arrow. Since enemies caught in range are always compelled to walk directly up to the impact point of noise arrow you can use it to force mobs of enemies to walk directly into a meat grinder AoE or into a Limbo's Catacylsm ect, ect.

[MagPrime]

38 minutes ago, Blatantfool said:

Yeah, you get it. Basically, the worst part of her 4-in-1 is still great. Hell the Infested basically get bullied by the existence of Noise Arrow. Since enemies caught in range are always compelled to walk directly up to the impact point of noise arrow you can use it to force mobs of enemies to walk directly into a meat grinder AoE or into a Limbo's Catacylsm ect, ect.

@DatDarkOne

I want to try this with a Magnetize build.